I thought it was a half they had in Connemara?

brownian

So, on the last possible day (March 1), I ran a decent ten miles at lunchtime and decided to take the plunge and convert my usual Connemara Half to the Full.

I've been fooling around with the idea since about Christmas, but wasn't making up my mind. And, to be honest, if I had another week to decide I'd feel better about it.

Upsides
I've had a few decent runs over the last few weeks, including a 25km over the DMW which was pretty hard (2:10 or so - it really is hard), a 16km yesterday (1:06), a flat 20km in Roundwood (1:30 or so) and various lunchtime 10ks between 40 and 45.
I don't usually train terribly much - I ran DCM in 09 after a few weeks of training that included just two or three long runs (2:59), and have run DCM a couple of other times in under 3:30...so there's a sort of long-term fitness base there.
I'm pretty injury free, despite an ITB scare a few weeks back, that my physio seems to have fixed up ok.
I tend to run reasonably fast as my natural pace; I guess I'm comfortable at below 4:30 per km for most distances, so long as I get enough to drink.
I work at home, for myself, so longer lunchbreaks tend to be balanced by longer evenings work.

Downsides
I've done little or no speed work
I've done litte or no tempos or intervals
I've done nothing longer than 25km, though I hope to get 20miles in this weekend.
I do most of my running on trails/hills or in the Deansgrange linear park, so there's not a lot of long ROAD runs in there. The hill runs are SLOW, so I need to get some decently long, reasonably fast runs in.
I don't have a decent food/drink strategy, though it does seem that I perform best with a half-litre of lucozade sport inside me. I need to suss out gels better.
I tend to take a rest day every second day. The weekend day I don't run I usually do something active, most often hillwalking, kayaking or mountain biking, but the weekdays without runs are idle. I could go to the gym... but I worry about overtraining and injury....

I don't expect a PB (who does, in Conn?), and will aim for 3:30 or 3:45, which I think is more or less feasible. I've little doubt that on the day I'll run the first half in about 1:40 or less, and will then suffer on the two hills in the usual way.

Anyway, I realise there's not a whole lot there to respond to...any spontaneous advice/encouragement is of course welcome, but I guess at least part of the reason for this log is to give myself the little extra push that's needed sometimes to get out for a decent spin at lunchtime.

So far

- 01 March: sign up for Marathon
- 01 March: 16 km [1:06]
- 02 March : rest day

cwgatling

Best of luck. With all that hill training, Conn will be no trouble to you.

brownian

cwgatling wrote: »

Best of luck. With all that hill training, Conn will be no trouble to you.

Thanks, CWG. I hope to get around in one piece, but all training so far has been towards the half, so there's a sharp upswing in mileage for the next few weeks. Staying injury-free is going to be critical.

What I'd like to be able to do is to get rid of the hard balls of discomfort that live in each calf for about three days after a run. I drink strawberry milk immediately after running, I stretch a fair bit, but they still feel like tight knots. I can run through them, but I'd rather they just weren't there.

...having a training log is great, you can just ramble on; even if no-one's reading it, there's less need for "is this good enough to post" than on the main forum.

brownian

brownian wrote: »

S
So far

- 01 March: sign up for Marathon
- 01 March: 16 km [1:06]
- 02 March : rest day

- 03 March 16 km. Garmin turned off, but about 1:05 to 1:10, which is ok. Some cracking houses in Dalkey and Killiney...shame more people seem to live there in nursing homes than in mansions with gorgeous trophy husbands/wifes and fast cars...:p

brownian

brownian wrote: »

- 03 March 16 km. Garmin turned off, but about 1:05 to 1:10, which is ok. Some cracking houses in Dalkey and Killiney...shame more people seem to live there in nursing homes than in mansions with gorgeous trophy husbands/wifes and fast cars...:p

Friday 4 March: rest day.

This weekend is the first long flat run - I don't know if tomorrow or Sunday. Tomorrow if I'm feeling well rested. Aiming for 20 miles (30km more or less), so will go for two or three laps of the lake in Roundwood, which is very flat and quite pleasant. Might run down to my folks in Croneybyrne instead of doing the third lap, if I can suss a good solution to getting the car back... Doing laps (or at least passing the same place two or three times) means I can leave a drink at some point near the start, and have a decent guzzle every ten kms.

Haven't heard back from the Connemarathon people yet about my opt-to-change from half to full, but no doubt it's in the works.

brownian

Saturday 5 March - 20 miles (32km), 2:40.

