Remind people of reasons not to vote ff

jmayo

Folks as is probably known by a few around here I would be in scr123 band of ABffers.

And I think it is timely to remind voters just why ff should be consigned to the bin tomorrow.

I am not going to ask people to vote for any other particular party, but please just vote.

People died in this country so you could have that privledge and people are dying today in other countries so they can have the privledge you will enjoy tomorrow.
It make only take 30 mins out of your life, but it can make a big difference.
Candidates have been elected on a difference of as few as 5 or 10 votes.

Anyway read the lists and dispair of what was done.
Perhaps someone (Biggins has done alot so far) can put together a more comprehensive list than this.

Banking crisis.
Insolvency of almost our entire indigenous banking sector due to lack of proper regulation by state regulatory authorities.
Anglo, AIB, BOI our three major banks and INBS, EBS two of our major building societies needed the taxpayers to keep them afloat by guaranteeing everything.

Bank Guarantee, NAMA, recapitalisation and nationalisation.
Irish taxpayers made responsible for the bank's debts.
Ultimate Cost still unknown over two years later and taxpayers carrying can for irresponsible government, regulators, dept of finance, bankers and developers.

Anglo has managed to become the world biggest corporate loss maker and the Irish taxpayers are carrying those losses.

IMFand ECB deal, not a bailout but a sell out, to keep our country economically alfoat.

Current Budget Deficit.
Public sector spending vastly increased during bubble, all funded by unsustainable transactional taxes form construction bubble and retail spending.
With bursting of bubble and credit crunch a 20 billion hole left in budget.

Unemployment.
Due to allowing Irish economy turn into one sustained by short term cheap credit, a massive jump in unemployemnt was recorded as cheap credit dries up and construction bubble bursts.
Unemployment jumps by over 200,000
Emigration drastically increases.

Indebtness.
Due to uncontrolled construction bubble, the level of personal debt being carried by Irish citizens in now some of the highest in the world.

Competitiveness.
Irish competitivesness drops as construction bubble made mainstay of economy.
MNCs and indigenous companies close.
e.g Dell pulls out of Limerick.
Irish Sugar Industry sold out due to cock up by coughlan's dept
One can add their own companies here...

The Connected Ones at the top.

• Bankers flee country and claim they can no longer repay their loans.
• Developers declare bankruptcy and/or flee country.
  These would include the same developers who were visitors to ff Galway races tent or invitees to a taoiseach's speeches to British parliament and US Congress.
• Ex regulatory heads from CB and IFSRA resign, but leave with handsome payouts.
• Fás chief resigns with handsome payout after presiding over huge wastage and body riddled with fraud.
• Government ministers, Dáil Ceann Comhairle and non elected senator rack up huge unvouched expenses and refuse to apologise to taxpayers for wastage.
• Government Ministers resign and fail to stand for election, but get huge goodbye handouts from taxpayers.
• ff hangers on and lower lights in the party get appointed to state boards prior to election

Wastage.

• Fás (hundreds of millions at time of full employment)
• Cost overruns Luas, Port Tunnel, Motorways (hundreds of millions)
• HSE ???
• PPARS (150 odd million)
• e-voting (50 odd million)
• bertie bowl (100 odd million)
• expenses ???

Smart Economy

• Myth 1 availability of fast high speed broadband
• Myth 2 availability of high calibre graduates
• Myth 3 our education system

Now the below list only deals with stuff upto 2007 and it makes it even more depressing that people voted for them in 2007.

1. In October 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern became the highest paid Prime Minister in the democratic world at €310,000, more than US President George Bush at €279,000. Fianna Fail Ministers such as Willie O’Dea are paid more than US Vice President Dick Cheney.

2. In October 2007, former Fianna Fail Government Press Secretary Frank Dunlop told the Mahon Tribunal that property developer Owen O’Callaghan paid off a debt of £10,700 for Fianna Fail councillor Colm McGrath when he was facing a court judgment.

3. In October 2007, a book was published that included a claim that a serving Government Minister has admitted taking cocaine, and that he wasn’t the only one doing it. Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has made no effort to investigate this.

4. In September 2007, Fianna Fail TD Michael Collins was found guilty in court of obtaining a tax clearance certificate under false pretences. He had previously made a €130,000 tax settlement arising from a bogus non-resident bank account.

5. In September 2007, jailed Fianna Fail councillor Michael ‘Stroke’ Fahey had missed six months of council meetings, and by law he should have been deemed to have resigned. He escaped this by asking the council to deem his absence to be ‘due to illness and attendance in Dublin’.

