Martin challenges Adams over IRA

xE

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0216/1224289929770.html

Looks like Michael Martin is the first one to bring this out in this election campaign. It's almost becoming like a sort of Godwin's Law in Irish elections: the sooner it gets to election day, the increase in the likelihood that an allegation that Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA will arise.

Its a bit of a red herring at this stage, people have made their own minds up on the question (at least I have) and if he actually came out and admitted it, it would be almost like proving Santa Clause doesn't exist.

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

jimmycrackcorm

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

Well we know where he was and in fact we voted him back in again.

As for Adams, its par for the course that the electorate will vote him in despite a clear opinion on his relationship with the IRA. After all, wasn't Beverly flynn voted in as was Michael Lowry despite public disquiet about some of their activities>

LordSutch

xE wrote: »

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

Err no, I think the real question is "Why should peole vote for an ex terrorist"? or for a party that has trerrorist connections (namely Sinn Fein).

RandomName2

xE wrote: »

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

I think he would respond by saying that he was Minister for Foreign Affairs when the real mistakes were being made, and that he was too much at the political fringes to make any changes in Fianna Fail policy. He would also point to the fact that he attempted to oust Biffo as Taoiseach very recently.

I don't think he would pull a Gerry and declare that he never had any membership of Fianna Fail but merely acted as a go-between between them and other governments

I agree with you though - Martin was part of the FF core and his viewpoint is that of the FF core.

That nevertheless trumps IRA involvement - but what doesn't trump being a terrorist!?!?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Its to be expected and no surprise its coming from Fianna Fail. They know lots of their previously loyal but now angry supporters are in 2 minds turning to voting FG, and Sinn Fein provide an alternative for those who couldn't stomach it.

Fianna Fail leader questions Jerry Adam's honesty :eek:
FFS and then he brings Bertie Ahern into it, in all fairness, there is no doubt as to Adam's past or the fact that Fianna Fail have been corrupt, I don't think Martin will be admitting it though.

gerryo777

Has anyone here heard fianna fail offering some solutions as to how we get out the mess that they got this country in?
Seems to me all that they have done during the campaign is slag off the other parties.
So what if adams was in the IRA, tell us something that we don't know!
fianna fail have done more damage to Ireland in the last ten/fifteen years than adams and co. ever did or ever could do!!

Don't forget, fianna fail "haven't gone away ya know", so use your vote well in the election!

nacho libre

So much for dispensing with punch and judy type politics, Micheal.

PatsytheNazi

I was watching the current affairs programme Spotlight on BBC last night. To my quite surprise, Ben Dunne has met with SF to discuss some of their policies which he actually agrees with ! They asked Dunne, was it a bit unusual for him to be meeting SF and their connections with the IRA etc Ben Dunne actually told about some witty remark he gave to SF when the met and then went on to say that it was time people moved on as regards SF. As he pointed out - most of what people bring up happening decades ago, " for feck's sake, it was in the last century " he said.

PatsytheNazi

RoverJames wrote: »

Fianna Fail leader questions Jerry Adam's honesty :eek:
FFS and then he brings Bertie Ahern into it, in all fairness, there is no doubt as to Adam's past or the fact that Fianna Fail have been corrupt, I don't think Martin will be admitting it though.

But if Meehole Martin is so concerned SF, how come he doesn't do the same with Labour regarding the "Rusty Guns" otherwise known as Offical Sinn Fein with Gilmore, Rabbite, Kathleen Lynch and their 'fundraising' activites in the 70's and 80's and 90's, connections to Romania Communist dictator Ceausescu, counterfeit dollars and North Korea etc

Regardless, all very, very rich coming from FF the party of the ol' brown paper bag :mad:

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Err no, I think the real question is "Why should peole vote for an ex terrorist"? or for a party that has trerrorist connections (namely Sinn Fein).

