What's the real reason Irish pubs don't have more craft beers available?

Focalbhach

BeerNut wrote: »

No point in complaining that "what I offer my customers isn't good enough" ...
But that's not to say smart publicans aren't thinking it.

In which case - given declining sales and recognition by the publican that the products on offer may be a contributing factor - I would think that specific requests by real live people in the bar for something else might help to direct them down that path. It certainly can't hurt.

brianthebard

BeerNut wrote: »

And they blame the supermarkets and the smoking ban

I don't think this happens very much. Can you give me an example? In every pub I can think of, craft beer is either the same price as the macro equivalents, or is cheaper. When the Red Windmill put Trouble Ór on, it was €3.50 a pint -- cheapest in the place. The house beers in Messrs Maguire have been €4 a pint for at least the past six years. The Bull & Castle commissioned a special low-ABV budget pale ale: €3.85 a half litre and again the cheapest beer in the house.

That would be the case in all the pubs in Galway that sell craft beers with the exception of specials if they are running any.

It's a fair point, but the killer counter-argument is: England. Same pub culture and social function; lots of quality local and regional beer.

Not entirely true you just have to look at the different relationship between the breweries and pubs or the franchise pubs to see there are fundamental differences in operation, and in culture as a result.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

That would be the case in all the pubs in Galway that sell craft beers with the exception of specials if they are running any.

Off the top of my head, I recall Bay Lager and Ale being cheaper than any other draught option in Oslo. I'm fairly sure a pint of O'Hara's Stout in the Salt House was cheaper than a pint of Carlsberg last time I was in, though that was almost a year ago. Have you any up-to-date numbers?

brianthebard wrote: »

there are fundamental differences in operation, and in culture as a result.

There are fundamental differences in the business culture, true: first thing I'd change in Ireland is our ridiculous Edwardian licensing regime. But the social function of the pub is exactly the same.

brianthebard

BeerNut wrote: »

Off the top of my head, I recall Bay Lager and Ale being cheaper than any other draught option in Oslo. I'm fairly sure a pint of O'Hara's Stout in the Salt House was cheaper than a pint of Carlsberg last time I was in, though that was almost a year ago. Have you any up-to-date numbers?

Bay lager and ale are in house brews, there would be something wrong with the pub if they didn't sell them cheaper. Plus that's out in Salthill tbh and I don't count it as Galway. I don't remember O'Hara's being cheaper in the Salthouse, it has been cheaper than Guinness in No.8 for instance when on special but not normally. I haven't been to the pub in a while so I can't guarantee it though.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

there would be something wrong with the pub if they didn't sell them cheaper.

Nevertheless, it would indicate that "all the pubs in Galway that sell craft beers" do not sell them dearer than macros.

brianthebard wrote: »

Plus that's out in Salthill tbh and I don't count it as Galway.

They didn't sell the Bay beers in The Salt House or Mustard when I was last in Galway; they do now. If you get a chance maybe you could give us an up-to-date price comparison.

brianthebard

I will hopefully be out this week or next, or for the end of the 6n, so we'll see what I can do. The bay drinks are nice and its good that they are being offered cheaper than the macrobrews. I would still consider them specials, at least until they are rolled out across all pubs in Galway, but maybe the company intends to keep them exclusive, I don't know.

irish_goat

The only way I can imagine the pub I work in ever selling craft beer is if a few regulars indicated that they would drink it and I convinced the boss to buy some in. As far as I can remember I've only ever been asked twice in my 4 years of work if we stocked any "decent" beers.

Being in an area closer to the breweries would help. I.e. I imagine sales of Belfast Ale are a bit higher in Belfast cause of the name association.

rubadub

BeerNut wrote: »

One incident where people ask for stuff does not constitute "obvious demand".

the original mention in this thread was 100 people in a weekend. But even with my example, if I was a publican the single incident I mentioned would certainly be enough to make me think about stocking it. Many pubs are screwed these days, after visiting my mate working in his pub the next day one of the lads said we probably doubled the pubs takings for the night, there were few others there, and they were drinking nowhere near as much as us.

