I thought it was a half they had in Connemara?

brownian

So, on the last possible day (March 1), I ran a decent ten miles at lunchtime and decided to take the plunge and convert my usual Connemara Half to the Full.

I've been fooling around with the idea since about Christmas, but wasn't making up my mind. And, to be honest, if I had another week to decide I'd feel better about it.

Upsides
I've had a few decent runs over the last few weeks, including a 25km over the DMW which was pretty hard (2:10 or so - it really is hard), a 16km yesterday (1:06), a flat 20km in Roundwood (1:30 or so) and various lunchtime 10ks between 40 and 45.
I don't usually train terribly much - I ran DCM in 09 after a few weeks of training that included just two or three long runs (2:59), and have run DCM a couple of other times in under 3:30...so there's a sort of long-term fitness base there.
I'm pretty injury free, despite an ITB scare a few weeks back, that my physio seems to have fixed up ok.
I tend to run reasonably fast as my natural pace; I guess I'm comfortable at below 4:30 per km for most distances, so long as I get enough to drink.
I work at home, for myself, so longer lunchbreaks tend to be balanced by longer evenings work.

Downsides
I've done little or no speed work
I've done litte or no tempos or intervals
I've done nothing longer than 25km, though I hope to get 20miles in this weekend.
I do most of my running on trails/hills or in the Deansgrange linear park, so there's not a lot of long ROAD runs in there. The hill runs are SLOW, so I need to get some decently long, reasonably fast runs in.
I don't have a decent food/drink strategy, though it does seem that I perform best with a half-litre of lucozade sport inside me. I need to suss out gels better.
I tend to take a rest day every second day. The weekend day I don't run I usually do something active, most often hillwalking, kayaking or mountain biking, but the weekdays without runs are idle. I could go to the gym... but I worry about overtraining and injury....

I don't expect a PB (who does, in Conn?), and will aim for 3:30 or 3:45, which I think is more or less feasible. I've little doubt that on the day I'll run the first half in about 1:40 or less, and will then suffer on the two hills in the usual way.

Anyway, I realise there's not a whole lot there to respond to...any spontaneous advice/encouragement is of course welcome, but I guess at least part of the reason for this log is to give myself the little extra push that's needed sometimes to get out for a decent spin at lunchtime.

So far

- 01 March: sign up for Marathon
- 01 March: 16 km [1:06]
- 02 March : rest day

cwgatling

Best of luck. With all that hill training, Conn will be no trouble to you.

brownian

cwgatling wrote: »

Best of luck. With all that hill training, Conn will be no trouble to you.

Thanks, CWG. I hope to get around in one piece, but all training so far has been towards the half, so there's a sharp upswing in mileage for the next few weeks. Staying injury-free is going to be critical.

What I'd like to be able to do is to get rid of the hard balls of discomfort that live in each calf for about three days after a run. I drink strawberry milk immediately after running, I stretch a fair bit, but they still feel like tight knots. I can run through them, but I'd rather they just weren't there.

...having a training log is great, you can just ramble on; even if no-one's reading it, there's less need for "is this good enough to post" than on the main forum.

brownian

brownian wrote: »

S
So far

- 01 March: sign up for Marathon
- 01 March: 16 km [1:06]
- 02 March : rest day

- 03 March 16 km. Garmin turned off, but about 1:05 to 1:10, which is ok. Some cracking houses in Dalkey and Killiney...shame more people seem to live there in nursing homes than in mansions with gorgeous trophy husbands/wifes and fast cars...:p

brownian

brownian wrote: »

- 03 March 16 km. Garmin turned off, but about 1:05 to 1:10, which is ok. Some cracking houses in Dalkey and Killiney...shame more people seem to live there in nursing homes than in mansions with gorgeous trophy husbands/wifes and fast cars...:p

Friday 4 March: rest day.

This weekend is the first long flat run - I don't know if tomorrow or Sunday. Tomorrow if I'm feeling well rested. Aiming for 20 miles (30km more or less), so will go for two or three laps of the lake in Roundwood, which is very flat and quite pleasant. Might run down to my folks in Croneybyrne instead of doing the third lap, if I can suss a good solution to getting the car back... Doing laps (or at least passing the same place two or three times) means I can leave a drink at some point near the start, and have a decent guzzle every ten kms.

Haven't heard back from the Connemarathon people yet about my opt-to-change from half to full, but no doubt it's in the works.

brownian

Saturday 5 March - 20 miles (32km), 2:40.

Three and a half laps of the lake in Roundwood - generally dry underfoot with just a smidgin of mud here and there. A wee bit twisty in spots, but also plenty of straight sections. Almost zero traffic (it being 80% offroad anyway). Nice weather - cool and dry.

