Moral Vermin Season?

prints

I'm fairly new to hunting and I wanted to get some more learned opinions than my own on this.
I enjoy hunting grey crows and mags and am glad that this benefits the local wildlife (as far as I know they have a disproportionate presence in Ireland due to the eradication of raptors in the last 2 centuries).

However, I'm not interested in inflicting a cruel death on any animal - even vermin species.

I saw a grey crow carying a branch for a nest earlier in the week so I know they will be laying soon. I wouldn't want chicks to starve slowly cos I shot their parent.

I know there is no off season for vermin officially.

Was wondering when do other posters think vermin are fair game (what months)?

meathshooter1

this time of year I give the foxes a chance because they will be nursing cubs.will only shoot a dog fox if I can clearly sex him in daylight.

Tackleberrywho

It really depends on your own morality.

And whether they are doing harm or not.
At this time of year Corvids spread disease around feed troughs

If you are a farmer you would blast them if they are near.

We feed the little Birdíns seed at home and yet I shoot corvids all year round.

Only do what you are comfortable with.
Nature is a cruel Mistress

most wild young never seen maturity

prints

@Meathshooter,
Sounds fair enough. When will you start up again?

kildare.17hmr

i think id only shoot a fox now if they were hangin around a field full of lambs, id prefer to leave them till the nice long summer evenings!

Cass

This is a pre-emptive notice to non-regular posters in the hunting forum.

While you are both free and welcome to discuss most any topic you like, this is the hunting forum for the free and safe discussion of all things hunting. Any debate on the "morality" of shooting animals in general is not allowed.

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I usually shoot all year round with no "let up" as such. I try to use common sense, and veer away from overshooting of an area. However as the farmer/landowner is the person giving me my permissions if they request that i continue to shoot at the same level to protect either livestock or crops i have no hesitations in doing so.

landkeeper

i treat grey crows magpies foxes with the same distain they show my poultry and lambs/ewes shoot away i say big a plump pregnant vixen goodoh thats about 7 foxes for one bullet in my book same goes for magpies or grey crows when you find a newly born lamb with his eyes or tongue pecked out or a ewe on her back with her guts pulled out you soon change your opinion of a 'moral' close season for the dirty stnuc believe me

Spunk84

a vixen with cubs will be going all out to feed them, they will be doubling and sometimes tripling their food sources. I have shot many foxes the last few months in the afternoon rather than lamping, which shows they have no fear to be out and about.

I myself will shoot all vermin in the gun club area including cubs. This sounds harash but give the cubs several months and they will be killing all are pheasants which we are trying to keep alive:( Why would i leave them alone to grow? and kill what we have so hard to raise over the years.

Foxes and crows are a curse on the farms around this area and i have no problem in getting rid of the problem! As for my other permissions throughout Kildare and Meath i wont shoot vermin unless i am ask by the farmer. I am just protecting our gun clubs birds.

remington 700

everyday is MORAL open season on vermin especially foxes and crows. i agree with landkeeper. it dosent bother the fox or crow that the sheep are trying to rare their young

session savage

I think a fair season for greys and maggies is Jan 2nd to Jan 1st

prints

Thanks for sharing your views

I only have a 22lr and wouldn't take a shot beyond 75yrds at a fox as i've read that it can lead to an animal suffering for days.

If I show vermin species respect in this way, I probably should show a consistant approach to it's young in a den/nest.

Having said that, I totally respect the protection of lambs/sheep/poultry as being far more important (but not an issue for me as i don't have any and am not in sheep country)

kemen

me and a friend dug out 2 foxes last week in a field which there are hoggets due to lamb in a week! im not going to have them have a handy feast!

No6

I keep poultry and have lost plenty to foxes so they have no season around here!!

Hunter21

If you ask about a morality issue with greycrows and magpies you should hand up your gun.. There is no doubt, no one should show mercy to them. There is plenty of them there to keep their population strong for ages, in these tough times a hunter/vermin controller would be doing many a farmer and animal a favour by keeping them safe and keeping a few hard earned euros in there bank.
I shoot for farmers who tell countless stories of their damage. One farmer last week had to put down a cow due to greycrows picking at its back and infecting the cow. He lost a nice few pound and is by no means well off..

Another farmer has rakes of them on his land, he doesnt ahve time to shoot them so gets us to do it for him in a clean manner, one good clean shot to make it fast and clean. Last thing we do is think "If I shoot him/her their young might starve" Noway, no mercy! they show no mercy to defenceless sheep/cows and more so why should a farmer or hunter show mercy to them. Just my two cents, dont take it personally.

bunny shooter

Hunter21 wrote: »

If you ask about a morality issue with greycrows and magpies you should hand up your gun.............