In other this and other threads with publicans I keep hearing over and over "it won't sell". Now a gang of lads coming in and leaving after hearing there is no sky sports and no 60" LED will not spur me into spending €5000 on a big setup on a whim-that would take serious thought and calculation. But for fucks sake lads, getting a couple of 6 packs of different beers in your fridge to see if there actually is a market is not a big investment. And as I said before, if they don't sell drink them yourself, there is nothing to lose. It really does puzzle me.

BeerNut wrote: »

there are plenty of prosperous pubs that don't do food but are probably asked for it regularly -- I've seen it several times in The Long Hall, for instance.

Like the big plasma or sky subscription getting hot food in would be a big endeavour and investment. Most pubs will have their overpriced snacks to sell. I would imagine serving sandwiches or hot food made on the premises might bring them into some other category, like have to be up to scratch for healthboards etc, have inspections, employ a chef, get a approved kitchen etc. They might have worked out potential losses and figured they are still better off without the extra headache of all the extra work. Its incomparable to a few 6 packs just to test the water.

BeerNut wrote: »

If they are not supplying demand, the numbers will be down. A sensible businessperson will try and do something to bring the numbers up: food, live music, or a wider range of beers, for instance.

A sensible buinnessman will not just be content with figures which match last months, they would actively be pursing higher profits and looking at what goes on at the shopfloor level -even if his profits are going up and in most cases demand is dropping as mentioned. I would always be seeking to increase demand and testing easy ideas to do so.

JnarF

BeerNut wrote: »

Off the top of my head, I recall Bay Lager and Ale being cheaper than any other draught option in Oslo. I'm fairly sure a pint of O'Hara's Stout in the Salt House was cheaper than a pint of Carlsberg last time I was in, though that was almost a year ago. Have you any up-to-date numbers?

When they opened they were in fact much dearer than a regular pint in there, but they thankfully saw sense. O'Haras Stout is on draught at the moment, has been for a few weeks, had a couple of tasty pints of it a while back, can't remember how much but it was very reasonably priced, thinking of it now I'd love a few pints of it!

BeerNut

Ah yes, it was Porterhouse Oyster that was on when I was in, not O'Hara's. I've just dug out a photo I took of the bar.

So, in February 2010:

Craft beers (per pint)
Galway Hooker: €4.75
Porterhouse Oyster: €4.30
Hersbrucker: €4.30

Macro beers (per pint)
Budvar : €4.75
Hoegaarden: €4.75
Staropramen: €4.75
Fischer: €4.75
Guinness: €3.75
Pilsner Urquell: €4.75
Carlsberg: €4.30
Erdinger: €4.75

The prices seem to be largely based on style rather than bumping up the price of the craft beers.

pa990

the majority of pub goers, wont chance anything different.

a friend of mine was in a pub where a paulaner promotion was going on, and he was enjoying the cheap wheat beer.
however, the guys in the pub wouldnt drink the beer, cos it came in a gay glass, and the women wouldnt drink it cos it looked like piss.

.. make up your own mind ..

Bigcheeze

pa990 wrote: »

however, the guys in the pub wouldnt drink the beer, cos it came in a gay glass, and the women wouldnt drink it cos it looked like piss.

.. make up your own mind ..

Funny, I was in a pub with a mate and we got two Paulaners and I could tell the bar flies were looking at us like the guy in the Savage Eye and thinking: "pair of queeeorrs"

rubadub

pa990 wrote: »

the majority of pub goers, wont chance anything different.

The same can be said of the majority of supermarket and off licence "goers", but even the most poorly stocked supermarket has a variety which will put most pubs to shame. Makes no sense to me, are these publicans going into tesco sniggering to themselves thinking "the feckin eejits, nobody is going to buy that, do they not realise they can get away with just 2 choices of lager and 1 stout".

pa990 wrote: »

however, the guys in the pub wouldnt drink the beer, cos it came in a gay glass, and the women wouldnt drink it cos it looked like piss.

Jaysus, if they're that homophobic you can ask for a normal glass -though you will get less due to the head. I ask for half pint glasses with my bottles since I dislike the top heavy branded glasses you usually get.

What also bugs me is when I get any pint with yeast in it I often get ooohs and awws and cheeky feckers always demanding they get to taste some, my mates missus has drank (my) erdinger loads of times yet will never buy one. Again it strangly seems like some massive investment to some people just to try a different beer, yet they would think nothing about "risking" buying a new type of burger at the same price.