Left drink bottles near the start, so drank half a litre of Torq at 0,9 and 18 km. Now that I think about it, a third bottle at 27 might have made the last 5km easier...I did feel a slowdown then.

First 20km were very easy. last 12 were definitely a bit harder, starting to get that slighly rubbery leg feeling. But overall, given that this was 10k short of a marathon, I felt pretty ok. Just a bit slow...I was hoping to get around in 2:25 or 2:30 (I rather like Dermot's "LFR" idea).

Apart from stubbing my toe once, not much to report. Heard a lot about oceanic life and conservation, thanks to podcasts from naked oceans.

Got home (half hour drive), drank half a litre of avonmore strawberry milk, a bowl of pasta plus a tin of tuna, and did a few stretches. The next day (yesterday) felt absolutely fine, no stiffness or tiredness worth talking about. So did something right in terms of recovery.

Ten miles planned for lunchtime today. Hopefully will find it hand after the longer run Saturday.

brownian

Well, it felt handy enough, but one of those runs where you think you're putting the boot down, then get home and find that you're no faster than usual. Climbs did feel a bit easier though, which given Connemara, is no harm!
Gonna have to do something hilly this weekend :eek:

Have rather taken to a route that goes from my gaff where the new road meets the Deansgrange Road (just N of the cemetery), up to the squareabout at Stradbrook, down to CBC Monkstown, up onto Tivoli Rd, down to Glasthule, along the coast (Sandycove, 40 foot) to Dalkey, down Coliemore Road, up Vico Road, down to Killiney Beach, up Military Road, down to Ballybrack across the dual carriageway, then home via the linear park to Deansgrange. That's ten miles of reasonably low-traffic running. Lovely by the sea today in the sun - could have been the Med. Kept half an eye out for porpoise/dolphins, as a calm day is the best chance of seeing them, but didn't see any so got no good excuse to stop

Still liking my "half litre of sugary stuff before go out the door, half litre of strawberry milk when I get in" routine. Had beans rather than tuna at lunch, though, and it just so happens I feel a bit stiff. But then I did feel I was putting the boot down...

Thanks for reading

Anyway, 16km, 1:06 again.

brownian

Some rest days are more restful than others. A bit achey today, despite the only reasonable run yesterday. I might leave tomorrow's 10-miler to Thursday...see how I feel on the morrow.

There's a bit of a bug creeping around the house; my eldest is on the neurofen, Mrs Brownian is slightly under par...don't want to catch anything at this stage. Often wonder, does training make you more open to bugs as you spend your energy recovering from miles of self-abuse, or does it make you lean, fit, cold-proof and tough?

Herself said I should think about new york in November - their excessive website suggests that you go with their travel partner, who in turn says the bones of three grand for four/five days. To be fair, entry is 280 dollars (costly Irish runs, how are ya!), but even so, this seems mad money entirely. You do get guaranteed entry, though. Alternatively you can under your own steam if you do a qualifying time of (for us old geezers) 3:10; that might be feasible, though hardly in Connemara, maybe in Kildare or Longford, if I keep the training going. Personally not that sure I'd be bothered with NYC - all that flying shenanigans, not to mention air fares for two little Brownians and herself and me...Longford might be less glam, but it's more miles for your buck, and almost certainly a better chance of a PB!

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling for a day with zero miles

brownian

Title sums it up. Same run as Monday (tho in opposite direction). Windier day. Run felt handy enough, though hill work needs to improve, as speed cut down hard on the uphills. The big difference was a perception of not working too hard, of husbanding strength, especially in the first five miles, rather than pegging it. The payback - same time as Monday, but easier.

Enjoying Freakonomics radio podcasts and "sweatproof" (we'll see) headphones.

Anniversary dinner tonight, then a rest day....:)

donothoponpop

Ten miles "easy" in 66 mins?:eek: You're hitting some impressive times. What goals have you got in mind?

claralara

Some great running there... I'm starting to worry about the standard of people with whom I'll be running the full...

I emailed the Connemara info address a good few times when I decided to switch to the full. I didn't hear anything back by the 28th February and I started to worry so I got the direct email address of the guy who replied to my friend re deferral. He got back to me straight away and said he hadn't received my earlier mails. All sorted now though. He even offered to put me in for the Ultra :rolleyes: I'll PM his email to you just so you're certain.

rainbow kirby

claralara wrote: »

Some great running there... I'm starting to worry about the standard of people with whom I'll be running the full...

It's alright, I'll be there to lower the tone :pac:

brownian

donothoponpop wrote: »

Ten miles "easy" in 66 mins?:eek: You're hitting some impressive times. What goals have you got in mind?

