The Irish Census

Brown Bomber

tony 2 tone wrote: »

I did. Brought up the fact that CACI UK Ltd did the data processing in 2002 and 2006 here. Where there any petitions then?

No idea. I was still a kid living at home then, parents would've filled out the census. Wouldn't have known who CACI were at the the time even.

The media have failed the people by not reporting on this at all as far as i can tell. Shameful.

tony 2 tone wrote: »

Is an online petition going to do any thing? Will it be shown to a government minister or CSO head?

The petition will at least show that there are some Irish people who don't view the lives and blood of a brown person as less than their own.

MinnyMinor

heard there is a new site about the census. it is a dot org, anyone know what it is?

Monty Burnz

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The media have failed the people by not reporting on this at all as far as i can tell. Shameful.

Perhaps send a mail about it with supporting evidence to a few likely people in the media who you could see running with the story? Journalists are often quite pleased when a story lands in their lap, rather than having to source stuff themselves.

joebucks

MinnyMinor wrote: »

heard there is a new site about the census. it is a dot org, anyone know what it is?

Here's one site, haven't had a chance to have a proper look at it yet, think it's mainly a petition and looking for funding so they can raise awareness about CACI

http://irishcensusscandal.org/

MinnyMinor

joebucks wrote: »

Here's one site, haven't had a chance to have a proper look at it yet, think it's mainly a petition and looking for funding so they can raise awareness about CACI

http://irishcensusscandal.org/

i am sure thats it thanks;)

Oracle

Not sure this is a conspiracy but I have a few questions about the census ......

1) If it's for statistical purposes only, why are we asked to identity ourselves and members of our household?
2) Why are we not offered ways to complete the census form and return it anonymously, ie. by post, online, etc.... ?

I learned on Liveline today that you can ask for a privacy envelope to return your census form direct. The point is though, you have to ask for the envelope, it's not offered.

tony 2 tone

They are encouraged to only issue envelopes as a "last resort". As they are paid for each form collected, it messes up the enumerator getting paid. And fecks up the counting of the area total.

Oracle

tony 2 tone wrote: »

They are encouraged to only issue envelopes as a "last resort". As they are paid for each form collected, it messes up the enumerator getting paid. And fecks up the counting of the area total.

Interesting, I'll make sure to ask for one so .....

MinnyMinor

Oracle wrote: »

Interesting, I'll make sure to ask for one so .....

have you not got form yet?

Oracle

MinnyMinor wrote: »

have you not got form yet?

Not sure I should answer that ..... what is the purpose of the question?

Does anyone have any answers to my original 2 questions above?

MinnyMinor

Oracle wrote: »

Not sure I should answer that ..... what is the purpose of the question?

just curious - are you paranoid about it? i got form and knew about the secret envelope and could have asked for one if i wanted and maybe i did, not sayig:D

Does anyone have any answers to my original 2 questions above?

not me would like the answers too

Oracle

Given the warning thats already been issued on this thread, I think its better to keep the discussion general rather than personal. For example, issues of privacy, nature of the questions, etc....

I would like answers to those questions as well.

My name is URL

Oracle wrote: »

Not sure this is a conspiracy but I have a few questions about the census ......

1) If it's for statistical purposes only, why are we asked to identity ourselves and members of our household?
2) Why are we not offered ways to complete the census form and return it anonymously, ie. by post, online, etc.... ?

I learned on Liveline today that you can ask for a privacy envelope to return your census form direct. The point is though, you have to ask for the envelope, it's not offered.

The reason the Census is not anon is because it naturally leads to less precise stats.

Also, the data will be released in the future to serve as an historical aid to anyone looking into their ancestry.

tony 2 tone

Oracle wrote: »

Not sure I should answer that ..... what is the purpose of the question?

Does anyone have any answers to my original 2 questions above?

Thought I answered the question about the envelope.

cordub

I thought it was hillarious and somewhat disgraceful tht the person that gave me my census form wasn not irish and actually had vey bad english , wouldnt you think they these jobs would be given to irish people with perfect english thank god i didnt need to ask and questions!!! Are there a certain amount of them employed delibertely foreign to cover the amount of foreigners living in ireland. so annoying!!

Oracle

My name is URL wrote: »

The reason the Census is not anon is because it naturally leads to less precise stats.

Also, the data will be released in the future to serve as an historical aid to anyone looking into their ancestry.

Interesting answers, although I have further questions about your answers;
Whats the evidence that an anonymous census is less precise?
Is the fact that the census may be used in the future as a tool for historical research, sufficient reason for it not to be anonymous? Also there are other records of identity, that can be used for such purposes, such as the electoral register, birth, death and marriage registers and church records.

