Ripped up my polling card. Not voting

MaceFace

hinault wrote: »

You don't vote then you will have no right to whinge about political decisions taken in the new Dail

That is a little arrogant.
There are many people who do not vote for a large number of reasons:

1. They don't feel like they know enough about the candidates to vote
2. They don't see it as making any difference
3. They can't vote for personal reasons
4. They abhor politics
5. They don't want to vote

People should not just have the freedom to vote but should also have the freedom to not vote if they so choose.

They are still citizens of this country and are entitled to express their opinion on any matter they so choose.

The Rooster

Personally I think not voting because "all the candidates are useless or the same" is just pure laziness.

We can't all have Nelson Mandela or Gandhi or Obama or whoever you think might be a fantastic candidate.

I'm pretty sure every single constituency has a wide range of candidates, and there's bound to be one or two who lean closer to your beliefs than the rest. If you did care enough to make the effort to find out what they're all about. The "none of the above" option touted by some is just a cop out too. If you like a person, vote for him/her, if you like a party vote for their candidate, if you don't like any of the main parties vote for a small party or an independent.

But there are plenty of people who shouldnt vote, and thankfully most of them are the ones who don't. So absolutely you should never brow beat somebody into voting. Someone who thinks its cool to brag about ripping up their voting card is dead right not to vote.

Zubeneschamali

MaceFace wrote: »

They are still citizens of this country and are entitled to express their opinion on any matter they so choose.

Sure, but I don't have to listen. Anyone who won't vote doesn't count.

Literally.

MaceFace

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Sure, but I don't have to listen. Anyone who won't vote doesn't count.

Literally.

And I suppose you think anyone who voted for FF or Greens in the last election shouldn't be able to express their annoyance at the current government?

MaceFace

The Rooster wrote: »

Personally I think not voting because "all the candidates are useless or the same" is just pure laziness.

We can't all have Nelson Mandela or Gandhi or Obama or whoever you think might be a fantastic candidate.

I'm pretty sure every single constituency has a wide range of candidates, and there's bound to be one or two who lean closer to your beliefs than the rest. If you did care enough to make the effort to find out what they're all about. The "none of the above" option touted by some is just a cop out too. If you like a person, vote for him/her, if you like a party vote for their candidate, if you don't like any of the main parties vote for a small party or an independent.

But there are plenty of people who shouldnt vote, and thankfully most of them are the ones who don't. So absolutely you should never brow beat somebody into voting. Someone who thinks its cool to brag about ripping up their voting card is dead right not to vote.

Here is an example. Take my constituency, Kildare North: http://www.thejournal.ie/election-candidates-2011/kildare-north/

I have a choice of FF, FG, Labur, Greens, SF and a bunch of independents.
There are many reasons not to vote each of these.

The independent choices are:
Michael Beirne: Never heard anything of this guy. No real web presence to find out more. No vote if you don't make an effort.
Eric Doyle Higgins: Ex FF which has sent some bizarre material through the door (will not canvass or have clinics etc). No way if you don't make an effort.
Bart Murphy: Owned construction company through the boom. Sorry, no vote for you.
Catherine Murphy: Just a Labour wannabe. Too left leaning.

So, often when you look at the independents in your area, you find they are woefully unqualified or have zero policies apart from "mixing it up a bit". The occassional may have serious policies, but not the ones you agree with.

If you are fundamentally against paying the bank bond holders out of soverign funds, and want a right leaning person/party, you have NO options.

So, the advise of many is to give your vote to the person you don't want the least :rolleyes:

Zubeneschamali

MaceFace wrote: »

And I suppose you think anyone who voted for FF or Greens in the last election shouldn't be able to express their annoyance at the current government?

I'm delighted to have them express their annoyance, as long as they don't make the same mistake again!

Zubeneschamali

MaceFace wrote: »

So, the advise of many is to give your vote to the person you don't want the least

No candidate or party is going to exactly reflect your views, but some are worse than others. So rate them from bad to worst, and then vote for them in that order.