No, actually again, the real question is what was Michael Martin doing for the past 14 years? He is one of the more media and public savy members of Fianna Fail, (someone I actually don't think is too bad). One poster hear made a valid point that he was at the fringes, but was he really? He commanded a lot of respect from the party and was always seen as the bright spark frontbencher.

Returning to the tired old question about Gerry Adams, move the hell on! People have a nerve at times thinking their own beloved established parties had no blood on its hands. Sure, if Blaney and Boland had their way, they might have involved Ireland in a 3 hour war (that is all that it would last) with the UK over the North during the 1970's

Adams would be better off admitting what every other member in the IRA & Northern Republican circles knows. It has not hurt McGuinness (suppose fact he spent time in Portlaoise will hardly make covering up easier)

If Paisley Family came down for say an RTÉ show, what reception will they get? What about Trimble (anyone who knows history on him will know that the nobel prize was simply a stunt, imagine 2-3 years work you can earn one as oppose to Hume's life time)? Nice pat on the backs would they ? I will give one thing to Fianna Fail, Albert R & Bertie A, if Fine Gael had been in power for most of the period (1994-96 though a great government imo, not on the north though) we would not have peace as quickly (yes 30 something years is hardly quick)- the arrogant idea that still continued with Enda about not talking to "terrorists";) and how some how this will magically make all the problems go away

We are dealing with the 2011 General Elections. The main issue is jobs and economy. Personally , I don't see the point, when the leaders deabate, rant and raving about each others past, the people are not stupid and will vote accordingly. Its a legitimate complaint by any party regarding FF. FF had no qualms chatting away, complimenting and getting involved in photo ops with SF in the north, but now SF in the south are getting head way, FF get a bit worried (Well, at least FG have been consistent on their stance with Republicianism, which has for most part, discouraged people from them over the years - look where it left us of course)

I suppose you think Mandela is great and Ghandi never believed in violence:rolleyes:

As for your complaint on SF, you have a vote to decide that. Others don't have a problem, or at least willing not to make an issue over that period to ensure economic progress (clearly a period most in the south have not experience or quite frankly have any notion what they are on about)

steelcityblues

Vote Fianna Fail in 2011:

"A lot of clutching at straws done a lot more to do!"

KeithAFC

Its no surprise this is going to be aimed at Gerry Adams. Would be nice to have justice.

LordSutch

walrusgumble wrote: »

As for your complaint on SF, you have a vote to decide that. Others don't have a problem, or at least willing not to make an issue over that period to ensure economic progress (clearly a period most in the south have not experience or quite frankly have any notion what they are on about)

I am still very angry about 'That period' as you call it, the wounds are still there, and I wont forget what he stands for, or what Sinn Fein stands for, I remember well Mr Adams carrying too many IRA coffins (the coffins of his men) usually dispatched while on their way to plant Bombs, I will never forgive Adams for what he did (in his past life) Pre-94. I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters, and if they come knocking at my hall door during this election I will politely tell them to go away, (while I grit my teeth).

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters,

Likewise, just in case my earlier post implies otherwise
I have almost as little time for Fianna Fail now too though.

tipptom

Martins ff dna comes from the time of other parties putting up posters of ff candidates as shadowy figures with the slogan of" keep out the gunmen" thats not that long ago so he cant be to pious about their own past,Adams should just ask martin about what percentage of ff builder supporters,ff councillers,ff td s,ff ministers,ff taosaighs have been under investigation in tribunels etc for corruption as compared to any other party in Ireland.Cant understand why any party does not come up with this figure because it would babecue Martin in a debate.
By the way,not a SF supporter or voter but do have some sympathy as a clearly biased middle class media with well known political affiliations go for them so aggresivley compared to the carpet ride for other parties.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its no surprise this is going to be aimed at Gerry Adams. Would be nice to have justice.

it would have been nice if nationalists in northern ireland had justice from 1922 onwards , justice is a very new concept for unionists /loyalists such as yourself

danbohan

LordSutch wrote: »