Also we are told the census is for statistical use and for planning, not a historical research tool for use in the future. We are asked to submit information on that basis. I think the Data Protection Act says data should only be used for the purpose for which it was gathered.

My name is URL

cordub wrote: »

I thought it was hillarious and somewhat disgraceful tht the person that gave me my census form wasn not irish and actually had vey bad english , wouldnt you think they these jobs would be given to irish people with perfect english thank god i didnt need to ask and questions!!! Are there a certain amount of them employed delibertely foreign to cover the amount of foreigners living in ireland. so annoying!!

They should definitely require the ability to communicate well in English. If you have a real concern about it you should contact the CSO and lodge a complaint with them.

Is their grasp of the English language really what irks you though? Because your own post could be upheld as an example of poor communication.. The fact that they are foreign is moot.. they are entitled to work here.

cordub

My name is URL wrote: »

They should definitely require the ability to communicate well in English. If you have a real concern about it you should contact the CSO and lodge a complaint with them.

Is their grasp of the English language really what irks you though? Because your own post could be upheld as an example of poor communication.. The fact that they are foreign is moot.. they are entitled to work here.

Yes it was the fact that they were unable to speak english properly , I made a big mistake in my last post by typing too fast and not rereading what I wrote hence the spelling mistakes:rolleyes: and i suppose I was , am a bit irked at the fact that there are so many Irish people unable to get jobs , my problem I suppose, as they obviously filled the criteria for the job less the language barrier. I do feel that Irish people should get jobs ahead of foreigners wrong or not but thats my feeling when I see so many of our youth leaving home because of no employment here so YES am slightly bitter :mad::mad:

robtri

cordub wrote: »

Yes it was the fact that they were unable to speak english properly , I made a big mistake in my last post by typing too fast and not rereading what I wrote hence the spelling mistakes:rolleyes: and i suppose I was , am a bit irked at the fact that there are so many Irish people unable to get jobs , my problem I suppose, as they obviously filled the criteria for the job less the language barrier. I do feel that Irish people should get jobs ahead of foreigners wrong or not but thats my feeling when I see so many of our youth leaving home because of no employment here so YES am slightly bitter :mad::mad:

And your english still hasnt improved.

Oracle

Is it just me, or has this thread gone ever so slightly off topic .....

florance

Why the Internet as You Know It Must Die – By CACI Interntional.

http://americanterror.com/why-the-internet-as-you-know-it-must-die-by-caci-interntional/

IrishACORN classifies neighbourhoods in Ireland into seven groups and 33 types, based on the demographic characteristics. It provides an in-depth understanding of the different types of consumer in every part of the country, enabling marketers to pinpoint those most likely to need their services and avoid those who are not.

http://www.caci.co.uk/IrishACORN.aspx

Court Rules Abu Ghraib Torture Victims Can Sue Contractor CACI, According to Legal Team for Former Detainees

http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/court-rules-abu-ghraib-torture-victims-can-sue-contractor-caci,-according-le

CACI International Inc. (CACI - Analyst Report) recently received a multiple-award contract from the FBI for a ceiling value of $30 billion.

http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/49851/CACI+Wins+FBI+Contract

K-9

Maybe somebody was reading this thread!

Well a SF TD has raised the point:

Highland Radio » Mac Lochlainn claims census contract company has Abu Ghraib links

Posted: 29/Mar 09:28
Last Updated: 29/Mar 09:28
Donegal Deputy Padraig MacLochlainn says his is standing by his claims that a company working on Census 2011 has links to interrogators working at Abu Ghraib.
After a Europe-wide tender process – the CSO hired CACI-UK to work on specialised parts of the census.
According to Deputy MacLouchlainn, in 2004 three employees of CACI-International – who worked as interrogators at Abu Ghraib prison were named in a US military report into prisoner abuse in Iraq.
According to CACI UK – the allegation referred to was never substantiated – and subsequent investigations by both CACI International and the US government could not confirm it.
However, Deputy MacLouchlainn, Sinn Fein’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson in the Dail, stands by his claim and says the company’s services should not be employed:

There's a podcast in the link.

jakdelad

Barrington wrote: »

From the Statistics Act 1993

36.—
Any person who fails or refuses to provide any requested information in response to a direction from the Director General under section 26 or 27 of this Act pursuant to a requirement made under section 25 of this Act shall be guilty of an offence.

44.—
(1) A person guilty of an offence under any provision of this Act shall be liable—
(a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding £20,000.
(2) Where a person is convicted of an offence under section 36 of this Act he shall, if the contravention continues after conviction, be guilty of an offence on every day on which it continues and for each such offence he shall be liable—
(a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £50, or
(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding £1,000.