Three and a half laps of the lake in Roundwood - generally dry underfoot with just a smidgin of mud here and there. A wee bit twisty in spots, but also plenty of straight sections. Almost zero traffic (it being 80% offroad anyway). Nice weather - cool and dry.

Left drink bottles near the start, so drank half a litre of Torq at 0,9 and 18 km. Now that I think about it, a third bottle at 27 might have made the last 5km easier...I did feel a slowdown then.

First 20km were very easy. last 12 were definitely a bit harder, starting to get that slighly rubbery leg feeling. But overall, given that this was 10k short of a marathon, I felt pretty ok. Just a bit slow...I was hoping to get around in 2:25 or 2:30 (I rather like Dermot's "LFR" idea).

Apart from stubbing my toe once, not much to report. Heard a lot about oceanic life and conservation, thanks to podcasts from naked oceans.

Got home (half hour drive), drank half a litre of avonmore strawberry milk, a bowl of pasta plus a tin of tuna, and did a few stretches. The next day (yesterday) felt absolutely fine, no stiffness or tiredness worth talking about. So did something right in terms of recovery.

Ten miles planned for lunchtime today. Hopefully will find it hand after the longer run Saturday.

brownian

Well, it felt handy enough, but one of those runs where you think you're putting the boot down, then get home and find that you're no faster than usual. Climbs did feel a bit easier though, which given Connemara, is no harm!
Gonna have to do something hilly this weekend :eek:

Have rather taken to a route that goes from my gaff where the new road meets the Deansgrange Road (just N of the cemetery), up to the squareabout at Stradbrook, down to CBC Monkstown, up onto Tivoli Rd, down to Glasthule, along the coast (Sandycove, 40 foot) to Dalkey, down Coliemore Road, up Vico Road, down to Killiney Beach, up Military Road, down to Ballybrack across the dual carriageway, then home via the linear park to Deansgrange. That's ten miles of reasonably low-traffic running. Lovely by the sea today in the sun - could have been the Med. Kept half an eye out for porpoise/dolphins, as a calm day is the best chance of seeing them, but didn't see any so got no good excuse to stop

Still liking my "half litre of sugary stuff before go out the door, half litre of strawberry milk when I get in" routine. Had beans rather than tuna at lunch, though, and it just so happens I feel a bit stiff. But then I did feel I was putting the boot down...

Thanks for reading

Anyway, 16km, 1:06 again.

brownian

Some rest days are more restful than others. A bit achey today, despite the only reasonable run yesterday. I might leave tomorrow's 10-miler to Thursday...see how I feel on the morrow.

There's a bit of a bug creeping around the house; my eldest is on the neurofen, Mrs Brownian is slightly under par...don't want to catch anything at this stage. Often wonder, does training make you more open to bugs as you spend your energy recovering from miles of self-abuse, or does it make you lean, fit, cold-proof and tough?

Herself said I should think about new york in November - their excessive website suggests that you go with their travel partner, who in turn says the bones of three grand for four/five days. To be fair, entry is 280 dollars (costly Irish runs, how are ya!), but even so, this seems mad money entirely. You do get guaranteed entry, though. Alternatively you can under your own steam if you do a qualifying time of (for us old geezers) 3:10; that might be feasible, though hardly in Connemara, maybe in Kildare or Longford, if I keep the training going. Personally not that sure I'd be bothered with NYC - all that flying shenanigans, not to mention air fares for two little Brownians and herself and me...Longford might be less glam, but it's more miles for your buck, and almost certainly a better chance of a PB!

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling for a day with zero miles

brownian

Title sums it up. Same run as Monday (tho in opposite direction). Windier day. Run felt handy enough, though hill work needs to improve, as speed cut down hard on the uphills. The big difference was a perception of not working too hard, of husbanding strength, especially in the first five miles, rather than pegging it. The payback - same time as Monday, but easier.

Enjoying Freakonomics radio podcasts and "sweatproof" (we'll see) headphones.

Anniversary dinner tonight, then a rest day....:)

donothoponpop

Ten miles "easy" in 66 mins?:eek: You're hitting some impressive times. What goals have you got in mind?

claralara

Some great running there... I'm starting to worry about the standard of people with whom I'll be running the full...