6. In September 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, while being questioned at the Mahon Tribunal, accepted that his earlier story that Celia Larkin had made a £30,000 sterling transaction on his behalf could not be correct, unless the bank records were inaccurate.

7. In September 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, while being questioned at the Mahon Tribunal, said that he must have given £30,000 to somebody else (to make a transaction that the bank had no record for), but he didn’t know who he gave the money to.

8. In August 2007, Bertie Ahern appointed as a Senator former Fianna Fail TD Ivor Callely, who had just lost his Dail seat in a general election, and who had resigned as a Junior Minister after a scandal in 2005.

9. In August 2007, Bertie Ahern appointed as a Senator former Fianna Fail TD John Ellis, who had just lost his Dail seat in a general election, and who had resigned as chair of an Oireachtas committee after a scandal in 1999.

10. In August 2007, it was revealed that Fianna Fail-led Governments have so far spent €52 million on obtaining and storing electronic voting machines that have only been used once, in a number of constituencies in the 2002.

11. In July 2007, after a strenuous seven days of work since being elected in mid-June, the Dail adjourned for a three-month summer holiday.

12. In July 2007 the Standards in Public Office Commission said that Fianna Fail had failed to report a donation in the party’s statutory declarations for 2005.

13. In June 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern made secret deals, using taxpayers money, with independent TDs to secure their support as Taoiseach. Two of these independent TDs, Beverly Flynn and Michael Lowry, had previously been forced to resign from their parties after scandals.

14. In June 2007, Fianna Fail changed the law to create three new Junior Ministers with salaries of €150,000 a year. They had previously done this in 1977 and 1980. When Fine Gael did the same in 1995, Fianna Fail called it an abuse of the taxpayer and an act of hypocrisy, and Bertie Ahern vowed to abolish the new posts.

15. In March 2007, Fianna Fail councillor Michael ‘Stroke’ Fahey was jailed for twelve months after being found guilty of defrauding his own council of €15,000 and falsely implicating an innocent contractor in the crime. The jailed councillor was also chairman of the Limerick Prison visiting committee.

16. In May 2007, stockbroker Padraic O’Connor said that Bertie Ahern was wrong to say that he had given Ahern £5,000 as a loan from a friend in 1993. O’Connor said he was not a friend of Ahern’s, that he had been asked for a political donation of £5,000, that he had given that on a company cheque, and that he had been given in return a false invoice for consultancy work that had not been done.

17. In February 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern praised the Moriarty Tribunal for its ‘outstanding work in painstakingly stripping away the layers of secrecy and obscurity surrounding Mr Haughey’s financial affairs and exposing them to public scrutiny.’

18. In December 2006, the Moriarty Tribunal found that former Taoiseach Charles Haughey took payments of €11.56 million, or €45 million in today’s money, between 1979 and 1996, and granted favours in return.

19. In October 2006, it emerged that Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had bought his house from businessman Michael Wall, who had been at a dinner in Manchester at which Ahern was given £8,000 sterling. When asked why he had not previously said that Wall was at the dinner, Ahern replied that Wall had not eaten the dinner.

20. In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said that, when he was Minister for Finance, he had unexpectedly received a donation of £8,000 sterling from some millionaires who he had a meal with in Manchester on the night before a Manchester United football match.

21. In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern accepted that he had appointed people who gave him money to State boards, but he insisted that he did not appoint them because they gave him money. He said he had appointed them because they were his friends.

22. In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said that he had accepted £39,000 from friends, including the brilliantly-named Paddy the Plasterer, in 1993 and 1994. He said it was loans, and that he had tried to pay them back but they had all refused.

23. In September 2006, when Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was first asked about allegations of receiving from €50,000 and €100,000 from businessmen, he told journalists that a lot of the report was correct but that ‘the figures are off the wall.’ This, of course, was true, because he got some of the money ‘off Michael Wall’.

24. In June 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said at the funeral of Charles Haughey that: ‘He was a consummate politician… The definition of a patriot is someone who devotes all their energy to the betterment of their countrymen. Charles Haughey was a patriot to his finger tips.’


25. In May 2006, Fianna Fail Junior Minister Conor Lenihan heckled Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins during a Dail debate. Higgins had been campaigning on behalf of immigrant Turkish construction workers, and Lenihan said that Higgins ‘should stick with the kebabs’.

26. In December 2005, Fianna Fail Junior Minister Ivor Callely resigned when it emerged that a top construction company had painted his house free of charge, while the company was also doing work for the Eastern Health Board of which Callely was chairperson.

