Ireland's Hydrocarbon Reserves.

shedweller

I've been reading a bit about how much mineral wealth we have in our waters. Bit we seem to be receiving little or no share of the profits from the oil companies, unlike other countries like Norway, Sweden or Australia for example:

Ms Gillard said the Australian economy was in a phase of development where it was experiencing huge growth in the resources sector.
The mining sector was profiting from assets that by definition could be exploited only once.
"Whilst we are in that stage of development it makes absolute sense for Australians to share in the wealth that is generated," she said.
The proceeds of the MRRT would cut company taxation, lift the tax burden of small businesses, grow the pool of national savings through superannuation, and invest in infrastructure.
Ms Gillard said Labor was determined not to repeat the mistake of coalition governments by putting proceeds from the previous mining boom into recurrent expenditure instead of doing the things necessary to drive long-term prosperity.
"Which is why with the minerals resource rent tax, we will have a taxation system that enables Australians to better share the proceeds that come from the mineral wealth in our ground, and better balance economic activity."

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/ireland-highlights-our-strength-swan-20101123-1852r.html
This article says that Australias MRRT is at least 40%:
http://www.ifsc.ie/article.aspx?idnews=52026
I believe there is an MRRT or Mineral Resource Rent Tax that we charge but i'm not sure what percentage it is or other details for that matter.
The amount of mineral wealth we have is also played down and little or no mention of it outside the more activist oriented websites. Which implies that mainstream media are keeping it quiet. Because mainstream media is full of the most usless nonsense at the best of times no?

So why isn't there more talk about how much mineral wealth we have and how much money it could bring into this broken little country we live in.

Would anyone here have more details about our current MRRT rates and how much (lol:pac:) we take in per year?
This kind of income would blow the national debt out of the water would it not?
Thoughts, opinions anyone?

edit: (another link for some light reading):http://door32.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/the-crash-the-bailout-and-the-theft-of-ireland%E2%80%99s-energy-resources/
We are idiots for letting ourselves get distracted and get fleeced like this.

seanmacc

There is also the theory that the reason our country has been broken by the powers that be in this world is so they can exploit our natural resources for next to nothing. An Ireland with full employment may have been less receptive and less enthusiastic about destroying our landscape and endangering our communities with fuel terminals, pipes and mines.

iPlop

seanmacc wrote: »

There is also the theory that the reason our country has been broken by the powers that be in this world is so they can exploit our natural resources for next to nothing. An Ireland with full employment may have been less receptive and less enthusiastic about destroying our landscape and endangering our communities with fuel terminals, pipes and mines.

Wasn't it Lawler and co that sold the rights to our resources to the MNC's back in 1992?

shedweller

I think it was. But those deals can be amended iirc. So we don't have to be stuck with the current deal, whatever it is.
I'm puzzled at the severe lack of information on something that would change the country for the better. It would blow our debts out of the water! Thats big stuff, with little or no coverage of it.

Monty Burnz

What are all these great resources? I only know of a small amount of oil off the West coast, which is being exploited by Shell. If we have all this mineral wealth, how come a) I haven't heard about it and b) nobody bothered to exploit it so far?

shedweller

Monty Burnz wrote: »

What are all these great resources? I only know of a small amount of oil off the West coast, which is being exploited by Shell. If we have all this mineral wealth, how come a) I haven't heard about it and b) nobody bothered to exploit it so far?

Allow me to show you:
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/9462C0F9-D565-4AB2-8211-B442DF33CE97/0/BROCHURE_3_06.PDF

The fields identified in the Report include;

Dunquinn ;__ Providence Resources

The Dunquinn field off the coast of Kerry contains an astonishing 25 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 4,130 million barrels of oil. This field is being principally developed by Exxon Mobil: "With Dunquinn we are planning to drill wells next year and 2009. It is deep water, and as a rule of thumb, it takes about five years to get a field into production, so we are looking at 2013 to 2015. "The gas will be brought ashore in a pipeline and the oil tankered away," explained John O'Sullivan, Exploration Manager with Providence Resources, who have a stake in Dunquinn and fields off the coast of Clare.
Spanish Point; __Providence Resources

