Ticket to Evo 2011

Owwmykneecap

We up for doing this again this year?
Can we get a 30, 35 man+ tournament or is there an apitite at all?

If we're gonna do it we need to start planning soon, so a thread to get the ball rolling.

I suppose include in replies if you support the idea and/or if you'd enter such a tournament.

Sairus

I'd say we should run one again.

Burning Eclipse

But for Super or Marvel?!

I'm just saying... we got a top 8 in Cannes in Marvel.

Misty Chaos

If its done in a similar way to last year ( ie, do as an Inferno with an altered prize structure ) then I'd be up for entering it as well. Of course I'm not the one to decide that but what I do know is that one rule will need to be strictly enforced to prevent a repeat of last year's fiasco: Everyone who enters will have to make their intentions of whatever to they want/can to go to Evo or not known on the day

As for the game, thats open to debate, Super will still presumably be the main event but Marvel is probably going to be more popular this year.

Azza

It doesn't have to be confirmed on the day. Just within a known time peroid.

Owwmykneecap

That's where things get messy, a simple tick of the box on the day, full winner annouced before everyone goes home, job done.

We've got 3-4 months for people to make sure they can attend in case of victory.

Azza

Its not messy if its known well in advance that people have a few days after the event to confirm if they can go or not.

fake_roogle

that's why it was messy in the first place; no clarification of what amount of notice you had.

Doctor DooM

You'd have to give a period of about a week for people to confirm whether they can go or not. A trip to America is not a little thing, it can take organising for people in work etc.

After this period of a week the offer should go to the highest ranking player, and so on.

Second on this- I'm pretty sure I am not getting involved in the running of this in any way, shape or form. Fingers are burned.

Thirdly- someone needs to contact the organisers of Evo and see if they'll give us the seeding, or it's pointless.

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

But for Super or Marvel?!

I'm just saying... we got a top 8 in Cannes in Marvel.

Damn right, don't forget it.

Orim

I would say we shouldn't do it.

It's too messy and awkward to organise in every aspect. From organising who gets it (TBH I hate the idea of sending someone that didn't win it), to organising tickets or whatever and it just becomes giving people money, which seems to defeat the point to me.

Unless by some miracle we get everyone that has ever shown up any Inferno we won't be able to cover the costs.

Oh and if we are doing then deciding on the day is a god awful idea. Going to EVO is a big deal based on cost, time off work and all sorts of other aspects. You need time to find out if you can go. A week seems fair, if everyone in top 16 considers it at the same time.

Dunjohn

Why can't people know on the day if they'll be available for EVO or not? It's simply a matter of having the dates available. I've never entered a qualification tournament without knowing for sure that I can attend the main event.

If you award the prize and then give the winner a week to sort out some time off, what happens if they can't? Does second place get an additional week? Or do they, and everyone else, need to spend the same week sorting the details incase the ticket gets passed to them? And if that's the case, why not the week before the qualifier?

I'm all for the know-on-the-day requirement. Procrastinating over it makes no sense.

Sagat06

I think its too expensive. Without sponsorhsip or something I cant see how the money could be made. And the burden that was put on a few people last year was too much and you couldnt expect anyone to do it this year.

But if it does go ahead there were a lot of lessons learned that wouldnt happen again.

Vyze

Couldn't you only afford the flights last year because Chunkis knew a guy who was friends with the half-brother of someone who was in a hockey club with the aide of the girl who worked a few buildings down from a guy whose dad knew where to get cheap flights?

Orim

The main reason for the week is that it's unlikely we'll be able to cover the full cost of the trip so there is still a cost to the participant which needs to be considered based on how much is available as a prize. It's part of the reason why I think it should be a no-go.

As I said, if everyone in top 16 takes the week to consider if they can make it then you're ready to go once it's done. The week is just an arbitrary number, in reality it would be a day or two but it's just some kind of time frame so that people don't have to decide on the day.

