Triax Multiblock, Modification?

banie01

Folks,
Quick question for those here in the know
Can a Triax MultiBlock be modded to allow a centrally mounted LNB?
And if it can, any idea where to find a decent guide?

pelisor2000

keep the original lnb holder and add a diferet lnb holder....
http://www.satworld.ie/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=128

banie01

Thanks for the tip Pelisor.
Thing is I already have the Triax Multiblock and would rather not buy more stuff
I want to try and get a spread from 9e to 28.2e and if prime focus for that spread is @16e so I'm thinking if I can mount a central LNB on this type http://www.pulsat.com/products/Triax-Multi-Block-Feedholder-for-4-LNBs.html I should be able to get that too and setup a 5 LNB range at 9',13',16,19.2' and 28.2.

excollier

Read this thread, particularly post #2, it helped me perfectly, same set up.
Thanks to Watty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70860270#post70860270

banie01

excollier wrote: »

Read this thread, particularly post #2, it helped me perfectly, same set up.
Thanks to Watty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70860270#post70860270

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated ;-)
Any pics of your own set up?

Just to clarify, your set up is pulling 16e aswell as Astra's and Hotbird?

banie01

I'm attaching a picture of my current setup.
Ideally I'd be able to ditch the sky mini dish and cover a spread from 9'e through to 28.2e on the TD88 with a 5 LNB set up.
Anyone else want to impart any more wisdom?
I'm pardicularly interested in the upside Multiblock tip?
Is it just turning the bar over?
Or is it actually mounting the Bracket upside down on the arm?
And does any have any tips on modding the triax multiblock to allow a centre mounted LNB at prime focus???
Which if I have my sums right for the spread should be @16'e.
Any tips appreciated

watty

banie01 wrote: »

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated ;-)
Any pics of your own set up?

Just to clarify, your set up is pulling 16e aswell as Astra's and Hotbird?

The ones in this photo

Are WRONG KIND LNB for 3 degree spacing. The holders will work though.

Those are all Quattro LNBs. Single "skinny" LNBs are easier to get. Though Kathrien does a super skinny Quattro.




The 4 x LNB holders on the bar in the photo can be offset to left or right, depending which way round you fit holder on the LNB neck. They are offset. So you can put an LNB at the prime focus.

If you want 19E, 16E and 13E you need Alps or other LNBs (i.e. blade style Kathrien) with the plastic focus spike, instead of the common cast alloy scalar focus rings.
This photo has the plastic spike type focus LNBs, so 19E, 16E & 13E would work.

watty

banie01 wrote: »

I'
I'm pardicularly interested in the upside Multiblock tip?
Is it just turning the bar over?
Or is it actually mounting the Bracket upside down on the arm?

That Triax bar and holder will allow 3 degree spacing and LNB very close or at Prime Focus.


The plastic parts are all mounted normally, as is arm of dish.

The curved alloy bar has hollow facing dish, so that all LNBs are same distance from notional centre that prime focus points at. But it doesn't tilt enough for 13E to 28E in Ireland (it's fine in Germany!). Since the mount hole is offset you flip the bar endwise so hole is at bottom rather than top of bar. Now it can tilt more. Elevation is now very slightly too high at centre, but fine tweak fixes that, and I couldn't see any difference actually as it's only 6mm?

I also drilled a new hole to make the bar East/West offset rather than central as otherwise it would be 19E at centre rather than 16E at centre. No shortage of signal on 28E, so it can be more offset.

The more offset the focus is, the less signal.

This is also why you always need the next size dish up for multifeed.

banie01

watty wrote: »

That Triax bar and holder will allow 3 degree spacing and LNB very close or at Prime Focus.


The plastic parts are all mounted normally, as is arm of dish.

The curved alloy bar has hollow facing dish, so that all LNBs are same distance from notional centre that prime focus points at. But it doesn't tilt enough for 13E to 28E in Ireland (it's fine in Germany!). Since the mount hole is offset you flip the bar endwise so hole is at bottom rather than top of bar. Now it can tilt more. Elevation is now very slightly too high at centre, but fine tweak fixes that, and I couldn't see any difference actually as it's only 6mm?

I also drilled a new hole to make the bar East/West offset rather than central as otherwise it would be 19E at centre rather than 16E at centre. No shortage of signal on 28E, so it can be more offset.

The more offset the focus is, the less signal.