Gregor Samsa

zig wrote: »

I think voting should be compulsory with a none of the above option.

You'd probably end up with a load of people voting like this

CANDIDATE A: 1

CANDITATE B: 2

CANDICATE C: 3

NONE OF THE ABOVE: 4


I don't agree with the notion that citizens of a Republic should be forced to vote. People should be able to abstain if they want - it's a legitimate form of protest used within parliaments, so it should be afforded to those who choose parliaments too - regardless of it's ultimate effectiveness. The right to vote was hard fought for, not the obligation to vote.

Personally, I'd never not vote, simply because I don't think it's a very effective form of protest unless it's organised on a massive scale. I've spoilt many votes in the past, and probably will in the future (at least they get counted). Won't be doing it this time, though.

Maj Malfunction

MaceFace wrote: »

That is a little arrogant.

I disagree

1. They don't feel like they know enough about the candidates to vote

Did they not go out of their way to read about their policies and inform themselves? Do they expect to be spoonfed?

2.They don't see it as making any difference

If you don't vote, you can't change anything, you will have made no difference, everything is still the same.

3. They can't vote for personal reasons

This makes no sense at all!

4. They abhor politics

I abhor the current government, so I'll vote to change things and make a difference.

5. They don't want to vote

Its a free democratic country, you have the right to exercise your vote or not.

If people don't vote they are saying they have no opinion or don't care how the country is run.

Its the same as saying I've no opinion on:

Tax increases.
Unemployment.
Emigration.
Health cuts.
Social Welfare cuts.
EU/IMF.
Foreign Policy.

So hypothetically speaking you'd have no opinion if Social Welfare was cut to €80 per week and Taxes were increased to 50% to pay for the interest rates imposed on us by the EU/IMF? If you got sick your medical card didn't cover the first €160 of monthly expenses, even if you were unlucky to end up on the Dole. You would hardly be happy or be even prepared to accept such things happening and would probably be exercising your democratic right to protest and march!

At least on Friday 25th you do have a choice and to decide how your country will be run and governed.

coffee_cake

I have no idea who to vote for, but i'd vote just to make sure FF don't get back in.

That's if I can vote, my card is presumably gone to my old address whose local stations I won't be able to get to on friday

dudara

I'll be out of the country on Friday, so I can't vote. I'm actually disappointed by this - I always vote and I feel somewhat disenfranchised by not being able to vote.

The Rooster

MaceFace wrote: »

If you are fundamentally against paying the bank bond holders out of soverign funds, and want a right leaning person/party, you have NO options.

Well that's a good point about there being so few (if any) right wing independents. That's a whole other debate as to why.

If you are asking me who you should vote for, I think you have two choices. Go with FG as being the closest to your political beliefs, bar the one big issue - and make an effort to get your view across to them (if loads of their TDs are hearing the same story perhaps they might consider other options).

Alternatively vote for Sinn Fein on a one-off basis, to highlight this one issue is so important to you, even though SF are widely different to what you believe in. But at the very best they'd be minority members of the government so any of their really looney policies won't see the light of day, but they might just get FG to reconsider the bonds issue if they're in government with them.

So while you haven't got the perfect option, you certainly do have an option.

panda100

I stupidly moved back my vote from Dublin Central to my home town of Rathkeale in West Limerick, last year. Really, really stupid mistake as there is absolutely no one to vote for. There all rights wingers, even the independents, so I will just have to spoil my vote, come Friday.

I completely and utterly disagree that If you don't vote, you do have a say in how the country should be goverened. That maybe the case in Dublin,where there is a wide array of candidates to vote for, but in some constituencies, theres no real choice.In Limerick county we have 3 FG, 2 FF, 1 Labour and 1 independent. The independent is just a wannabee Fianna Failer. Fianna Gael has pretty much the same policies as Fianna Fail. James Heffernan of Labour has no history of activism in the area, except for being involved in GAA a bit.

I'l be damned If people tell me I have no right to complain about the next government, just because I come from an area where there is no choice in the voting booth. There is more ways to have your say about government policy's then ticking a box every five years.

Grouse67

Very very sad, people protesting and dying all over the world looking for a vote and a huge % of us in Ireland just won’t bother

Maj Malfunction

panda100 wrote: »

I will just have to spoil my vote, come Friday

Your full list of candidates is as follows: - http://www.boards.ie/vote/constituency.php?c_id=30

Nevermind how each candidate is active in the constituency! How the heck can we move on as a COUNTRY if we can't see beyond the PARISH! :mad::mad:

Drumpot

melekalikimaka wrote: »

voting for the sake of it is irresponsible voting too



but by voting your accepting more than that in a person, I understand completely why some would rather not vote, personally I am voting but I think its better not to vote unless you believe in the candidate, anything else its silly, this ' we earned our right to vote' crap is riduculous, yes we earned it but clearly we didnt read the manual on how to use it and when to use it.

you dont have to be a brain surgeon to look at the politicians vying for your vote and choosing the one who represents your beliefs most . .

I dont think its actually DEBATABLE as to whether or not refusing to vote abdicates any responsibility that your government does (right or wrong).

Not voting is a right, but its a right of ignorance in my view (that I am entitled to believe). Where once I was blind to the power of voting, now I see the damage of ignoring my responsibility as a voter.

Not voting in any way is ignorant at the very least. You are ignoring your responsibility as a citizen of Ireland to try to get the most representitive government into power. Not just that, its out of plain old laziness that people dont vote. Like I said, its not rocket science to vote for the least worst politician as if thats the best you can hope for its better then not even bothering to try.

That aside, I personally think a person who is choosing that they dont have a preferance should at least vote and put Ireland at the bottom of their voting card and a tick beside it. As far as I understand spoiled votes are counted and if the 30%-40% of non voters spoiled their votes it would at the very least grab the attention of one party (or potential new party) to try and implement real change to accomodate these people who are so dissalusioned with politics in Ireland.

In closing, everybodys entitled to do what they want in terms of voting. Its also fair to say everybodys entitled to give their opinion on whether or not voting is a privalege that should always be excercised. Needless to say I believe not voting is simply down to laziness and ignorance. You dont need to be intelligent to work out who represents your principles the most. With that in mind, at the very least you do yourself a disservice by not having your voice heard when you actually get the opportunity that the likes of Egypt and Libya citizens are currently fighting for. Shame on you.

Drumpot

MaceFace wrote: »

That is a little arrogant.

There are many people who do not vote for a large number of reasons:

1. They don't feel like they know enough about the candidates to vote
2. They don't see it as making any difference
3. They can't vote for personal reasons
4. They abhor politics
5. They don't want to vote

People should not just have the freedom to vote but should also have the freedom to not vote if they so choose.

They are still citizens of this country and are entitled to express their opinion on any matter they so choose.

People do have the right not to vote, but not voting isnt expressing any opinion. How does anybody know what "non voters" are actually saying ?

And the non voters have just as much power as the people who vote. If you allow somebody else to decide who will run the country you cannot sit on the fence and moan when it all goes wrong because you are just as responsible for not voting for a differant government as the people who voted in the existing government. Put simply, if you dont vote, you are voting for the government in power as you have done nothing to prevent them getting in.


Everybody will moan when things go wrong, but non voters have nobody else to blame but themselves. Since they did nothing to try to improve our government in anyway, I take what they say with little importance as they chose to ignore their responsibility. Rememeber, if you have a child, a parent, a friend who has lost something because of decisions made by government, you did nothing to prevent it and did nothing to help an alternative government protect them.

Not voting makes a huge differance. Supposedly 65% of people eligible to vote, did so in the last election. I think FF got 40% of that vote, this represented 26% of the voting population of Ireland. How is that in anyway representitive of the entire country ? Not doing anything, does not absolve non voters of blame or responsibility. Personally I think voting should be compulsary (even if you can spoil your vote) as I believe its not just a privalege of everybody of the state, its a national collective responsibility to make sure that your voice is heard.

MaceFace

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

I disagree
Did they not go out of their way to read about their policies and inform themselves? Do they expect to be spoonfed?If you don't vote, you can't change anything, you will have made no difference, everything is still the same.This makes no sense at all! I abhor the current government, so I'll vote to change things and make a difference.Its a free democratic country, you have the right to exercise your vote or not.

I would like to think I am very informed on the issues and watch a couple of hours of current affairs a night. I have to say though, it is hard going.
There is a tremendous amount of spoofing, lying, name calling, mud slinging, harranging, ignoring, and avoiding within the campaign.

I done a detailed scan of the Labour manifesto and I think it is a load of tosh. I have no doubt it would be the same for others. But, this is what you are expecting people to do - read the manifestos, study the policies, and inform themselves of the reality.

The truth is that once the election is over on Friday, some of the stuff in the manifestos will make it into the program for government, but most will be ignored. There will be a whole raft of new cuts and taxes that we never knew about and deals agreed between the government and third parties on our behalf that we have absolutely no say in.
Kenny said he would close down Anglo by the end of the year, and not another red cent will go into the banks that is not already committed.
This is complete fiction. He may rename Anglo, but it still will exist as a separate entity.

So, what we are voting on is the propaganda each party is spewing at us and we are trying our hardest to first of all see which we agree with and then to understand how much of it is based in reality.
That is a hell of a lot of work for anyone, let alone people who have no interest in politics (and lets be honest, the only reason we are here is because we do enjoy it).

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

If people don't vote they are saying they have no opinion or don't care how the country is run.

Its the same as saying I've no opinion on:

Tax increases.
Unemployment.
Emigration.
Health cuts.
Social Welfare cuts.
EU/IMF.
Foreign Policy.

So hypothetically speaking you'd have no opinion if Social Welfare was cut to €80 per week and Taxes were increased to 50% to pay for the interest rates imposed on us by the EU/IMF? If you got sick your medical card didn't cover the first €160 of monthly expenses, even if you were unlucky to end up on the Dole. You would hardly be happy or be even prepared to accept such things happening and would probably be exercising your democratic right to protest and march!

At least on Friday 25th you do have a choice and to decide how your country will be run and governed.

Labour said they will cut over a billion euro from the cost of Social Welfare through eliminating fraud. This is laughable.
Each party are basing their plans on growth projections that no one believe (apart from the Dept. of Finance).

Whats that saying - "the more you know, the more you realise you don't know"

Grouse67 wrote: »

Very very sad, people protesting and dying all over the world looking for a vote and a huge % of us in Ireland just won’t bother

That's the great thing about a democracy - you have the freedom to vote in any way you want, even if you choose not to.

Nody

zig wrote: »

I think voting should be compulsory with a none of the above option. It wouldnt make a difference but it would give us true figures of what peoples views are, it would also force people to make a decision if they were slightly unsure and were not too bothered about voting.

I belive Peru has such a rule; mandatory to vote (world wide mind you!) or you're fined.

jimmycrackcorm

Grouse67 wrote: »

Very very sad, people protesting and dying all over the world looking for a vote and a huge % of us in Ireland just won’t bother

That argument is a bit like me telling my child to eat their dinner because there are starving people in other parts of the world.

There are large numbers of people everywhere who are disconnected from voting. You may as well not vote as vote for someone in the ULA in this election for all the effect it will have.

Drumpot

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That argument is a bit like me telling my child to eat their dinner because there are starving people in other parts of the world.

There are large numbers of people everywhere who are disconnected from voting. You may as well not vote as vote for someone in the ULA in this election for all the effect it will have.

What an interesting comparison, however your use of the phrase "telling a child" to do something is appropriate. A child doesnt know any better, an adult should. Perhaps you are suggesting that those that dont vote have the mentality of a child as they need to be educated on the importance and ramifications of voting ?

If a child doesnt eat their dinner, in truth it really only affects them (or their family who may not be able to afford the waste). When people choose not to vote they arent just affecting themselves by not having a voice, their decision has a huge impact on the rest of us as people may get into positions of power mainly down to the true voice of Irish Citizens not being properly heard.

People fighting for their freedom is a stark reminder that deomcracy has come at a cost to Irish People. Choosing not to vote is choosing to be lazy and ignorant of the freedom we enjoy and is a kick in the face to people who suffer tyranny of dictators who literally put their lives on the line to get the opportunity to vote.

Like I said, theres nothing to stop people spoiling their votes by voting but not choosing a candidate. Not voting at all basically means you dont really give a sh8t how the country is run, no amount of waffling can disguise that fact. As such you abdicate your right to moan about the state of the country as you did nothing to try to make it better.

gk5000

To OP and other non voters:

You post in this forum so seem to want your voice to be heard, to influence others;

Yet you do not wish for your voice to counted or to influence the collective decision to elect a new government.

This does not compute!

Drumpot

gk5000 wrote: »

To OP and other non voters:

You post in this forum so seem to want your voice to be heard, to influence others;

Yet you do not wish for your voice to counted or to influence the collective decision to elect a new government.

This does not compute!

Good point . .

So you dont agree with the current political structure ? (neither do I)

You dont really like the alternatives? (neither do most people),

So instead of voting for a new politician who at least may be better then what we have, you choose to do nothing that will change nothing ?

Just the kind of people/attitudes we dont need to get our country back up and running . .

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country . . Spending some time to get to know the candidates, gettiong off your ass down to a booth and Voting once every 5 years isnt alot to ask ! !

vallo

If you can imagine yourself next Saturday listening to who tops the poll and who is eliminated after the first count and really feel nothing, then go and spoil your vote. Register your disaffection in a manner that'll actually count.

If you think for a second that you might feel angry/regretful or experience any other emotion when you hear that one reasonable candidate is eliminated while one completely obnoxious career politician is still in with a chance of a seat, then you must vote.

Someone put it well on the radio the other day. Start with the most reprehensible character on the list, give him/her your last preference and then work your way up to number one from there.

Crasp

The tone of this thread seems to be "vote for someone you dislike the least" which seems rubbish imo. Exercising your right to vote is useless if you're essentially still voting for someone you don't actually want.


I also wouldn't vote for any party candidates, I disagree with all the policies. Maybe the independents would be a good bet, but I'm not familiar with their policies. A moot point.



How about a negative marking scheme for voting? Number of (1)s plus the number of (-1)s and whoever has the highest points wins. If noone wins, repeat election, preferably with new candidates.

Drumpot

Crasp wrote: »

The tone of this thread seems to be "vote for someone you dislike the least" which seems rubbish imo. Exercising your right to vote is useless if you're essentially still voting for someone you don't actually want.


I also wouldn't vote for any party candidates, I disagree with all the policies. Maybe the independents would be a good bet, but I'm not familiar with their policies. A moot point.



How about a negative marking scheme for voting? Number of (1)s plus the number of (-1)s and whoever has the highest points wins. If noone wins, repeat election, preferably with new candidates.

Have you read most of the posts ? Spoil your vote and at least vote. It sends a message to politicians that people want to vote for change and alternatives. Not voting sends a message that you just couldnt be bothered.

vallo

Crasp wrote: »

The tone of this thread seems to be "vote for someone you dislike the least" which seems rubbish imo. Exercising your right to vote is useless if you're essentially still voting for someone you don't actually want.

The point is that in some constituencies and for some voters, there are no candidates they like.
Voting for the people they dislike the least makes absolute sense in those cases.
E.g I will use my vote all the way down to the very last position where I'll put the two FFers. That way my ballot cannot possibly help them over the line, but crucially, may help whoever they are in competition against for the last seat.
Plus spite is very therapeutic.

caseyann

So you want to go the Belgium route?

nitrogen

Jackovarian wrote: »

Sure, but at the end of the day there are other options out there, even if the Irish media only feeds you the usuals.

No excuse not to vote.

But what if your options are only a Douche or a Turd?

vallo

caseyann wrote: »

So you want to go the Belgium route?

Why would you think that??