The Libyan uprising

Ramirez1

"Peaceful protesters" in Benghazi are enjoying the killing of one of the state representatives (watch till the end):


ARE THEY REALLY peacful protesters in Benghazi Libya??? !!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbVukQDXuCSE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

A rebellion divided: spectre of revenge killings hangs over eastern Libya

The surviving rebels called ahead to warn the city of an impending attack. Locals say that a rebel commander named Abdul Hakim Al-Hasadi organized an ambush near the outskirts; the 45-year-old had quickly become a prominent figure among the rebels because of his expertise in guerrilla warfare, which he received at training camps in Afghanistan from 1999 to 2002.
The rebels caught all 22 soldiers and started transporting them in pickup trucks back to Darna; although seven leapt from the back of the trucks they were recaptured the next morning in a neighbouring village. The remaining 15 arrived at the central mosque in Darna, where a large crowed gathered and called for their execution.
Mr. El-Magri said a group of educated men tried to shelter the prisoners inside the mosque and planned to disperse them among safe houses with families in the city. Most of them were bundled into vehicles and kept away from the mob, he said, but men in the crowed snatched one of them from the back of a pickup truck. He saw them hang him with rope from a green pedestrian bridge near the mosque.
Families that sheltered the prisoners that night remain afraid to speak to the media, fearing retribution. Abdel Gadir, 29, said one of his friends took in a group of prisoners and soon found it difficult to keep them.
“His door alarm rang in the middle of the night,” Mr. Gadir said. “Men with guns were in the road with covered faces. They told him, ‘Give us those criminals.’”
The masked men took away the prisoners. The next day, Mr. Gadir said he returned home in the evening to his village of Makhtuba, 20 kilometres east of Darna, and found his neighbours upset. They had discovered a pile of bodies, apparently executed with gunshots, at a nearby crossroads known as Hisha.
“My friend said, ‘Our revolution has taken a wrong turn,’” Mr. Gadir said. “Each of the bodies had a bullet in the head.”
Whatever truths remain buried under the dusty earth, locals say the community has reacted with horror to the excesses of the revolution’s initial days. During the Friday prayers after the hanging, clerics spoke out against extra-judicial killings. City leaders have recently asked Mr. Al-Hasadi, the guerrilla expert with experience in Afghanistan, to take a less prominent role in local defences.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/a-rebellion-divided-spectre-of-revenge-killings-hangs-over-eastern-libya/article1967949/page3/

Tea drinker

So I saw a video where the "rebels" executed POW's after interogation.
These guys smell like Al Qaida. They don't seem like the regular people who overthrew the likes of Mubarrak, and there's very few of them like in the other "revolutions" .
Why we are backing the loosing side when gaddafi is selling us oil anyway, don't know. Maybe as someone mentioned it's because Russians companies were getting the deals? It certainly isn't some humanitarian thing, the rebels are as bad as daffy and due to lack of power will need a lot of bloodshed to install them, and keep them their.

Predator_

Tea drinker wrote: »

So I saw a video where the "rebels" executed POW's after interogation.
These guys smell like Al Qaida. They don't seem like the regular people who overthrew the likes of Mubarrak, and there's very few of them like in the other "revolutions" .
Why we are backing the loosing side when gaddafi is selling us oil anyway, don't know. Maybe as someone mentioned it's because Russians companies were getting the deals? It certainly isn't some humanitarian thing, the rebels are as bad as daffy and due to lack of power will need a lot of bloodshed to install them, and keep them their.

Whos this we you speak of. Ireland isnt taking part in this disgraceful bombing of a sovereign country.

Tea drinker

Predator_ wrote: »

Whos this we you speak of. Ireland isnt taking part in this disgraceful bombing of a sovereign country.

Yeah we are, "we" supported the open UN resolution worded specifically to allow broad engagement of daffy's forces. Fairly sure "we" includes the usual support Ireland gives all Western (the main "we") launched wars.
i.e. initially at least political support, rising later to other kinds of support.
I haven't seen Kenny or anyone condemn it, so tacit support and supported in UN too.

