Are our Races long enough?

High Nellie

victorcarrera wrote: »

I would be in favour of shorter races, both pro and amateur, where riders were not allowed to take on the bike nutrition.
It would be interesting to see how the balance of abilities would pan out over various terrain and possibly move the sport one step closer to true genetics.
For example, many keen cycling supporters I know will now only watch highlights or the last 20 mins of the grand tour stages.
I think it would be healthier for the riders too because they would not have to dig so deep for so long before bonking. Minimising the number of sugar highs and lows as a result of the amount of carb drinks taken, can help to prevent depression, obesity and intestinal disorders in later life too.
The fact that some TDF riders will take something like 10 to 15 litres of liquid to get them through just one hot day is madness.
I don't think that training for and cycling around in a vacuum for 4 to 6 hours day after day servers any purpose especially when the TT distances are generally between 16 and 40Km.

And next, we're going to have testing for sugar doping .... ???

morana

last year i did a race 33miles.... what a waste of time.

anyway the reason I asked was that in general I feel the races are too short. Many of the older posters (eg callaly) I am sure would remember that they used to have a fair few (1 day) races of 160km. The toolin was one of those iirc.

I think a minimum distance for each month could be put in place which the RC would make the organisers adhere to. I accept that some organisers will try outdo races nearby to attract a big field however I dont think itis for the good of the sport.

brainstorm

This is going back a bit, but the first two or three races of the year were traditionally short. After that they got longer immediately.

Taking the point of the Junior K-B-K, here junior races used to always be 60 mls, the junior nationals was 75mls and the Junior Tour stages were in the range of 55 -70mls. It used to be easier to have longer races for certain categories, as frequently they had their own race. A3's back then used to race the same distances as the juniors.

Similar for what are now A1/A2 races, there were usually around 70 mls and the 'classic league' were up to 80 /90 and the nationals could easily be 100mls.

Don't really know why the race distances came down though. I always seemed to remember it happening when the drugs scandals started happening... it could have been fall off in CI membership numbers too!

12 sprocket

Speed Kills
To get back to Kurne brussels kurne and juniors riding 116 k. Compare the speed of the pro race 41.5 kph to 39.1 kph for juniors, these juniors were obviously flying along, so does it really matter about reducing increasing irish race distance.
Any rider who intends racing as a pro or in these top junior races needs a huge talent and great training to be succesful

amjon.

There should be some sort of attempt to set up a classic series like the premier Calender in the UK. The Shay Elliot could be the curtain raiser with other races down in Waterford, maybe a Kelly GP? Then Kerry, Cork ect, ect. One every 3 or 4 weeks, 6 or 7 in total. All 150-180k.

RobFowl

amjon. wrote: »

There should be some sort of attempt to set up a classic series like the premier Calender in the UK. The Shay Elliot could be the curtain raiser with other races down in Waterford, maybe a Kelly GP? Then Kerry, Cork ect, ect. One every 3 or 4 weeks, 6 or 7 in total. All 150-180k.

CI to be fair do run the "Classic league" which is similar to what you propose. The problem with it is largely due to lack of numbers and many A1 riders staying away.
Seems it's more popular to whoop A2/3 ass in local handicaps than travel to compete against your peers....

amjon.

RobFowl wrote: »

CI to be fair do run the "Classic league" which is similar to what you propose. The problem with it is largely due to lack of numbers and many A1 riders staying away.
Seems it's more popular to whoop A2/3 ass in local handicaps than travel to compete against your peers....

In the UK there was constant complaints that there was not enough Cat 1 races and the few that did go ahead were located in the North West(the same region British cycling are based). I think the problem with high level/ A 1 racing is that it takes a huge amount of commitment and dedication to even be competitive in these races. Without a large slice of talent (and perhaps even with) you have to forego a lot of other things in your life. For most people this sustainable for a couple of years hence the low number of Cat 1 races in the UK and maybe low number of A1's in Ireland. Maybe the reduction in the length of A1 races is an attempt to attract more A1's? This might work in the short term but as has been pointed out already in this thread it will be detrimental to future generations of cyclists.
Rowing in Ireland suffers a similar problem - there is very little senior competition. It has gotten to the stage where you need to travel to the UK to get some decent racing at senior level(Senior level is comparable to A1/A2 in cycling).
I think the solution to this problem will not be found fiddling with categories and race lengths for A1/A2 riders but by increasing participation and competition at A4/A3 levels thus ensuring these riders have developed the requisite skills and fitness to be competitive in A1/A2 level races once they upgrade. Eventually the pool of A1/A2 riders will grow and races length will have to be increased in order to ensure 80 people aren't arriving on the finishing line ready to sprint it out.

High Nellie

amjon. wrote: »

There should be some sort of attempt to set up a classic series like the premier Calender in the UK. The Shay Elliot could be the curtain raiser with other races down in Waterford, maybe a Kelly GP? Then Kerry, Cork ect, ect. One every 3 or 4 weeks, 6 or 7 in total. All 150-180k.

Yes, the classic league that we had last year was poorly though out and it is clear to see the flaws.
For example, as it went on, few riders had a stake as the points leaders were emerging. In other words, there was no point in racining for 10th place or even travelling long distances to the events when you could get more handy races nearer home, once it became clear that you werent' going to make the top few places.
Even if a simple measure like a category for club teams was intorduced it would give a stake in the races to a much broader field of riders and make the racing competitive, even back in the field. Even if provincial rankings for club team were published after each event it would create a lot of interest for average riders. These would then have to compete in hard, long premier events for the sake of club and team etc.
There are many more such measures that could be brought into a permier league to fit the Irish context and make it worthwhile and competitive for the bulk of A1/2 riders and their clubs.
Of course, this would need to be planned now for next year but I can't see that happening.