Thank you. I've never run the Conn full before, but have done the half several times in around 1:30; I guess I'd be happy with about 3:20-3:30 or so.
:eek::eek: I've just taken the elementary step of looking at the results from last year. First M40 was SloggerJogger himself in 3:17, so aiming for anything in the 3:20 region would put me in the first five or so in M40 and is clearly wildly ambitious. Guess I'll just have to give it a go, but 3:20-3:30 might well turn into something less ambitious on the day

brownian

claralara wrote: »

Some great running there... I'm starting to worry about the standard of people with whom I'll be running the full...

I emailed the Connemara info address a good few times when I decided to switch to the full. I didn't hear anything back by the 28th February and I started to worry so I got the direct email address of the guy who replied to my friend re deferral. He got back to me straight away and said he hadn't received my earlier mails. All sorted now though. He even offered to put me in for the Ultra :rolleyes: I'll PM his email to you just so you're certain.

Got this, many thanks indeed.
Update - Ray got back to me already (fine service!) - all sorted. No going back now.

brownian

Chill day today - digest the enormous steak I had at Campo di Fiori in Bray (top restaurant, BTW) and the pint from the Harbour Bar (similar pub). All that protein must be building muscles like the new time. All that fat is certainly making a contribution someplace!

Met a couple in their late 60s/70s in the bar and were jawing about walking and so on - I think an important driver for running or other regular exercise in your 40s is hoping to have the physical ability to "do stuff" when you're retired. It is for me, anyway.

Weekend plans are for another long run (no imagination), but clearly some hill work is also needed. A run up Scarr (10km or so round trip) and then some time doing those fine trails in Glendalough sounds like a reasonable plan just now. If feeling less gung-ho could just do the 25km run described in the "Joy of Trail" thread and tack on a couple more miles in the valley.

brownian

Another day off the roads, mainly because I plan a longer run tomorrow. I might head down to the gym at lunchtime, though, and do a bit of cycling and some core work. I hardly ever do this, and it does seem like a good idea. See how the day develops.

Right knee, home of the dodgy ITB of some weeks ago, is a bit unhappy in itself. Not actually sore, but feels loose and vague. It felt this way on Wednesday's run, for the first mile or so, and then settled down just fine, so I think it should be ok. Wonder am I over-doing the weighted streches that the physio gave me (aha, an excuse not to do them...what every physio junky wants). The extra rest day may be no harm.

cwgatling

Some great runs logged there. That Roundwood loop sounds like a good one - where do you park?

You should try a recovery run sometime. 4 or 5 really handy miles. It'll freshen you up for the next quality session and get the total weekly mileage up.

brownian

cwgatling wrote: »

Some great runs logged there. That Roundwood loop sounds like a good one - where do you park?

You should try a recovery run sometime. 4 or 5 really handy miles. It'll freshen you up for the next quality session and get the total weekly mileage up.

Thank you!

The Roundwood run is lovely - a great environment, and pretty flat. Parking is a bit of an issue, but you have a few options

- the run is very clear on the 1:50,000 OSI map, so you can of course park anywhere that the run touches a road.
- you can park in Roundwood village, just at the junction signposted for Newtown. It's a couple of minutes' jog down to the starting point described in the thread.
- you can usually park in the ditch opposite the very last house on this road, BEFORE the bridge where the run actually starts. I usually park here. I do feel my car is a bit on the road, but nobody seems to mind and there's plenty of room. Some day a looper might come tearing around from the bridge and prang the car, but it hasn't happened yet (touch wood).

Recovery runs - would they happen on a rest day (so Monday fast, Tuesday recovery, Weds fast, sort of thing), or would they replace a fast day ? I run three times a week at the moment, but could run more...I'm just wary of overtraining. But if it'd make me feel chirpier on the next harder run, I'd give it a go....I'm sure lots of unsophisticated runners say this, but I find it hard to run much more slowly than race pace unless I'm tired; a 5 minute km is something I really have to work at, even though 4min/km is (for me) relatively fast.

cwgatling

Thanks for the info. I'm definitely giving that one a go soon.

Yeah, do them instead of a rest day! I've only started doing them this year and the first mile on the day after a hard run is usually miserable but after that it's great.
I know what you mean, 5 min/km is a bit of a drag, but the goal of these is just to freshen up the legs. I find that it works. Bonus: around 10 additional miles on your weekly total! I'm no expert but I'd say it's worth a try for you. You have great speed already but the few extra mpw might bring you on even more.

brownian

cwgatling wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I'm definitely giving that one a go soon.