Doctor DooM

I'm really, really, really hesitant about the whole thing.

Last year had a financial and time cost for me, it also created alot of stress for me moderation wise, and it also created some bad feeling I'm sure we all regret to this very day.

If people want to do this then ok but I'd like you to think very very carefully indeed before you do.

Misty Chaos

I can understand where your all coming from, I was going by the assumption that people would know whatever they'd want / would be able to go before the day of the event.

I just simply don't want a repeat of what happened last year, thats all. I care about the community and don't want its reputation taking another hit like that again.

ayjayirl

@Structure: Why don't we do an opt in for a tourney thats specific purpose is the winner goes to Evo. That way every participant entering, knowing the dates of EVO, can make arrangements. If the winner cannot make the changes then you have an ordered list (of participants who specifically entered to go) from which you can go through if 1st can't go.

@Costs: A Tourney like this could follow inferno rules and format but we could put a real promotion on it and separate it from Inferno. This could be Evo Qualifier event....... This way we could charge enough for entry to pay more for the cost to send...and in this regard, I think we could offer tickets and hotel stay as the prize with flights up to the individual. Stating this at the beginning would allow people to make informed decisions to enter the competition. I would go to this tourney... No chance of me winning it but I would go, support the initiative and send a rep to EVO.....

....and not Azza! Can't have dirty dictator scum representing us.

Could be done and last years mistakes are something to be learned from, not a reason to not do this....






And for SSF4, not Marvel. Its got more of a draw is a far better game anyway/

chopperbyrne

This should only be run if we confirm some kind of sponsorship beforehand to pay for flights, accommodation and entry fees. Nobody should have to dig into their own funds for the prize.

Also, last years fiasco with who the prize went to was entirely my fault which I've made clear many times and I'm truly sorry for.

ayjayirl

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Also, last years fiasco with who the prize went to was entirely my fault which I've made clear many times and I'm truly sorry for.

So last season man. I had forgotten about it tbh.

@Sponsorship: Gamesnash? might contribute a little?

Question: How much does this sort of thing cost all in for flights, accomm & ticket? Just so I have a fix on it cause there are a few people I could approach re sponsorship - depending on cost.

chopperbyrne

You'd probably be talking somewhere in the region of €1000 for flights, accommodation and entry fees.

Could be gotten cheaper if booked early and got a good deal somewhere.

That's why a tournament like this would have to be run soon, to give us plenty of time to book well in advance.

bush

No point doing this if its like last year where 80% of people in the tourney didnt want to go.

Misty Chaos

@chopper: all I remember was the fiasco, not the person whose fault it was, don't worry about it.

I also wouldn't mind if the event was more expensive than an inferno ( personally, I'd recommended it being done in lieu of an Inferno one month but thats just me ) but it would need something to being in an extra draw, apart from the prize of course.

A bigger than usual venue and maybe a side tournie as well and some finger food perhaps but I'm just throwing ideas around and of course, heavy promotion.

bush

Misty Chaos wrote: »

heavy promotion.

Yes, and some heavy burtations too.

ayjayirl

chopperbyrne wrote: »

You'd probably be talking somewhere in the region of €1000 for flights, accommodation and entry fees.

Could be gotten cheaper if booked early and got a good deal somewhere.

That's why a tournament like this would have to be run soon, to give us plenty of time to book well in advance.

Lads.... 1000 eurons is doable with a community effort, a good tourney and some promotional work.

30 entries @ 30 quid is €900. Couple this with some small, but important, contribution from Gamesnash (I use them as an example only). Would they like the Irish rep to wear a Gamesnash sponsored T-Shirt when playing etc.

Also one not to forget. Every university in Ireland has a Games society and I know first hand of the people involved in NUIM. If we promoted this as an EVO Qualifier (Can we legally do that?) we could not only get interest form these uni's (who, btw, have money for things exactly like this) to send their players to the qualifier. If you got 1/2 from each uni you are talking about 400 quid from them in total if we pitched it at 30 quid an entry. I would reasonably assume that we could get between 20-30 players from all over Ireland from the community as is?

