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Where are America now?

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13

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    #62
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Get the fcuk out of here! Tell that crap to the Vietnamese. They booted out the French and then the Americans tried their hand at occupying them and got their asses handed to them as well. The Viets don't need any help from anyone, least of all the morons in Washington, to run their country.

    America guarding our "freedoms"!!! don't make me laugh.
    Vietnam was not a united nation when the French were driven out. It was the North supported by Communist China and Russia who did that. The South appealed for defense which is when America stepped in. The so called "Domino Effect" was a big fear.

    You can't go applying 21st Century attitudes to the behaviors of countries in the heat of the Cold War.


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    #63
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    How much oil is in Afghanistan?

    America just wanted control of the opium fields there


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    #64
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Total load of bollox John.

    Iraqis capable of overthrowing their dictator, 2045 maybe.

    Why don't you get a grip and stop making a fool of yourself with this blind hatred of the US.


    Did you get refused for a Green Card due to substance abuse or something?

    And once again criticism of American crimes is dismissed with the pathetic one-size-fits-all paintbrush of "blind hatred of the US" just as criticising Isreali crimes against humanity is dismissed as "anti-semitism" without any rationally thought-out counter argument. We've been down this road before in another thread and you have been hammered with facts and have not refuted any of them. You've thrown back a few generalisations and slapped a few winky-smileys to try and ease out of a debate in which you are clearly out of your depth and simply painting yourself into a corner.

    And no...I don't abuse any substances and was not refused a green card. I am a US passport holder.


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    #65
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    Erica Spicy Chimp wrote: »
    I wouldn't be surprised if America where behind this movement to oust Gaddafi in some way. They really don't give a fúck how many Libyans are killed. Gaddafi has blamed mercenary's from other countrys for starting this. America also have a history of doing things like this. I could be 100% wrong but if there is oil and a leader the yanks dont like it is in their best interests to see him gone. Now they have the perfect time to get him out without upsetting the muslims even more than they already have.
    1. This Libyan uprising is "contagion" from the protests in Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain and Yemen. The US has f-all involvement. If anything they'd like the status quo to remain.
    2. The price of oil has spiked since the Libyan crisis. No exactly in Americas best interests.
    3. If the US wanted Gaddaffi removed they could easily have done it covertly over the past 20 years. That would have lead to the kind of instability that we're seeing now though.


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    #66
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    KerranJast wrote: »
    Vietnam was not a united nation when the French were driven out. It was the North supported by Communist China and Russia who did that. The South appealed for defense which is when America stepped in. The so called "Domino Effect" was a big fear.

    You can't go applying 21st Century attitudes to the behaviors of countries in the heat of the Cold War.

    The South did NOT appeal for defense. The puppet right-wing dictator that the US installed "appealed" for defence because that's what he was told to do.


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    #67
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    How much oil is in Afghanistan?

    FF control of Afghanistan is vital to running an oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian Basin to the sea without it having to traverse Russian or Iranian soil.
    I think it's Unocal who have plans for the pipeline and of course Hamid Karzai is a former Unocal executive and still consults for the oil company.


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    #68
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    The South did NOT appeal for defense. The puppet right-wing dictator that the US installed "appealed" for defence because that's what he was told to do.
    The average South Vietnamese citizen may not have but the Government did (puppet regime or otherwise). Vietnam was a clash between Communist expansion backed by China and Russia and Democratic Paranoia embodied by the US. It was no war of conquest.


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    #69
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    FF control of Afghanistan is vital to running an oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian Basin to the sea without it having to traverse Russian or Iranian soil.
    I think it's Unocal who have plans for the pipeline and of course Hamid Karzai is a former Unocal executive and still consults for the oil company.

    Apparently an alien spaceship crashed there as well and the US want to find it/ rescue their fellow lizards


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    #70
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Apparently an alien spaceship crashed there as well and the US want to find it/ rescue their fellow lizards

    :rolleyes:


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    #71
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    usdebtclock.org

    look at the unfunded liabilities, thats where America is...and it isnt pretty.

    and before ye all go 'this is the wars', the wars are a pinprick on these figures.

    medicare,social services, pensions etc far far outstrip military spending and have done for a long time now...

    the US does not have the money. their unfunded liabilities are on the 100 trillion mark and the total output of the PLANET each year is about 50 trillion.

    you might now understand why governors of some of the states are trying to undo some of the collective bargaining rights....they dont have the money to pay what is already owed never mind future payments.


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    #72
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Apparently an alien spaceship crashed there as well and the US want to find it/ rescue their fellow lizards

    Look pal, just do a bit of informed analysis. History didn't begin in 2001.
    Trace the shenanigans in the Middle East since the breakup of the Soviet Union and the birth of the Caspian nations such as Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkmenistan etc. and don't be so bloody naive as to think that the US occupation of Afghanistan is to do with some fairytale about freedom or terrorism or some sh!t that only a 5 year-old might believe.


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    #73
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    KerranJast wrote: »
    The average South Vietnamese citizen may not have but the Government did (puppet regime or otherwise). Vietnam was a clash between Communist expansion backed by China and Russia and Democratic Paranoia embodied by the US. It was no war of conquest.


    ALL FCUKING WARS ARE WARS OF CONQUEST!!!!!


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    #74
    MajorMax
    Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭MajorMax


    I usually look between Mexico and Canada


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    #75
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Look pal, just do a bit of informed analysis. History didn't begin in 2001.
    Trace the shenanigans in the Middle East since the breakup of the Soviet Union and the birth of the Caspian nations such as Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkmenistan etc. and don't be so bloody naive as to think that the US occupation of Afghanistan is to do with some fairytale about freedom or terrorism or some sh!t that only a 5 year-old might believe.

    So you are claiming that the UN sanctioned a mission in Afghanistan, supported by 43 nations, so an alternative to the btc pipeline could be built? I think lizards are more likely to be honest.


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    #76
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    ALL FCUKING WARS ARE WARS OF CONQUEST!!!!!
    1. Calm down. Stress is bad mkay.
    2. Wars of Independence? Wars have been declared to liberate groups of people. Kosovo is a recent example. True most wars start as conquest and then result in nations going to war to defend their interests or to liberate their allies (WW2).

    We're kind of going of topic here anyway.


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    #77
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So you are claiming that the UN sanctioned a mission in Afghanistan, supported by 43 nations, so an alternative to the btc pipeline could be built? I think lizards are more likely to be honest.

    The UNSC does not have 43 members. It has 15 at any time of which 5 major powers are permanent members. These 5 effectively control it. And bear in mind the US don't even pay much heed to the UN anymore anyway, GW Bush all but dismissing it as an irrelevant nuisance. The attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan did not have a UN mandate.

    So which do you think more likely? That the US are occupying Afghanistan to protect vested interests, or that they actually care about freeing a bunch of Afghans from the Taliban?

    To think the latter is naieve in the extreme, because if that was actually true, then why didn't they save all those Rwandans who were slaughtered? Or Ugandans? Or several other countries where the people live in fear and oppression? Because it's about protecting strategic and economic interests, not saving people from terrorism.


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    #78
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    The UNSC does not have 43 members. It has 15 at any time of which 5 major powers are permanent members. These 5 effectively control it. And bear in mind the US don't even pay much heed to the UN anymore anyway, GW Bush all but dismissing it as an irrelevant nuisance. The attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan did not have a UN mandate.

    So which do you think more likely? That the US are occupying Afghanistan to protect vested interests, or that they actually care about freeing a bunch of Afghans from the Taliban?

    To think the latter is naieve in the extreme, because if that was actually true, then why didn't they save all those Rwandans who were slaughtered? Or Ugandans? Or several other countries where the people live in fear and oppression? Because it's about protecting strategic and economic interests, not saving people from terrorism.

    ISAF has over 40 contributing countries. Most NATO, but others as well.

    I agree that thus isn't about bringing peace and harmony to the people of Afghanistan, but more about taking the fight to the Taliban and other associated islamists in their own back yard. It is also about drawing the extremists out of Pakistan and stopping the very real possibility of a state with nuclear capabilities falling into the hands of a bin laden sympathiser.


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    #79
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I agree that thus isn't about bringing peace and harmony to the people of Afghanistan

    Although, in fairness, I view the improvement in Afghan quality of life to be rather a positive by-product. I know, I know, compassion is probably a bad thing for a soldier to have, but you do have to feel for those poor sods after you meet them and see how they live. It's a 17th Century World which has had mobile 'phones introduced a few years ago. Basic government services won't do them any harm at all.

    NTM


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    #80
    Mr. Spock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Mr. Spock


    I am America, and I am here. Not to worry.


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    #81
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Mr. Spock wrote: »
    I am America, and I am here. Not to worry.

    go away


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    #82
    Proxy
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭Proxy


    Mr. Spock wrote:
    I am America, and I am here.

    Take what you want dude, just be cool, ok?


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    #83
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    ALL FCUKING WARS ARE WARS OF CONQUEST!!!!!


    And wars of liberation...?


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    #84
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Proxy wrote: »
    Take what you want dude, just be cool, ok?

    No, that just annoys them.

    'WELCOME AMERICAN FRIENDS. WE ACCEPT YOU LIBERATING US VERY MUCH.'

    No point trying to get complicated, they don't follow accents well.


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    #85
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mushy wrote: »
    'They' make themselves the last line of defence by interfering in absolutely everything. They should **** right off and sort their own problems before trying to tell everyone else how countries should be run*. Nation full of bullshít is all it is.

    *Countries should not be run the way of dictators!

    'They' have bailed the World out in two world wars. It amazes me how many castigate the US, but use mostly US-produced goods. Kinda like the soccer supporter castigating the British - then cheering on Man U at the weekend. Hypocrites.


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    #86
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mushy wrote: »
    Everybody knows Russia and China are horrible horrible countries....why doesn't the beloved America go invading these countries for the benefit of the people? Oh yes, cos they would get completely annihilated.

    I don't THINK so.........
    Mushy wrote: »
    Yes, Israel, a very good form of democracy alright. They just play the Americans and British for fools.

    It's a democracy. And one that doesn't act the pussy when it comes to defending itself. Good luck to them. Whipped the Arabs not once - but twice.
    Mushy wrote: »
    Yup cos I clearly stated I wanted China as the leading power.

    I had to read that twice. Are you really serious, or trying to wind people up?


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    #87
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Get the fcuk out of here! Tell that crap to the Vietnamese. They booted out the French and then the Americans tried their hand at occupying them and got their asses handed to them as well. The Viets don't need any help from anyone, least of all the morons in Washington, to run their country.

    America guarding our "freedoms"!!! don't make me laugh.

    And what's the other option then? Two world wars speak volumes for their protection of the West. You wouldn't have the freedom of fora like this but for them. What's the old saying - eaten bread is soon forgotten.


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    #88
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Erica Spicy Chimp wrote: »
    I wouldn't be surprised if America where behind this movement to oust Gaddafi in some way. They really don't give a fúck how many Libyans are killed. Gaddafi has blamed mercenary's from other countrys for starting this. America also have a history of doing things like this. I could be 100% wrong but if there is oil and a leader the yanks dont like it is in their best interests to see him gone. Now they have the perfect time to get him out without upsetting the muslims even more than they already have.

    Yeah. You're probably right. America probably caused the earthquake in NZ and the Australian floods as well.:rolleyes:

    Upset the Muslims? Why, oh why is everyone so concerned about getting Muslim's backs up? Who cares if they're upset?


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    #89
    hoorsmelt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 356 ✭✭hoorsmelt


    Well I'd imagine America is still where it's always been, the boundary between the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.


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    #90
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,989 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What would you have us do?

    We invaded Iraq on the back of American Self-Interest and poor intelligence concerning the development of biological weapons. We invaded Afghanistan as a retaliatory strike against the Taliban.

    We're going to invade Libya for Civil War? Call me a bastard but I don't see this happening. For one thing, there are still US Citizens in the country, whom if we provoked the Libyan gov't right now could easily use them as hostages. Theres also the matter of already being in massive debt and involved in 2 foreign theatres already. We - the American People - don't want to be responsible for a third. Let the UN step in. NATO is a Defense treaty organization and it's unlikely it will step in.

    Typical AH Rabble. Go fight your own war if you want something done about it. The Libyan military isn't that impressive. "Where's America?". F*ck off: Where is Ireland. Loud mouths, small hands.


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    #91
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Going by the news reports it looks like there will be zero need for any foreign intervention in Libya, the people look like they're well capable of ousting Gadaffi themselves. I'll give it 5 days tops before we either see Gadaffi on the run to somewhere like Venezuela or tied up on a chair a la Ceausescu and shot.


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