Yeah, do them instead of a rest day! I've only started doing them this year and the first mile on the day after a hard run is usually miserable but after that it's great.
I know what you mean, 5 min/km is a bit of a drag, but the goal of these is just to freshen up the legs. I find that it works. Bonus: around 10 additional miles on your weekly total! I'm no expert but I'd say it's worth a try for you. You have great speed already but the few extra mpw might bring you on even more.

Grand so, might give it a go Sunday. Many thanks for the tips. 20 miler tomorrow, all going well.

cwgatling

Keep us posted. Enjoy that 20 miles. I have 17 w/13 at MP - it's gonna be good.

brownian

Joined four other boards people (Krusty, JeffonTour, Donothopthepop and Mithril) at Johnny Fox's on Saturday morning. Mrs B. raised an eyebrow at my plans to meet "four guys off the internet" for a scantily clad encounter in the Dublin Mountains.:) Very pleasant 20-mile run, ten down the Wicklow Way and ten back again. Some tough climbs, some tricky descents, lots of mud and plenty of rain. Many thanks to Dpop for the invite to join them and to the other lads for the company and pacing.

I was pretty pleased to be able to keep up, and not to suffer too much more than the others, most of whom were preparing for the WW Ultra, coming soon to a hill near you. The run wasn't terribly fast, in or around 6 minute kms, but it was nicely sustainable, and we could have run a few more miles.

Overall I'm happy that the Conn marathon won't be a lot more effort than Saturday's run, EXCEPT for the critical issue of pace. So will work a bit on speed this week, and hopefully get another 20 next weekend, before starting a gentle taper towards 10 April. I feel I have the intimidation of the hills "put to bed" (ask me later, as I whimper up the hill out of Leenane )

Rest day on Sunday, being taught to drive on skidpans and other good stuff out near Maynooth (when your wife buys you driving lessons at 43, you gotta take em!). Hope to get a short easy run today (cwgatlings's recovery run notion - give it a go) and then a 10-miler tomorrow, all going well.

brownian

So, I said I'd try this - a run between runs, just to limber up and so on. I was stiff today, still recovering from Saturday, especially the quads and hips. So off I went...on the basis that it was "handy" I didn't stretch much or take my usual pint of prehydrate.

The first 1 or 2 km were effortless - a funny stiff-legged jog that was meant to be 5:xx per km but was in fact 4:15, without even heavy breathing. If I can do that for 30km in Conn I'll be flying . After that I did sweat a wee bit, but took it pretty easy the whole way around, sticking to the grass wherever possible. It's not easy to run slow.

Back to the house, didn't feel warm and loose and limbered, just felt hotter and still sore. Good stretch, bite to eat...Not sure I feel any great benefit TBH, but we'll see tomorrow when there's a 10 miler planned, with the usual 1:06 or so target. After Conn (or Kildare) I must try to spot a 10-mile race and see how close to 60 I can get...something nice and flat:)

Miles this week:4
Target miles this week:44+ (today + 2 x 10 + 1 x 20).

brownian

Didn't feel too full of beans this morning, but dragged myself out at lunchtime anyway. That impending sense of marathon looming means that I actually feel a need to be disciplined. I misjudged the temperature and my long tights were well too hot, but the upside is that it was a nice day to run and there was none of that throat-freeze you can get on a cold day.

Once going, I deliberately went a bit faster than usual. Some days that has no effect other than to make you tired; today I shaved a minute off the usual 10 mile time and could have taken off another 30 seconds or so if I'd been luckier with traffic lights. Hard to imagine chopping off another five minutes, to make that sub-60 goal...maybe with some track sessions and intervals and so on. I know I can run 10k in about 38 minutes, so 16k in 60 ought to be feasible...

So what's the verdict on the "recovery run"? Yesterday I felt like sh*te doing it and didn't feel much better afterwards, but I did do a little better than expected today. If I can continue to avoid the soup of bugs doing the rounds in my house, I might try 4 miles easy tomorrow again.

Food log - 500mls Torq juice before run; 250mls strawberry milk + another glass plain milk + banana + tuna sandwich after.

brownian

Off day today, though I plan a short easy run with my daughter this evening - about 5K, at a guess.

No major stiffness after yesterday's efforts, which I'm pretty pleased with.

jeffontour

brownian wrote: »

So what's the verdict on the "recovery run"? Yesterday I felt like sh*te doing it and didn't feel much better afterwards, but I did do a little better than expected today.

