Irish Rail - a ripoff and a shambles

GeorgeCostanza

I recently paid a whopping 47 euro for a return trip from Dublin to Limerick. Aside from the shock of being charged a 2 euro transaction fee and a 1 euro credit card fee when buying online, nothing prepared me for the shock i got in Limerick station. I got an earlier train than the one specified on my ticket and paid 6 euro for the privilege, despite the fact that the carriage, indeed the entire train, was mostly empty. What a fantastic service! What a great country we live in. That's the last time I throw myself on the mercy of Irish Rail, I'll be using my car in future.

Disgraceful profiteering. :mad:

schemingbohemia

In the UK you'd have been charged a standard fare for using a train you hadn't booked on this would have been a multiple of the fare you were charged.
There are many alternative price options for a return from Limerick if you had booked off-peak fares.
How many flights have you taken where there wasn't a credit card charge?

Terrontress

schemingbohemia wrote: »

In the UK you'd have been charged a standard fare for using a train you hadn't booked on this would have been a multiple of the fare you were charged.

I don't think anybody is holding up the UK system as a model for how to do things correctly. There was an hour long documentary on Channel 4 last night complaining about UK ticketing and overcrowding.

If all it takes is to be better than the UK and the UK service becomes twice as restrictive should we all be delighted as, by doing absolutely nothing, the Irish Rail offering improves 100% when using your narrow criteria of comparing against the UK?

There are many alternative price options for a return from Limerick if you had booked off-peak fares.

How do you know he didn't need to make a peak time journey?

How many flights have you taken where there wasn't a credit card charge?

How many flights have you been on operated by Irish Rail? How many service stations or supermarkets have you been to where there have been credit card surcharges?

Why not compare like with like?

He has a problem with Irish Rail. Not anything in the UK. Not an airline. His expectations have not been met and comparing his experience with anything unrelated is not going to help.

Snow Leopard

Tickets purchased online are only valid for the train stated on the ticket. That's the way it's always been and it's not going to change anytime soon.

If you're ever unsure which train you'll need to travel on just turn up at the station 15-20 mins before departure time and purchase an open ticket from the booking office or machine at the station when you arrive. I never book online as I don't like restricting myself to a particular train.

The only times it may be worth your while booking online is if you're travelling off-peak and can avail of the discounted fares or if you're travelling on a particularly busy service at peak times (ie. Friday evening services, particularly 16:00, 17:00, 18:00 Heuston-Cork / 15:25 Heuston-Limerick can often be jammers if it's a 3-carriage service) and would like to reserve a seat.

In all fairness though, I don't think €6 is an excessive charge for changing your reservation.

Snow Leopard

His expectations have not been met

When you don't stick to the ticket rules trouble is never far away.

BenShermin

Terrontress wrote: »

I don't think anybody is holding up the UK system as a model for how to do things correctly.

I suppose nobody is holding up the whole of Western Europe as a model of how to do things correctly either then. This type of ticketing exists throughout Europe with the exception of the Benelux countries.

Terrontress wrote: »

There was an hour long documentary on Channel 4 last night complaining about UK ticketing and overcrowding.

This was a joke of a documentary, completely one sided. There very little mention of the fact that you're almost guaranteed a cheap off peak or advanced fare and a seat on UK train services outside of the rush hours. They didn't even get ticketing experts on the show to explain to people how the system actually does work, instead they just moaned and complained about it not working.

Terrontress wrote: »

If all it takes is to be better than the UK and the UK service becomes twice as restrictive should we all be delighted as, by doing absolutely nothing, the Irish Rail offering improves 100% when using your narrow criteria of comparing against the UK?

I think our ticketing system is much cheaper and fairer than the UK and Western Europe. I can get a €36 single on the 1700 Dublin to Cork at very little notice online, that's dirt cheap for a rush hour train between the two biggest centres of population in Ireland. Nowhere else in Western Europe will you get that

Terrontress wrote: »

How many flights have you been on operated by Irish Rail? How many service stations or supermarkets have you been to where there have been credit card surcharges?

Why not compare like with like?

What are we supposed to compare the credit card charge to if we can't compare it to other travel companies? Credit Card charge or not, online fares are still cheaper than the ones in the booking office. Also if the OP used a debit card they'd have only paid €2.

Terrontress wrote: »

He has a problem with Irish Rail. Not anything in the UK. Not an airline. His expectations have not been met and comparing his experience with anything unrelated is not going to help.

As said above what can we compare it with so?