I emailed the Connemara info address a good few times when I decided to switch to the full. I didn't hear anything back by the 28th February and I started to worry so I got the direct email address of the guy who replied to my friend re deferral. He got back to me straight away and said he hadn't received my earlier mails. All sorted now though. He even offered to put me in for the Ultra :rolleyes: I'll PM his email to you just so you're certain.

rainbow kirby

claralara wrote: »

Some great running there... I'm starting to worry about the standard of people with whom I'll be running the full...

It's alright, I'll be there to lower the tone :pac:

brownian

donothoponpop wrote: »

Ten miles "easy" in 66 mins?:eek: You're hitting some impressive times. What goals have you got in mind?

Thank you. I've never run the Conn full before, but have done the half several times in around 1:30; I guess I'd be happy with about 3:20-3:30 or so.
:eek::eek: I've just taken the elementary step of looking at the results from last year. First M40 was SloggerJogger himself in 3:17, so aiming for anything in the 3:20 region would put me in the first five or so in M40 and is clearly wildly ambitious. Guess I'll just have to give it a go, but 3:20-3:30 might well turn into something less ambitious on the day

brownian

claralara wrote: »

Some great running there... I'm starting to worry about the standard of people with whom I'll be running the full...

I emailed the Connemara info address a good few times when I decided to switch to the full. I didn't hear anything back by the 28th February and I started to worry so I got the direct email address of the guy who replied to my friend re deferral. He got back to me straight away and said he hadn't received my earlier mails. All sorted now though. He even offered to put me in for the Ultra :rolleyes: I'll PM his email to you just so you're certain.

Got this, many thanks indeed.
Update - Ray got back to me already (fine service!) - all sorted. No going back now.

brownian

Chill day today - digest the enormous steak I had at Campo di Fiori in Bray (top restaurant, BTW) and the pint from the Harbour Bar (similar pub). All that protein must be building muscles like the new time. All that fat is certainly making a contribution someplace!

Met a couple in their late 60s/70s in the bar and were jawing about walking and so on - I think an important driver for running or other regular exercise in your 40s is hoping to have the physical ability to "do stuff" when you're retired. It is for me, anyway.

Weekend plans are for another long run (no imagination), but clearly some hill work is also needed. A run up Scarr (10km or so round trip) and then some time doing those fine trails in Glendalough sounds like a reasonable plan just now. If feeling less gung-ho could just do the 25km run described in the "Joy of Trail" thread and tack on a couple more miles in the valley.

brownian

Another day off the roads, mainly because I plan a longer run tomorrow. I might head down to the gym at lunchtime, though, and do a bit of cycling and some core work. I hardly ever do this, and it does seem like a good idea. See how the day develops.

Right knee, home of the dodgy ITB of some weeks ago, is a bit unhappy in itself. Not actually sore, but feels loose and vague. It felt this way on Wednesday's run, for the first mile or so, and then settled down just fine, so I think it should be ok. Wonder am I over-doing the weighted streches that the physio gave me (aha, an excuse not to do them...what every physio junky wants). The extra rest day may be no harm.

cwgatling

Some great runs logged there. That Roundwood loop sounds like a good one - where do you park?

You should try a recovery run sometime. 4 or 5 really handy miles. It'll freshen you up for the next quality session and get the total weekly mileage up.

brownian

cwgatling wrote: »

Some great runs logged there. That Roundwood loop sounds like a good one - where do you park?

You should try a recovery run sometime. 4 or 5 really handy miles. It'll freshen you up for the next quality session and get the total weekly mileage up.

Thank you!

The Roundwood run is lovely - a great environment, and pretty flat. Parking is a bit of an issue, but you have a few options

- the run is very clear on the 1:50,000 OSI map, so you can of course park anywhere that the run touches a road.
- you can park in Roundwood village, just at the junction signposted for Newtown. It's a couple of minutes' jog down to the starting point described in the thread.
- you can usually park in the ditch opposite the very last house on this road, BEFORE the bridge where the run actually starts. I usually park here. I do feel my car is a bit on the road, but nobody seems to mind and there's plenty of room. Some day a looper might come tearing around from the bridge and prang the car, but it hasn't happened yet (touch wood).

Recovery runs - would they happen on a rest day (so Monday fast, Tuesday recovery, Weds fast, sort of thing), or would they replace a fast day ? I run three times a week at the moment, but could run more...I'm just wary of overtraining. But if it'd make me feel chirpier on the next harder run, I'd give it a go....I'm sure lots of unsophisticated runners say this, but I find it hard to run much more slowly than race pace unless I'm tired; a 5 minute km is something I really have to work at, even though 4min/km is (for me) relatively fast.

cwgatling

Thanks for the info. I'm definitely giving that one a go soon.