And you could also get Farz to do a site for taking registrations to get ideas for numbers etc.

Burning Eclipse

I really like how positive you're being about this Ayjay. Coming up with ideas and solutions instead of focussing on what can go wrong with the idea. I reckon it can (and hopefully will) work, it just requires a number of ground rules to be laid out beforehand.

I think the first thing that needs to be done, as DooM pointed out, is to contact the organisers and see if we can get a seed spot. Use members achievements in intl tournaments as proof that we deserve one.

Dreddybajs

I'm against the idea for the reasons outlined by Orim and Sagat.

Liquidswords

ayjayirl wrote: »

Lads.... 1000 eurons is doable with a community effort, a good tourney and some promotional work.

30 entries @ 30 quid is €900. Couple this with some small, but important, contribution from Gamesnash (I use them as an example only). Would they like the Irish rep to wear a Gamesnash sponsored T-Shirt when playing etc.

And you could also get Farz to do a site for taking registrations to get ideas for numbers etc.

Good S***.

It's definitely doable and despite the fiasco last time, I thought it was a good idea that time round and it really still is a good idea that the community should get behind now, higher entry price, a 3v3 side tourney on the day, food and beers, make it THE f***in' event.

An evo prize should also be used to bait the big name English, French players and so on which would also hopefully bait other fighting game fans from their communities to make the trip. This could also strengthen our own community not only by building ties with others across Europe but in giving players a reason to level up. And so what if you can't make evo? You can still show your support by showing up and doing your bit to stop the foreigners from trying to make us look like the big pack of scrubs that we are and walking away with the prize.

It'll take some serious organisation but past f*** ups shouldn't put people off getting behind this. The idea of an Evo qualifier actually makes me want to start putting effort into the game again, not that I think I'll win but because it's so much more fun because something is on the line and it's f***ing Evo, in all honesty fighting games will probably not be as popular as they are now, ever again. There's about 2 years worth of hype left in the tank at most and I think everyone in the community would regret not making the most of it while it lasts, make memories worth remembering not ones that are going to yield regrets.

Just make sure nobody gets tricked into thinking they're going... that s*** ain't cool brah.

And no individuals should be burdened with the cost of this everything within reason should be done to maximise the prize pot so this is actually a self sufficient affair.

Burning Eclipse

Liquidswords wrote: »

It'll take some serious organisation but past f*** ups shouldn't put people off getting behind this.

Exactly, well said man. Just because there were difficulties with the last attempt, that shouldn't deter people from trying again, and succeding this year!

Owwmykneecap

Page 2 of the thread cheered me up a bit. some positivity

It's march now. evo's in july.
As aj said, entry fee + sponsership isn't outside the realms of possibilities.

And everything upfront open always. No one should have personal finacial burdens.

everyone active in the scene should be giving a reply to this thread.

1: do you support the idea : yes/no
2: regardless of Q1, if it was held would you go: yes/no.

Neeknak

I definitely support the idea. I know I've no chance of winning but I'll happily come down to the event and put a few more clams in the pot so we can have an Irish rep at Evo

Sabre0001

Mix of positivity, negativity, realism and constructive suggestions incoming - take from it what you will....

First off, I'm not sure EVO is the best place to start:
a) It's far away so winner is less likely to have travelling companions.
b) It's expensive to get to.
c) The format is tough and there is fierce competition.

Why not pay for someone to go to Cannes / DreamHack / i-Series / Ultimate Gaming Championship. It costs less, will be attended by other Irish players, better chance of finishing higher, still respected and attended by good players.


Secondly, regardless of the event, it needs to be just that. An Event. Some have criticised Inferno's €15 entry....so why double that to €30 and expect the same level of interest. If attendees were sponsors (which in a way, they are seeing as their entry will go towards the trip), they would look for Return On Investment.

