Should NATO invade Libya?

darkman2

Gadaffi's son effectively said this morning that the thug dictator will murder as many protestors as it takes to keep power. Over 200 people have already been killed.


I would imagine the West has a matter of days to decide what to do about this - a very serious situation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586

orourkeda

Send in KATO

Lumen

NATO != "The West".

chin_grin

orourkeda wrote: »

Send in KATO

Or Mr Tayto?

NothingMan

chin_grin wrote: »

Or Mr Tayto?

Or maybe Horatio?

Krusader

Sending in NATO would only end in more civilians being killed

chin_grin

NothingMan wrote: »

Or maybe Horatio?

What the dealio?
Maybe this gettin' silly. No?

Duggy747

Send in Plato, he'll end up confusing everyone.

seamus

Wait and see. Warn Gadaffi that he must find a peaceful solution, but I wouldn't send in anyone just yet.

History tells us that pre-emptively getting involved rather than letting these things work themselves out usually ends up with the wrong guy being in charge and bearing a grudge against the west.

Outside forces need to be careful not to "tell" the population who's in charge. Wait until there's an inevitable outcome (there are reports that Gadaffi has fled for example), then step to restore peace and set up fair and free elections. If you wander in to enforce peace before the people have fought for it themselves, you risk the wrong people getting into power.

Imagine if NATO (if it had existed) got involved in the Irish Civil War and De Valera's forces had won? The years of fighting in Northern Ireland might look like a picnic compared to what might have come after. Or even if they're got involved on Collins's side and completely crushed the anti-Treaty side mercilessly? DeValera still had the support of 30% of the country at that stage, completely bulldozing those forces might have badly fractured the country.

The intricacies of national politics are often far too subtle for other countries to jam their oar in and interfere.

ejmaztec

darkman2 wrote: »

Gadaffi's son effectively said this morning that the thug dictator will murder as many protestors as it takes to keep power. Over 200 people have already been killed.


I would imagine the West has a matter of days to decide what to do about this - a very serious situation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586

Isn't he the psycho who pissed off the Swiss, before the Swiss pissed off his dad?

I can't see anyone going in there. The UK's got a good oil-deal going on with the Libyans, and the Americans seem to be Gaddafi's BFF at the moment. I think the UK's suspended arms trading with them, but that won't stop the Libyans getting whatever they want elsewhere.

There will be a bit of mumbling by the West, but that's about it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wait until we're all saying nearly €2- for a litre of diesel and we'll be looking for NATO to bomb the ME/North Africa back to the ice age.

Lumen

Jaiden Microscopic Soybean wrote: »

Wait until we're all saying nearly €2- for a litre of diesel and we'll be looking for NATO to bomb the ME/North Africa back to the ice age.

Yes, that will definitely make diesel cheaper.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, that will definitely make diesel cheaper.

No, it wouldn't.

Lumen

Jaiden Microscopic Soybean wrote: »

No, it wouldn't.

"Are you being sarcastic, dude?"
"I don't even know any more."

flyton5

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, that will definitely make diesel cheaper.

My sarcasm detector is off the charts...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lumen wrote: »

"Are you being sarcastic, dude?"
"I don't even know any more."

I don't get you 'dude'.

Lumen

Jaiden Microscopic Soybean wrote: »

I don't get you 'dude'.

Simpsons reference.

What I meant was, my ironic reply incorrectly assumed your OP was unironic, but your subsequent reply made me realise that my your OP was intended to be ironic, which would make my my ironic response at best obselete or at worst unironic, or else your reply was intended to also be ironic, in which case I have absolutely no idea what's going on.

positron

The unrest in the middle east should be our way out of the economic mess. Here's the draft plan.

* Irish Government should declare emergency.
* Takeover Ryanair, AerLingus and all their air crafts and staff.
* Roundup men and women and beer onto planes, and arm them and drop them off near Libya.
* Promise Libyans that we are there to help, just to get Gaddaffi out.
* Wreck the place in the name of war. Blame it alll on Gaddaffi's people of course.
* Install Irish-friendly people into power.
* Strike cheap oil deal, and win all regeneration, rebuilding contracts.
* Profilt!!!

Oh sorry, that somehow sounds like what Americans do.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lumen wrote: »

Simpsons reference.

What I meant was, my ironic reply incorrectly assumed your OP was unironic, but your subsequent reply made me realise that my your OP was intended to be ironic, which would make my my ironic response at best obselete or at worst unironic, or else your reply was intended to also be ironic, in which case I have absolutely no idea what's going on.

Your really confusing me now, can you make that a little less cryptic please.