Good to hear, we can all say we told you so now! Disappointed you waited till Monday as opposed to Sunday for the recovery run though.

brownian

My wife sent me on a driving course in Maynooth pretty much all day. That's my excuse...and I don't claim to have the fitness of you Ultra savages

Still, I'm prepared to put in a few easy kms today, as a loosen-out, to see if tomorrow I can break 1:05 for the ten miles. BTW, is this "bad training", to run faster than what I plan for the marathon all the time? My (ambitious) marathon pace is somewhere around 4:40 per km, I'm running about 4:10 during the week.

Probably a bit late in the day to be asking this

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

I know I can run 10k in about 38 minutes, so 16k in 60 ought to be feasible...

I reckon a 60 minute 10 mile is equivalent to around a 36:30 minute 10k. So if you can run a 60 minute 10 mile, then you should be able to run a 36:30 10k (and vice versa). So perhaps some untapped potential there?!

On the recovery run, I reckon if you're sweating, you may be going too fast. I run mine at around 8:00/mile - 8:30/mile with a heart rate of around 130-135, which if I remember correctly is around the same pace that Ryan Hall runs his recovery runs. Something to think about!

jeffontour

The clown speaks a lot if sense.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I reckon a 60 minute 10 mile is equivalent to around a 36:30 minute 10k. So if you can run a 60 minute 10 mile, then you should be able to run a 36:30 10k (and vice versa). So perhaps some untapped potential there?!

On the recovery run, I reckon if you're sweating, you may be going too fast. I run mine at around 8:00/mile - 8:30/mile with a heart rate of around 130-135, which if I remember correctly is around the same pace that Ryan Hall runs his recovery runs. Something to think about!

I've run 37 or so in the past (ten years ago, though), and 38:03 in the GIR last year, so perhaps there's room for improvement there. I suspect that a 60-minute ten mile will cause me more trouble than a 36:30 10K. These are definitely things to think about after Connemara (and maybe Kildare, for a PB attempt?)

Thanks for the thoughts on recovery - I'll try to go slower, though I do tend to sweat at earliest opportunity

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

Thanks for the thoughts on recovery - I'll try to go slower, though I do tend to sweat at earliest opportunity

Less clothes! If I'm heading out for an interval session, I'l wear a singlet and a light pair of shorts. Even if it is winter'ish conditions, you won't be long warming up. for recovery runs, I wear more, cos I'll be running at a pace where I can get quite cold.

..and I don't claim to have the fitness of you Ultra savages

I wouldn't agree with you there. You were pegging it up the hills, that we took at a nonchalant pace.

is this "bad training", to run faster than what I plan for the marathon all the time

Yes and no. As is often bandied about around here: Run your fast runs faster, and your slow runs slower. According to McMillan, for a 3:00 marathon, you should be running your tempo runs at 6:15-6:31/mile, which is approximately what you are doing, however, 10 miles is quite a long tempo run. a suggested marathon training program might have:
1) Tempo sessions: Approximately 10 miles, of which 2 miles might be a warm-up, and 1-2 miles warm-down afterwards (so 6-7 miles at tempo pace in the middle).
2) Intervals: Typically at 5k pace (which would probably be around 5:57/mile pace for distances from 800-2000m (sorry for missing metric and statute!).
3) Long runs, with every other long run (every second week) having some element of running at planned marathon pace (so for example: 20 miles of which miles 5-18 are run at planned race pace).
4) A mixture of steady and recovery runs in between.

So instead of running all your runs at tempo pace, you could run some runs faster, and run other runs slower. The problem with constantly running at high-effort levels is that you may not have enough energy or stamina to do other types of sessions and could risk injury if you do them too often. But with four weeks to go, you're probably better off sticking with the your existing plan. If you are doing another 20 this weekend, try to finish the run at marathon pace (or faster if you can manage it). That'll help greatly with your finishing speed at the end of the race.

brownian

KC, thanks for this detailed input. Much to think about. I suspect that intervals are the area where I need to do the most work,and have the most hope of finding an improvement...but between now and Conn it might be best not to try to change things too much.

Will certainly try to finish hard next weekend's LSR; would be hoping to do most of it at projected Conn pace (so about 2:30-2:40 for 20 miles) - I did this two weeks ago in Roundwood, but hopefully am a little fitter now. Either way, will try to put the boot in a bit over the last five.

brownian

One nice thing about a short slow run is that I can invite my daughter to join me. We had a pleasant 5.5km in 37 minutes through the usual park.

As usual (if two recovery runs can be considered enough to have a "usual"), I feel stiff and sore immediately afterwards. The big question is...will I feel great tomorrow when I run a ten-miler?

Time will telll.

Lovely evening out.

brownian

Turns out I didn't get out at all today. I'm nursing the hint of a cold, and that combined with some urgent work, a wife who wanted to go into town and a daughter who wanted to stay at home (and be babysat) was enough to keep me at the desk.