27. In November 2005, with gangland crime all over the newspapers, Fianna Fail Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea posed for photographers smiling as he pointed a pistol directly into the camera.

28. In April 2005, former Fianna Fail Junior Minister for Transport, Jim McDaid, who had led an anti-drink-driving campaign, was arrested after drunkenly driving his car the wrong way up a busy dual carriageway.

29. In January 2005, former Fianna Fail Justice Minister Ray Burke was jailed for six months for making false tax declarations, breaking a law that he himself had helped to pass. He served four and a half months in Arbour Hill prison.

30. In May 2004, Fianna Fail expelled Mayo TD Beverly Flynn from the Party. Bertie Ahern said the integrity of the party depended on her expulsion, that Fianna Fail was at a crossroads, and that the party would also have to deal with any other members who transgressed ethics and standards in public life.

31. In September 2003, Fianna Fail TD Michael Collins resigned from the Parliamentary Party after making a €130,000 tax settlement arising from a bogus non-resident bank account.

32. In September 2003, Fianna Fail TD GV Wright knocked down a nurse while driving under the influence of alcohol. The nurse’s leg was broken in four places.

33. In December 2002, former Fianna Fail Government Press Secretary Frank Dunlop told the Flood Tribunal that former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor (who he also knew as ‘Mr Big’) was the first person to tell him that money would have to be paid to councillors in return for their votes.

34. In November 2002, former Fianna Fail Government press Secretary Frank Dunlop named six Fianna Fail councilors who he bribed to secure the rezoning of land at Carrickmines in south Dublin.

35. In September 2002, the Flood Tribunal found that former Fianna Fail Justice Minister Ray Burke received corrupt payments, including £125,000 from property developers and £30,000 from the owners of Century Radio.

36. In September 2002, the Flood Tribunal found that former Fianna Fail Government Press Secretary PJ Mara had failed to co-operate with the Tribunal, by failing to provide details of an overseas account. In the 1980s, in a Hot Press interview, Mara said that his greatest ambition was ‘never to be found out’.

37. In May 2002, former Fianna Fail Government press Secretary Frank Dunlop said that he paid at least £160,000 to 25 councillors in relation to the redrafting of the Dublin County Council development plan from 1991 to 1993.

38. In February 2002, former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor was jailed for a third time for contempt of court when he refused to comply with orders of the Flood Tribunal. When the Dail called for his resignation, he was brought to Leinster House in a prison van to speak against the motion. Lawlor had previously chaired the Dail Ethics Committee.

39. In January 2002, former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor was jailed for a second time for contempt of court when he refused to comply with orders of the Flood Tribunal.

40. In December 2001, Fianna Fail TD Ned O’Keefe resigned as a Junior Minister. He had voted on a bill about feeding bonemeal to animals, forgetting to inform the Dail that his family was involved in manufacturing the substance.

41. In October 2001, Fianna Fail Junior Minister Joe Jacob, who was responsible for the Government’s emergency response to nuclear accidents at Sellafield, gave a comical interview on RTE radio that resulted in the Government having to send iodine tablets to every house in the country.

42. In April 2001, Fianna Fail TD Beverly Flynn resigned from the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee. She had lost a libel case that she had taken against RTE, who had correctly reported that she had sold banking products designed to assist tax evaders. After losing the case, she faced a €2million legal bill.

43. In January 2001, former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor was jailed for contempt of court when he refused to comply with orders of the Flood Tribunal.

44. In June 2000, Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor resigned from the Parliamentary Party after he misled an internal party investigation about a donation that he had got. Lawlor was also chair of the Oireachtas Joint Ethics committee.

45. In May 2000, Fianna Fail Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy nominated Hugh O’Flaherty to a £147,000 job as Vice President of the European Investment Bank. O’Flaherty was a former High Court judge who had been forced to resign after a scandal the previous year.

46. In February 2000, Fianna Fail TD Denis Foley resigned from the Parliamentary Party. He had £100,000 in an illegal offshore account. He said that he knew that his account might have been an Ansbacher one, but he had been ‘hoping against hope’ that it was not.

47. In November 1999, Fianna Fail TD John Ellis resigned as chairperson of the Oireachtas Agriculture Committee. He owed money to farmers, he had £250,000 in debts written off by NIB, and Charles Haughey had given him £26,000 of taxpayers cash to settle other debts.

48. In January 1999, former Fianna Fail Minister Padraig Flynn appeared on the Late Late Show on RTE. Now a European Commissioner, Flynn complained about the difficulties of living on ‘just £100,000 a year’ when he had three houses, housekeepers and various cars to maintain. ‘You should try it,’ he added.