Either you believe a war will make diesel cheaper or you don't.. explain.

NothingMan

Lumen wrote: »

What I meant was, my ironic reply incorrectly assumed your OP was unironic, but your subsequent reply made me realise that my your OP was intended to be ironic, which would make my my ironic response at best obselete or at worst unironic, or else your reply was intended to also be ironic, in which case I have absolutely no idea what's going on.

*head explodes*

mike65

Sending in NATO won't be needed, Quadaffi Ducks son is a big mouth who'll either be hanging from a lampost within a week or will have fled to [insert obscure country here] with a suitcase of diamonds and cash.

Lumen

Jaiden Microscopic Soybean wrote: »

Either you believe a war will make diesel cheaper or you don't.. explain.

I absolutely do not think that wars in oil producing countries make oil-based products cheaper.

I also think that taking a decision about waging war on the basis of the effect on oil prices is immoral and stupid.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lumen wrote: »

I absolutely do not think that wars in oil producing countries make oil-based products cheaper..

You shouldn't have said it would so. (I got you!!)

Sticky_Fingers

Lumen wrote: »

Simpsons reference.

What I meant was, my ironic reply incorrectly assumed your OP was unironic, but your subsequent reply made me realise that my your OP was intended to be ironic, which would make my my ironic response at best obselete or at worst unironic, or else your reply was intended to also be ironic, in which case I have absolutely no idea what's going on.

Wait, I'm confused. So the cops knew that internal affairs were setting them up?

biko

mike65 wrote: »

Sending in NATO won't be needed, Quadaffi Ducks son is a big mouth who'll either be hanging from a lampost within a week or will have fled to Saudi Arabia with a suitcase of diamonds and cash.

FYP, all the dictators are gathering in the biggest nest. Hopefully one day that nest will be toppled too.

ejmaztec

Jaiden Microscopic Soybean wrote: »

You shouldn't have said it would so. (I got you!!)

I think that Nato will probably be sent to Lumen before Libya at this rate.:pac:

mike65

Indeed Saudi will take in any types - if Idi Amin could find a home there the Qaddafi's can (Amin also hid out in Libya after he fled Uganda)

Lumen

biko wrote: »

FYP, all the dictators are gathering in the biggest nest. Hopefully one day that nest will be toppled too.

A country populated entirely by dictators would be cool. They'd need some sort of system to ensure each citizen was represented in the decision making process. They could call it "people power", or something.

RaleSlimShady

Yes, knock the ****e out of them.

bonzodog2

Lumen wrote: »

Simpsons reference.

What I meant was, my ironic reply incorrectly assumed your OP was unironic, but your subsequent reply made me realise that my your OP was intended to be ironic, which would make my my ironic response at best obselete or at worst unironic, or else your reply was intended to also be ironic, in which case I have absolutely no idea what's going on.

Some kind or funky reverse-irony thing goin' on there. Tis complicated !

jackiebaron

darkman2 wrote: »

Gadaffi's son effectively said this morning that the thug dictator will murder as many protestors as it takes to keep power. Over 200 people have already been killed.


I would imagine the West has a matter of days to decide what to do about this - a very serious situation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586

Why would the west invade Libya? They support Gaddafi.

FlutterinBantam

jackiebaron wrote: »

Why would the west invade Libya? They support Gaddafi.

I was wondering how long it would be before the lads hopped out of the woodwork to blame the problems of the world on 'the West'

Phill Ewinn

Can't see anyone jumping to the aid of Labia TBH. Its not like anyone needs more expensive conflicts to get involved in. I doubt if even the most experienced war financiers could make a profit from that place. Won't take too long to oust the buggers anyhow, even without help.

Royal Irish

I hate to see civilian lives lost, but all these Dictators in the Maghreb and in the Middle East are doing us in the west a favor by staying in power. If or when they are kicked from power the likely replacements will be islamic extremists. I think its either Tunisia or Egypt that the previously banned group called the Muslim brotherhood are looking likely to take power. Also Iranian warships have passed through the Suez canal recently for the first time in about 30 years I think. The toppled Egyptian government never used to allow them pass through in the past. Could be some dark times ahead.

FlutterinBantam

Outer or Inner Labia





































Sorry

Nodin

Royal Irish wrote: »

I hate to see civilian lives lost, but all these Dictators in the Maghreb and in the Middle East are doing us in the west a favor by staying in power. ........

Yes, just look at some of the happy folk their regimes have produced so far and how fond of 'the west' they are....

Fratton Fred

I bet the real IRA would like NATO to invade. Their forefathers did quite nicely the last time the US bombed Tripoli.