Jonny7

Ramirez1 wrote: »

"Peaceful protesters" in Benghazi are enjoying the killing of one of the state representatives (watch till the end):


ARE THEY REALLY peacful protesters in Benghazi Libya??? !!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbVukQDXuCSE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

A rebellion divided: spectre of revenge killings hangs over eastern Libya

The surviving rebels called ahead to warn the city of an impending attack. Locals say that a rebel commander named Abdul Hakim Al-Hasadi organized an ambush near the outskirts; the 45-year-old had quickly become a prominent figure among the rebels because of his expertise in guerrilla warfare, which he received at training camps in Afghanistan from 1999 to 2002.
The rebels caught all 22 soldiers and started transporting them in pickup trucks back to Darna; although seven leapt from the back of the trucks they were recaptured the next morning in a neighbouring village. The remaining 15 arrived at the central mosque in Darna, where a large crowed gathered and called for their execution.
Mr. El-Magri said a group of educated men tried to shelter the prisoners inside the mosque and planned to disperse them among safe houses with families in the city. Most of them were bundled into vehicles and kept away from the mob, he said, but men in the crowed snatched one of them from the back of a pickup truck. He saw them hang him with rope from a green pedestrian bridge near the mosque.
Families that sheltered the prisoners that night remain afraid to speak to the media, fearing retribution. Abdel Gadir, 29, said one of his friends took in a group of prisoners and soon found it difficult to keep them.
“His door alarm rang in the middle of the night,” Mr. Gadir said. “Men with guns were in the road with covered faces. They told him, ‘Give us those criminals.’”
The masked men took away the prisoners. The next day, Mr. Gadir said he returned home in the evening to his village of Makhtuba, 20 kilometres east of Darna, and found his neighbours upset. They had discovered a pile of bodies, apparently executed with gunshots, at a nearby crossroads known as Hisha.
“My friend said, ‘Our revolution has taken a wrong turn,’” Mr. Gadir said. “Each of the bodies had a bullet in the head.”
Whatever truths remain buried under the dusty earth, locals say the community has reacted with horror to the excesses of the revolution’s initial days. During the Friday prayers after the hanging, clerics spoke out against extra-judicial killings. City leaders have recently asked Mr. Al-Hasadi, the guerrilla expert with experience in Afghanistan, to take a less prominent role in local defences.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/a-rebellion-divided-spectre-of-revenge-killings-hangs-over-eastern-libya/article1967949/page3/

Hello Euroland

Predator_

Tea drinker wrote: »

Yeah we are, "we" supported the open UN resolution worded specifically to allow broad engagement of daffy's forces. Fairly sure "we" includes the usual support Ireland gives all Western (the main "we") launched wars.
i.e. initially at least political support, rising later to other kinds of support.
I haven't seen Kenny or anyone condemn it, so tacit support and supported in UN too.

No we didnt, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973

You do realize this is an Irish forum and not UK right? I wouldn't blame you though, I sometimes get confused myself.

Jonny7

Tea drinker wrote: »

So I saw a video where the "rebels" executed POW's after interogation.
These guys smell like Al Qaida. They don't seem like the regular people who overthrew the likes of Mubarrak, and there's very few of them like in the other "revolutions" .
Why we are backing the loosing side when gaddafi is selling us oil anyway, don't know. Maybe as someone mentioned it's because Russians companies were getting the deals? It certainly isn't some humanitarian thing, the rebels are as bad as daffy and due to lack of power will need a lot of bloodshed to install them, and keep them their.

Do not compare to Egypt, Mubarak ordered the military to open fire on the protestors, they didn't. Perhaps if Mubarak had burned those who refused and had under his employ several thousand mercenaries from Chad and other countries, and his sons were in charge of their own paramilitary groups, then the situation might have been very different.

There is plenty of footage of the peaceful protestors, I've posted up links myself. I'll post more links should you so need.

The protests are not in any way organised by Al Qaeda or the people drugged by Al Qaeda or any of that nonsense. The country, especially the east, is infamous for the amount of fighters who went to Iraq after incidents like Abu Ghraib, foreign militants, there is a distinction. The rebels are made up of everyone, some hardliners, university professors, blue collar works, electricians, women, etc.

Executions sadly have happened - seen footage of a few myself, mostly of African mercenaries who are utterly despised for their brutality - rebel "leaders" (of which there aren't many) have been trying to stop this. Excuse me, but its a bit rich from ourselves, many Irish men were more willing to execute British soldiers personally after a relatively small event like Bloody Sunday.

Manic Moran

AlekSmart wrote: »

Would Special Forces be utilized in such a role ?

They could be, for an initial seizure. But they'd hand off to 'garrison' forces for long-term retention.

And, of course, there's a limit to how many assets they could seize. A couple of rigs, yes. An entire oilfield, not so much.

NTM

Overheal

Predator_ wrote: »

No we didnt, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973

You do realize this is an Irish forum and not UK right? I wouldn't blame you though, I sometimes get confused myself.

Yeah, Ireland only voted in favor of the Resolutions involving Afghanistan and Iraq.

Eliot Rosewater

Jonny7 wrote: »

Hello Euroland

He is indeed a rereg but do us a favour: next time you find a problematic poster hit the report post button and let the mods deal with it. Post like this are off-topic and achieve nothing.



Both Euroland and Ramirez1 have been banned permanently from the forum, as per the charter.

/mod.

AlekSmart

Having viewed that video I`m impressed by the multiciplicity of mobile phones and cameras brandished by the "Rebels".

Yet again,it would appear that your "Ordinary decent Libyan",rebel or not,is possessed of quite a reasonable standard of living,for the region ?

The video itslef,of course,does not prove/disprove anything other than the essential ability of the Human Being to revert to it`s animalistic base given enough stimulus.

For sure the gentleman in the blue-striped woolen hat will be difficult to assimilate back into normal hum-drum life after being "blooded" in such a manner.

It will indeed be interesting to see how the "Coalition" plans to "Manage" Libya in the aftermath of their seditious adventure to depose Gadaffi, as I very much doubt that "Rebel Freedom Fighters" will be in much mood for reading up on the UN Convention on Human Rights ?

K-9

AlekSmart wrote: »

Having viewed that video I`m impressed by the multiciplicity of mobile phones and cameras brandished by the "Rebels".

Yet again,it would appear that your "Ordinary decent Libyan",rebel or not,is possessed of quite a reasonable standard of living,for the region ?

The video itslef,of course,does not prove/disprove anything other than the essential ability of the Human Being to revert to it`s animalistic base given enough stimulus.

For sure the gentleman in the blue-striped woolen hat will be difficult to assimilate back into normal hum-drum life after being "blooded" in such a manner.

It will indeed be interesting to see how the "Coalition" plans to "Manage" Libya in the aftermath of their seditious adventure to depose Gadaffi, as I very much doubt that "Rebel Freedom Fighters" will be in much mood for reading up on the UN Convention on Human Rights ?

Seems to be one of those things in Africa, the Caribbean and other third and second world countries, loads of people have mobiles and even access to the net. Doesn't mean much more.

AlekSmart

Jonny7 wrote: »

..........

There is plenty of footage of the peaceful protestors, I've posted up links myself. I'll post more links should you so need.

The protests are not in any way organised by Al Qaeda or the people drugged by Al Qaeda or any of that nonsense. The country, especially the east, is infamous for the amount of fighters who went to Iraq after incidents like Abu Ghraib, foreign militants, there is a distinction. The rebels are made up of everyone, some hardliners, university professors, blue collar works, electricians, women, etc.

Executions sadly have happened - seen footage of a few myself, mostly of African mercenaries who are utterly despised for their brutality - rebel "leaders" (of which there aren't many) have been trying to stop this. Excuse me, but its a bit rich from ourselves, many Irish men were more willing to execute British soldiers personally after a relatively small event like Bloody Sunday.

I`m not so certain I can accept that Rebel forces are not "In any way" organized,influenced or even equipped by Al Quaeda..the reality is that unless Jonny7 is Osama Bin Laden,his opinion is just that...opinion,which I for one,respectfully decline to accept.

The social make-up of the Rebels conforms to simple social strata which equally applies to Government Forces,which I`d suggest also contain an equal number of Proffessors,Doctors,Electricians,Women and associated other "Ordinary" non-politicized Libyans.

There are,just as was in Our Own Civil War,two sides opposing each-other here,Father against Son,Brother against Brother,Sister against Sister, all of which is example of our fragility as an existence,but none of which explains or countenances the manner in which the UN Coalition forces so thoroughly backed one side against the other ?

Jonny7 is certainly correct about the numbers of Irishmen willing (and still willing) to execute members of the Crown Forces in every bit as thorough a manner as that libyan video illustrates.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=595_1280348225

I`m still seeing the UN Coalition intervention as misplaced in it`s implimentation and in it`s all to rapid assumption that the Rebel Forces are deserving of "Support" in the manner given.