The price of intercity tickets is quite possibly the only positive aspect of travel with Irish Rail. You can get really cheap online fares if you travel on the train specified at booking, if you don't prepare to pay the consequences. I don't think any other travel company would have only charged the OP €6 to be honest.

JP Liz V1

€66 one way Cork to Dublin for anyone without a credit card from ticket office - DISGRACEFUL! :mad:

Terrontress

How about comparing it to reasonable expectation of fairness?

I think that the airline industry is wrong in charging fees. i think that railways doing the same is equally wrong but two wrongs do not make a right.

While I agree that €6 is very little money, I don't think it is unreasonable for a passenger to have paid a fare, to be at a station and to expect to redeem that fare on a different train from that one booked which has the capacity to facilitate him.

Finally, regardless of the evenness of the C4 documentary, it highlights a growing discontent with railway ticketing insofar as it has been given an hour of prime tv space with a famous face fronting it. Therefore I don't think that Irish Rail's actions can be justified by saying that the same, or worse, takes place in the UK.

DWCommuter

Don't compare anything here with an airline, because no matter how crappy the airline, the planes still travel at the same speeds as competitors. Irish Rail trains travel at slower speeds when compared like with like against other European rail operators. I'd happily pay a premium for the train if it was faster than the car on inter city routes. It isn't and therefore is open to redicule. They can equate themselves all the like to airline charges, but until they can offer speed and efficiency, consistency in experience and a basic level of customer service, they are stone dead in the water.

A colleague turned up at Heuston tonight for a cork train. It was half an hour late departing. Travelled at 40mph until Kildare and the interior curtains that add to the comfort factor were in his own words, "still in Barry Kenny's washing machine" (MISSING)

Irish Rail are a shambles to the ordinary travelling public and its the ordinary travelling public that matter, not enthusiasts or those with an in depth knowledge of how railways work.

MOH

I'd have no problem with Irish Rail holding passengers to their stated terms and conditions, if they followed them themselves.

I've been trying to get a refund out of them since mid-January for failing to reserve a seat on a full train. I've send two letters, one hand delivered, and an e-mail, and haven't had the courtesy of an acknowledgement.

I'm calling my credit card comapny tomorrow and asking them to reverse the charge on the grounds I didn't get what I paid for. They're an absolute joke.

Carawaystick

BenShermin wrote: »

I think our ticketing system is much cheaper and fairer than the UK and Western Europe. I can get a €36 single on the 1700 Dublin to Cork at very little notice online, that's dirt cheap for a rush hour train between the two biggest centres of population in Ireland. Nowhere else in Western Europe will you get that

Firstly, I think you'll find Belfast is a bit bigger than Cork.

Last time I looked at fares between Dublin and Cork, IÉ were more than twice the price of Ryanair, and over 70 return. FR was 34 return all in.

Me, Mrs. Carawaystick and Little Miss Carawaystick got a train from Luxemburg to Paris recently for 58 euros all in. It's about 2 times the distance and only takes 2 hours by train, compared to Dublin to Cork.

tweedledee

Irish rail???????????,hahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaha,what a fecking joke of a company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cork to Dublin very recently,,,,,,78 yoyos,the PREMIUM high speed train travelled at 40 kph all the way.WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!we were one hour late??????never again,total pisstake.Normally fly with Ryanair,max ever 40 yoyo return and never late.

Carawaystick

Oh yeah, I'd about 50mins delay today on my train journeys, half an hour this morning and 20 mins tonight. No announcements were made tonight for the delay, despite it being a legal requirement.

Terrontress

Carawaystick wrote: »

Firstly, I think you'll find Belfast is a bit bigger than Cork.

It doesn't even matter if it is, his comparison is still nonsense.

Berlin to Munich is about 600km. Barcelona to Madrid is 650km. Paris to Marseille is 800km. Yet because they are the two biggest population centres in a Western European country he thinks there is a valid price comparison between the 800km Paris - Marseille and the 200km Dublin - Cork.

Never mind the quality of the rolling stock and tracks.

GeorgeCostanza

schemingbohemia wrote: »

In the UK you'd have been charged a standard fare for using a train you hadn't booked on this would have been a multiple of the fare you were charged.
There are many alternative price options for a return from Limerick if you had booked off-peak fares.
How many flights have you taken where there wasn't a credit card charge?

As other posters have pointed out, you have completely missed the point of original post. I'm uninterested in how they do things in the UK, for starters.

My point is, I didn't deal with a single member of staff directly. I purchased online, I picked up the ticket at the machine in the station. I would have expected the ticket to be a lot cheaper for such a short distance, particularly given the level of automation in the process.