I did sleep nearly 11 hours last night, and with no school run in the morning I'd hope to get more of the same tonight. So if nothing else I'll be rested for tomorrow. That'll mean, all going well, a Sunday LSR this weekend.

Hope that I'm not really getting a cold - that'd be offputting this close to Conn....

brownian

What a lovely day for a run, and what a great run. It's good to get the occasional run where there's lots in the tank, where you're consciously throttling back and asking "could I keep this up for miles?", but where you're still hitting 4 minute kilometres, give or take.

Today I focused on a steady pace uphill (the coastal hills in Killiney are the main ones on this run), and on not letting the legs do the thinking on the flats. All worked out very well, and I'm pretty pleased.

First day in a singlet this year - perfect choice for the warm day that's in it.

Food log - 700ml sugar water before, 660ml strawberry milk + tuna sandwich after.

Bring on the long run on Sunday!

Wonkagirl

Lucky you, running in the sun in Killiney today! I've been too busy at work/partying to run this week, what a disaster. Next run will be Monday, oh well.. will be 10 days since my last run at that stage- and am only doing about 25km a week best case. Looking at connemarathon as a training half, doing 2 more halves this summer so will do better at those hopefully

When you say 700ml before, how soon before? I cant master my hydration at all. I seem to need to go to the loo way too often- or I convince myself the minute i start to run that i need to go- it's very annoying!

brownian

@wg: I drink a few minutes before starting to run. Usually when I'm doing a few warmup stretches. I dont find myself needing to stop much to use the bushes. I do sweat a big though! Today I drank about two litres between the start of an lsr and occasional drink stops, and sweated pretty much all of it out. That's an extreme case but half a litre just before running off really suits me.

ElectraX

brownian wrote: »

What a lovely day for a run, and what a great run. It's good to get the occasional run where there's lots in the tank, where you're consciously throttling back and asking "could I keep this up for miles?", but where you're still hitting 4 minute kilometres, give or take.

Today I focused on a steady pace uphill (the coastal hills in Killiney are the main ones on this run), and on not letting the legs do the thinking on the flats. All worked out very well, and I'm pretty pleased.

First day in a singlet this year - perfect choice for the warm day that's in it.

Food log - 700ml sugar water before, 660ml strawberry milk + tuna sandwich after.

Bring on the long run on Sunday!

That's great going! Especially on a mainly uphill route. Used to run out that way alot for my LSR's when training for the marathon last year...that hill from Vico Road/Victoria Rd up to the arch at Killiney Hill Road is a killer:p

brownian

Very nice run yesterday, in pretty perfect weather. Wanted to get lots of drinking opportunities and to work on pace a bit, so went for four laps of the lake in Roundwood - flat, car free and pretty ok surface.

Tried giving it extra welly on the last lap, as per Krusty's advice; there wasn't a whole lot left in the tank, though. I didn't slow down, but it felt like I was really working and when I look at the Garmin data, I see no increase in speed. Keeping up the pace over the last few miles is all I was good for.

Three weeks to Conn. Would be happy enough to do the first 20 in Conn in 2:20, TBH, but tacking on another six (including a big fat hill) will be a challenge, so I think it'll be sensible to go a little handier.

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

I didn't slow down, but it felt like I was really working and when I look at the Garmin data, I see no increase in speed. Keeping up the pace over the last few miles is all I was good for.

It'll stand to you on race day. It's the 'not slowing down' part that's important in training, and getting the body used to increased effort levels towards the end of the marathon. That's some good speed on the long run. Just another 10k in under 40 minutes and you'll be under the tree hours again.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It'll stand to you on race day. It's the 'not slowing down' part that's important in training, and getting the body used to increased effort levels towards the end of the marathon. That's some good speed on the long run. Just another 10k in under 40 minutes and you'll be under the tree hours again.

Thanks, KC. Fingers crossed, I think I could have a good crack at sub-3 on a reasonable course now; I only needed 8 more on Sunday, at 5 minutes each, and ran the last six km at 4:25 or so. And I wasn't lie-down-and-die shattered at the end. Thanks again for the advice - I'll aim to finish my remaining long runs hard too.

I don't know how much more training "towards the end of the marathon" I have ahead of me...I was planning on cutting back the mileage as of next weekend (maybe 14 or 15 at about 7:00 per mile). What's the consensus of you guru people on tapering - clearly there's a drop off in distance, and a couple of days of near-idleness coming up to the day itself (not the 60-km mountain cycle that I did the day before last year's half:o). But for the two weeks (and two weekends) up to it, should I still be training fairly hard (lots of 6:xx miles) or should I cut back from a 10+10+20 week to a 5+5+10, or what?

Apologies for asking you to run my life for me - I haven't a clue how to!:D

brownian

ElectraX wrote: »

That's great going! Especially on a mainly uphill route. Used to run out that way alot for my LSR's when training for the marathon last year...that hill from Vico Road/Victoria Rd up to the arch at Killiney Hill Road is a killer:p

Sorry, slow to respond...I have to confess to not taking that turn, but keeping on down to the sea beside Killiney beach, along past the Dart station and then up Military Road to Ballybrack, then into the linear park all the way home. The hard climbs are thus just the one out of Coliemore up to Sorrento Terrace and the one from Eddie Jordan's house (just after Sorrento, heading south). My excuse is that I like to see the sea if I have the option

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

Thanks, KC. Fingers crossed, I think I could have a good crack at sub-3 on a reasonable course now; I only needed 8 more on Sunday, at 5 minutes each, and ran the last six km at 4:25 or so. And I wasn't lie-down-and-die shattered at the end. Thanks again for the advice - I'll aim to finish my remaining long runs hard too.

I don't know how much more training "towards the end of the marathon" I have ahead of me...I was planning on cutting back the mileage as of next weekend (maybe 14 or 15 at about 7:00 per mile). What's the consensus of you guru people on tapering - clearly there's a drop off in distance, and a couple of days of near-idleness coming up to the day itself (not the 60-km mountain cycle that I did the day before last year's half:o). But for the two weeks (and two weekends) up to it, should I still be training fairly hard (lots of 6:xx miles) or should I cut back from a 10+10+20 week to a 5+5+10, or what?

Apologies for asking you to run my life for me - I haven't a clue how to!:D

I can only speak for Pfitzinger and Douglas, which is where my own experience comes from. From three weeks out, you cut back your total weekly mileage by approximately 25-28% weekly (if my memory serves me correctly).

So if you were running a 60 mile week before taper, you would run 45, 33, and 25 miles (plus marathon).
Long runs should come down by a corresponding factor. So for example, 20-22 miles pre-taper, 16 miles, 12-13 miles, Marathon.

The important thing is to maintain quality and intensity. Don't run even harder, because your legs are fresher with the lower mileage, maintain a consistent approach to training, with lesser mileage.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I can only speak for Pfitzinger and Douglas, which is where my own experience comes from. From three weeks out, you cut back your total weekly mileage by approximately 25-28% weekly (if my memory serves me correctly).

So if you were running a 60 mile week before taper, you would run 45, 33, and 25 miles (plus marathon).
Long runs should come down by a corresponding factor. So for example, 20-22 miles pre-taper, 16 miles, 12-13 miles, Marathon.

Thanks, KC. That's great service. Given my lazy 40 mile weeks, that's 30 this week (to 28 March), 22 (to 4 April), 16 (to 10 April) + 26.2

What's odd is how little 30 miles seems, now that I've gotten used to the current regime. My wife accuses me of having ultra ambitions....but not next week.

brownian

It's the equinox! The days are again longer than the nights, so the part of the year it's actually worth living this far North has finally arrived. Whatever about sunshine, you can at least rely long summer days in Ireland, and I can't wait. Bring on the light, the long evenings with time to do stuff after work, the walking in hills until nine at night, the option to get up late, go cycling, come home, go for a run and still have light to sit out on the patio with a beer.

Yes, it's summer delirium all right...but we might get a few days like that.

Sorry, this is a training log? If we wanted a bull blog we could have gone elsewhere?

Yes, indeed. OK, today I took another of those recovery runs advised by the wise amongst us. As usual I felt stiff and sore starting, and the same later on. I did learn about indefinite detention of foreign nationals in Britain, but it didn't loosen out my calves any. The recovery run that leaves me all warm and loose and comfy has yet to happen. A good stretch and a hot shower later I still feel tender between knee and ankle (esp. on the left side) and a little dubious about ten miles tomorrow. That all said, I've felt the same after every other recovery run I've ever done (two so far), and still run well the next day.

So let's see what tomorrow brings. Compared to the many logs which are filling with tales of illness or injury, I'm pretty lucky with a slightly stiff calf.

Sneaky thoughts of going to Mallow at the weekend...but can't realistically see a sub-60 ten-miler on zero speed training...if the mid-week tens go well (1:03 or something like that sort of well) then maybe...

brownian

Some days you just don't feel right. There's a wave of temperatures, sore throats and headaches breaking over the household, and I feel it creeping up behind me. Attempts to keep sick kids in isolation and force them to face the wall when speaking to me aren't finding favour, for some reason :rolleyes:. I don't have the bug yet, but I've a nasty feeling it's in there and just waiting to strike....