This is also why you always need the next size dish up for multifeed.

Watty!
Excellent Information! Thanks
I'd seen a lot of posts regarding the upside mount, but thats the 1st time I've actually known which part was turned

As for the LNB's I'm currently using Inverto Black Twins at 13' and 19' and was planning on adding singles for 9' and 16' which I was hoping would allow the correct spacing???
Along with a new quad for 28.2 as I assume the thomson LNB from sky wouldn't be the best

watty

The focus rings are for sideways oval dish.
The offset LNB isn't even as much a circular, Sky LNB even of same exact quality compared to LNB for regular dish would be much poorer.

banie01

Watty that was my thinking regarding the Sky LNB, Thanks for confirming it!
With regards to the LNB holder modifications I found some very interesting pics
This one especially with regards tothe13',16'and 19' combination that I'd like to try

And these mods are very interesting too

excollier

Must say, I like the second one. So simple and obvious, some people really can find simple fixes for anything!
I wonder how well it works? No skew on those alps lnbs. And they are a little low, but that could be fixed easily enough.
Good find.

banie01

Well I ordered a 23mm Inverto multiconnect LNB to take the centre spot on my LNB rail
If I manage to get up and running I'll post a pic or 2
It will be a little chaotic with the twins at 13' and 19.2, a quad at 28.2 and whatever else I can fit in on the rail!
But all good if it works! ha

excollier

I look forward to hearing how it all works, particularly the Multiconnect lnb, I am thinking of buying a couple of these myself.
Good luck.

banie01

Well I set up 9e,13e, 19.2e(I'd prefer 26e but the spacing is tight to 28:( ) and 28.2e today and so far so good!
I typoed earlier re:23.5', can't seem to get above 34%SNR on this bird.
Whats normal for Limerick on this bird with a multi LNB setup?

Thanks to Watty for the advice to offset the multiblock bar east to west!
Looking at how far I had offset the Quad LNB, it's a vital mod that I would never have tried
I tried the bar without the mod and I couldn't get a peep from Astra 2 until I drilled and mounted it maybe 7.5cm offset!!!

I'm getting SNR's at @ 75% across 13',19' and 28'2 and on 9'e I'm locking at 44% during the rain today!
I typoe

I'm looking forward to adding the Inverto Multiconnect for 16' as soon as it gets here
I'll post pics as soon as the job is done

Thanks to all for the input so far

watty

Photos?

banie01

watty wrote: »

Photos?

banie01 wrote: »

I typoed earlier re:23.5', can't seem to get above 34%SNR on this bird.
Whats normal for Limerick on this bird with a multi LNB setup?

Regarding above on 23.5 I think it may just have been a weak TP I used for the alignment.
I'm pulling @225 services off this bird and all on channel SNRs seem to be @ 70%-85%

And Watty I'll add a photo or 2 shortly, still havent added 16e yet as I only received the Multiconnect LNB this morning and even with this super slim LNB fitting it in between 13' and 19' is going to take some delicate touchs and maybe even some lube!!!haha!

The pictures give a good idea of just how much the east west offset needs to be to get the spread from 9e all the way out to 28.2 in the Limerick/MidWest area!
Thanks again for all the tips and when I get the holder for the Inverto Multiconnect I'll add more pics




Watty, and anyone else interested ;-) attached are the pics of what I've managed so far!

watty

Note that if the bar is correct slope the LNBs are almost at right angles, just like on a Motorised dish the LNB is straight.

Strictly there should be a slight curve on the bar, a straight bar is a tangent to the curve of the arc that the LNB describes between 42E and 45W.

You are angling the bar to best compromise of the point on curve in last image on link below.

via http://www.techtir.ie/howto/install-motorised-dish by Zaphod

banie01

watty wrote: »

Note that if the bar is correct slope the LNBs are almost at right angles, just like on a Motorised dish the LNB is straight.

Strictly there should be a slight curve on the bar, a straight bar is a tangent to the curve of the arc that the LNB describes between 42E and 45W.


You are angling the bar to best compromise of the point on curve above.

via http://www.techtir.ie/howto/install-motorised-dish by Zaphod

Thanks for the link
I haven't finalised setting up skew yet as I still have to add the lnb at 16e.
Then I can be certain of my spacings from 9e through to 19e and set all to maximum on the box.

banie01

Well I have the spread sorted now and I'm pulling in 9e on @45-55%, 13e @85%, 16e@55%(This is on a jury rigged mount and not 100% stable,while waiting on the collar Pelisor recommended),19.2e @ 85-90%, 23.5e@ @75% and 28.2e @75%.