49. In June 1995, Celia Larkin lodged £11,743.34 into Fianna Fail leader Bertie Ahern’s bank account. Ahern says that £10,000 sterling of this was actually his own money, part of £50,000 that he had earlier withdrawn from his own account and used to buy £30,000 sterling. However, the bank has no record of selling £30,000 sterling to anybody during that period.

50. In December 1994, Celia Larkin lodged IR£28,772.90 into Fianna Fail leader Bertie Ahern’s bank account. Ahern says that this was £30,000 sterling cash given to him in a briefcase by his soon-to-be landlord, just after he had become Fianna Fail leader and was expected to become Taoiseach However, the amount equates exactly to $45,000 based on bank exchange rates on that date.

With thanks to ...

http://www.unitedpeople.ie/fail.html

http://www.octane.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=48024&highlight=ff%27s+fails

Joey the lips

I did not need reminding but that was interesting. My primary reason for not voteing them is they have lost my trust.

Granted enda kenny does not convince me either but i would rather him than eamonn gilmore.

meglome

Thanks for the post but I have no idea how you couldn't notice just how badly FF fukked up. The people still voting for them must be some special kind of idiots. Sinn Féin may have bull economic policies and dubious links to criminal elements but I'd still happily vote for them over FF.

jmayo

meglome wrote: »

Thanks for the post but I have no idea how you couldn't notice just how badly FF fukked up.

Ehhhh ?
I have noticed how badly they have screwed up.
Check any of my posts over the last 4 years on here to verify that.

I am only trying to remind everyone of the list of f**kups as some seem to have developed amnesia along the lines of one mr martin. :rolleyes:

meglome

jmayo wrote: »

Ehhhh ?
I have noticed how badly they have screwed up.
Check any of my posts over the last 4 years on here to verify that.

I am only trying to remind everyone of the list of f**kups as some seem to have developed amnesia along the lines of one mr martin. :rolleyes:

Sorry you took me up wrong I'm supporting what you said 100%. When I said 'you' it was a collective you, not you.

I won't vote be voting for SF but at least they didn't come around and rob me so they are a step up from FF.

Min

All the parties at the last election saw no end to the boom. I don't think they would have done much better, but one or two parties from the opposition will be in power...then they will have to watch their ratings fall as they like FF will have to implement unpopular decisions.

Remember the opposition also failed us. Look at their manifestos for the 2007 election, none of the parties saw what was coming. They were no wiser just lucky they lost the election.

Monty Burnz

Min wrote: »

Remember the opposition also failed us. Look at their manifestos for the 2007 election, none of the parties saw what was coming. They were no wiser just lucky they lost the election.

Ah yes, the classic "sure the other lot are as bad".

Just tell us you're voting for Fianna Failure come hell or high water and let's be done with it.

Liam Byrne

The list up to 2007 is damning enough, but since then they've sold us out even more, not least shredding €750,000,000 of our money at the end of January when they paid it out, no questions asked, to unguaranteed bondholders.

I questioned this at the time, but there was feck-all media coverage of it because of the Cowen & election fiascos, and then Vincent Browne stuck into Mary Hanafin last night about it.

I've also publicly posted on Facebook that anyone still contemplating voting FF can click the "Remove as Friend" button, because I don't want to be associated with anyone who condones and rewards FF corruption and incompetence.....as small gesture, but a stance nonetheless.

post on another thread but it helps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJwOLX88KH4

jmayo

Min wrote: »

All the parties at the last election saw no end to the boom. I don't think they would have done much better, but one or two parties from the opposition will be in power...then they will have to watch their ratings fall as they like FF will have to implement unpopular decisions.

Remember the opposition also failed us. Look at their manifestos for the 2007 election, none of the parties saw what was coming. They were no wiser just lucky they lost the election.

Can we please deal with facts in this thread and not what ifs and what might have beens ?
Fact is those things happened on fianna fáil's watch.

Fact is ff were in charge for all the screws up prior to 2007 and all the huge disastrous ones post 2007.

BTW did you even bother reading the entire list ?
If you did you would have seen the list of dodgy achievements, the lies, the spin, the unethical behaviour prior to the election of 2007.

DarkJager

Great post man and very interesting. They wouldn't be able to buy a vote off me anyway but the sad thing is, there are imbeciles in this country who will still vote for them tomorrow. For those who are thinking of or are commited to voting FF: do us all a favor and stay at home. .

Min

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Ah yes, the classic "sure the other lot are as bad".

Just tell us you're voting for Fianna Failure come hell or high water and let's be done with it.

It is the truth, all the political parties in the last election believed the boom would continue with an average of around 4% growth in the economy.
I will be voting FF, at least John McGuinness was speaking up about needing reform in the public and civil service which Bertie didn't agree with.

Now all talk about reform.

Pedro K

Copied and pasted the list to my facebook, just in case any of my friends are thinking of voting FF!

meglome

Min wrote: »

It is the truth, all the political parties in the last election believed the boom would continue with an average of around 4% growth in the economy.
I will be voting FF, at least John McGuinness was speaking up about needing reform in the public and civil service which Bertie didn't agree with.

Now all talk about reform.

This isn't about what anyone said, it's about what FF actually did. Even after going down the bubble road there were lot's of things they could have done but they didn't. FF wreck the country and you're still going to vote for them... amazing. Tell you what give me your address as I'm gonna come round and rob your house since you don't seem to mind.

Kristopherus

John McGuinness will have F.A influence for the foreseeable future, Just like FF.

Godge

Min wrote: »

It is the truth, all the political parties in the last election believed the boom would continue with an average of around 4% growth in the economy.
I will be voting FF, at least John McGuinness was speaking up about needing reform in the public and civil service which Bertie didn't agree with.

Now all talk about reform.

John McWho?

Your facts are wrong. Both FG and Labour criticised the 2001 Benchmarking deal as the payouts to public servants under that deal were not sufficiently linked to reform and productivity. In fact, the criticism of the public service benchmarking process was one of the reasons FG did so badly in the 2002 election. Give credit where it is due.

In the last election, all of the parties based their policies on the predictions of the FF-influenced Department of Finance. If you read the article in today's independent on the pending report on that Department, you will see that the failure to stand up to FF/PD is one of the main criticisms of that Department. If only the D/Finance had stood up to be counted in 2007, we mightn't be where we are today but I believe that the central civil service has been working under FF for so long that it has become unable to see the difference between FF's interests and the nation's interests.

jmayo

Min wrote: »

It is the truth, all the political parties in the last election believed the boom would continue with an average of around 4% growth in the economy.
I will be voting FF, at least John McGuinness was speaking up about needing reform in the public and civil service which Bertie didn't agree with.

Now all talk about reform.

So would this be the same john mcguinness that voted support of bertie for taoiseach in 2007, that voted support for brian cowen as taoiseach in 2008 ?

How did john mcguinness vote in the motion of no confidence in a government minister who slandered and then subsequently lied on a sworn affadivit ?

Min

I think some here would like no opposition as SF can't even add two plus two as they would reject the bailout.

jmayo

Min wrote: »

I think some here would like no opposition as SF can't even add two plus two as they would reject the bailout.

I am no fan of Sinn Féin, but try as they did they never came as close to subverting the sovereignty of the state as your crowd of chancers and me féiners have done.

Congratulations your party has dragged all of us into the mire, humiliated us and left us like the beggars of Europe once again.

retalivity

ixtlan

Godge wrote: »

Your facts are wrong. Both FG and Labour criticised the 2001 Benchmarking deal as the payouts to public servants under that deal were not sufficiently linked to reform and productivity. In fact, the criticism of the public service benchmarking process was one of the reasons FG did so badly in the 2002 election. Give credit where it is due.

That's true, especially in FG's case, and the public electorate should really reflect on why FG was wiped out in that election. Was it that we heard only what we wanted to hear?

Godge wrote: »

In the last election, all of the parties based their policies on the predictions of the FF-influenced Department of Finance. If you read the article in today's independent on the pending report on that Department, you will see that the failure to stand up to FF/PD is one of the main criticisms of that Department. If only the D/Finance had stood up to be counted in 2007, we mightn't be where we are today but I believe that the central civil service has been working under FF for so long that it has become unable to see the difference between FF's interests and the nation's interests.

I'm sure that is part of the story but there is some revisionist thinking going on here on FG/Labour's part. If in 2002 FG was worried about the direction of the economy, how could they fail to miss the coming disaster in 2007? The clear answer is that they told everyone what they thought people wanted to hear, despite knowing themselves that cutting stamp duty was absolutely the wrong policy and would fuel the bubble.

Now, I agree that FF are to blame because they were pulling the levers of power, and I am going to vote FG because I generally agree with their current position... BUT... I also see merit in Micheal Martin's comment that the wider parliamentary system failed. That's NOT a reason to vote for FF, but it's something that must be remembered, and the current animosity towards FF even if justified for how they pulled the levers must not mask the fact that all politicians were promoting economic policies that were unsustainable.

Ix.

work

A lady on the radio yesterday said she will vote FF though she does not support them. She is doing this as she knows FG will get in and wants a "strong" opposition, ie SF are incapable and she is voteing to weaken their opposition chances.
Surely this goes against the point of voteing where you should vote for who is most capable (or at least appearing least incapable).
God what a mess!

DarkJager

work wrote: »

A lady on the radio yesterday said she will vote FF though she does not support them. She is doing this as she knows FG will get in and wants a "strong" opposition, ie SF are incapable and she is voteing to weaken their opposition chances.
Surely this goes against the point of voteing where you should vote for who is most capable (or at least appearing least incapable).
God what a mess!

People like her should have their right to vote revoked on the grounds they are too thick to have one.

Min

jmayo wrote: »

I am no fan of Sinn Féin, but try as they did they never came as close to subverting the sovereignty of the state as your crowd of chancers and me féiners have done.

Congratulations your party has dragged all of us into the mire, humiliated us and left us like the beggars of Europe once again.

SF are the biggest embarrassment given what their armed wing did, it is funny that SF reject the bailout when their organisation got many in the past, from nice people like colonel Gaddafi...

flash1080

Who should people vote for so jmayo?

FG supported bailing out the banks.
FG never clamoured for regulations in the banking sector before the recession.
FG have loads of holes in their plans.
FG plan on adding at least 18000 to the dole queues.
FG never complained or warned people about the construction bubble.
FG are funded by developers.
FG are divided about their party "leader".
FG have been lining their pockets with expenses.

Suryavarman

Min wrote: »

SF are the biggest embarrassment given what their armed wing did, it is funny that SF reject the bailout when their organisation got many in the past, from nice people like colonel Gaddafi...

Don't forget they got help with importing guns from the wonderful Charles J. Haughey and Neil Blaney.

baldbear

Fg and FF are different cheeks of the same arse. When FG get in and look at the books we will get shafted, again!

Badabing

Vote Fianna Fail, Fine Gael will not row back any of the cuts even tho they opposed every single one. Labour well all i will say is Joan Burton. Sinn Fein Mary Lou said her blood pressure goes up everytime ff say the heavylifting has been done well Mary lou how about when your crowd shot dead Jerry McCabe and robbed the Northern Bank id say alot of peoples blood pressure went up then.

DarkJager

Badabing wrote: »

Vote Fianna Fail, Fine Gael will not row back any of the cuts even tho they opposed every single one.

And what are FF going to do? Impose even more cuts, neglect job creation and carry on the same old **** they've been doing ever since they've been in Government. Get real and wake up.

Labour well all i will say is Joan Burton.

And your point is?

Sinn Fein Mary Lou said her blood pressure goes up everytime ff say the heavylifting has been done well Mary lou how about when your crowd shot dead Jerry McCabe and robbed the Northern Bank id say alot of peoples blood pressure went up then.

Yeah real mature of you to drag up IRA activities when mentioning SF. Your crowd of imbeciles did a lot more robbing than the IRA - they've robbed an entire country and its people of its dignity, to bail out their crooked developer and banker pals. I really hope you aren't voting tomorrow because you don't have a ****ing clue what you are talking about.

Badabing

DarkJager wrote: »

And what are FF going to do? Impose even more cuts, neglect job creation and carry on the same old **** they've been doing ever since they've been in Government. Get real and wake up.



And your point is?



Yeah real mature of you to drag up IRA activities when mentioning SF. Your crowd of imbeciles did a lot more robbing than the IRA - they've robbed an entire country and its people of its dignity, to bail out their crooked developer and banker pals. I really hope you aren't voting tomorrow because you don't have a ****ing clue what you are talking about.

When you have to curse your post is devalued.

Liam Byrne

Badabing wrote: »

When you have to curse your post is devalued.

The post might be devalued but the facts contained in it still apply.

You're suggesting not voting FG - supposedly "because they won't roll back FF's cuts".

You then say "Vote FF"......because they'll do what, exactly, roll back their own cuts ?

If they won't roll back their own cuts, then your statement re FG is farcical and strawmanning.

andrew cross

work wrote: »

A lady on the radio yesterday said she will vote FF though she does not support them. She is doing this as she knows FG will get in and wants a "strong" opposition, ie SF are incapable and she is voteing to weaken their opposition chances.
Surely this goes against the point of voteing where you should vote for who is most capable (or at least appearing least incapable).
God what a mess!

i dont believe some people ff could s&&t on some people, they would vote for them :eek:

leincar

jmayo wrote: »

Folks as is probably known by a few around here I would be in scr123 band of ABffers.

And I think it is timely to remind voters just why ff should be consigned to the bin tomorrow.

I am not going to ask people to vote for any other particular party, but please just vote.

People died in this country so you could have that privledge and people are dying today in other countries so they can have the privledge you will enjoy tomorrow.
It make only take 30 mins out of your life, but it can make a big difference.
Candidates have been elected on a difference of as few as 5 or 10 votes.

Anyway read the lists and dispair of what was done.
Perhaps someone (Biggins has done alot so far) can put together a more comprehensive list than this.

Banking crisis.
Insolvency of almost our entire indigenous banking sector due to lack of proper regulation by state regulatory authorities.
Anglo, AIB, BOI our three major banks and INBS, EBS two of our major building societies needed the taxpayers to keep them afloat by guaranteeing everything.

Bank Guarantee, NAMA, recapitalisation and nationalisation.
Irish taxpayers made responsible for the bank's debts.
Ultimate Cost still unknown over two years later and taxpayers carrying can for irresponsible government, regulators, dept of finance, bankers and developers.

Anglo has managed to become the world biggest corporate loss maker and the Irish taxpayers are carrying those losses.

IMFand ECB deal, not a bailout but a sell out, to keep our country economically alfoat.

Current Budget Deficit.
Public sector spending vastly increased during bubble, all funded by unsustainable transactional taxes form construction bubble and retail spending.
With bursting of bubble and credit crunch a 20 billion hole left in budget.

Unemployment.
Due to allowing Irish economy turn into one sustained by short term cheap credit, a massive jump in unemployemnt was recorded as cheap credit dries up and construction bubble bursts.
Unemployment jumps by over 200,000
Emigration drastically increases.

Indebtness.
Due to uncontrolled construction bubble, the level of personal debt being carried by Irish citizens in now some of the highest in the world.

Competitiveness.
Irish competitivesness drops as construction bubble made mainstay of economy.
MNCs and indigenous companies close.
e.g Dell pulls out of Limerick.
Irish Sugar Industry sold out due to cock up by coughlan's dept
One can add their own companies here...


The Connected Ones at the top.

• Bankers flee country and claim they can no longer repay their loans.
• Developers declare bankruptcy and/or flee country.
  These would include the same developers who were visitors to ff Galway races tent or invitees to a taoiseach's speeches to British parliament and US Congress.
• Ex regulatory heads from CB and IFSRA resign, but leave with handsome payouts.
• Fás chief resigns with handsome payout after presiding over huge wastage and body riddled with fraud.
• Government ministers, Dáil Ceann Comhairle and non elected senator rack up huge unvouched expenses and refuse to apologise to taxpayers for wastage.
• Government Ministers resign and fail to stand for election, but get huge goodbye handouts from taxpayers.
• ff hangers on and lower lights in the party get appointed to state boards prior to election

Wastage.

• Fás (hundreds of millions at time of full employment)
• Cost overruns Luas, Port Tunnel, Motorways (hundreds of millions)
• HSE ???
• PPARS (150 odd million)
• e-voting (50 odd million)
• bertie bowl (100 odd million)
• expenses ???

Smart Economy

• Myth 1 availability of fast high speed broadband
• Myth 2 availability of high calibre graduates
• Myth 3 our education system

Now the below list only deals with stuff upto 2007 and it makes it even more depressing that people voted for them in 2007.



With thanks to ...

http://www.unitedpeople.ie/fail.html

http://www.octane.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=48024&highlight=ff%27s+fails

This post sir, in my opinion is the finest post of the General Election 2011 sub-forum. Well said.

whacker00

yet another one !!!!:mad:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00&feature=player_embedded

Badabing

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The post might be devalued but the facts contained in it still apply.

You're suggesting not voting FG - supposedly "because they won't roll back FF's cuts".

You then say "Vote FF"......because they'll do what, exactly, roll back their own cuts ?

If they won't roll back their own cuts, then your statement re FG is farcical and strawmanning.

FF have a plan all costed over 4-5 years, my point was that FG opposed every measure in the budget yet they won't reverse any cuts.

Liam Byrne

Where was this plan while they were in power?

Even the brain-dead know that proper maintenance of your brakes avoids the need for emergency maneouvres.

Min

Don't vote FF because Ireland is ranked top 5 in the UN human development index.
FF screwed us so much we are among the most advanced nations on Earth for humans to live.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

The HDI was created to emphasize that people and their capabilities should be the ultimate criteria for assessing the development of a country, not economic growth alone. The HDI can also be used to question national policy choices, asking how two countries with the same level of GNI per capita can end up with such different human development outcomes. For example, the Bahamas and New Zealand have similar levels of income per person, but life expectancy and expected years of schooling differ greatly between the two countries, resulting in New Zealand having a much higher HDI value than the Bahamas. These striking contrasts can directly stimulate debate about government policy priorities.

So we should not vote for FF as their policies have put Ireland among the very best for human development on this planet.
Remember you are only allowed to be negative to FF so don't vote for them. You will be called names if you say you will vote for them and since FF failed us we are top 5 in the world in the human development index.

flash1080

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Where was this plan while they were in power?

Even the brain-dead know that proper maintenance of your brakes avoids the need for emergency maneouvres.

At least FF have a detailed plan now. FG's plan isn't worth the paper it's written on, they've been asked for details and figures but they haven't got any.

Downlinz

flash1080 wrote: »

At least FF have a detailed plan now. FG's plan isn't worth the paper it's written on, they've been asked for details and figures but they haven't got any.

I agree, I've never voted FF before but will tomorrow. They have the strongest plan going forward and I believe voting on that is a constructive vote rather than looking to punish people in anger with my vote. That's a backwards attitude that will get the country nowhere.

eigrod

I hope Ivor Callelly makes it to Cork in time to vote tomorrow.

meglome

flash1080 wrote: »

At least FF have a detailed plan now. FG's plan isn't worth the paper it's written on, they've been asked for details and figures but they haven't got any.

Downlinz wrote: »

I agree, I've never voted FF before but will tomorrow. They have the strongest plan going forward and I believe voting on that is a constructive vote rather than looking to punish people in anger with my vote. That's a backwards attitude that will get the country nowhere.

hehehe.. I could give you detailed response but let's face it you'd need to have been on a different planet to trust FF.

ricero

My first time voting tommorow and it certainly won't be for these ****. After reading the list of wrong doing I feel ashamed For the people who voted for these muppets and I just pray to god my mother and father did not vote for these criminals in suits.

Liam Byrne

flash1080 wrote: »

At least FF have a detailed plan now. FG's plan isn't worth the paper it's written on, they've been asked for details and figures but they haven't got any.

Do you seriously believe a word FF says at this stage ?

Where was this "detailed plan" when they gave Anglo bondholder €750,000,000 on January 31st that they didn't have to because the guarantee had expired ?

Why does this "detailed plan" with a "new FF" still include someone who was disgraced as a liar and a perjurer ?

Does this detailed plan involve robbing me even more to pay off debts of people who gambled but who just happened to have FF connections ?

They can stuff their "plan" up their holes, because it's too late for them to finally try doing stuff properly now.

Azure1

Joey the lips wrote: »

I did not need reminding but that was interesting. My primary reason for not voteing them is they have lost my trust.

Granted enda kenny does not convince me either but i would rather him than eamonn gilmore.

They are all the same just different suits,FF,FG,Labour they are all the frigging same,watch Vincent browne tonight and his interview with Mary Hanafin we are so screwed,never have I put so much time effort and thought into how i am going to use my vote,i am considering parties I would never have voted for b4 based on thier campaign this time round and my circumstances,
I,m so disgusted with the lot of them but i have to vote,who is the best? FG you must be joking Enda Kenny is not a leader and the man to replace Brian Cowen

Liam Byrne

Azure1 wrote: »

,
I,m so disgusted with the lot of them but i have to vote,who is the best? FG you must be joking Enda Kenny is not a leader and the man to replace Brian Cowen

Yeah, because Cowen set SUCH a high standard :rolleyes:

A corpse would have been more useful than that idiot - at least it wouldn't have done as much damage!

Azure1

they are all the same FF,FG,Labour no difference between them,if we continue to vote in the same people how are we going to get different results?
Labour and FG,Enda Kenny sat across from FF in the dail for years,years and if he could not step up to the mark while in opposition how is he now going to lead the country

meglome

Azure1 wrote: »

they are all the same FF,FG,Labour no difference between them,if we continue to vote in the same people how are we going to get different results?
Labour and FG,Enda Kenny sat across from FF in the dail for years,years and if he could not step up to the mark while in opposition how is he now going to lead the country

Hmm the formatting of your post reminds me of some other posters with low post counts. I must be imagining it though.

How sick am I of all this they are all the same rubbish. And I hate to be the one to give you the bad news but the opposition have no ability make policy, only the government does.