Further up the coast is the Spanish Point field, which is 200km off the coast of Clare. The field has known reserves of one and a quarter trillion cubic feet of gas and 206 million barrels of oil, and is valued at €19.6bn. "At Spanish Point we are looking at drilling wells next year and looking at production in that field in 2011,"explained John O'Sullivan.
Corrib;__ Shell, Statoil, and Marathon

Further North lies Corrib, County Mayo, which has an estimated value of anywhere between €8bn to €87bn. The field, which has been the scene of much controversy,
Statoil is owned by the Norwegian government.
Lough Allen;__ Finavera

Inland lies the Lough Allen basin - an area which was largely famous as a bog. But now the area has been notionally valued at €74.4bn and contains 9.4 trillion cubic feet of gas and 1.5 billion barrels of oil. The vast field lies beneath Lough Allen and straddles Cavan, Fermanagh, Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo. The operator of this field is a company called Finavera.
Kinsale;__ EirGas

Although thought to be nearing exhaustion, Tony O'Reilly recently exercised an option to increase his control of oil and gas fields off kinsale. In disclosing to the Stock exchange his other interests, his legal advisor's listed ten other oil and gas interest's in the Celtic Sea. Tony O'Reilly is no ones fool.

kippy

shedweller wrote: »

I've been reading a bit about how much mineral wealth we have in our waters. Bit we seem to be receiving little or no share of the profits from the oil companies, unlike other countries like Norway, Sweden or Australia for example:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/ireland-highlights-our-strength-swan-20101123-1852r.html
This article says that Australias MRRT is at least 40%:
http://www.ifsc.ie/article.aspx?idnews=52026
I believe there is an MRRT or Mineral Resource Rent Tax that we charge but i'm not sure what percentage it is or other details for that matter.
The amount of mineral wealth we have is also played down and little or no mention of it outside the more activist oriented websites. Which implies that mainstream media are keeping it quiet. Because mainstream media is full of the most usless nonsense at the best of times no?

So why isn't there more talk about how much mineral wealth we have and how much money it could bring into this broken little country we live in.

Would anyone here have more details about our current MRRT rates and how much (lol:pac:) we take in per year?
This kind of income would blow the national debt out of the water would it not?
Thoughts, opinions anyone?

edit: (another link for some light reading):http://door32.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/the-crash-the-bailout-and-the-theft-of-ireland%E2%80%99s-energy-resources/
We are idiots for letting ourselves get distracted and get fleeced like this.

So this is now a conspiracy theory.
What is the theory exactly, who is involved, what have they to gain?
Can you state precisely what the theory is.

Monty Burnz

shedweller wrote: »

Allow me to show you:
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/9462C0F9-D565-4AB2-8211-B442DF33CE97/0/BROCHURE_3_06.PDF

Two points: that comes from a brochure where the government is desperately seeking people to come with the capital and expertise to look for and exploit oil, so they are going to make everything sound as big and exciting as possible.

Secondly, it looks to me like the finds you cite are all already being exploited by somebody.

I'm not an expert in the hydrocarbon industry (aside from owning some shares and doing a small amount of research that way) but the whole area is extremely complex and I think that a lot of people have got a notion (courtesy of the left-wing groups and the Shinners) that we have massive oil wealth off the coast, just waiting to make us all rich. We just don't, thank goodness.

iPlop

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Two points: that comes from a brochure where the government is desperately seeking people to come with the capital and expertise to look for and exploit oil, so they are going to make everything sound as big and exciting as possible.

Secondly, it looks to me like the finds you cite are all already being exploited by somebody.
.

Who gave them that right in Irish waters?

shedweller

I would call it a conspiracy i suppose.
God knows the media can talk up anything they wish. The complete lack of coverage on this subject beggars belief though.

We are currently being forced to pour vast sums of money into a black hole and there is a much better way to do that. Re-negotiate a better deal with the oil companies like our northeren european neighbours have done. Will they walk away? LOL! Hardly!
The vast sums of money under the sea around Ireland is ours, not to line the pocket of some private company.

"But we can't afford to drill our own oil" i hear people say. We don't have to. We just take a fair share of the profits.

It is our oil after all.

shedweller

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Secondly, it looks to me like the finds you cite are all already being exploited by somebody.

So how much are we recieving from them then?

Monty Burnz

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Who gave them that right in Irish waters?

The democratically elected government of Ireland.

kippy

shedweller wrote: »

So how much are we recieving from them then?