I had a pint of weiss in messrs which was cloudy (normal glass), some girl looked at me in shock warning me as I was about to drink it
"but what is that stuff",
"thats yeast"
"why is it in there"
"it was just not filtered out, it was in your beer too but they filtered it out"
-stares at her own beer in disbelief & amazement.
I thought most people would have seen a cloudly beer by now.

BaZmO*

Just on the subject of the "It wouldn't sell, so I won't stock it" argument. Oddly enough, in the current downturn in numbers going to pubs, any of the pubs that stock a wide range of craft beers (that I frequent) always seem to be packed. Granted there could be other factors at play, food, music, location, niche market frequented by niche customers. But that said, the reason why I won't go to my local is because they only serve macros. I don't mind drinking macros but why go to the pub and pay €5 for a pint when I can get 2 bottles of really nice (different) beers (not necessarily craft) in the off license for around the same price?

Publicans need to get the finger out and start promoting the beer themselves. For years it's been up to the the actual supplier to do the promotions, and that was fine for the publican as the customers were there anyway. How difficult is it to get a few trays/crates of Irish craft beer and put on a "Buy Irish" promotion? It doesn't have to have a 4 week prime time TV campaign, but they need to offer something different. Anything.

Food is always a good way to get extra custom but adding new beers is so much easier.

oblivious

BaZmO* wrote: »

J
Publicans need to get the finger out and start promoting the beer themselves. For years it's been up to the the actual supplier to do the promotions, and that was fine for the publican as the customers were there anyway.

oh +1


How many business sit back an have that attuide "It wouldn't sell, so I won't stock it" argument"

irish_goat

BaZmO* wrote: »

ow difficult is it to get a few trays/crates of Irish craft beer and put on a "Buy Irish" promotion? It doesn't have to have a 4 week prime time TV campaign, but they need to offer something different.

The small breweries should all bunch together and do this.

oblivious

irish_goat wrote: »

The small breweries should all bunch together and do this.

And/or with a group of like minded people Beoir

redlead

oblivious wrote: »

And/or with a group of like minded people Beoir

I just signed up. Whats the benefits of the site? Does it send updates of events and stuff like that etc? The articles don't seem to frequent.

moonflower

Just on the subject of craft beers in Galway, the majority of pubs I've been in have had at least one or two craft beers available and at a similar or cheaper price than say a 330ml bottle of Heineken. You definitely couldn't complain about a lack of beer options in Galway, the Oslo/Salthouse/Cottage beer menu is what, 8 pages long? Pretty much all the pubs down the west have a good selection of beers, and even if you prefer to stay up the other side of town there's O'Connells and Foxes which both have a few decent beers.

BeerNut wrote: »

They didn't sell the Bay beers in The Salt House or Mustard when I was last in Galway; they do now. If you get a chance maybe you could give us an up-to-date price comparison.

Irrc they're under €4 a pint.

oblivious

redlead wrote: »

I just signed up. Whats the benefits of the site? Does it send updates of events and stuff like that etc? The articles don't seem to frequent.

Beoir is an independent group of consumers with a primary goal of supporting and raising awareness of Ireland's native independent microbreweries

the beer revolu

matrim wrote: »

A Beer & Wine & Spirits version boards beers that end up with nobody actually having beer. We pick a pub all walk into it on one weekend ask for a craft and leave when they don't have it

When I'm travelling around the country, I've taken to looking up the Beoir Directory of pubs that stock Craft Beers, going to a pub (if there is one in the town) and making a point of telling them that the express reason that I'd gone there was for the craft beer.

For example, I found that in Kilkenny the only place to stock anything decent was the Grapevine Tappas bar. I found on the Dungarvan Brewing site (Beoir directory needs updating here) that they stock their beers. I went in ordered a Black Rock Stout and some food and made a point of letting them know that the only reason I chose to eat there was because of the beer.

There's something like 70 pubs in Kilkenny and only one wine bar has proper beer!!!!!!??????:mad::mad::mad::mad:

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

(Beoir directory needs updating here)

"Can't Someone Else Do It?", eh?

Added now.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

"Can't Someone Else Do It?", eh?

Added now.

I was just about to but then realised that it is in there under restaurants which is an accurate description, really.
But I suppose we could call it a bar too, at a push.