There needs to be a bunch of stuff going on, plenty of things to do, side tournaments, prize pots, documentary showings. Something to make this stand out rather than just another tournament. I would agree with LiquidSwords in that regard - make it as big as possible and get interest from whereever possible.


Thirdly, it cannot be run in conjunction with Inferno. Inferno is no longer a new thing so can afford the month break that it couldn't the last time. No point trying to please all. Reducing the prize pot and making things messy with interested / non-interested mixing up the running order is futile. This should be a stand alone event. This should be something completely different and something (perhaps on the yearly calendar) to look forward to.


There has to be set guidelines in place - tournament rules are all there, so the extra stipulations such as time to make up one's mind also needs to be set in stone.

GorySnake

Say we were somehow able to cover the costs of travel and accommodation, if the person who comes in 1st place is unable to go to Evo and the person in 2nd place is able, what happens then?

Does the person who came in 2nd get the full prize while the person in 1st gets something like a free entry to next Inferno? €1000 - free entry to a €15 tournament doesnt seem like a fair trade to me.

Do they split the prize? If flights etc are already booked this wont be an option. If they're not booked and the prize is given as cash, and the 2 of them split it, this sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing, since not everyone can even afford half of the trip to Evo, bringing the number of who could possibly attend, even lower.

It's all well and good to have a positive attitude towards this, but we still need to address the negative aspects.

ayjayirl

GorySnake wrote: »

Say we were somehow able to cover the costs of travel and accommodation, if the person who comes in 1st place is unable to go to Evo and the person in 2nd place is able, what happens then?

Does the person who came in 2nd get the full prize while the person in 1st gets something like a free entry to next Inferno? €1000 - free entry to a €15 tournament doesnt seem like a fair trade to me.

Do they split the prize? If flights etc are already booked this wont be an option. If they're not booked and the prize is given as cash, and the 2 of them split it, this sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing, since not everyone can even afford half of the trip to Evo, bringing the number of who could possibly attend, even lower.

It's all well and good to have a positive attitude towards this, but we still need to address the negative aspects.

Hence a clear definition of what happens when in the event rules & regualtions etc. Anyone entering who can't go, probably knows when entering and as such would just have to accept that if they can't go and win then it goes to the next who can. No?

GorySnake

Well obviously if the winner cant go it'll be passed on to the next person in line, but then what about the winner.

ayjayirl

GorySnake wrote: »

what about the winner.

The prize is X. If you win and can't go, then it gets passed as discussed. My question is that if this is known by all beforehand, were is the issue?

GorySnake

So the winner gets nothing if he cant attend? That's going to kill the number of participants.

Doctor DooM

GorySnake wrote: »

So the winner gets nothing if he cant attend? That's going to kill the number of participants.

It won't stop people who aree there to support the community rather than assume they'll win.

It didn't last year like.

GorySnake

But upping the cost of entry to €30 as well? It's a lot to ask of someone who cant attend, entering a tournament for €30 where they have 0% chance of winning anything.

Doctor DooM

GorySnake wrote: »

But upping the cost of entry to €30 as well? It's a lot to ask of someone who cant attend, entering a tournament for €30 where they have 0% chance of winning anything.

The point the lads are trying to make is that it shouldn't just be a tournament, it should be something more than that.

It shouldn't just be 30 euro to play in Inferno lite. It should be something special. What can be done to create that I don't know.

For a loooong time people have hmmed and hawwed over an annual event which'd be the highlight of the fg calender. Might be time to resurrect that idea.

Placebo

GorySnake wrote: »

So the winner gets nothing if he cant attend? That's going to kill the number of participants.

Hows that anyones fault, we can hardly have a back up prize, if he cant attend. Nothing will match the value of the original/initial prize.
If you cant go, tough ****. Strictly speaking before entering the competition, you here by agree that you will be available from X to the Y of this month.

Other than that, im not for the idea at all. Its expensive and really not worth it in the end.