I'll ask again.
We are in a conspiracy theories forum. It is only fair to state the conspiracy being discussed.
What is the theory exactly, who is involved, what have they to gain?

Monty Burnz

shedweller wrote: »

So how much are we recieving from them then?

No idea at all.

iPlop

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The democratically elected government of Ireland.

Like I said earlier "Lawler &Co" Straight as a die...

iPlop

kippy wrote: »

I'll ask again.
We are in a conspiracy theories forum. It is only fair to state the conspiracy being discussed.
What is the theory exactly, who is involved, what have they to gain?

They conspiracy is that all our reserves have been sold off by crooked polatitians so they can line their own pockets ,true or false?

Monty Burnz

shedweller wrote: »

We are currently being forced to pour vast sums of money into a black hole and there is a much better way to do that. Re-negotiate a better deal with the oil companies like our northeren european neighbours have done. Will they walk away? LOL! Hardly!
The vast sums of money under the sea around Ireland is ours, not to line the pocket of some private company.

"But we can't afford to drill our own oil" i hear people say. We don't have to. We just take a fair share of the profits.

It is our oil after all.

Again, without wanting to sound like a know-it-all (as I said, I'm no expert), the industry is rather more complex than that. There aren't vast sums of money under the sea - there is some oily muck. Without spending a fortune finding it and extracting it, it is totally worthless. Without the oil comapnies on board, it may as well not be there at all.

Having said all that, the amount of royalties or taxes that we take could do with some scrutiny.

There are people who are very expert in all this stuff on the web - if anyone is serious about learning more and making pronouncements about the way things are, I suggest they put some time in on learning how the industry works. I know that there is a good board on Oil&Gas on www.fool.co.uk, for example.

Monty Burnz

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Like I said earlier "Lawler &Co" Straight as a die...

Lawlor was a total crook, but let's not pretend they just sneaked up during the night and stole all our oil.

shedweller

kippy wrote: »

I'll ask again.
We are in a conspiracy theories forum. It is only fair to state the conspiracy being discussed.
What is the theory exactly, who is involved, what have they to gain?

Sorry, i realise im a bit vague. It's just something that caught my attention recently. Seemed a bit fishy.

The theory is that we are not being fully informed about our mineral wealth offshore.

Who is involved? Our Great Leaders and their brown envelopes, and "Big Oil" and the banks i suppose, given the large sums of money involved!

What have they to gain? Vast Sums Of Money!! Our money thats in the ground, while they simultaneously take our other money that we work for every day.

I do feel this thread belongs here but if you feel it belongs in a more suitable forum then sure, let me know. Politics maybe?

shedweller

Monty Burnz wrote: »

........... the amount of royalties or taxes that we take could do with some scrutiny.

Hear Hear!!

chahop

AFAIK Those companys which have been giving exploratory rites have to pay a special tax of 25% of profits from the finds, of course this is after costs.

shedweller

Ok, thats a start. Thanks.

Monty Burnz

shedweller wrote: »

Sorry, i realise im a bit vague. It's just something that caught my attention recently. Seemed a bit fishy.

The theory is that we are not being fully informed about our mineral wealth offshore.

Who is involved? Our Great Leaders and their brown envelopes, and "Big Oil" and the banks i suppose, given the large sums of money involved!

What have they to gain? Vast Sums Of Money!! Our money thats in the ground, while they simultaneously take our other money that we work for every day.

I do feel this thread belongs here but if you feel it belongs in a more suitable forum then sure, let me know. Politics maybe?

I'll say it one more time - we don't have loads of oil off the coast, at least none that has been discovered, or is even proven likely to exist. We do have a bit, bit not much.

Regarding the banks being in on the conspiracy - Shell's profits for 2010 would allow it to buy AIB lock, stock and barrel nearly 100 times over. They don't need the Irish banks to fund their operations.

shedweller

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'll say it one more time - we don't have loads of oil off the coast, at least none that has been discovered, or is even proven likely to exist. We do have a bit, bit not much.

Regarding the banks being in on the conspiracy - Shell's profits for 2010 would allow it to buy AIB lock, stock and barrel nearly 100 times over. They don't need the Irish banks to fund their operations.

Ok, so what do you have to prove that there is not much oil etc in our waters.
Re; my banks comment. Sure, Shells profits are indeed massive. But the money has to go somewhere. In any case, with Big Oils profits so big they could survive us taking a more fair cut.