Yeah, do them instead of a rest day! I've only started doing them this year and the first mile on the day after a hard run is usually miserable but after that it's great.
I know what you mean, 5 min/km is a bit of a drag, but the goal of these is just to freshen up the legs. I find that it works. Bonus: around 10 additional miles on your weekly total! I'm no expert but I'd say it's worth a try for you. You have great speed already but the few extra mpw might bring you on even more.

brownian

cwgatling wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I'm definitely giving that one a go soon.

Yeah, do them instead of a rest day! I've only started doing them this year and the first mile on the day after a hard run is usually miserable but after that it's great.
I know what you mean, 5 min/km is a bit of a drag, but the goal of these is just to freshen up the legs. I find that it works. Bonus: around 10 additional miles on your weekly total! I'm no expert but I'd say it's worth a try for you. You have great speed already but the few extra mpw might bring you on even more.

Grand so, might give it a go Sunday. Many thanks for the tips. 20 miler tomorrow, all going well.

cwgatling

Keep us posted. Enjoy that 20 miles. I have 17 w/13 at MP - it's gonna be good.

brownian

Joined four other boards people (Krusty, JeffonTour, Donothopthepop and Mithril) at Johnny Fox's on Saturday morning. Mrs B. raised an eyebrow at my plans to meet "four guys off the internet" for a scantily clad encounter in the Dublin Mountains.:) Very pleasant 20-mile run, ten down the Wicklow Way and ten back again. Some tough climbs, some tricky descents, lots of mud and plenty of rain. Many thanks to Dpop for the invite to join them and to the other lads for the company and pacing.

I was pretty pleased to be able to keep up, and not to suffer too much more than the others, most of whom were preparing for the WW Ultra, coming soon to a hill near you. The run wasn't terribly fast, in or around 6 minute kms, but it was nicely sustainable, and we could have run a few more miles.

Overall I'm happy that the Conn marathon won't be a lot more effort than Saturday's run, EXCEPT for the critical issue of pace. So will work a bit on speed this week, and hopefully get another 20 next weekend, before starting a gentle taper towards 10 April. I feel I have the intimidation of the hills "put to bed" (ask me later, as I whimper up the hill out of Leenane )

Rest day on Sunday, being taught to drive on skidpans and other good stuff out near Maynooth (when your wife buys you driving lessons at 43, you gotta take em!). Hope to get a short easy run today (cwgatlings's recovery run notion - give it a go) and then a 10-miler tomorrow, all going well.

brownian

So, I said I'd try this - a run between runs, just to limber up and so on. I was stiff today, still recovering from Saturday, especially the quads and hips. So off I went...on the basis that it was "handy" I didn't stretch much or take my usual pint of prehydrate.

The first 1 or 2 km were effortless - a funny stiff-legged jog that was meant to be 5:xx per km but was in fact 4:15, without even heavy breathing. If I can do that for 30km in Conn I'll be flying . After that I did sweat a wee bit, but took it pretty easy the whole way around, sticking to the grass wherever possible. It's not easy to run slow.

Back to the house, didn't feel warm and loose and limbered, just felt hotter and still sore. Good stretch, bite to eat...Not sure I feel any great benefit TBH, but we'll see tomorrow when there's a 10 miler planned, with the usual 1:06 or so target. After Conn (or Kildare) I must try to spot a 10-mile race and see how close to 60 I can get...something nice and flat:)

Miles this week:4
Target miles this week:44+ (today + 2 x 10 + 1 x 20).

brownian

Didn't feel too full of beans this morning, but dragged myself out at lunchtime anyway. That impending sense of marathon looming means that I actually feel a need to be disciplined. I misjudged the temperature and my long tights were well too hot, but the upside is that it was a nice day to run and there was none of that throat-freeze you can get on a cold day.

Once going, I deliberately went a bit faster than usual. Some days that has no effect other than to make you tired; today I shaved a minute off the usual 10 mile time and could have taken off another 30 seconds or so if I'd been luckier with traffic lights. Hard to imagine chopping off another five minutes, to make that sub-60 goal...maybe with some track sessions and intervals and so on. I know I can run 10k in about 38 minutes, so 16k in 60 ought to be feasible...

So what's the verdict on the "recovery run"? Yesterday I felt like sh*te doing it and didn't feel much better afterwards, but I did do a little better than expected today. If I can continue to avoid the soup of bugs doing the rounds in my house, I might try 4 miles easy tomorrow again.