The 6 euro surcharge to change my train ticket (ON AN EMPTY TRAIN!!) is nothing short of naked profiteering. I was aware of the existence of a surcharge to change train times, but I did not expected to be enforced on an empty train on a Sunday morning, and I certainly didn't expect it to be a totally unreasonable 6 euro!!!

Bullseye1

Did you hear the guy on the Right Hook yesterday? He wants to toll every road in the country to get drivers off the road and into trains.

schemingbohemia

How was it a rip off? You were aware of the price before you clicked the final purchase button. It might be expensive in your view that doesn't make it a rip-off.

You decided, no-one forced you, to take a different train than the one you had booked, I was using the UK as an example where you would have paid a lot more than €6 for that as I'd seen the documentary referred to.

There are a lot of cheaper journeys on the train network where someone could buy a cheap off-peak ticket and then just decide to show up (as you did) for the more expensive one, how does that make sense?

Plenty of people have posted before about this imaginery brilliant system they have in the UK, I was pointing out a couple of the problems with it, it's not like this area isn't known for going off-topic!

studiorat

GeorgeCostanza wrote: »

I recently paid a whopping 47 euro for a return trip from Dublin to Limerick. Aside from the shock of being charged a 2 euro transaction fee and a 1 euro credit card fee when buying online, nothing prepared me for the shock i got in Limerick station. I got an earlier train than the one specified on my ticket and paid 6 euro for the privilege, despite the fact that the carriage, indeed the entire train, was mostly empty. What a fantastic service! What a great country we live in. That's the last time I throw myself on the mercy of Irish Rail, I'll be using my car in future.

Disgraceful profiteering. :mad:

Did the same Dublin to Cork got charged an extra €20 last week. I rang ahead and they told me the earlier train would be fine just get right on. Complete prick of an inspector. Told me the ticket checkers in Cork would charge me €100. Which is bullsh1t tickets aren't even checked at Cork. Gentleman opposite me complained that the air conditioning wasn't working the train was stuffy, his reply was "well, no one else is complaining".

I get the Dublin to Cork every week, and I hate it. I don't mind that sometimes trains run late, stuff happens. It's because the majority of the staff are complete dicks.

Vic_08

Carawaystick wrote: »

Firstly, I think you'll find Belfast is a bit bigger than Cork.

Last time I looked at fares between Dublin and Cork, IÉ were more than twice the price of Ryanair, and over 70 return. FR was 34 return all in.

IE fares from €20 return are available, FR are sometimes very cheap but that is not true for all flights. Both operators price according to expected demand, more popular services will cost more.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Me, Mrs. Carawaystick and Little Miss Carawaystick got a train from Luxemburg to Paris recently for 58 euros all in. It's about 2 times the distance and only takes 2 hours by train, compared to Dublin to Cork.

Since when has 175 miles been twice as long as 140 miles?

Cookie_Monster

GeorgeCostanza wrote: »

I was aware of the existence of a surcharge to change train times, but I did not expected to be enforced on an empty train on a Sunday morning, and I certainly didn't expect it to be a totally unreasonable 6 euro!!!

why not? Seems a perfectly reasonable thing to expect given the stated conditions. What does the number of people on the train have to do with it?

munchkin_utd

hang on
the thread mentions irish rail being "a shambles"
Yet the OP specifically says that he/ she expected Irish rail to ignore their own terms and conditions (by waiving train change suppliment)

To me shambles means an unorganised chaotic state, more or less.
Yet the problem here is that there was no chaos, and Irish Rail as composed as hell followed their own rules which they make no attempt to hide.

As for rip off, with a couple of days notice, you can get to Dublin from Limerick for a tenner. Peak trains are full price, but heck, if they dont make their money at peak times it only costs the TAXPAYER more subsidy to keep the whole show on the road. (isnt it allready 25euro or so subsidy per intercity journey?)

Rabble Rabble

His expectations have not been met and comparing his experience with anything unrelated is not going to help.

What should we compare it to - the price of tea and butter? Obviously you compare like with like - he took the wrong train and got, by international standards, a minor fine.

Rabble Rabble

On the Bristol to London train I take - which is about £34 single offpeak, or £100+ on peak for a 1h 25m journey, the fine for taking the early or later train to the ticket is the forced purchase of anytime ticket, which costs £84.50.

This happens a lot.

Rabble Rabble

Victoria Coren on the English System

Last week, I bought a train ticket to Nottingham. First class return, £22 each way. Not bad, eh? Thanks, East Midlands Trains!

For the return leg, I'd booked a seat on the 11.02 train. But I had a late night playing poker, and decided to get the 12.02 instead. I wasn't too worried about the seat booking; I knew I'd find a space at that quiet time of day. As it turned out, I was the only person in the carriage.