I had to swap the order of my LNBs to get an Inverto Multiconnect LNB at 16e in between 13e and 19.2e.
But other than losing PVR capability from the Inverto twin I had at 19.2e due to swapping this LNB with a slim ALPS to give me the space to get even the 23mm LNB fitted

I'll add pictures of the final set up as soon I get a chance.
But I'll say now particularly for Excollier....
The Multiconnect LNB will do the job of getting prime focus 16e on the Triax multiblock!!!
If you use a similar LNB holder to the one Pelisor suggests, aside from the flip and east/west offset that Watty recommended there is no other modification needed.
Apart from ensuring you use an ALPS or similar at 13e or 19.2e to allow the space needed for the multiconnect of course

excollier

Thanks. I've already done the flip of the bar, now I need to know where to drill the new hole to offset it, how far is it from the original centre mount hole, please.
I have also ordered a few ALPS lnbs, how good are they? I got them cheap, also another multiblock, a friend wants a similar dish setting up when I get mine working right.
I am getting 13e, 19.2e and 28.2e all nicely on a TD88, just by flipping the bar over. Pics uploaded. The lnb on the right is unused.
Don't know why I am doing this, I just enjoy the challenge, I have no intention of watching anything on these other sats, it's just an interesting hobby I guess.
By the way I have only gone as far as setting it up on a tripod yet.
I'll put up the dish when the weather improves.

banie01

excollier wrote: »

Thanks. I've already done the flip of the bar, now I need to know where to drill the new hole to offset it, how far is it from the original centre mount hole, please.
I have also ordered a few ALPS lnbs, how good are they? I got them cheap, also another multiblock, a friend wants a similar dish setting up when I get mine working right.
I am getting 13e, 19.2e and 28.2e all nicely on a TD88, just by flipping the bar over.
Don't know why I am doing this, I just enjoy the challenge, I have no intention of watching anything on these other sats, it's just an interesting hobby I guess.

The second of my photo's above gives a good view of how far I drilled the offset, I didn't measure but at a push I'd say 50mm as Watty recommended an LNB width
The current LNB arrangement is different now though to allow the space I needed at 16e

I'm using the ALPS on 19.2e and I'm happy with it I haven't noticed any issues at all.
It's spec lists a 0.6db gain but I havent noticed any difference in PQ between that and the 0.2db Inverto twin I used at 19.2e previously.

I'll add photos of the finalised set up tomorrow as until I get the additional LNB holder the LNB for 16e is held on by a spring clamp!!!LOL (I just had to know if it would work!!)

banie01

Well folks heres the almost final set up!
I'm going to lock the Inverto Multiconnect LNB down with a different LNB holder (similar to the 1 Pelisor recommended) as at the moment its set on a self modded LNB holder that isn't locked to the bar.
But even without being fully locked down I'm still pulling in 16e @58% with Tring at @45%

excollier

Impressive!

banie01

excollier wrote: »

Impressive!

Thanks!
But if it wasn't for the advice offered here I wouldn't have even known where to start

excollier

Yes, its great that folk are willing to share their knowlege and experience so freely.
And not only on this forum

banie01

Well I received the LNB holder I had ordered(Similar to the 1 in Pelisor's post)
Unfortunately this type of mount will not allow spacing between 13'e and 19'e....it just wont fit!
So I proceeded to make the temporary mount I improvised above ^^^^^ can just be seen in the above picture
Into a permenant one.
I have modified/jury rigged a holder from part of a Triax LNB holder, that I joined with epoxy putty directly to the 40mm adaptor ring that comes with the Inverto Multiconnect LNB.
I cut away most of the Triax holder, leaving just a shallow curve to glue the adaptor ring to.
Then I cut away the bottom of the LNB(Part that mounts to the bar) and pared away enough so that I had just a lip over the bar at front/back.

As my dish is aimed at 16'e I epoxy resined this modified holder directly above the hole I drilled to recentre the bar and I'm glad to report that this modified mount does the job

I didn't take any pics as I was doing this job as it was one of those, Head down and fix it moments....
It completely slipped my mind til I was finished and had it all locked in place.
I will add pic's of the mount in place tomorrow though!

EDIT
Below is a pic showing the mount at 16'e, you can see the epoxy putty hulding the adaptor ring along with a view of the modded triax holder to give an idea of how muc was cut away.

banie01

Folks,
I'm thinking that with 6 LNBs on the arm that I will need some bracing wire or a support to prevent sag.
Does anyone have any ideas how best to go about this?
Is it a case of using high tensile line? Or is there a kit to use?
Thanks in advance :-)

watty

Use nylon builders cord as it's transparent to Wireless.
Carefully drill holes on dish edge without stressing dish and put piece of tubing or brass eyelet to stop edge of hole cutting cord.

banie01

watty wrote: »

Use nylon builders cord as it's transparent to Wireless.
Carefully drill holes on dish edge without stressing dish and put piece of tubing or brass eyelet to stop edge of hole cutting cord.

Watt you are a mine of useful information!
Thank you
As for drilling the dish, mine is predrilled at the 11 and 1 positions

banie01

Well today was the first day of bad weather I've had since I added the multitude of LNBs and I thought I'd take the opportunity to give an update on performance in poor weather.

I'm pleasantly suprised with the performance of the setup in the heavy rain today across all sats apart from 16'e of course
Rain attenuation practically wiped out this bird for me!

But as I only added 16'e to see how far I could push the dish/Multiblock combination its not really an issue for me, and if it gets to the stage where its a must have I can always switch to TD110 LOL

But for anyone interested during the heavy rain today my levels on 16'e dropped to 15%SNR, Black Screen;
9'e dropped to @37%SNR, 13'e, 19'e and 23.5'e all stayed above the 75%SNR mark and 28.2'e was at 80%SNR during the worst of the rain.

All in all I'm very happy with the final result and hope that my fumblings with my set up can be useful to anyone who tries similar!

P.S Thanks to all who offered help/input

watty

That's why I say Multifeed needs 78* to 110, and typically 90/95 Triax, as the gain off axis drops quickly, and why I align Multifeed dish on 16E.


* Depending on Location. Wexford/Waterford corner of Ireland is better for 9, 13, 16, 19, 23, 26, 28, 39, 42
Dundalk is better for Nordic/Baltic beams/Spots

Midlands to Midwest 90/95 triax,
West 110cm Triax.

babico

17 satellite to 1 dish

steveon

babico wrote: »

17 satellite to 1 dish

Sweet divine I taught Id seen it all...until now that is lol...

foxyboy

excollier wrote: »

Impressive!

banie01, nice multisat setup posted, im trying the same myself, just for clarification are your centered on 16E and aligning dish according to settings from dishpointer for 16E for your location ?

banie01

foxyboy wrote: »

banie01, nice multisat setup posted, im trying the same myself, just for clarification are your centered on 16E and aligning dish according to settings from dishpointer for 16E for your location ?

Dishpointer settings are a good guide, to get you aimed in the general direction before ya start tweaking!
Yes I am centered on 16e, signal adjusted and peaked with a single LNB mounted.
Then the madness started
Current setup on this dish is 7Lnbs! haha
Good luck with your project.

championc

Right, I've got my Triax Multiblock so I'm ready to commence this "project". I have a 1m Lenson Heath dish so I think I've plenty of dish to work with, being located in Dublin. The dish was originally motorised when I put it up 20 years ago so I know it's properly aligned to the Clark Belt - but it's now fixed and locked to 28.2.

From reading down through this thread, I should re-drill the arm to centre and prime focus on 16e - yes ? I am thinking about lnb's at 13e, 19e, 28.2e and one more (undecided as to where yet - any recommendations ?)

Finally, I plan to just buy some quad lnb's. Any recommendations for any particular brands / models of lnb ?

iba

championc wrote: »

Right, I've got my Triax Multiblock so I'm ready to commence this "project". I have a 1m Lenson Heath dish so I think I've plenty of dish to work with, being located in Dublin. The dish was originally motorised when I put it up 20 years ago so I know it's properly aligned to the Clark Belt - but it's now fixed and locked to 28.2.

From reading down through this thread, I should re-drill the arm to centre and prime focus on 16e - yes ? I am thinking about lnb's at 13e, 19e, 28.2e and one more (undecided as to where yet - any recommendations ?)

Finally, I plan to just buy some quad lnb's. Any recommendations for any particular brands / models of lnb ?

You should turn the bar upside down too before you drill.

Black Ultra LNBs are suppposed to be the best but satplanet do cheap good ones

Peter Rhea

championc wrote: »

I have a 1m Lenson Heath dish so I think I've plenty of dish to work with, being located in Dublin. The dish was originally motorised when I put it up 20 years ago so I know it's properly aligned to the Clark Belt - but it's now fixed and locked to 28.2.

From reading down through this thread, I should re-drill the arm to centre and prime focus on 16e - yes ? I am thinking about lnb's at 13e, 19e, 28.2e and one more

Probably no need to redrill anything, depending what other sat. position you end up going for & where you decide to actually align the dish. Seems the multiblock should be fixed with the mounting hole to the bottom, to allow enough tilt for proper positioning of the outer LNBs: does the Triax mounting bracket fit the Lenson Heath dish arm?

Mightn't be a bad idea to stick up a pic. of your Lenson Heath dish.

championc

I still have have whole original polar mount mounting on the dish (with actuator), so at 28.2e the lnb arm is already leaning to 8 o'clock / 2 o'clock (or 7 / 1), the multiblock arm should hopefully sit straight in and follow this same angle (it would be 9 o'clock / 3 o'clock at 0 deg).

I know that Triax took over Lenson Heath so I took a punt that the mount will work but I have my drill at the ready should I need to try and cobble something together since I certainly couldn't find anything anywhere about anything specifically for my LH

EDIT: Found these photos on another forum. This is exactly my one

Peter Rhea

Ah, forgot the dish is still on the polar mount, that should give your multiblock the right tangent to the arc.

You will want to align the dish a bit further west though, with 28 east on an offset. (Apart from the unlikely event you decide to go for something like 42 east.)

STB

The Triax Multibracket is made for the TD series of Triax Dishes.

I am 99% positive that it wont fit on a Lenson. The insert of the bracket is too wide.

You are restricted to using generic brackets, most of which are not stable.

championc

STB wrote: »

The Triax Multibracket is made for the TD series of Triax Dishes.

I am 99% positive that it wont fit on a Lenson. The insert of the bracket is too wide.

You are restricted to using generic brackets, most of which are not stable.

Sounds like I'll be busy with the hacksaw, drill, lump hammer ..........

championc

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Ah, forgot the dish is still on the polar mount, that should give your multiblock the right tangent to the arc.

You will want to align the dish a bit further west though, with 28 east on an offset. (Apart from the unlikely event you decide to go for something like 42 east.)

I discovered my LNB arm of my LH is corroding badly where water was lodging at the bottom elbow of the arm. By a stroke of luck, I've managed to get hold of a Triax TD88 so the MultiBlock will connect straight on.

I'm living in Dublin. I plan to have 4 x LNB's pointing at 13e, 19.2e, 23.5e and 28.2e (oh to have BEIN on 25.5e ) As per @Watty's advise on the other thread, should I re-drill the LNB arm further along to have 28.2e more offset or should 4 x standard LNB's work OK ?

reignschaos

If your going for 25.5, you will need to set that as your focal point. I followed the points on other threads here and they said invert the bar and drill in. Oh and the main thing to ensure for this set up is that you have your elevation spot on. Use dishpointer.com

Also IBA has that same set up on I think on his Triax 88.

championc

From what I believe, 25.5 is now impossible with possibly anything less than a 3m dish. Can anyone confirm ?

Thurston?

reignschaos wrote: »

If your going for 25.5, you will need to set that as your focal point. I followed the points on other threads here and they said invert the bar and drill in.

Inverting the bar is to put the mounting hole at the bottom & get more slope on the bar to aid reception of the offset sat. positions, nothing to do with the sat. at the focal point. (Might even have an adverse effect there.)

reignschaos wrote: »

Oh and the main thing to ensure for this set up is that you have your elevation spot on.

Elevation & azimuth have to be 'spot on' for any setup: a satellite dish is very directional, moreso the bigger the dish.

iba

reignschaos wrote: »

If your going for 25.5, you will need to set that as your focal point. I followed the points on other threads here and they said invert the bar and drill in. Oh and the main thing to ensure for this set up is that you have your elevation spot on. Use dishpointer.com

Also IBA has that same set up on I think on his Triax 88.

Yes invert the bar and drill.

Look on the thread, whats your setup

Nearly the same. I have 26 Arabsat so I use that as the focal point.

I have 28/26/23.5/19/13

I do not know what sat is at 25.5