:rolleyes:

While I agree they can do a lot of damage they, like everything else in nature, have a place in the ecosystem, otherwise they'd be extinct.

What I do is control the vermin, no need to try and eradicate them all.

I'm a hunter & a sportsman, not "the exterminator " :P

Birdnuts

Vermin have to be hit hard for the coming months due to lambing and nesting season - I'm not touching the "moral" thing with a barge-pole;)

coillsaille

As someone who returned to sheep farming recently I have to say I have no sense of fair play anymore with foxes/crows.
Not only am I doing my best to shoot adult greycrows I also plan on visiting all their nests on the farm, once eggs are laid, with a long pole. That way don't have to worry about starving young crows.

landkeeper

sorry bunny i don't agree i see no ecological value in having grey crows and magpies on the planet, all they do is cause suffering and misery to everything that crosses their path they have no mercy or morals
i suppose in the greater scheme of things they were designed to clean up dead annimals trouble is they are more than happy to speed up the process or even initiate it if given half a chance
if i could with a flick of a switch turn on genocide for both species i would without a seconds hesitation or glimmer of guilt

lb1981

I have seen grey crows caused death to calves and sheep ,actually inflicting a pain full death, i have no problem wiping them out ,magpies aswell.

bunny shooter

landkeeper wrote: »

sorry bunny

No need to be You're opinion is as valid as mine I reckon

landkeeper wrote: »

i don't agree i see no ecological value in having grey crows and magpies on the planet, all they do is cause suffering and misery to everything that crosses their path

I agree they cause suffering but if their numbers are controlled, by humans as they have few or no natural predators, then there will be a smaller population whicj will result in less demand for food so they might revert to scavanging dead animals, birds etc, which I reckon is their place in the ecosystem.

landkeeper wrote: »

they have no mercy or morals

Agreed, but what animal has? The strongest survive. I read once something along the lines of ............... there is nothing so cruel in nature as nature itself...........

landkeeper wrote: »

i suppose in the greater scheme of things they were designed to clean up dead annimals trouble is they are more than happy to speed up the process or even initiate it if given half a chance

Agreed, I reckon they are our version of the African vulture and as I said above I reckon if their population levels are reduced then the demand for food will reduce proportionally which may reduce their need to attack livestock.

landkeeper wrote: »

if i could with a flick of a switch turn on genocide for both species i would without a seconds hesitation or glimmer of guilt

I think wishing any species to be wiped out is not a good thing.

I give all vermin a bad time BUT I ease off during this time of the year to allow them to breed unless a landowner is having problems.

sikastag

Ah, if I come across charlie and co. where they pose a threat, they come to a quick end. If he doesnt, I'll show them some quarter.

thekevin4540

bunny shooter wrote: »

:rolleyes:

While I agree they can do a lot of damage they, like everything else in nature, have a place in the ecosystem, otherwise they'd be extinct.

magpies are not native to ireland

Cass

Without sounding like a dick, thats irrelevant.

Alot of species are not native to Ireland, but the fact of the matter is they are here, and need to be dealt with. The grey squirrel is not native, but i have no hesitation shooting them whenever and wherever i get the opportunity.

From all the stories that are posted here you would think that we are shooting more than the population can take. Not true. With all the licensed firearm holders in the country it would not be a lng shot (excuse the pun" to think that less than half take an active part innregular shooting and less again that do it to a meaningful level.

I personally do not get out as often as i would like, and twice this year i have gotten phone calls asking will i be out this week or soon, by farmers, etc. I dislike this as it would seem as though i am not holding up "my end" of the unwritten deal where i control pests, vermin, etc for them and they give me my permissions year in, year out.

There is no need to "control" or limit your shooting. You could shoot 3,4 or even 5 days a week for a few months then through work, family, etc you find you cannot go out for weeks or even months on end. We are not shooting any more excessively than years ago just with the introdcution of boards.ie and others networking sites we have a much clearer picture of how many are actually shooting country wide.