Half an hour into the journey, a woman trundled down to check the tickets. She checked mine, then asked to see the seat booking. I told her the seat was booked for an earlier train but she demanded to see it anyway. Puzzled, I handed over the receipt… and she triumphantly announced that I was on the wrong train and I'd have to buy a new ticket.

You can imagine the dull debate that ensued, where I pointed out that the ticket itself only specified the date, she explained that I should know the seat-booking receipt held the real conditions, I said nobody knows that… until I gave up, thought "Life's too short" and handed over another £22.

"No, no," said the ticket lady. "It's £101".

mickydoomsux

munchkin_utd wrote: »

hang on
the thread mentions irish rail being "a shambles"
Yet the OP specifically says that he/ she expected Irish rail to ignore their own terms and conditions (by waiving train change suppliment)

To me shambles means an unorganised chaotic state, more or less.
Yet the problem here is that there was no chaos, and Irish Rail as composed as hell followed their own rules which they make no attempt to hide.

I work for IE and i encounter this attitude nearly every day. Basically people want you to stick to the rules until doing so it affects them and then they look for leniency. We try our best to use a reasonable amount of discretion but people can't have it both ways.

When you book an online ticket you are booking it for the service stated on the ticket. If you travel on another service with your prebooked ticket then you can expect to pay a surcharge, it's not a difficult concept.

foggy_lad

Vic_08 wrote: »

IE fares from €20 return are available, FR are sometimes very cheap but that is not true for all flights. Both operators price according to expected demand, more popular services will cost more.



Since when has 175 miles been twice as long as 140 miles?

It is still a lot faster than any of the knackered old mark4 sets which Irish Rail have on offer and you can set your watch by trains even in intermediate stations!

I got a 22000 Cork to Dublin yesterday due to a mark4 set breaking down in Templemore whigh buggered up all trains for several hours and instead of it being like the old mark4 trains and being late in every station except Cork it was on time along the whole journey and even made extra stops(3) in Portarlington, Kildare and Newbridge.

The mark4 fleet should be limited to non-stop intercity routes only such as dublin to cork non-stop or Dublin-Belfast non-stop as they are not capable of keeping to any timetable when used as a stopping serv

Irish Rail are trying to be like major European players when all they have is a collection of poorly alligned and laid out branch lines which are overpriced and overregulated to such an extent that customers who make genuine mistakes are penalised to such an extent they stop using the railways.

Fo Real

studiorat wrote: »

I get the Dublin to Cork every week, and I hate it. I don't mind that sometimes trains run late, stuff happens. It's because the majority of the staff are complete dicks.

I have to agree with this. The root of all problems in Irish Rail can be traced back to the staff. It's common knowledge that nepotism is rife within the organisation. The company is staffed by middle aged men who've been working there since they were 15, only because their fathers also worked on the railways. The unions protect their "job-for-life" so instead of the best and brightest fresh young graduates being hired we have incompetent, rude (and often poorly educated) old men with an inflated sense of entitlement pulling the strings of our national rail operator. They couldn't give a f*ck if the timetabling is nonsensical and inconvenient, or if the train is consistently late without explanations. Once they get their fat pay cheque at the end of the month, things'll never change.

SparkyTech

Fo Real wrote: »

I have to agree with this. The root of all problems in Irish Rail can be traced back to the staff. It's common knowledge that nepotism is rife within the organisation. The company is staffed by middle aged men who've been working there since they were 15, only because their fathers also worked on the railways. The unions protect their "job-for-life" so instead of the best and brightest fresh young graduates being hired we have incompetent, rude (and often poorly educated) old men with an inflated sense of entitlement pulling the strings of our national rail operator. They couldn't give a f*ck if the timetabling is nonsensical and inconvenient, or if the train is consistently late without explanations. Once they get their fat pay cheque at the end of the month, things'll never change.

The same can be said for many state run orgonisations, not just IE. I think its a bit of a blatent sweeping statement tbh though.

Noo

From my experience travelling around Ireland...get the bus. Its cheaper and faster.

Judgement Day

Noo wrote: »

From my experience travelling around Ireland...get the bus. Its cheaper and faster.

Yeah, you can't beat the bus for lack of toilets/catering/leg room/tables, camaraderie, driver's choice of music blaring, thrill seeking brake applications, coughing and spluttering of other passengers, body odour etc.etc. I love the vomit comet. :rolleyes:

Rabble Rabble

Irish buses are alright these days. They do take forever, though.