GorySnake

I didnt say it was anyone's fault. I just stated my opinion on what could happen

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

Hows that anyones fault, we can hardly have a back up prize, if he cant attend. Nothing will match the value of the original/initial prize.
If you cant go, tough ****. Strictly speaking before entering the competition, you here by agree that you will be available from X to the Y of this month.

Other than that, im not for the idea at all. Its expensive and really not worth it in the end.

Now here's the thing. I'm torn on this.

It's a logistical pain in the arse and alot of heartache on past evidence, but if we could send Hound or Cog to Evo and they got noticed, for me, that'd be worth my 30 quid.

It's hard to convey how much it made my day when I met a guy in Cannes who already knew who I was, along side Chris, hound, Sairus and others from the videos. From Poland! I actually sat down beside him and he said "Hi, you're Doctor Doom, right?"


That's just me though.

Sagat06

Doctor DooM wrote: »

but if we could send Hound or Cog to Evo and they got noticed, for me, that'd be worth my 30 quid.

or bush or stevekanevo or blag etc lets be honest there's a fair whack of competition at the top nowadays and I'd be happy to see my contributuion go to any of these lads!!

@gory - You are right in a sense, last year there were people who didnt enter the tournament, conceding that they couldnt win so what is the point. But the way I would see this is its pretty much the community saying to its members 'hey we'd love to send one of our top lads to the biggest tournament in the world, can you help?, oh and theres a tournament in it for you aswell'

Misty Chaos

On the topic of alternative prizes, prehaps thats where a sponsor could come in and maybe pay for things like arcade sticks or something related so that the winner if they decide not to go to Evo, isn't going away empty handed ( or maybe that could be the purpose of a side tournament. )

Of course, such prizes needn't be that big a deal but all things are worth considering, aren't they?

bush

If the tourney is basically a fund raiser id rather just give my 30 quid to cobelcog :pac:

Placebo

bush wrote: »

If the tourney is basically a fund raiser id rather just give my 30 quid to cobelcog :pac:

Well, what else would it be. Funds are required.
But i get your point, at the end of the day if we need some one to represent Ireland, it needs to be the best, some one that has won constantly. But Ofcourse there needs to be a formality. We cant just set up a DONATE box.
Also i'm pretty sure Chris will need to bring some one with him [no offence btw, no way id let my kid go to Vegas on his own, either]

Because of these formalities and mind set, it all just becomes an odd pain.

There is talk of people going to EVO anyway, isnt there? thats irish representation there.
I'm going to Vegas in May but for hookers and drugs

bush

To be honest I dont think many people want to go anyway. Most people said on irc they have no interest in going.

chopperbyrne

I'm going anyway. Give me the money!

Owwmykneecap

Lol at the people saying they won't go if they don't think they can win.

Might as well give up inferno too with that attitude.


Anywho thoughts:

Straight up SSFIV tournament: simplest and most obvious answer

Iron Man type tournament: Eg points awarded for tournament placing in 3+ tournaments.
Split between SSFIV BB and MvC3 for example.

Iron man would be much more hassle but also more of an event.

More thoughts: MK launch may provide sponsorship avenue.

Ken B

The winner should get the prize and do whatever the hell he/she wants to do with it.


Ie:if Cobelcog wins it, can't go, he can give it to Hound/Bush/Farz or whoever he wants etc...


If the winner can't be trusted to make a responsible decision we should abort the whole operation. I'm sure that whoever wins(assuming they're a member of the community) will make the right decision.

chunkis

Hi guys,

Just a few things to add.

I spoke with seth at svb about doing this event, so if you guys are willing i don`t see why it can`t happen, whoever wants to get the ball rolling can contact me and ill forward you seths contact details.

However, before you guys set out to do anything, you need to start agreeing with each other on what to do and how to do it.

Working together is the key to success, unite together and make it work. A problem shared is a problem halved, you guys are well capatable of making this event or any event in the future work, but you need to pull together.

good luck.