The Chinese are coming!

sink

donaghs wrote: »

I find their relatively recent history a tad worrying, from government created famine in the 1950s that killed millions of Chinese, to the government imposed madness that was the Cultural Revolution of the 60s.

and the current intolerance towards dissent is not encouraging either.

Obviously, since the death of Mao, things have been improving. But its not that long ago. Modern China is very much an unknown quantity and with an unpredictable future ahead of it.

The China of today looks very different from the China of the 50s, 60s and 70s even 80s. I don't think you can use a historic comparison to judge what it's likely to do today.

Nehaxak

I think this is all stemming more out of the perception America is no longer the biggest or only superpower who have the ability (and have done many a time in the recent past) to throw their weight around in the world.

Stop with the whole fox news alarmist type of crap, there's nothing to fear from China invading or otherwise and their global domination of trade worldwide could easily be stopped if the EU and US didn't allow themselves to become China's "bitches" in regards debt they now owe to China from their respective countries, including Ireland I'm sure.

The only "war" that will ever happen is that which is warmongered and started against China in the first place - which hopefully would never happen, as it will not end well for anyone on either side, or those caught in between.

I don't see why there shouldn't be another considerable superpower alongside America who are not always in agreement with them.

Anyway I love their food, I'll take a Chinese over a McD's any day !

milehip1

Judgement Day wrote: »

Is that what passes for a warship these days?

The Eithne looks like she could take her!

virmilitaris

Judgement Day wrote: »

Anybody else notice this truly alarming picture on Yahoo today? It's a Chinese warship in the Mediterranean - ostensibly there for humanitarian reasons in connection with the Libyan crisis but with the Chinese aiming to replace the US as the global military superpower....

So ? What's the point ?

You don't want the Chinese to replace the US as the worlds foremost military power ? Why ?

Judgement Day wrote: »

Anybody else notice this truly alarming picture on Yahoo today? It's a Chinese warship in the Mediterranean - ostensibly there for humanitarian reasons in connection with the Libyan crisis but with the Chinese aiming to replace the US as the global military superpower....

So ? What's the point ?

You don't want the Chinese to replace the US as the worlds foremost military power ? Why ?

The senile old duffers in the Chinese Communist party will think nothing of trying to invade Taiwan when they feel that their navy is up to a stand-off with the USA

I don't know where to begin here.

Firstly, referring to them as 'senile old duffers' shows a complete lack of understanding of, well basically anything that has happened in China in at least the last twenty years. They are anything but senile, not particularly old for politicians and not particularly communist, at least not communist in the traditional sense.

China may be run by a single party calling itself the Communist Party of China but it runs China as a (single party) Socialist Republic. I really can't understand why you would consider them to be senile, just look at what they have done to China in such a short period of time. From one of the worlds worst poorhouses to the workshop of the world in just about everything and still growing.

As for invading Taiwan, again, this sounds like some plot to some corny 1980's American TV show. It's not likely but not entirely inconceivable that Taiwan could end up peacefully reunifying with the mainland under some system akin to Hong Kong in the not too distant future. This is an extremely complicated situation which many people who comment on it don't understand.

The PRC may make claims to the ROC (Taiwan) and claim it reserves the right to use force but realistically it's much more important financially to maintain the status quo. Even if the ROC decided voluntarily to join the PRC tomorrow it would be non-direct control such as Hong Kong or Macau for the financial benefit it would provide.

Einhard

Judgement Day wrote: »

Any chance of some rational comments - without reference to my Daily Mail link - this isn't After Hours?

Any chance you'd respond to the rational comments I made in response to your irrational fears?

Another link here refers to growing tensions between India and China - more alarmist claptrap? http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=4776&Cat=13&dt=3/21/2011

There are also major tensions between India and Pakistan. Perhaps we should be worried about Indian expansionism? I fail to see how heigntened tensions between neighbouring states can support the charge of aggressive expansionism against one, but not the other.

and here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/04/us-china-defence-idUSTRE7230ZN20110304 from Reuters refers to tensions with Japan and how the announced spending rises should be taken with a grain of salt coming as they do from a regime that is unaccountable to its own citizens i.e. they may in fact be spending far more on military spending than admitted.

First off, it's in China's interests, both domestically and internationally, to publicise the growth in their military spending. Not much point beefing up one's capabilities if oen is gonna keep them hidden away.

More pertinently though, the figures are independently compiled by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, whose research mitigates against any massaging of the numbers by China or any other nation.

I have to say that you've completely failed to present a credible case for China's alleged aggressive expansionism, and why we should tremble before the yellow peril. You've mentioned China's military expenditure, which is dwarved by that of the US, and as a % of GDP is quite unremarkable, especially for a nation playing catch up militarily speaking.

You've mentioned that there are tensions between China and her neighbours, as if all other nations have perfectly harmonious relations with their neighbours.

You've mentioned a solitary Chinese ship in the Med, yet everyone from Russia to the Us to Britain have, not single vessels, but entire fleets sailing about the place.

And lastly, you've mentioned a Daily Mail article, whose author is predicting a future in which China is bellicose and expansionist, yet who couldn't anticipate French intervention in Libya a mere 11 days in advance.

I'm sorry, but in answer to your question, yes, you're being alarmist.

Judgement Day

milehip1 wrote: »

Judgement Day wrote: »

Is that what passes for a warship these days?

The Eithne looks like she could take her!

I suspect that the "Xuzhou" would probably be able to take out the entire Irish Naval service without difficulty - technical details here:

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/type054a-jiangkai-ii.asp

Liam Byrne

Even if the Chinese were coming, the Americans are already here using our airport for an illegal war.

So the phrase "kettle, pot" springs to mind.

petroltimer

Predator_ wrote: »

Alarming to who?!
It wasnt the Chinese who invaded and destroyed this country for 800 years, it was the west.
I welcome any challenge to the west.

my bloodline goes back to the early irish, so just wondering when you celts who have been oppressing us for 2500 years are going to bugger off back to where you came from.

rickyjb

Judgement Day wrote: »

Anybody else notice this truly alarming picture on Yahoo today? It's a Chinese warship in the Mediterranean - ostensibly there for humanitarian reasons in connection with the Libyan crisis but with the Chinese aiming to replace the US as the global military superpower....

The Chinese. A great bunch of lads:pac:

Look at them there aren't they great...

Judgement Day

Just in case I maybe accused of racism.

milehip1

Judgement Day wrote: »

milehip1 wrote: »

I suspect that the "Xuzhou" would probably be able to take out the entire Irish Naval service without difficulty - technical details here:

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/type054a-jiangkai-ii.asp

nice link,but my orginal toughts were correct shes a frigate not a warship.

Judgement Day

milehip1 wrote: »

Judgement Day wrote: »

nice link,but my orginal toughts were correct shes a frigate not a warship.

I think you're confusing warship with battleship. Here is a definition of a warship: http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Warship

A battleship is a different and now redundant form of naval equipment. The US was the last navy to operate battleships see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battleships_of_the_United_States_Navy

As far as I know, the last action in which a battleship took part was the bombardment of Lebanon by the USS New Jersey (pictured below) in 1983.

Manic Moran

Oooh.. Nice looking Frigate. China's starting to spend a respectable amount of money on its military. Varyag, or whatever they're calling it now, should be up and running next year.

China ramping up isn't the end of the world. They've got the money, the manpower, why shouldn't they? They're still well counter-balanced by the US Navy.

As far as I know, the last action in which a battleship took part was the bombardment of Lebanon by the USS New Jersey (pictured below) in 1983

Wisconsin and Missouri partook in the fun and games in the Persian Gulf in 1991.



In addition to lobbing cruise missiles, the battleships also effectively captured about 50 Iraqi soldiers. They saw what the God-awful huge shells (Seriously, 406mm in the world of modern land warfare where 203mm is considered top end) were doing to the artillery battery up the road, looked up, saw the spotter aircraft (a Pioneer drone), put two and two together and decided surrendering to the ship's drone would be a good idea.

NTM

milehip1

Judgement Day wrote: »

milehip1 wrote: »

I think you're confusing warship with battleship. Here is a definition of a warship: http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Warship

A battleship is a different and now redundant form of naval equipment. The US was the last navy to operate battleships see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battleships_of_the_United_States_Navy

As far as I know, the last action in which a battleship took part was the bombardment of Lebanon by the USS New Jersey (pictured below) in 1983.

I bow to your superior navel knowledge Sir, or should that be Admiral!

Manic Moran

As you can see, the Chinese have given Varyag quite the makeover. Officially it's a floating casino.



Ummmm..... Right.

NTM