I am still very angry about 'That period' as you call it, the wounds are still there, and I wont forget what he stands for, or what Sinn Fein stands for, I remember well Mr Adams carrying too many IRA coffins (the coffins of his men) usually dispatched while on their way to plant Bombs, I will never forgive Adams for what he did (in his past life) Pre-94. I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters, and if they come knocking at my hall door during this election I will politely tell them to go away, (while I grit my teeth).

they will be scared , very scared

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

it would have been nice if nationalists in northern ireland had justice from 1922 onwards , justice is a very new concept for unionists /loyalists such as yourself

Sorry, there i was thinking we lived in 2011 and not 1922. Time for Gerry to come clean.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sorry, there i was thinking we lived in 2011 and not 1922. Time for Gerry to come clean.

for somebody that wants to be in 2011 and going forward you like spending a lot your time dwelling on 1690 etc etc

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

for somebody that wants to be in 2011 and going forward you like spending a lot your time dwelling on 1690 etc etc

No i don't. I discuss past events in discussions regarding the past. You talking about Loyalists not knowing what justice is basically in 2011 is stupid. Asking for Gerry to come clean in 2011 is a valid point of view.

Wolfe Tone

Meh nothing new, it is transparently desperate and is clearly clutching at straws, laughable

paulgalway

FF need to move on. Did Albert Reynolds, Bertie Ahern etc, bring up Adam's past when discussing the peace process over a number of years?

If Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson and the DUP can move on, why can M. Martin do the same.

I believe it is a clear indication that FF are very worried about SF taking some of their votes.

danbohan

paulgalway wrote: »

FF need to move on. Did Albert Reynolds, Bertie Ahern etc, bring up Adam's past when discussing the peace process over a number of years?

If Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson and the DUP can move on, why can M. Martin do the same.

I believe it is a clear indication that FF are very worried about SF taking some of their votes.

its a clear indication fianna fail believe they might end up been the 4th largest party in the dail , ogh the shame

johnmcdnl

me thinks FF are starting to get afraid that SF will overtake FF in the election leaving FF in 4th place

seeing as SF/IRA decommissioned their arms and stopped fighting years ago FF are really starting to dig into the past to try to smear Adams - surely Micheal Martin could find something slightly more relevant such as SF's economic policies to target SF with...

fair enough Adams probably has a bit of blood on his hands alright but without Adams role in the peace process the Provos might still be bombing away....

Wasn't Adams also one of the main leaders within SF who started to try to make democratic steps to peace/freedom in the north

yes he's got flaws - but Michael Martin and FF are hardly in a position to cast stones are they...

Noreen1

Does anyone else find it significant that Michael Martin only made his allegations about Gerry Adams past when Gerry Adams said he was not in favour of white collar crime during the leaders debate?

I'm not a fan of Gerry Adams, but I think he hit a nerve......:D

yermanoffthetv

danbohan wrote: »

its a clear indication fianna fail believe they might end up been the 4th largest party in the dail , ogh the shame

Sand

I think Gerry Adams activities in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are fair game in a political discussion. Gerry likes to pretend he was off contemplating the mysteries of the universe in some windswept monastary perched on a rock off the coast of Ireland during that time, waiting to be called home to lead his people to the promised land when they tired of killing and were willing to follow his patient and pacifist teachings. If he wants to then try moralise about transparency, accountability and honesty in government hes going to get asked difficult questions about his own transparency, accountability and honesty when it comes to his own past.

People (including the OP) after all are giving Micheal Martin stick, asking where he was for the past 14 years when he talks about the need to reform the government.

LordSutch

danbohan wrote: »

they will be scared , very scared

Is that^ meant to be a joke at the expense of his/their victims :cool:

sparkling sea

Glad to see Micheal Martin can stop the bleedin obvious - I am surprised to see he had the courage to say it though.

femur61

MM rightly so is questioning Adams about his involvment in the IRA but not out belief he thinks the electorate deserve honesty, he just sees his party being seriously threatened by SF.