Jonny7

AlekSmart wrote: »

Having viewed that video I`m impressed by the multiciplicity of mobile phones and cameras brandished by the "Rebels".

Yet again,it would appear that your "Ordinary decent Libyan",rebel or not,is possessed of quite a reasonable standard of living,for the region ?

The video itslef,of course,does not prove/disprove anything other than the essential ability of the Human Being to revert to it`s animalistic base given enough stimulus.

For sure the gentleman in the blue-striped woolen hat will be difficult to assimilate back into normal hum-drum life after being "blooded" in such a manner.

It will indeed be interesting to see how the "Coalition" plans to "Manage" Libya in the aftermath of their seditious adventure to depose Gadaffi, as I very much doubt that "Rebel Freedom Fighters" will be in much mood for reading up on the UN Convention on Human Rights ?

I'm not quite sure if you are asking genuine questions or trying to make a point?

but anyway, the region is fairly modern.. relatively speaking.. compared to other parts of Africa, e.g. Congo

If the rebels prevail, the country has a chance at democracy, a brighter future, and even if all that fails it cannot possibly by worse than if Gaddafi prevails, because if that happens then country will remain a dictatorship - and there won't be any 'speculation' about the violence, there just will be a massive, Kurd style crackdown.

Try to imagine, the leader of a country, actually hiring mercenaries to kill and attack his own people who are opposed to his 40 yr total rule - calling them 'rats' on television, speaking of cleansing house by house - read up on the guy, he is absolutely ruthless.

Jonny7

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not so certain I can accept that Rebel forces are not "In any way" organized,influenced or even equipped by Al Quaeda..the reality is that unless Jonny7 is Osama Bin Laden,his opinion is just that...opinion,which I for one,respectfully decline to accept.

The social make-up of the Rebels conforms to simple social strata which equally applies to Government Forces,which I`d suggest also contain an equal number of Proffessors,Doctors,Electricians,Women and associated other "Ordinary" non-politicized Libyans.

There are,just as was in Our Own Civil War,two sides opposing each-other here,Father against Son,Brother against Brother,Sister against Sister, all of which is example of our fragility as an existence,but none of which explains or countenances the manner in which the UN Coalition forces so thoroughly backed one side against the other ?

Jonny7 is certainly correct about the numbers of Irishmen willing (and still willing) to execute members of the Crown Forces in every bit as thorough a manner as that libyan video illustrates.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=595_1280348225

I`m still seeing the UN Coalition intervention as misplaced in it`s implimentation and in it`s all to rapid assumption that the Rebel Forces are deserving of "Support" in the manner given.

Its a fair question.. but the focus is constantly on the 'rebels' - heavily laden with suspicion.. with seemingly little knowledge of the country, leader, or situation?? -

opinion based on knowledge is better than speculative gut instinct opinion based on guesswork - wouldn't you agree?

Why are French and UN forces actually backing the forces attacking Gbago in Ivory Coast right now? - they certainly do not trust Outtara's forces - I wouldn't either - but, and this is extremely important

At the very least, its the lesser of two evils. Outtara - there is some vague hope, Gbagbo - return to civil war. You can make all the guesswork about it that you want, anyone with even basic knowledge of the situation can tell you that.

In Egypt, Mubarak said the uprising was a foreign plot and that the foreign camera crews were zionist spies - there were people who believed him

In Libya, Gaddafi says that the uprising is being caused by Al Qaeda, people taking drugs, foreign plot, etc, etc - again people will believe that

Iran, Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Burma - I've followed all these events so closely over the years, its always the same lines.

If someone has a pre-formed opinion on the matter, then obviously everything will be 'suspicious'. Many people who've been burnt by Iraq pay zero attention to a situation like Libya or Ivory coast, know nothing about it, then suddenly when the US/UN/France gets involved suddenly they get very 'interested'. This is immediately noticeable, as I used to be one of those people.

Manic Moran

K-9 wrote: »

Seems to be one of those things in Africa, the Caribbean and other third and second world countries, loads of people have mobiles and even access to the net. Doesn't mean much more.

Afghanistan as well. It's a 19th century country with mobile 'phones.

Simple reason for it: It's the easiest and cheapest infrastructure to set up. Wire up a single tower, and you can have service for everyone within a couple of miles. No need to wire every house with electricity or 'phone lines.

NTM