Food log - 500mls Torq juice before run; 250mls strawberry milk + another glass plain milk + banana + tuna sandwich after.

brownian

Off day today, though I plan a short easy run with my daughter this evening - about 5K, at a guess.

No major stiffness after yesterday's efforts, which I'm pretty pleased with.

jeffontour

brownian wrote: »

So what's the verdict on the "recovery run"? Yesterday I felt like sh*te doing it and didn't feel much better afterwards, but I did do a little better than expected today.

Good to hear, we can all say we told you so now! Disappointed you waited till Monday as opposed to Sunday for the recovery run though.

brownian

My wife sent me on a driving course in Maynooth pretty much all day. That's my excuse...and I don't claim to have the fitness of you Ultra savages

Still, I'm prepared to put in a few easy kms today, as a loosen-out, to see if tomorrow I can break 1:05 for the ten miles. BTW, is this "bad training", to run faster than what I plan for the marathon all the time? My (ambitious) marathon pace is somewhere around 4:40 per km, I'm running about 4:10 during the week.

Probably a bit late in the day to be asking this

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

I know I can run 10k in about 38 minutes, so 16k in 60 ought to be feasible...

I reckon a 60 minute 10 mile is equivalent to around a 36:30 minute 10k. So if you can run a 60 minute 10 mile, then you should be able to run a 36:30 10k (and vice versa). So perhaps some untapped potential there?!

On the recovery run, I reckon if you're sweating, you may be going too fast. I run mine at around 8:00/mile - 8:30/mile with a heart rate of around 130-135, which if I remember correctly is around the same pace that Ryan Hall runs his recovery runs. Something to think about!

jeffontour

The clown speaks a lot if sense.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I reckon a 60 minute 10 mile is equivalent to around a 36:30 minute 10k. So if you can run a 60 minute 10 mile, then you should be able to run a 36:30 10k (and vice versa). So perhaps some untapped potential there?!

On the recovery run, I reckon if you're sweating, you may be going too fast. I run mine at around 8:00/mile - 8:30/mile with a heart rate of around 130-135, which if I remember correctly is around the same pace that Ryan Hall runs his recovery runs. Something to think about!

I've run 37 or so in the past (ten years ago, though), and 38:03 in the GIR last year, so perhaps there's room for improvement there. I suspect that a 60-minute ten mile will cause me more trouble than a 36:30 10K. These are definitely things to think about after Connemara (and maybe Kildare, for a PB attempt?)

Thanks for the thoughts on recovery - I'll try to go slower, though I do tend to sweat at earliest opportunity

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

Thanks for the thoughts on recovery - I'll try to go slower, though I do tend to sweat at earliest opportunity

Less clothes! If I'm heading out for an interval session, I'l wear a singlet and a light pair of shorts. Even if it is winter'ish conditions, you won't be long warming up. for recovery runs, I wear more, cos I'll be running at a pace where I can get quite cold.

..and I don't claim to have the fitness of you Ultra savages

I wouldn't agree with you there. You were pegging it up the hills, that we took at a nonchalant pace.

is this "bad training", to run faster than what I plan for the marathon all the time

Yes and no. As is often bandied about around here: Run your fast runs faster, and your slow runs slower. According to McMillan, for a 3:00 marathon, you should be running your tempo runs at 6:15-6:31/mile, which is approximately what you are doing, however, 10 miles is quite a long tempo run. a suggested marathon training program might have:
1) Tempo sessions: Approximately 10 miles, of which 2 miles might be a warm-up, and 1-2 miles warm-down afterwards (so 6-7 miles at tempo pace in the middle).
2) Intervals: Typically at 5k pace (which would probably be around 5:57/mile pace for distances from 800-2000m (sorry for missing metric and statute!).
3) Long runs, with every other long run (every second week) having some element of running at planned marathon pace (so for example: 20 miles of which miles 5-18 are run at planned race pace).
4) A mixture of steady and recovery runs in between.

So instead of running all your runs at tempo pace, you could run some runs faster, and run other runs slower. The problem with constantly running at high-effort levels is that you may not have enough energy or stamina to do other types of sessions and could risk injury if you do them too often. But with four weeks to go, you're probably better off sticking with the your existing plan. If you are doing another 20 this weekend, try to finish the run at marathon pace (or faster if you can manage it). That'll help greatly with your finishing speed at the end of the race.