Just my take on the matter anyway.:)

bunny shooter

thekevin4540 wrote: »

magpies are not native to ireland

Neither are bunnies, Sika & Fallow deer, grey squirrels and God knows how many other species, including us, if you want to go down that road

cavan shooter

Foxes will be shot only by request from Paddys day till September. In a week or two I will start shooting greys and magpie nests, then the larsen comes out and I'll catch more. Thats how I do it, 41 foxes this year, 34 Greys and 28 magpies to date and 150 poults coming first week in June

Hunter21

Some farmers are fair weird.
Pass I place very often and I swear on my two grandfathers graves there is about 50 greys hanging around there. I took it of my own initiative to call in! It was like a terrorists AGM :mad: I asked him would he give me permission, he was saying he would but not to go too mad shooting them even though he said they were doing him damage. I said I have to get rid of as many as I can cos other farmers nearby always ring me asking to source and kill all greys and magpies as they are doing damage to their stock.
What options have I available to me to rid of them quitely as he said "not to go too mad with the shotgun"?

Dusty87

thekevin4540 wrote: »

magpies are not native to ireland

they are. They arrived naturally. With no human help.

pugw

Have stopped proper lamping since the start of march and only shoot foxes now where they are causing lambing problems! Will start on mags and greys now and any nests i come across! Also I find it a great time for mink between now and may when they are getting nests ready!

MacraPat

On the subject of foxes and seasons.
In some areas of the states "furbearers" such as foxes, coyotes etc. have a season in which they can be trapped or snared for their pelts. Outside of this season nuisance coyotes can be trapped with notice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5HHrCG9pg

johngalway

Hunter21 wrote: »

What options have I available to me to rid of them quitely as he said "not to go too mad with the shotgun"?

Larsen traps or ladder trap. Silent, effective, works 24/7.

Best way of catching your first bird would be to use a Ladder trap. If you have a shot fox, great, split open it's belly and into the trap with it. If not, ask around, find out what the greycrows are eating and use that.

From the Ladder trap you could then populate Larsen traps around the area.

The secret to Larsen traps is get other people (as long as they're responsible) to feed the birds, the money can mount up feeding them!

Hunter21

johngalway wrote: »

Larsen traps or ladder trap. Silent, effective, works 24/7.

Best way of catching your first bird would be to use a Ladder trap. If you have a shot fox, great, split open it's belly and into the trap with it. If not, ask around, find out what the greycrows are eating and use that.

From the Ladder trap you could then populate Larsen traps around the area.

The secret to Larsen traps is get other people (as long as they're responsible) to feed the birds, the money can mount up feeding them!

Just a few questions on the ladder trap. Going off topic I know
Does the top need to be sloped?
And what gap would you put between the ladders?

johngalway

Hunter21 wrote: »

Just a few questions on the ladder trap. Going off topic I know
Does the top need to be sloped?
And what gap would you put between the ladders?

Yes it does. The reason is that the crow will fly to the highest part of the inside of the cage, which will be the sloped tops, and not the ladder itself.

I believe Terrier was working on a 6 inch gap between rungs. I'd make them about 18 inches wide over all. Also, remember, at each end of the ladder don't put rungs, have some mesh instead so they can't climb up the inside walls and out.

Hunter21

johngalway wrote: »

Yes it does. The reason is that the crow will fly to the highest part of the inside of the cage, which will be the sloped tops, and not the ladder itself.

I believe Terrier was working on a 6 inch gap between rungs. I'd make them about 18 inches wide over all. Also, remember, at each end of the ladder don't put rungs, have some mesh instead so they can't climb up the inside walls and out.

I get you now ya.. I'll give it a try during the week, make a nice handy sized one nothing too big.

Birdnuts

bunny shooter wrote: »

Agreed, I reckon they are our version of the African vulture .

Not quiet - the African species of vultures I'm familiar with are massive(wingspan typically over 8 ft) and are stictly carrion feeders since they need a certain seize of carcass and other animals to open it up for them since they are rather weak given their seize. They may feed on after-birth but this is rare enough and I've never seen any reports of them killing heathy new borns as they are rather cowardly birds - the also seem to prefer rotting meat.

Indeed the sharp decline in Vultures in Africa(and Asia) in the past 2 decades has caused serious human and animal health issues since a build-up of festering carcasses has lead to an increase in disease via contamination of soil and water sources along with a rabid increase in vermin like feral dogs and corvids that do indeed cause problems for farmers and game ranchers:(

johngalway

Birdnuts wrote: »

I've never seen any reports of them killing heathy new borns as they are rather cowardly birds - the also seem to prefer rotting meat.

Are you talking about hooded crows?

Birdnuts

johngalway wrote: »

Are you talking about hooded crows?

No - Vultures!!

johngalway

Birdnuts wrote: »

No - Vultures!!

Ah, OK, good, saves me taking photographs in the morning then :pac: