re chavacon

dharn

does anybody know of common problems with chavacon dogs thinking of buying puppy of that breed

andreac

Sorry to inform you, its not a breed.

Have a read of this thread and you will find all you need.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088278

canihave

Hi, we have a 11mth old cavachon and have had no problems with him at all. I have 3 children and he is fantastic with them - I wonder how he has survived this long?? Great little guard dog too, will let us know if there is anyone around the house. The only thing that I am not happy about was he rolled in muck at park last week and we had no choice but to wash it off and he ended up getting all matted - trip to the groomers left him shaved (i so miss his fur). HOpe that helps and best of luck with it.

Groom!

Ok big deep breath. At the risk of being given out to on this forum, here goes.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEASEEEEEEEEE think of adopting a dog. The rescues and pounds are bursting at the seams.

There are fresh appeals every day on all the Animal Shelter websites and Facebook pages. You WILL get an adorable little puppy - who knows it might even be a cross breed similar to what you are looking for. You will get something fluffy in a pound, believe me. And if it's not fluffy when you get it, send me a message and I will make it fluffy for you (free groom on offer here!)

I was out last night and my daughter actually rang me in tears as she looked at dogs on one particular website. I cannot take in any more as we already have 4 dogs.

I know people get a notion into their heads to get a certain "breed" of dog but please reconsider as the situation in Ireland for dogs is just dire at the moment.

I know I will be slated for saying all this but if it saves one dog I don't care.

The Sweeper

Some day, folks will cop on that the problem with backyard-bred crossbreed dogs isn't that we all want you not to have a cute puppy.

It's actually borne of concern for the health and welfare of the dog.

General Health

For the most part, Cavachon dogs are known for having good health and do not suffer from a lot of serious health problems. While a number of purebreds do tend to experience problems with structural and congenital problems, including hip dyslplasia, that is typically not the case with Cavachons. Prospective owners who are concerned about such possible problems should make sure they investigate the parentage thoroughly to be fully aware of any possible health problems. When provided with a good diet, regular checkups and exercise, the Cavachon should do quite well with few health problems at all.

However, it is important to note that Cavachons can inherit health problems that are prevalent in both the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and the Bichon Frise. For example, the leading cause of death in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is Mitral Valve Disease, which can lead to congestive heart failure. If the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel parent had heart problems, then it is likely its Cavachon offspring can inherit such heart problems as well. Bichon Frise, even though considered to be a healthy breed, can suffer from diseases to the immune system, including autoimmune hemolytic anemia, immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, and liver shunts (which can drastically decrease their overall lifespan from 15-20 years to 4-6 years). Even though hybrid dogs, including the Cavachon, are generally healthier than purebred dogs, it is important to make sure that both of the parents are free from genetic health issues before getting a Cavachon puppy.

The Sweeper

...and incidentally the best thing about the above random quote-from-the-web, is that the information is owner-led, so even though there's the hybrid vigour generalisation in there, apparently even BYB puppy buyers recognise that Cavs are a minefield of health problems and thus, everything bred with a Cav has the potentail to be a minefield of health problems...

Toulouse

It's great that you are giving serious thought to the problems that one of these dogs might have but please reconsider buying one of these pups. They are not a pure breed so don't go spending ridiculous amounts of money on a mongrel. It is against IKC rules to cross two pure bred dogs so you can be sure that the people doing this are only in it to line their pockets.

Either go down the correct route and buy a pb Cav or bichon from a reputable breeder or save a life and get a cute crossbreed from the pound or rescue. You can also get pb adult Cavs and Bichons in rescue.

By buying one of these pups you are supporting puppy farmers and backyard breeders who are in it for money. It's time people in Ireland woke up to what buying one of these 'designer' breeds really means for animal welfare and the over-production of dogs in this country.

dharn

i am very open to all suggestions have been looking in dog shelters for such a dog, if anyone knows of something similar in a pound or shelter please let me know, to all the posters of replies thanks for your help, my neighbour adopted a bischon but the red tape and inspections were worse than if you were adopting a child !

Groom!

Ok boardsies, let's find this man a dog!

Angelmangle

Try one of the breed rescue societies, you can get a list on irishanimals.ie if you want a pure breed cav or bichon but they turn up regularly enough in resuce shelters as well.

Please consider getting a rescue, they are the most wonderful doggies and its something you can be proud of doing and something that you will never regret

The homechecks are so stringent because they want to get the best possible homes for their dogs, they don't want them to end up back in shelters again so they have to be sure about the home they send them to.

carraghsgem

http://www.meath.ie/LocalAuthorities/Environment/DogPound-Meath/DogsCurrentlyinMeathDogPound/

toadfly

dharn wrote: »

i am very open to all suggestions have been looking in dog shelters for such a dog, if anyone knows of something similar in a pound or shelter please let me know, to all the posters of replies thanks for your help, my neighbour adopted a bischon but the red tape and inspections were worse than if you were adopting a child !

What area are you in OP or are you willing to travel?

toadfly

OP Dogs in Distress have a Pug/Cavalier female cross pup, Cork Dog Action Welfare Group have a Bichon, Wicklow Animal Welfare have a Jack Russell/Yorkshire Terrier female.

All taken from http://www.irishanimals.ie

Loads of pups/dogs in shelters/pounds that would suit your situation.

Hellrazer

Can the regulars please stop preaching to users asking genuine questions about these mixed breeds/mongrels or whatever you want to refer to them as.


Im sick to my teeth of these "get a rescue" responses everytime someone mentions a labradoodle/rothrussel or whatever.

It is putting users off the forum.

Im going to discuss this with the other mods and see what their view is on it.

Two threads in two days ruined by the whole " get a rescue" brigade.

Enough is enough.

Groom!

If the situation was not so desperate in all the rescues, people would not be "preaching" as you call it.

This thread is not ruined...the OP has actually expressed an interest in getting a rescue dog due to the responses and advice and suggestions he got here.

I firmly believe people need to be educated about these so called breeds.

And I know I will get a ban for this post. But it will be worth it.

zoby

it may put people off the forum - but i wish i had access to the information that i have read on here about puppy farms etc when i went to get a dog five years ago.


In total ignorance i handed over money to a puppy farmer


It may not be what you want to hear when you have been trawling through done deal and the likes looking at cute "designer" breeds but a lot (not all) of these breeds are being bred for money with no regard for potential health problems.



To answer the op question about Cavachons, i have a Bichon and a Cavalier and would imagine that a cross breed of my two would be a wonderful loving pet. Both have wonderful temperaments albeit on opposite sides of the spectrum my Bichon is full of energy but cannot stand to be left alone whereas my Cavalier is the laziest hungriest dog i have ever met. Both are loving happy dogs when they are walked daily. A day or two is fine but any longer than that without exercise makes for cranky, bored and destructive dogs.


As for health problems i would look into both breeds and be prepared. Cavaliers are well documented to have lots of health problems (my girl is no exception as was my first Cavalier) whereas Bichons tend to have skin problems.

Hellrazer

Groom! wrote: »

If the situation was not so desperate in all the rescues, people would not be "preaching" as you call it.

I agree that the situation is desperate but personally Ive had nothing but trouble with fooked up dogs Ive rehomed from rescues--aggression,fear--one of them was just nuts.

This thread is not ruined...the OP has actually expressed an interest in getting a rescue dog due to the responses and advice and suggestions he got here.

But why does it have to be the same old crap--and its not just with so called hybrids--its the same when users mention pedigrees--"dont buy X get a rescue"
For some people rescues are not practical and in my case Id never ever rescue a dog again.

I firmly believe people need to be educated about these so called breeds.

Educate--dont preach or opinion ram.

And I know I will get a ban for this post. But it will be worth it.

Why would I ban you for this?If you want to I will but thats at your request.

The Sweeper

Hellrazer, there's a huge difference between someone asking 'where can I get a pedigree dog' and someone asking 'where can I buy an -oodle mix because I want a small-white-fluffy to be a good dog at home with my kids'.

The latter is, absolutely 100%, what fuels puppy factories and irresponsible breeding by backyard breeders.

I work with a girl who drove 300kms to collect a labradoodle puppy, walked onto a puppy farm property where she said the conditions were feral and there were actual dead dogs in plain sight, was handed a sick pup covered in its own liquid faeces, and still handed over a thousand dollars for that puppy because she felt like she couldn't leave it there.

'Designer dogs' are a massive, massive problem. They're a massive contributor to why our pounds are overflowing with dogs, young and old, who'll be put to sleep without a chance of rehoming. BYB dogs are filling homes where owners would previously go to the pound for a cute mutt.

Rescue dogs can come with problems, but they also come with no problems at all.

The best case scenario in the future is that everyone who wants a pedigree dog can buy one from an ethical breeder at a reasonable price and that dog will have been properly health tested and raised at home and under foot - the flip side is the pound will only contain 'oops' litters, genuine accidents, and our PTS rate will drop to only dogs that show aggression or severe illness.

But if you, the forum mod, start telling posters on this forum that you're "sick to your teeth" of hearing the message that's core to stopping backyard breeders and puppy farmers, what bloody hope have we at all?

Hellrazer

The Sweeper wrote: »

Hellrazer, there's a huge difference between someone asking 'where can I get a pedigree dog' and someone asking 'where can I buy an -oodle mix because I want a small-white-fluffy to be a good dog at home with my kids'.

The latter is, absolutely 100%, what fuels puppy factories and irresponsible breeding by backyard breeders.

I work with a girl who drove 300kms to collect a labradoodle puppy, walked onto a puppy farm property where she said the conditions were feral and there were actual dead dogs in plain sight, was handed a sick pup covered in its own liquid faeces, and still handed over a thousand dollars for that puppy because she felt like she couldn't leave it there.

'Designer dogs' are a massive, massive problem. They're a massive contributor to why our pounds are overflowing with dogs, young and old, who'll be put to sleep without a chance of rehoming. BYB dogs are filling homes where owners would previously go to the pound for a cute mutt.

Rescue dogs can come with problems, but they also come with no problems at all.

The best case scenario in the future is that everyone who wants a pedigree dog can buy one from an ethical breeder at a reasonable price and that dog will have been properly health tested and raised at home and under foot - the flip side is the pound will only contain 'oops' litters, genuine accidents, and our PTS rate will drop to only dogs that show aggression or severe illness.

But if you, the forum mod, start telling posters on this forum that you're "sick to your teeth" of hearing the message that's core to stopping backyard breeders and puppy farmers, what bloody hope have we at all?

Sweeper see my response in the off topic thread.
Im all with the opinion that every dog should be a rescue until the supply is exhausted but cmon its never ever going to happen is it??

Youre quoting me incorrectly aswell--My issue is that Im sick of some users telling everyone that asks "Where can I get an "x" puppy" to go get a rescue.In an ideal world by all means but when someone has a specific breed(or non breed) in their head these responses fall on deaf ears and in my opinion can actually drive these people to puppy farms.
If people were to recommend reputable breeders of either pedigrees or hybrids then these people wouldnt buy the dog from donedeal / gumtree etc.

Groom!

Thank you The Sweeper. I could not have worded that better myself.

I think it is an insult to all the volunteers and rescue groups for the Forum Moderator to come on and say he is sick of reading all the "same old crap".

Have you any idea the work these people do and the unsung sacrifices they make, both financially and otherwise ???

This is a discussion forum, not a dictatorship.

And I was not "opinion ramming" or "preaching" in my earlier posts. The OP was quite happy to look into getting a cross breed from a rescue after seeing the responses here.

So there is one more person educated for starters, and potentially one more dog rescued, thanks to us all "ramming our opinions, preaching and talking crap".

That's a good enough result for me.

Hellrazer

Groom! wrote: »

I think it is an insult to all the volunteers and rescue groups for the Forum Moderator to come on and say he is sick of reading all the "same old crap".

Again misquoted.My issue is not with recommending rescues but recommendeing them every single time someone post about where to get a new dog.

Have you any idea the work these people do and the unsung sacrifices they make, both financially and otherwise ???

Of course--Ive been involved with rescues for years.

This is a discussion forum, not a dictatorship.

Pity some of the users who keep banging on about "get a rescue,get a rescue" wouldnt live by that statement.

And I was not "opinion ramming" or "preaching" in my earlier posts.

Well then why did your post start with "at the risk of being given out to...."

The OP was quite happy to look into getting a cross breed from a rescue after seeing the responses here.

But the op even stated that "the red tape and inspections were worse than if you were adopting a child ! "
This to me is a big problem that rescues need to cut down on.Its off putting for people willing to try a rescue dog.

So there is one more person educated for starters, and potentially one more dog rescued, thanks to us all "ramming our opinions, preaching and talking crap".

That's a good enough result for me.

Lets just see if the OP rescues a dog.Ive a feeling that they wont and will buy one from somewhere.

andreac

But where these so called designer breeds are concerned, there are no reputable breeders as these deisgner breeds are bred by byb's and puppy farmers so i will always warn people of the risks of buying these so called breeds as most people that come on asking and enquiring about them havent a clue what actually goes on when and how they are being bred.

dharn

i really have opened up a can of worms here great ,to see so many well intentioned posters on both sides, but im afraid to have to admit that my wife and daughter went off and bought a cavchon female eight weeks old chipped and vaccinated for 250 euro , they told me it came from a very caring owner i was annoyed that the decision was made so quickly so thats the end of the story, sorry to have wasted your time ,( but maybe not ) other readers can see the post and hopefully someone will be directed towards a rescue or shelter which was my preference

The Sweeper

Hellrazer wrote: »

Sweeper see my response in the off topic thread.

...okaaaay, but I'm unsure why this discussion would even be in off-topic tbh.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im all with the opinion that every dog should be a rescue until the supply is exhausted but cmon its never ever going to happen is it??

It certainly isn't going to happen with that sort of defeatist attitude. Personally I'll keep on about rescues, ethical breeding, and the consumerist evils of backyard and factory pet production until I'm blue in the face because I believe in this, and I don't see why I should shut up about it because you're bored and you think it's never going to happen.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Youre quoting me incorrectly aswell--My issue is that Im sick of some users telling everyone that asks "Where can I get an "x" puppy" to go get a rescue.

I'm not quoting you incorrectly. I'm responding to precisely what you posted, which was that you were bored of the regulars preaching 'get a rescue' when someone asked about a mongrel, and that you were going to discuss it with your fellow mods. Your first post on this thread didn't have the specific things you've since disclosed that you're irritated by and frankly feels like a kneejerk response.

Hellrazer wrote: »

In an ideal world by all means but when someone has a specific breed(or non breed) in their head these responses fall on deaf ears and in my opinion can actually drive these people to puppy farms.

Well in my opinion, ignorance is the only thing that drives people to puppy farms. You forget about all the other posters who read but never post - if even one of those posters decides to look up puppy farms for themselves, and never go to one, that's one more success in my opinion.

Anyone who'd go to a puppy factory out of spite because they were told not to on the internet, and would persist in making a purchase against the evidence in front of their own eyes (and noses) - those people were beyond help in the first place.

Hellrazer wrote: »

If people were to recommend reputable breeders of either pedigrees or hybrids then these people wouldnt buy the dog from donedeal / gumtree etc.

Some people are in a position to recommend a reputable breeder, most are not - and even those who are can't recommend one for every breed. That's what the breed registries and clubs are for. And the supplementary information in this forum about how to tell whether or not a breeder is ethical - that's helpful to users.

I understand that you may be irritated by the lack of allowance given to people's right to make a personal choice about the kind of dog they want, and personally I don't at all think that all pedigree dogs are a bad waste of money and so on. If someone wants a certain size, shape, temperament and colour in a dog, that's fine - all I ask is that they do the appropriate research, educate themselves about what best practice involves in purchasing a puppy, so on, so forth.

As for recommending a rescue instead - a lot of people don't realise you get purebred dogs in rescue. A lot of folks think pounds are full of mongrels, and don't understand that there are a LOT of pure breeds that go through the pounds, for the same reason all dogs go through the pounds - more work than the owner expected, changes of circumstances, strong personalities that the owner isn't equipped to deal with, destructive behaviours, so on, so forth.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with rescue - so have I, to be honest, with the one dog I rescued (cats are all good) - but my experience has educated me and won't put me off rescuring again.

To me, there is no more ignorant human being than someone who allows two small, fluffy, unpapered dogs to mate in the hope that they can make a few hundred quid apiece on the pups and use that money in these poor economic times. My personal experience of these people is that they quickly become fond of the money and lose consideration for the dog. They may not be John Boland with 700 breeding bitches, but they tend to allow their dog have litter after litter, sell the pups earlier and earlier with no vaccinations and have no consideration for the condition of the bitch and her potential for cancer and pyometra.

I work with a young midwife who does precisely that with her ****zu and her poodle, selling the pups as 'schmoodles'. Her bitch has had a litter every season for the last four seasons, and she sells the pups at $400 apiece, aged seven weeks. And she a midwife.

I've learned most people make no connection between their personal actions and the bigger problem of unwanted domestic pets. They don't understand that every BYB -oodle they buy encourages the owner to breed another litter of BYB -oodles. They don't understand that every BYB -oodle they buy is another death row pound dog put to sleep.

Against that backdrop, I find your first response on this thread to be extremely disheartening, and your subsequent efforts to defend your position to be more disheartening.

It's about the animals. It's not about you.

Cherry Blossom

dharn wrote: »

i really have opened up a can of worms here great ,to see so many well intentioned posters on both sides, but im afraid to have to admit that my wife and daughter went off and bought a cavchon female eight weeks old chipped and vaccinated for 250 euro , they told me it came from a very caring owner i was annoyed that the decision was made so quickly so thats the end of the story, sorry to have wasted your time ,( but maybe not ) other readers can see the post and hopefully someone will be directed towards a rescue or shelter which was my preference

OP - An 8 week old puppy won't have all it's vaccinations, if you have been given a vaccination card signed by a vet you will need to check that this is actually authentic first of all, if so you will need the second injection in 2 weeks. If you have no record of the vacc it's best to get the first vacc again as it's likely this didn't happen at all. Also get the vet to check the microchip as these 'designer' dogs are often registered with Canine Ireland so the seller has an excuse to advertise them as 'registered'. This means they also have a Canine Ireland microchip which basically can't be tracked to anyone and shows up as a non-existant number on the databases vets and rescues use.

Hellrazer

andreac wrote: »

But where these so called designer breeds are concerned, there are no reputable breeders as these deisgner breeds are bred by byb's and puppy farmers so i will always warn people of the risks of buying these so called breeds as most people that come on asking and enquiring about them havent a clue what actually goes on when and how they are being bred.

Thats a very generalising statement to make.There are reputable breeders out there ok maybe not in Ireland striving to get some of these hybrids recognised.

How do you think other pedigrees came about?
It was over generations of interbreeding other pedigrees.

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

Thats a very generalising statement to make.There are reputable breeders out there ok maybe not in Ireland striving to get some of these hybrids recognised.

How do you think other pedigrees came about?
It was over generations of interbreeding other pedigrees.

First you upset the rescue's & now the breeder's of Ireland !.

No reputable breeder would use a Cavalier. No informed person would buy a hybrid bred from a Cavalier. Many posters here are trying to inform & advise. Their concern may be born from seeing a Cavalier who's brain is too big for it's skull. The brain presses on the protrusions in the skull & the dog suffers terribly.

Yes breeders did cross breed & we have GSD's that can barely walk & Sharpei's covered in ulcers, etc etc as a result.

EGAR

Exactly, breeding over generation with knowledge of genetics and the final goal envisioned. NOT crossing two breeds, giving them a fancy name and Bob's your uncle all the way to the bank!

I have refrained from posting on these threads so far but can no longer sit on my hands.

All you all know EGAR is primarily a Bull Breed/Horse rescue but the amount of *designer * breeds reaching even the depth of rural Galway (and trust me I live in the a*sehole of nowhere) is staggering.

Just before Xmas I had a call from such a *breeder* and got landed with 4 Yorkiechon or whatever she called them. A few weeks later and Mommy landed here as well. And that isn't an isolated case either. And guess what, once they are in rescue they are no longer precious *designer breeds* - they are just mutts in need of rescue .

Hellrazer, I have always valued your input here but I feel that your bad experience with rescue dogs has slightly clouded your judgement.

I could easily take offence to some of the things you posted about rescue dogs but I didn't I sat on my hands until now.

EGAR

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/13/inventors-idea-regret

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/pets/story/index.html?id=285174


Not such a happy happy world after all!

Hellrazer

Sweeper Im responding to most of your post here.Anything that Ive not responede to Ive already answered in the off topic thread.

The Sweeper wrote: »

It certainly isn't going to happen with that sort of defeatist attitude. Personally I'll keep on about rescues, ethical breeding, and the consumerist evils of backyard and factory pet production until I'm blue in the face because I believe in this,

And thats your right to do that as you wish.

and I don't see why I should shut up about it because you're bored and you think it's never going to happen.

Im not bored with Im sick of it being the only agenda that some users use in every single reply to someone looking for a dog.

I understand that you may be irritated by the lack of allowance given to people's right to make a personal choice about the kind of dog they want, and personally I don't at all think that all pedigree dogs are a bad waste of money and so on. If someone wants a certain size, shape, temperament and colour in a dog, that's fine - all I ask is that they do the appropriate research, educate themselves about what best practice involves in purchasing a puppy, so on, so forth.

Youve nailed my view on it in one paragraph.

As for recommending a rescue instead - a lot of people don't realise you get purebred dogs in rescue. A lot of folks think pounds are full of mongrels, and don't understand that there are a LOT of pure breeds that go through the pounds, for the same reason all dogs go through the pounds - more work than the owner expected, changes of circumstances, strong personalities that the owner isn't equipped to deal with, destructive behaviours, so on, so forth.

But the way some resues go on you`d think these dogs were the best things since sliced bread...they can be then again you can get a nut job like I did on 3 occasions.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with rescue - so have I, to be honest, with the one dog I rescued (cats are all good) - but my experience has educated me and won't put me off rescuring again.

Well its put me off--It was devastating for me and the kids to loose a dog after 2 days and devastating to loose one to horrific injuries.

Against that backdrop, I find your first response on this thread to be extremely disheartening, and your subsequent efforts to defend your position to be more disheartening.

Sorry if you feel that way but I was telling my experience first hand so how can that be disheartening?Is it because I put across a different take on rescues?

The Sweeper

@ Hellrazer - no, it wasn't your take on rescues I was disheartened by. It was the tone and message I took (note I took, not necessarily that you deliberately gave), in your post.

I read your post (obviously not literally) as "FFS, you lot who push rescues and counsel against mongrels, would you ever shut up, if someone wants an -oodle they can have one, what's so bad about them anyway, I'm sick of you telling people who come in here looking for an -oodle that it's a bad choice because it puts people off the forum, and I'm going to talk about it with my fellow mods, possibly with a view to amending the charter to stop you bringing it up".

Felt like a bit of a kick in the guts tbh. Individual oodles may be great dogs, but the overwhelming effect of the rise in oodle popularity is, as already discussed, detrimental to animal welfare across the board. Any implication from a forum mod that it's somehow done to death and we should stop talking about it - that disheartens me.

koneko

FWIW, cross breeds are great, but mixing two designer breeds for a designer puppy made up breed is a terrible terrible idea. These people are generally just in it for the money and do not consider the future, or the health of these pups. For all you know the mother and father are both riddled with health issues.
As far as I understand both the Cavalier and Bichon are prone to certain health, mixing two breeds isn't going to give you some automatically superior "best of both worlds" dog, it'll give you a dog that can end up with the health problems from both sides

Anyway, I hope your puppy is healthy and always stays healthy, and that your daughter and wife realise what a commitment a dog is and don't take these decisions so lightly in future.

I also hope that a lot of other people will look at the dogs in rescues and take in a dog that needs a home, without taking other people's bad experiences to heart and assume the dog must be "bad" somehow to end up in a pound/shelter