Funkfield

Royal Irish wrote: »

I hate to see civilian lives lost, but all these Dictators in the Maghreb and in the Middle East are doing us in the west a favor by staying in power. If or when they are kicked from power the likely replacements will be islamic extremists. I think its either Tunisia or Egypt that the previously banned group called the Muslim brotherhood are looking likely to take power. Also Iranian warships have passed through the Suez canal recently for the first time in about 30 years I think. The toppled Egyptian government never used to allow them pass through in the past. Could be some dark times ahead.

Really? I didn't see thing heading that way. Got any links I could read up on?

Cheers.

helimachoptor

A war is coming between the "west" and Islam

Tubsandtiles

Nuke them or let America deal with them, which will lead to a nuke being dropped .

Nodin

helimachoptor wrote: »

A war is coming between the "west" and Islam

Libya is fairly secular, though conservative.

How many carriers does Islam have in its fleet, btw?

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Libya is fairly secular, though conservative.

How many carriers does Islam have in its fleet, btw?

aircraft carriers, none
Suicide vest carriers, thousands.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

aircraft carriers, none
Suicide vest carriers, thousands.

And these are based where?

wes

Its truly amazing that people seem to think peaceful pro-democracy protesters, are some how interested in starting a war with the West. Some people are truly living on bizaro world.

seamus

Royal Irish wrote: »

I hate to see civilian lives lost, but all these Dictators in the Maghreb and in the Middle East are doing us in the west a favor by staying in power. If or when they are kicked from power the likely replacements will be islamic extremists. I think its either Tunisia or Egypt that the previously banned group called the Muslim brotherhood are looking likely to take power. Also Iranian warships have passed through the Suez canal recently for the first time in about 30 years I think. The toppled Egyptian government never used to allow them pass through in the past. Could be some dark times ahead.

Maybe I'm crazy, but don't you think an Islamic democracy is better than any dictatorship? How many democratic countries (as compared to dictatorships) have waged war on their neighbours in the last 100 years?

Think about the last world war. 3 primary belligerants, all dictatorships. All of the primary Allies, democracies.

The thing is, when you let people vote for what they want, they very rarely vote for, "Yes, let's send our children to invade a foreign country and blow the ****e out of themselves because we want a bigger country". They usually vote for the, "We like our country as it is, just keep us safe and keep us healthy" option.

Dictatorships breed poverty, which breeds ignorance, which breeds religious extremism. It's no coincidence that Islamic fundamentalists tend to come from poor dictatorships. It's in much the same way that IRA sympathisers and supporters tend to come from working-class areas.

ejmaztec

wes wrote: »

Its truly amazing that people seem to think peaceful pro-democracy protesters, are some how interested in starting a war with the West. Some people are truly living on bizaro world.

I'd hate for any peoples putting their lives on the line to get rid of their dodgy rulers, if like Ireland, they end up with a bigger bunch of **** than the ones that were forced out.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

And these are based where?

Somewhere Bradford and Lehore I believe.

prinz

wes wrote: »

Its truly amazing that people seem to think peaceful pro-democracy protesters, are some how interested in starting a war with the West. Some people are truly living on bizaro world.

It's not the poor buggers on the street people are afraid of. They seem to be after affordable food, jobs, democracy, greater personal freedoms etc. All praiseworthy goals. It's people like Gadaffi making a grab for power in the event of a vacuum that is worrying, which will leave the protestors in just as bad, if not worse, position. A return to the pre-Gadaffi Libyan Constitution of the Monarchy would be a step in the right direction. I've noticed at the protests in London they had the previous flags flying.

Iwannahurl

Video uploaded to YouTube within the last 5-6 hours claims Gaddafi has fled Tripoli. No direct evidence that I can see, but interesting to speculate all the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLHUOkFh8R0

Killer Pigeon

darkman2 wrote: »

Gadaffi's son effectively said this morning that the thug dictator will murder as many protestors as it takes to keep power. Over 200 people have already been killed.


I would imagine the West has a matter of days to decide what to do about this - a very serious situation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586

Why should we care about Libya when we got an ever bigger problem on out hands - Enda Kenny!!

wes

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'd hate for any peoples putting their lives on the line to get rid of their dodgy rulers, if like Ireland, they end up with a bigger bunch of **** than the ones that were forced out.

Hopefully that doesn't happen, and things are still up in the air, but I don't see people accepting anything less than a democracy at this point imho. Yes, things have the potential to go wrong, but there is just as much chance if not more so, that the protesters will get what they want.