As such, there is to be no advocation of boycotting the Census until I have discussed this with mods/admin. I'll leave the thread open for discussion of the company BB mentioned and CT's relating to that.

Thanks

the americans rounded up 1942 japanese americian citizens and put them in pow camps not that they had commited any crime, simply their parents were born in japan
they used the census to round them up
the germans used census info as well to gather up all the jews
the cso speak softly but carry a big stick, see above quote

crazym02

I already filled out our census form, the government already know everything about us anyhow!

jakdelad

Oracle wrote: »

Interesting answers, although I have further questions about your answers;
Whats the evidence that an anonymous census is less precise?
Is the fact that the census may be used in the future as a tool for historical research, sufficient reason for it not to be anonymous? Also there are other records of identity, that can be used for such purposes, such as the electoral register, birth, death and marriage registers and church records.

Also we are told the census is for statistical use and for planning, not a historical research tool for use in the future. We are asked to submit information on that basis. I think the Data Protection Act says data should only be used for the purpose for which it was gathered.

whos checking the checkers??
[how can you come out with a statement
]Whats the evidence that an anonymous census is less precise?]
also its a bit expensive having a census so someone in years to come
can look up a great granny or lost cousin
as regards the planning ? what a joke
all the ghost housing estates?? real good planning alright
how many new schools or hospitals built in the last ten years????

CiaranMT

jakdelad wrote: »

the americans rounded up 1942 japanese americian citizens and put them in pow camps not that they had commited any crime, simply their parents were born in japan
they used the census to round them up
the germans used census info as well to gather up all the jews
the cso speak softly but carry a big stick, see above quote

We're not in the grips of a World War, lad. I don't think there's any need to build that secret hidden room behind the bookshelf just yet :P

Setanta1974

Has anyone got any more information about these privacy envelopes? How private are they? What is to stop a CACI employee from opening them and copying them?

Can I still ask for one or should I have asked for one when the census form was delivered?

tony 2 tone

Setanta1974 wrote: »

Has anyone got any more information about these privacy envelopes? How private are they? What is to stop a CACI employee from opening them and copying them?

Can I still ask for one or should I have asked for one when the census form was delivered?

Well, as private as any envelope, some one will have to open them!
Here is the blerb from the Census web site about what is done with the forms after they come back.
http://www.census.ie/How-we-do-it/Processing-the-data.104.1.aspx
http://www.census.ie/How-we-do-it/Protecting-the-data.105.1.aspx

This is from the CACI web site re:2006 Census data collection.
"CACI provided all consultancy, technical design, system implementation, training and support for the 18-month project."
So doen't sound like CACI will be handling your form, just training civil servants to do it and offering support.
From this page.
Under related case study

jakdelad

CiaranMT wrote: »

We're not in the grips of a World War, lad. I don't think there's any need to build that secret hidden room behind the bookshelf just yet :P

ah i know what your saying
i am a product of the sixties and all that went with that
forgive me but i am an awfull skeptic
very suspisous, a bad speller to boot
i dont trust any of these hoors

Oracle

jakdelad wrote: »

whos checking the checkers??
[how can you come out with a statement
]Whats the evidence that an anonymous census is less precise?]
also its a bit expensive having a census so someone in years to come
can look up a great granny or lost cousin
as regards the planning ? what a joke
all the ghost housing estates?? real good planning alright
how many new schools or hospitals built in the last ten years????

I think you may have misunderstood my post. On page 3 on this thread I asked questions:

Oracle wrote: »

Not sure this is a conspiracy but I have a few questions about the census ......

1) If it's for statistical purposes only, why are we asked to identity ourselves and members of our household?
2) Why are we not offered ways to complete the census form and return it anonymously, ie. by post, online, etc.... ?

To which My Name is URL replied:

My name is URL wrote: »

The reason the Census is not anon is because it naturally leads to less precise stats.

Also, the data will be released in the future to serve as an historical aid to anyone looking into their ancestry.

Then I asked:

Oracle wrote: »

Interesting answers, although I have further questions about your answers;
Whats the evidence that an anonymous census is less precise?
Is the fact that the census may be used in the future as a tool for historical research, sufficient reason for it not to be anonymous? Also there are other records of identity, that can be used for such purposes, such as the electoral register, birth, death and marriage registers and church records.

Also we are told the census is for statistical use and for planning, not a historical research tool for use in the future. We are asked to submit information on that basis. I think the Data Protection Act says data should only be used for the purpose for which it was gathered.