Hypochondria aside, today's run was a tough one. Despite yesterday's recovery run, it was "wooden legs syndrome" from the start, and it only improved marginally. Even after 10km or so, when things are usually pretty loose, the actual placing of the foot on ground was uncomfortable - stiff calves, unhappy shins. A couple of hours later, both shins feel bruised all up the front, as if I'd be been kicked, and the calves feel tight and uncomfortable, despite a pretty comprehensive stretch. There's no discernible injury, thank goodness - all muscles do stretch without pain, so maybe there's just lactic leftovers.

Maybe I needed a longer rest after Sunday's exertions - I'll do nothing tomorrow and maybe Thursday, and likely scratch any plans of a spin down to Mallow.

All the same, 1:06:30 going a little carefully (really only hit my stride for a couple of miles at most) isn't too shabby for ten miles, so at least there's no disastrous loss of pace. That means my overall confidence isn't bruised, though I am concerned about catching a dose of nasties off the kids....

brownian

Beautiful day. Calves still sore from yesterday, but not so painful to touch, so hopeful of improvement.

Today's aim - spend less time on Boards and more time actually working!

claralara

You could have written my log entry for me yesterday (even though my jaunt was less than half the distance of yours!)

brownian wrote: »

Beautiful day. Calves still sore from yesterday, but not so painful to touch, so hopeful of improvement.

Today's aim - spend less time on Boards and more time actually working!

I was actually wondering as I was running last night whether there are any neruo-surgeon marathon runners out there? Judging by my distractions lately, I’m hoping the answer to that is no. If there are, I really hope they are more diligent than I’m finding possible right now. No one is going to die on my desk in the run up to Connemara. I may lose my job however….

brownian

claralara wrote: »

You could have written my log entry for me yesterday (even though my jaunt was less than half the distance of yours!)



I was actually wondering as I was running last night whether there are any neruo-surgeon marathon runners out there? Judging by my distractions lately, I’m hoping the answer to that is no. If there are, I really hope they are more diligent than I’m finding possible right now. No one is going to die on my desk in the run up to Connemara. I may lose my job however….

Ah well, it's lunchtime now and you're allowed to take a short break. But it's weeks to the run, and the amount of distraction yesterday (I'll just take a quick peek and see how everyone else's training is going...) was savage - can't afford that for weeks at a time

brownian

No definite time today, as I didn't charge the Garmin properly after the last run. But did the usual ten-mile circuit and felt pretty comfy on it. Maybe a minute or two slower than usual, maybe not.

That's the last of the mid-week ten-mile runs, as we slip into taper mode. Next week's will be 11 or 12 km runs, likely just in the linear park. So my expeditions into Rich Mans Land in Killiney and Dalkey are at an end.

Fabulous out there today - sea as calm as I've seen, sun beating down, not much wind. Perfect running weather, as the overall temperature wasn't too high. The usual half-litre before take-off was just right. Took it handy for the first couple of miles through the park - after feeling so poor the day before yesterday, I was ready to cut short and head home if things got painful. Fortunately got to the Ballybrack end of the park without discomfort, in fact with a nice looseness and reasonable feeling of leg strength - so over the main road, through the village and down Military Road to the sea at Killiney Dart Station. It's a sharp uphill from there, but once your'e up, it's downhill for a long way, and there's no serious climbing left except from Glasthule to Tivoli Road. Feels easier than my usual direction.

I'm well relieved - I felt so dodgy two days ago that I thought I'd perhaps injured myself and would need a trip to a physio - not the ideal two weeks out. But if today's anything to go by, I should have a pleasant enough run on Sunday and that'll put my head in the right place for Conn. Little tweak in the left hip after the run, but I don't think it's anything (touch wood).

Thinking about hyration - Ray says there'll be energy drink at M9, M19 and M23 (IIRC) on the day... I fear that means a few gulps from a cup. I'm pretty used to getting in about 2 litres over the course of a 20-miler, and if the weather is warm I'll want that much on the day. I'm also pretty keen on some sort of sugar mix (Torq is my usual tipple)...so perhaps I need to find some handy way to carry 250 mls worth of Torq, and to get it into a sports bottle of water...I have a vision of the paper twists that gunpowder used to come in, back in muzzle-loader days. More to think about....

sorry, he's rambling. Back to work.

claralara

Your ramblings keep me sane! Sounds like a lovely run.

I will be sporting my fashion forward camelbak with 500ml of lucozade sport and a few gels. It looks ridiculous but it’s done the trick getting me around the long runs. Then again, I’ll be on my feet for about an hour and a half longer than you…:rolleyes: