RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

The Cush

Not obvious when viewing the website but there is a Trade Login page - http://www.saorview.ie/trade-login/

previous user

Ok thank you everybody for educating me on this,
I'll stop ranting now.

watty

The Cush wrote: »

ATT TV3 - 85% population coverage - 12 sites / no Saorsat coverage, distribution/carriage cost?
DTT TV3/3e - 98% population coverage - 51 sites / Saorsat 100% all Ireland coverage, distribution/carriage cheaper?

McRedmond hasn't said TV3 won't be on Saorview but he couldn't say the same for 3e.

TV3 will be looking not at Coverage but how many people are actually watching Analogue and Digital, above numbers that they have on Sky and UPC.

It's conceivable if really stuck for money they could ditch Analogue and Digital Terrestrial. They would have most of their viewers and zero carriage cost. The BAI can't stop them doing that.

Butch Cassidy

watty wrote: »

Digital is viable if it only has RTE1, RTE2, TG4 and TV. Because it's NOT a competitor to UPC, Sky, Freesat or anything else.

It's simply a replacement for Analogue. Not a free version of Cable TV via the Aerial

The UK is a big place. More than 20 times bigger. So it happens to have a lot of channels. We happen to be able to receive them, with 75% of people getting UTV or HTV (ITV) before Sky Digital existed via mix of direct aerials, deflectors and cable.

If TV3 is not on Saorview, that is effectively giving up their licence and becoming a pay TV only channel. They are able to do that. Their problem is same as Eircom. They have been destroyed by a leveraged buyout. They are barely financially viable with the downturn in Advertising due to the bust since 2008.

Irish TV is doomed to live in shadow of UK TV. The "leveraged" buyout concept should be illegal. It's not shareholder investment and building up a business. But asset stripping.

So TV3 is unlikely to commission decent programming. They will continue to try and have more product placement, advertising, cheap lowest common denominator programs, cheap imports, snipe at RTE, premium phone scams/Fake dial-in "quizzes" on premium numbers, avoid paying their transmission dues (scandal of the < 80% coverage all these years).

Why does BAI roll over for them?

Welcome to gutter capitalism.

At the least the Vincent Browne show is one of the most important programmes on TV and the best thing TV3 have ever done.


I agree with the anger and sentiment from "previous user". People do have a right to be pissed off as the state has failed. They failed to compell retailers to comply and the semi-state has made a cock-up in getting this rolled out so late.

We all know the benefits of Freesat+Saorview over a monthly cable bill to UPC or Sky and nobody has bothered to inform people of this.

I'd like to see the state bulk buying set top boxes to be sold to citizens at a highly reduced rate but I'd also like to see pigs flying.

Take a household with four TVs connected up to an aerial or perhaps they might like to switch from payTV to freeTV - four times €100 for a settop box is crazy. A typical Irish scandal and "systems failure" as per usual.

Has Pat Rabbitte had anything to say thus far? Being that the Soldiers of Fáilure are the largest opposition I don't expect them to press the issue. If anyone is a voter/supporter of any of the Sinn Fein or TDs in the Technical Group perhaps a joint letter signed by a few people asking them to look into the matter might be in order.

BostonB

What this really needs is Freesat+Saorview tuners on TV's. Because we don't have that, we'll be stuck with messy STB's.

watty

No market for them.

So the few that exist are overpriced by about €400

You need a box for a decent Recorder to replace the VHS. Hopefully more of these will play & record BluRay (and your DVDs) in the future as well as having tuners and Hard Drive.

So home cinema BD with a pair sat tuners and HDD added is what is needed. There is a Market for that in UK.

Sam Russell

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Take a household with four TVs connected up to an aerial or perhaps they might like to switch from payTV to freeTV - four times €100 for a settop box is crazy. A typical Irish scandal and "systems failure" as per usual.

I think that the going rate for STBs will fall below the €50 price point before the summer is over. Another poster has pointed out that the Vestel STB that is branded Walker here, is available on eBay for £45 plus del. That is the DVB-T2 version certified for Freesat HD. If Tesco, Currys get their fingers out, we will see real price wars in this segment. They both have access to cheap oem product.

BostonB

watty wrote: »

No market for them.

So the few that exist are overpriced by about €400

You need a box for a decent Recorder to replace the VHS. Hopefully more of these will play & record BluRay (and your DVDs) in the future as well as having tuners and Hard Drive.

So home cinema BD with a pair sat tuners and HDD added is what is needed. There is a Market for that in UK.

A lot of people don't record which is why SKY and UPC have non recording STB boxes, I expect most multiroom boxes aren't recorders either.

A TV that doesn't need a STB is a much tidier install. Its also most likely simpler for the end user with just one remote etc.

watty

I agree, but really the European market for Terrestrial only TV or Satellite only PVR (or Satellite only basic box) is hugely bigger than market for Combo TV or Combo box.

Also there is only Terrestrial setbox market for about 3 years for ones that are NOT PVRs.

Yes, the new Multi-room Sky box is SD & HD but no recording.

The Cush

Two articles from today's Irish Independent on the information campaign

RTE launch switchover campaign for its Saorview digital terrestrial TV service

Thursday March 17 2011

RTE have launched their information campaign ahead of the eventual switch off of the analogue TV signal and move over to Saorview digital TV at the end of 2012.

The campaign will feature on TV, radio, online and print as the State broadcaster focuses on getting the 600,000 households who rely on their aerial for television ready for the switchover. A lo-call helpline (1890 222 012) is also in operation.

...

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/rte-launch-switchover-campaign-for-its-saorview-digital-terrestrial-tv-service-2583035.html

Some points from the article
- Cawley-Nea/TBWA is the creative agency behind the TV, Radio and Online public information advertising
- Arekibo Communications developed the Saorview website
- The online coverage mapping tool was developed internally by RTENL
- The first phase the TV ads will run on RTE and TG4 and the Radio ads will run on RTE services
- The launch phase combines TV, radio, online and print activity (RTÉ Guide?)
- Later in 2011 and into 2012 the national campaign will be supported by local and regional activities

RTÉs worry after ASO

In the words of RTE's Rory Coveney, "the nightmare is 100,000 people get up on January 1, 2013 to discover they have no TV. With this campaign we hope to avoid that."

And Tina Leonard gives her expert advice

Smart Consumer: Are you prepared for the big switch to digital TV?

By Tina Leonard
Thursday March 17 2011

Today, the first advertising campaign from Saorview kicks off to let us know that late next year analogue television will be switched off.

You don't have to do anything now, and you won't need to buy a new TV, but by the end of next year if you haven't prepared you could be looking at a blank screen.

...

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/smart-consumer/smart-consumer-are-you-prepared-for-the-big-switch-to-digital-tv-2582926.html

The Cush

Opinion & Analysis piece on DTT and the new advertising campaign in today's Irish Times

Digital television
Fri, Mar 18, 2011

A NEW advertising campaign on TV and radio is extolling the merits of Saorview, the new Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) service which is set to roll out across the State this year. DTT will replace the old analogue transmission system which has operated since the launch of Irish television in the early 1960s. According to the campaign, the new service will provide consumers with “more choice and better quality pictures and sound”.

...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0318/1224292506467.html

watty

The newspapers seem to miss the point. It's not UPC/Sky competition but FTA digital replacement of Analogue.

"The result is a cobbled-together service which maintains the principle of a free-to-air network available to all licence-payers but fails to take proper advantage of the opportunities which new technology can offer."

Really? Real widescreen, real HD, the best full Interactive Middleware engine (MHEG5) mandatory, up to date MPEG4 to double SD capacity, no wastefull SD & HD dual transmission in the future?

FTA Satellite fill in later in the year.

Exactly how is it "Cobbled together"?
Exactly what feature of DVB-T (Terrestrial Digital) is it failing " proper advantage of the opportunities which new technology can offer."?

Do the Irish Times know what they are talking about?

The issues with DTT are:

• BAI and DCENR undue interference.
• Government holding it back for years.
• TV3's refusal to commit to carriage of TV3 and 3E.
• Lack of Government funding
• Lack of Government funding for Oireachtas channel (it's ready to go)
• Government making IFB responsible to do a channel, but providing no funding.

RTE's problems:

• Too Bureaucratic with too many managers
• Too high a salary for Presenters (x4 to x5 too high)
• Not enough money going on innovative in house production

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

RTE's problems:

• Too Bureaucratic with too many managers
• Too high a salary for Presenters (x4 to x5 too high)
• Not enough money going on innovative in house production

and a willingness to follow the foreign media in pursuit of the lowest common denominator with the likes of 'reality TV' = cheap programmes, and 'product placement' = cheaper programmes, and independent producers = cheap programmes funded by the licence fee and poor production values.

watty

But TV3 are far better at that. They even get some of the licence fee, or can.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

But TV3 are far better at that. They even get some of the licence fee, or can.

I know, that is what I am getting at - RTE copying the low standards of other, foreign owned, TV channels.

The Cush

The week RTÉ launched the Saorview public information campaign, Portugal were doing the same.

The Ministers for Communication António Mendonça and Parliamentary Affairs Jorge Lacão have rolled out Portugal’s Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) publicity campaign with a ceremony in Lisbon.

http://www.theportugalnews.com/cgi-bin/article.pl?id=1104-39

The difference between Ireland and Portugal is we ASO in Oct 2012 (18 months from now), in Portugal they start ASO in Jan 2012 (10 months away) and finish in April 2012 (14 months from now)

The campaign will be run on TV, radio, the press and billboards until the complete end of analogue signals on 26 April.

The old system will be switched off progressively across the country with the first switchover beginning on January 12, 2012 “along the coastal strip of mainland Portugal” officials said. 22 March, 2012 will see Madeira and the Azores making the change and then on 26 April the rest of the old transmitters will finally be shut down.

There was me thinking our 18 month campaign was too short

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

There was me thinking our 18 month campaign was too short

I have always thought that two years to convert was unnecessarily long. If a 12 month period was used from launch last May (when over 70% of the country was covered), particularly for the 12 main transmitters, it would all be over by now. The rest can be done as and when the transmitters are converted, and we would all be done and dusted by the Olympics.

Not great money is required to convert the small percentage of TVs that need updating, but a quicker changeover would have required an earlier publicity campaign and fewer dud Mpeg2 sets would have been sold.

The delay has meant mmany people have to upgrade recently purchased dud TVs.

Elmo

Problems with TV3:

1. Digital Transmission cheaper than Analogue Transmissions
2. 2 SD cheaper than 1 analogue TV channel transmission.
3. Better coverage of current channel
4. Better reception
5. Duh!

Sam Russell

I suspect that TV3 are throwing shapes to persuade the dept to waive any fees so that their free ride will continue indefinitely. They are great at looking for, and getting, free rides.

Why should RTE pay for TV3?

ftakeith

Sam Russell wrote: »

I suspect that TV3 are throwing shapes to persuade the dept to waive any fees so that their free ride will continue indefinitely. They are great at looking for, and getting, free rides.

Why should RTE pay for TV3?

the new saorview website is very good

TV3 should just get on board and ask rte could they pass on links to their tv3/3e website contents

Elmo

ftakeith wrote: »

TV3 should just get on board and ask rte could they pass on links to their tv3/3e website contents

While not described both logos link to their website. Surprised that RTÉ 1 +1 only starts at 7pm. I think the private sector should have been told where to go in relation to RTÉ plus a half channel.

watty

Elmo wrote: »

While not described both logos link to their website. Surprised that RTÉ 1 +1 only starts at 7pm. I think the private sector should have been told where to go in relation to RTÉ plus a half channel.

It would seem reasonable for it to start at 7pm

CBBC and Cbeebies change to BBC3 and BBC4 at 7pm. Same idea.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

It would seem reasonable for it to start at 7pm

CBBC and Cbeebies change to BBC3 and BBC4 at 7pm. Same idea.

Yes when it was going to have a separate schedule in a years time. Now it just 4 years of RTÉ 1+1 why not have a full time service especial when it will end in 4 years and as RTÉ 2 HD has to go on the second MUX. AFAIK "the" "new" RTÉ service will be put on the second mux.

The new RTÉ, one service,

1. a simulcast of RTÉ untill 12 follow by a repeat of those house
2. follow by an RTÉ 1 +1 service.

I use the word "THE" as it is written and "NEW" in a sarcastic manner.

watty

RTEjr and RTE1+1 will be the same actual physical stream no matter which mux they are on, hence time shared. Overnight will likely be Euronews till RTEjr starts in the morning.

The DCENR edict is not clearly written.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

The DCENR edict is not clearly written.

And hopefully will be re-written by the new minister when he gets to grips with it. There has been a stitch up of RTE to the benefit of TV3, Sky and the newspapers. Another Ray Burke job. No adverts on RTE News Now, and no new channel for RTE (RTE 3) which could have added something to the DTT attraction for viewers.

It all looks to be a way of capping RTE's advertising revenues, as I said, in the style of Ray Burke.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

RTEjr and RTE1+1 will be the same actual physical stream no matter which mux they are on, hence time shared. Overnight will likely be Euronews till RTEjr starts in the morning.

The DCENR edict is not clearly written.

4. The RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus channel shall be carried on the first multiplex until 1 September 2011 and from 1 September 2011 shall be transferred to the second multiplex;

I suppose the are stating that it is one channel but they both move to the second mux in Sept.

So RTÉ have 4 channels, and the 2 new ones don't effect TV3 and RTÉ 2 HD also doesn't effect TV3, so what exactly is TV3's problem?

watty

TV3 want something for nothing and to hobble RTE as much as possible.

Sam Russell

TV3 have got used to being listened to when they don the begging cap, and carp on about unfair competition, and how the whole world hates them, and RTE in particular, despite RTE getting all the licence fee money, and why can't TV3 get some of it, and the transmission fees charged by RTE NL are unfair to TV3, and ........................................... so on.

watty

But TV3 can have up to 10% if they apply and make programs.

Sam Russell

They have applied and have made programmes. Totally rubbish head-to-camera with archive footage. No dramas, no investigative journalism. In fact no journalism. They have very low standards on every aspect of their output. They are a cable TV channel not making it in the daylight.