Monty Burnz

shedweller wrote: »

Ok, so what do you have to prove that there is not much oil etc in our waters.

Can you prove that there isn't a china tea pot in orbit around the earth?

shedweller

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Can you prove that there isn't a china tea pot in orbit around the earth?

No i can't. But if you are going to say, with certainty, that there is not that much oil and gas reserves in our waters then you should back that statement up with something.

shedweller

Here is an indo report from 2007 that has a few quotes from someone at our good friends Exxon mobil. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ireland-on-the-verge-of-an-oil-and-gas-bonanza-679889.html

The Dunquin field is being principally developed by Exxon Mobil: "With Dunquin we are planning to drill wells next year and 2009. It is deep water, and as a rule of thumb, it takes about five years to get a field into production, so we are looking at 2013 to 2015.
"The gas will be brought ashore in a pipeline and the oil tankered away," explained John O'Sullivan, Exploration Manager with ProvidenceResources, who have a stake in Dunquin and fields off the coast of Clare.
Further up the coast is the Spanish Point field, which is 200km off the coast of Clare. The field has known reserves of one and a quarter trillion cubic feet of gas and 206million barrels of oil, and is valued at €19.6bn.
"At Spanish Point we are looking at drilling wells next year and looking at production in that field in 2011,"explained John O'Sullivan.
Further North lies Corrib, County Mayo, which has an estimated value of anywhere between €8bn to €87bn. The field, which has been the scene of much controversy, is being developed by Shell, Marathon and Statoil which is owned by the Norwegian government.
Inland lies the Lough Allen basin - an area which was largely famous as a bog.
But now the area has been notionally valued at €74.4bn and contains 9.4 trillion cubic feet of gas and 1.5 billionbarrels of oil.
The vast field lies beneath Lough Allen and straddles Cavan, Fermanagh, Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo.
"The answer to a large part of our security of supply could be in the North West of Ireland. It has the potential to turn from a gas importer to a gas exporter," explains Tom Davitt, CEO of Finavera, who are planning to develop the field in the near future (No date yet).

Seems profitable to me, and kind of mainstream enough too. But the elephant in the room is the fact that we should be profiting much more from this than we already are!

Monty Burnz

shedweller wrote: »

No i can't. But if you are going to say, with certainty, that there is not that much oil and gas reserves in our waters then you should back that statement up with something.

Well, what I actually said was:

I'll say it one more time - we don't have loads of oil off the coast, at least none that has been discovered, or is even proven likely to exist.

Shedweller - if you are really interested in this stuff, there is loads of stuff about the industry on the web. I suggest you try the forum I named for a start, because those investing in oil companies need to have an understanding of the whole story from geology, the economics of oil, right through to taxation regimes and incentives.

kippy

shedweller wrote: »

No i can't. But if you are going to say, with certainty, that there is not that much oil and gas reserves in our waters then you should back that statement up with something.

I will be reporting this thread shortly as I dont think it fits in the conspiracy theories forum - and there are threads already in the more relevant fora on this very subject.
One more time.
What makes this a conspiracy, who gains, what exactly is the conspiracy?

shedweller

chahop wrote: »

AFAIK Those companys which have been giving exploratory rites have to pay a special tax of 25% of profits from the finds, of course this is after costs.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ireland-on-the-verge-of-an-oil-and-gas-bonanza-679889.html

But what will Ireland make from all this oil and gas? Taxes, is the answer.
"There is no profit sharing procedures, the State take is obtained through the taxregime. In the case ofpetroleum income, the rate is 25 per cent compared to the general 12.5 per cent tax.
"A review of the licensing terms including the tax rates has recently been completed and will be considered by the Government in the nearfuture," explained Helen Chandler of the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

Your memory serves you well!

enno99

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'll say it one more time - we don't have loads of oil off the coast, at least none that has been discovered, or is even proven likely to exist. We do have a bit, bit not much.

Regarding the banks being in on the conspiracy - Shell's profits for 2010 would allow it to buy AIB lock, stock and barrel nearly 100 times over. They don't need the Irish banks to fund their operations.

IRELAND has EUR5.4trillion of oil lying off the west coast

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/2997336


Criticism as Carey signs off on Corrib pipeline

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0301/1224291080638.html

Just before he turned out the lights