Martin challenges Adams over IRA

xE

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0216/1224289929770.html

Looks like Michael Martin is the first one to bring this out in this election campaign. It's almost becoming like a sort of Godwin's Law in Irish elections: the sooner it gets to election day, the increase in the likelihood that an allegation that Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA will arise.

Its a bit of a red herring at this stage, people have made their own minds up on the question (at least I have) and if he actually came out and admitted it, it would be almost like proving Santa Clause doesn't exist.

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

jimmycrackcorm

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

Well we know where he was and in fact we voted him back in again.

As for Adams, its par for the course that the electorate will vote him in despite a clear opinion on his relationship with the IRA. After all, wasn't Beverly flynn voted in as was Michael Lowry despite public disquiet about some of their activities>

LordSutch

xE wrote: »

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

Err no, I think the real question is "Why should peole vote for an ex terrorist"? or for a party that has trerrorist connections (namely Sinn Fein).

RandomName2

xE wrote: »

The real question is where was Micheal Martin for the last 14 years of mismanagement and corruption, bordering on the criminal?

I think he would respond by saying that he was Minister for Foreign Affairs when the real mistakes were being made, and that he was too much at the political fringes to make any changes in Fianna Fail policy. He would also point to the fact that he attempted to oust Biffo as Taoiseach very recently.

I don't think he would pull a Gerry and declare that he never had any membership of Fianna Fail but merely acted as a go-between between them and other governments

I agree with you though - Martin was part of the FF core and his viewpoint is that of the FF core.

That nevertheless trumps IRA involvement - but what doesn't trump being a terrorist!?!?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Its to be expected and no surprise its coming from Fianna Fail. They know lots of their previously loyal but now angry supporters are in 2 minds turning to voting FG, and Sinn Fein provide an alternative for those who couldn't stomach it.

Fianna Fail leader questions Jerry Adam's honesty :eek:
FFS and then he brings Bertie Ahern into it, in all fairness, there is no doubt as to Adam's past or the fact that Fianna Fail have been corrupt, I don't think Martin will be admitting it though.

gerryo777

Has anyone here heard fianna fail offering some solutions as to how we get out the mess that they got this country in?
Seems to me all that they have done during the campaign is slag off the other parties.
So what if adams was in the IRA, tell us something that we don't know!
fianna fail have done more damage to Ireland in the last ten/fifteen years than adams and co. ever did or ever could do!!

Don't forget, fianna fail "haven't gone away ya know", so use your vote well in the election!

nacho libre

So much for dispensing with punch and judy type politics, Micheal.

PatsytheNazi

I was watching the current affairs programme Spotlight on BBC last night. To my quite surprise, Ben Dunne has met with SF to discuss some of their policies which he actually agrees with ! They asked Dunne, was it a bit unusual for him to be meeting SF and their connections with the IRA etc Ben Dunne actually told about some witty remark he gave to SF when the met and then went on to say that it was time people moved on as regards SF. As he pointed out - most of what people bring up happening decades ago, " for feck's sake, it was in the last century " he said.

PatsytheNazi

RoverJames wrote: »

Fianna Fail leader questions Jerry Adam's honesty :eek:
FFS and then he brings Bertie Ahern into it, in all fairness, there is no doubt as to Adam's past or the fact that Fianna Fail have been corrupt, I don't think Martin will be admitting it though.

But if Meehole Martin is so concerned SF, how come he doesn't do the same with Labour regarding the "Rusty Guns" otherwise known as Offical Sinn Fein with Gilmore, Rabbite, Kathleen Lynch and their 'fundraising' activites in the 70's and 80's and 90's, connections to Romania Communist dictator Ceausescu, counterfeit dollars and North Korea etc

Regardless, all very, very rich coming from FF the party of the ol' brown paper bag :mad:

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Err no, I think the real question is "Why should peole vote for an ex terrorist"? or for a party that has trerrorist connections (namely Sinn Fein).

No, actually again, the real question is what was Michael Martin doing for the past 14 years? He is one of the more media and public savy members of Fianna Fail, (someone I actually don't think is too bad). One poster hear made a valid point that he was at the fringes, but was he really? He commanded a lot of respect from the party and was always seen as the bright spark frontbencher.

Returning to the tired old question about Gerry Adams, move the hell on! People have a nerve at times thinking their own beloved established parties had no blood on its hands. Sure, if Blaney and Boland had their way, they might have involved Ireland in a 3 hour war (that is all that it would last) with the UK over the North during the 1970's

Adams would be better off admitting what every other member in the IRA & Northern Republican circles knows. It has not hurt McGuinness (suppose fact he spent time in Portlaoise will hardly make covering up easier)

If Paisley Family came down for say an RTÉ show, what reception will they get? What about Trimble (anyone who knows history on him will know that the nobel prize was simply a stunt, imagine 2-3 years work you can earn one as oppose to Hume's life time)? Nice pat on the backs would they ? I will give one thing to Fianna Fail, Albert R & Bertie A, if Fine Gael had been in power for most of the period (1994-96 though a great government imo, not on the north though) we would not have peace as quickly (yes 30 something years is hardly quick)- the arrogant idea that still continued with Enda about not talking to "terrorists";) and how some how this will magically make all the problems go away

We are dealing with the 2011 General Elections. The main issue is jobs and economy. Personally , I don't see the point, when the leaders deabate, rant and raving about each others past, the people are not stupid and will vote accordingly. Its a legitimate complaint by any party regarding FF. FF had no qualms chatting away, complimenting and getting involved in photo ops with SF in the north, but now SF in the south are getting head way, FF get a bit worried (Well, at least FG have been consistent on their stance with Republicianism, which has for most part, discouraged people from them over the years - look where it left us of course)

I suppose you think Mandela is great and Ghandi never believed in violence:rolleyes:

As for your complaint on SF, you have a vote to decide that. Others don't have a problem, or at least willing not to make an issue over that period to ensure economic progress (clearly a period most in the south have not experience or quite frankly have any notion what they are on about)

steelcityblues

Vote Fianna Fail in 2011:

"A lot of clutching at straws done a lot more to do!"

KeithAFC

Its no surprise this is going to be aimed at Gerry Adams. Would be nice to have justice.

LordSutch

walrusgumble wrote: »

As for your complaint on SF, you have a vote to decide that. Others don't have a problem, or at least willing not to make an issue over that period to ensure economic progress (clearly a period most in the south have not experience or quite frankly have any notion what they are on about)

I am still very angry about 'That period' as you call it, the wounds are still there, and I wont forget what he stands for, or what Sinn Fein stands for, I remember well Mr Adams carrying too many IRA coffins (the coffins of his men) usually dispatched while on their way to plant Bombs, I will never forgive Adams for what he did (in his past life) Pre-94. I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters, and if they come knocking at my hall door during this election I will politely tell them to go away, (while I grit my teeth).

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters,

Likewise, just in case my earlier post implies otherwise
I have almost as little time for Fianna Fail now too though.

tipptom

Martins ff dna comes from the time of other parties putting up posters of ff candidates as shadowy figures with the slogan of" keep out the gunmen" thats not that long ago so he cant be to pious about their own past,Adams should just ask martin about what percentage of ff builder supporters,ff councillers,ff td s,ff ministers,ff taosaighs have been under investigation in tribunels etc for corruption as compared to any other party in Ireland.Cant understand why any party does not come up with this figure because it would babecue Martin in a debate.
By the way,not a SF supporter or voter but do have some sympathy as a clearly biased middle class media with well known political affiliations go for them so aggresivley compared to the carpet ride for other parties.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its no surprise this is going to be aimed at Gerry Adams. Would be nice to have justice.

it would have been nice if nationalists in northern ireland had justice from 1922 onwards , justice is a very new concept for unionists /loyalists such as yourself

danbohan

LordSutch wrote: »

I am still very angry about 'That period' as you call it, the wounds are still there, and I wont forget what he stands for, or what Sinn Fein stands for, I remember well Mr Adams carrying too many IRA coffins (the coffins of his men) usually dispatched while on their way to plant Bombs, I will never forgive Adams for what he did (in his past life) Pre-94. I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters, and if they come knocking at my hall door during this election I will politely tell them to go away, (while I grit my teeth).

they will be scared , very scared

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

it would have been nice if nationalists in northern ireland had justice from 1922 onwards , justice is a very new concept for unionists /loyalists such as yourself

Sorry, there i was thinking we lived in 2011 and not 1922. Time for Gerry to come clean.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sorry, there i was thinking we lived in 2011 and not 1922. Time for Gerry to come clean.

for somebody that wants to be in 2011 and going forward you like spending a lot your time dwelling on 1690 etc etc

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

for somebody that wants to be in 2011 and going forward you like spending a lot your time dwelling on 1690 etc etc

No i don't. I discuss past events in discussions regarding the past. You talking about Loyalists not knowing what justice is basically in 2011 is stupid. Asking for Gerry to come clean in 2011 is a valid point of view.

Wolfe Tone

Meh nothing new, it is transparently desperate and is clearly clutching at straws, laughable

paulgalway

FF need to move on. Did Albert Reynolds, Bertie Ahern etc, bring up Adam's past when discussing the peace process over a number of years?

If Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson and the DUP can move on, why can M. Martin do the same.

I believe it is a clear indication that FF are very worried about SF taking some of their votes.

danbohan

paulgalway wrote: »

FF need to move on. Did Albert Reynolds, Bertie Ahern etc, bring up Adam's past when discussing the peace process over a number of years?

If Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson and the DUP can move on, why can M. Martin do the same.

I believe it is a clear indication that FF are very worried about SF taking some of their votes.

its a clear indication fianna fail believe they might end up been the 4th largest party in the dail , ogh the shame

johnmcdnl

me thinks FF are starting to get afraid that SF will overtake FF in the election leaving FF in 4th place

seeing as SF/IRA decommissioned their arms and stopped fighting years ago FF are really starting to dig into the past to try to smear Adams - surely Micheal Martin could find something slightly more relevant such as SF's economic policies to target SF with...

fair enough Adams probably has a bit of blood on his hands alright but without Adams role in the peace process the Provos might still be bombing away....

Wasn't Adams also one of the main leaders within SF who started to try to make democratic steps to peace/freedom in the north

yes he's got flaws - but Michael Martin and FF are hardly in a position to cast stones are they...

Noreen1

Does anyone else find it significant that Michael Martin only made his allegations about Gerry Adams past when Gerry Adams said he was not in favour of white collar crime during the leaders debate?

I'm not a fan of Gerry Adams, but I think he hit a nerve......:D

yermanoffthetv

danbohan wrote: »

its a clear indication fianna fail believe they might end up been the 4th largest party in the dail , ogh the shame

Sand

I think Gerry Adams activities in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are fair game in a political discussion. Gerry likes to pretend he was off contemplating the mysteries of the universe in some windswept monastary perched on a rock off the coast of Ireland during that time, waiting to be called home to lead his people to the promised land when they tired of killing and were willing to follow his patient and pacifist teachings. If he wants to then try moralise about transparency, accountability and honesty in government hes going to get asked difficult questions about his own transparency, accountability and honesty when it comes to his own past.

People (including the OP) after all are giving Micheal Martin stick, asking where he was for the past 14 years when he talks about the need to reform the government.

LordSutch

danbohan wrote: »

they will be scared , very scared

Is that^ meant to be a joke at the expense of his/their victims :cool:

sparkling sea

Glad to see Micheal Martin can stop the bleedin obvious - I am surprised to see he had the courage to say it though.

femur61

MM rightly so is questioning Adams about his involvment in the IRA but not out belief he thinks the electorate deserve honesty, he just sees his party being seriously threatened by SF.

aidan24326

sparkling sea wrote: »

Glad to see Micheal Martin can stop the bleedin obvious - I am surprised to see he had the courage to say it though.

Courage bedamned. When was the last time an Irish politician showed courage? Many others have accused Adams of IRA membership in the past, and in any case to say that he has strong links with that organisation is hardly news at this stage.

No, this is about Martin looking to take a cheap shot and score some electoral points, nothing more. Because the polls are telling him that SF may well finish third in this election ahead of FF, and are in contention to take a number of FF seats. Don't be fooled that it's anything other than that.

Sand wrote: »

I think Gerry Adams activities in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are fair game in a political discussion. Gerry likes to pretend he was off contemplating the mysteries of the universe in some windswept monastary perched on a rock off the coast of Ireland during that time.....

Look we all know Adams background, and people can make up their own mind whether they'd vote for him or not given that background. But the issue here is that Martin is simply playing the election game, and his comments should be seen in that context. Look at this way, in a hypothetical world, if it was looking likely that FF and SF were going to form the next coalition government, do you think Martin would be taking such shots at Gerry Adams then?

DeVore

They havent gone away you know...1 (Jerry McCabe's family that is).


DeV.
1.About the IRA. Adams was addressing a demonstration in Belfast in August 1995, when a member of crowd called out to him to "bring back the IRA". In an unscripted reply Adams made this remark.

sparkling sea

aidan24326 wrote: »

Courage bedamned. When was the last time an Irish politician showed courage? Many others have accused Adams of IRA membership in the past, and in any case to say that he has strong links with that organisation is hardly news at this stage.

Courage was probably the wrong word.

Lots of things in Ireland are hardly news, it was hardly news that Bertie was cunning and corrupt but that didn't stop us voting him and his party in 3 times, even in 2007.

People need to hammer home exactly what Gerry Adams can negate in the name of politics, murder, robbery,etc.

We need people not to let us forget what has happened to our country through illict practices by our government - the same theory should apply to Gerry Adams illict practices

Joey the lips

This tactic by fianna fail and indeed the other parties is going to continue. imo its simple you look at many areas of ireland and those doing all the work on the ground tend to join either labour or sinn fein. Why... Because they now thats who is doing the work.

Whats astounding is Eamon gilmore and pat rabbit have never been interviewed by any paper on there past association with Official sinn fein who of course were official IRA and who eventually left the people of the Bogside to defend themselves thus spauning the foundation of the Provisionals.

I heard a women on the radio say yesterday that gerry adams needs to "Prove" he was not in the IRA. i thought this sad. Rather than look at the work thats done in her community she is focusing on popularity. In otherwords the reason Bertie got in.

,Micael lowry when in Fine Gael was shown to have a shady and doddgy dealings. However his work on the ground will always see him elected and i applaud this.

People are not focused on the issues in this election. If they were then fianna fail would actually not do so bad. People are focused on personality. Its the " I think he looks lovely" comment that really does my nut in they clearly have not learnt anything from charlies shirts.

Its pure rubbish to suggest that Fianna fail can use a photo oppertunity for elections to have bertie in the fore of Gerry Adams and John Hume(Both socialist democratic) and then deny Gerry Adams has the right to run here which forming an allience with the SDLP. Its the "not in my back garden analogy"

I have never voted on popularity. I have worked with the youth service for years. I vote for those who does there best to provide for this service. I vote for those who do the work.

Monty Burnz

Joey the lips wrote: »

,Micael lowry when in Fine Gael was shown to have a shady and doddgy dealings. However his work on the ground will always see him elected and i applaud this.

And I despair about that attitude. So Lowry and his kind 'help' people get passports or medical cards or whatever, or pull strings for people to get stuff that they shouldn't. In return they receive a huge salary and expenses they could live off alone.

Do you know how much Michael Lowry cost the state when he was handing out the mobile phone licences? What other dodgy dealings was he involved in to bilk the taxpayer out of money?

Absolute disgrace, as are those people who vote for him and gombeen men like him.

maccored

DeVore wrote: »

They havent gone away you know...1 (Jerry McCabe's family that is).


DeV.
1.About the IRA. Adams was addressing a demonstration in Belfast in August 1995, when a member of crowd called out to him to "bring back the IRA". In an unscripted reply Adams made this remark.

When he said that in 1995, the IRA hadn't gone away. They didnt officially go away for about another decade so therefore he was telling the truth.

ISAW

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

But if Meehole Martin is so concerned SF, how come he doesn't do the same with Labour regarding the "Rusty Guns" otherwise known as Offical Sinn Fein with Gilmore, Rabbite, Kathleen Lynch and their 'fundraising' activites in the 70's and 80's and 90's, connections to Romania Communist dictator Ceausescu, counterfeit dollars and North Korea etc

Regardless, all very, very rich coming from FF the party of the ol' brown paper bag :mad:

Well this is the central issue! Martin got angry about Adams suggesting about corporate crime. Put it this way. Adams was in government in N Ireland. suppose Martin said "Northern Ireland has a problem with banks and criminals" ( referring to the Northern Bank Job and Republican connections) Adams might well have retorted talk of criminality in banking is very morally moral high ground when bankers under the current government got away with murder.

Martin was only pointing out that Adams talking about criminals was rich coming from Adams' terrorist linked background.

LordSutch wrote: »

I am still very angry about 'That period' as you call it, the wounds are still there, and I wont forget what he stands for, or what Sinn Fein stands for, I remember well Mr Adams carrying too many IRA coffins (the coffins of his men) usually dispatched while on their way to plant Bombs, I will never forgive Adams for what he did (in his past life) Pre-94. I have absolutely no time for Sinn Fein or their supporters, and if they come knocking at my hall door during this election I will politely tell them to go away, (while I grit my teeth).

Another central issue! It would appear the SF position is Adams was never active in the PIRA but did support them and knew people in the IRA. But Gilmore and others knew the same of OIRA linked people. We never hear much about that.

tipptom wrote: »

Martins ff dna comes from the time of other parties putting up posters of ff candidates as shadowy figures with the slogan of" keep out the gunmen" thats not that long ago so he cant be to pious about their own past,Adams should just ask martin about what percentage of ff builder supporters,ff councillers,ff td s,ff ministers,ff taosaighs have been under investigation in tribunels etc for corruption as compared to any other party in Ireland.

considering around 2000 FF had over about half of the 1000 or so nationally elected TDs Senators and councillors and SF had 21 councillors and 1 TD (source: http://electionsireland.org/results/general/28dail.cfm)
the ratio of FF to SF was 25 to 1 so for every SF councilor involved in a scandal you would have to have 25 FF people just to reach parity.

Cant understand why any party does not come up with this figure because it would babecue Martin in a debate.
By the way,not a SF supporter or voter but do have some sympathy as a clearly biased middle class media with well known political affiliations go for them so aggresivley compared to the carpet ride for other parties.

I agree, especically to OIRA WP communist background of Labour compared to PIRA background of SF. FF also have an IRA background but took the path SF too in the 1990s back in 1927.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sorry, there i was thinking we lived in 2011 and not 1922. Time for Gerry to come clean.

I think Adams has said he was not in the IRA in the sense of involved in planning or carrying out IRA activities. It is a bit like the Minister of justice saying that he is not involved in Garda operational matters.

johnmcdnl wrote: »

me thinks FF are starting to get afraid that SF will overtake FF in the election leaving FF in 4th place

While they are both Republican FF are totally economically different to SF.

FF votes are probably going to independents. I would have thought Labour were set to take up the working class FF vote but I think Labour have vacated this region leaving SF, new left and independents take up FF voters. I would never have thought FG would get FF votes but the surge in FG is so strong they must be getting some of the FF votes.

seeing as SF/IRA decommissioned their arms and stopped fighting years ago FF are really starting to dig into the past to try to smear Adams

Not so many years ago. Three or four. And people have still been killed since. FF would mainly agree with SF on REpublican issues just not in theior support of terrorism and intimidation and certainly not on marxist or leftie bananas economics.

so if A SF person was to say something about economics or how to schieve a united Ireland a FF person would immediately be likely to be in that mode.

- surely Micheal Martin could find something slightly more relevant such as SF's economic policies to target SF with...

He could but Adams raised the issue of criminals {/b] in relation to bankers and linked it to FF. Martin was only retorting with "Gerry you are one to be referring to criminals?" much in they same way that someone might question a convicted pedophile critiquing FF policy on a moral issue.

fair enough Adams probably has a bit of blood on his hands alright but without Adams role in the peace process the Provos might still be bombing away....

True but how does his getting the IRA to stop give him moral authority to tell some other group how they should behave?

Wasn't Adams also one of the main leaders within SF who started to try to make democratic steps to peace/freedom in the north

Yes maybe. So what? How does his influencing the IRA to stop bombing give him moral authority to tell some other group how they should behave? I mean "I got the IRA to stop robbing them so listen to me when I tell you about banks and their policies" - isn't a very strong position is it?

yes he's got flaws - but Michael Martin and FF are hardly in a position to cast stones are they...

Which is exactly the point Martin was making with "you are one to lecture me on criminality"

femur61 wrote: »

MM rightly so is questioning Adams about his involvment in the IRA but not out belief he thinks the electorate deserve honesty, he just sees his party being seriously threatened by SF.

See above. I don't think FF will be sucked dry by SF. What wold be of interest is to see FF run candidates up north.

aidan24326 wrote: »

Courage bedamned. When was the last time an Irish politician showed courage? Many others have accused Adams of IRA membership in the past, and in any case to say that he has strong links with that organisation is hardly news at this stage.

But it is in relation to Gilmore and other Labour people in unions etc. I am referring to OIRA connections. Yet we hardly ever hear about that. I wonder why?

, if it was looking likely that FF and SF were going to form the next coalition government, do you think Martin would be taking such shots at Gerry Adams then?

Frankly? Yes I do.

DeVore wrote: »

They havent gone away you know...1 (Jerry McCabe's family that is).

1.About the IRA. Adams was addressing a demonstration in Belfast in August 1995, when a member of crowd called out to him to "bring back the IRA". In an unscripted reply Adams made this remark.

I remember the date. I got the impression he was appealing to the a tradition to vote for his lot. I would add that the IRA had reasons for being there namely
1. fighting for a united Ireland with the consent of the Irish people
2. policing areas where law and order had broken down

The GFA ( in SF's view ) removed reason 1 but not reason 2 which will only re removed when SF get a say into running the police. so it is a valid comment.

DeVore

I remember the date. I got the impression he was appealing to the a tradition to vote for his lot. I would add that the IRA had reasons for being there namely
1. fighting for a united Ireland with the consent of the Irish people
2. policing areas where law and order had broken down

What consent?!

When did the Irish people mandate the IRA to "fight" (read: bomb from a distance) for them??


I was born there mate. Lagan Valley Hospital, 1970. They didnt police SH*T. My father, a catholic and a nationalist, had his car put on an IRA bomb list because he dared to house all families who were homeless in the local school, regardless of religion.


You have no clue what went on up there. They are gangsters, criminals, pimps, drug dealers, protectionists and racketeers and they havent gone away you know.

Gerry Adams protesting against criminality is like Monica Lewinsky, f*cking for virginity.

DeV.

Monty Burnz

DeVore wrote: »

What consent?!

When did the Irish people mandate the IRA to "fight" (read: bomb from a distance) for them??


DeV.

I seem to recall IRA support in the Republic in the 80s and certainly in the 90s was virtually nil. 'Revulsion' would be the word I would most closely associate with people's attitudes to their activities at the time.

caseyann

I hope it backfires on the yellow bellied pathetic idiot.Poor sad attempts to big himself up out of fear of the growing popularity of Sinn Féin.
Letter to Bertie back in 2005
A Thaoisigh,

I am writing to you to refute in the strongest possible terms the allegation you made that the Sinn Fein leadership had prior knowledge of the Northern Bank robbery and to express my deep concern at this ill-founded comment and the damage that it has caused to our working relationship and to the process. As you know I value and have acknowledged your significant contribution to the peace process. During the negotiations leading to the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 and in the years since you have played a leadership role in the collective endeavour of sustaining and pushing forward the peace process. Of course, there have been differences between us. That is the nature of a process like this. For your part the Irish government has been concerned at times over Sinn Féin’s attitude to issues. And in Sinn Fein’s view the Irish government has not always behaved as an equal partner in its dealings with the British government. But until recently both the government and the Sinn Féin leadership have not allowed these differences to upset the imperative and the primacy of the search for peace in our country.

Your decision to attack Sinn Féin and your allegation that our leadership was aware in advance of the Northern Bank robbery has put a huge question mark over this. As you know Sinn Fein’s peace strategy is based in part on Irish nationalist and republican parties working with the Irish government to advance the peace process and its promise of fundamental constitutional and political change, of an all-Ireland framework and of equality and human rights for all citizens. You have acknowledged how Sinn Féin has worked closely with the Irish government to advance this agenda. Whatever political differences there are between the Sinn Féin leadership and the Irish government we have never misled you or acted in bad faith with you, your Ministers or government officials. Such an approach would be entirely contradictory and counter-productive. It would completely under mine our peace strategy - a strategy which Sinn Féin is totally committed to and have invested so much in.

The Sinn Féin leadership, and Martin McGuinness and I had no prior knowledge of the Northern Bank robbery. When remarks attributed to you saying you thought we had such knowledge appeared in the print media last Friday I phoned Michael Collins and asked him to convey my concerns about this matter to you. I told him I did this more in disappointment than anger. I asked for a meeting with you, not least because I believed that if you had such concerns then they should have been put directly to us.
The political fallout from the recrimination and accusations surrounding the bank robbery has clearly compounded the difficulties in the process following the DUP refusal to come on board in December. In addition to this your specific accusations against the Sinn Fein leadership are enormously damaging to the working relationship between us and are undermining efforts to try and secure the comprehensive deal, which we are all working towards. I am writing to you to ask that you address my concerns as a matter of urgency. I am still waiting for a response to our request for a meeting and the phone call to discuss these matters did not happen. These matters are too serious. They need to be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

Bunch of chickens who kiss EU and bankers butts and each others,and pee all over the Irish people.
Pity people werent so brainwashed and remember those whiter than white who are making the accusations lied for how long about the banking crisis and buried their heads in the sand.:rolleyes:
And the attacks are feeble and nothing more than scaremongering and causing a imbalance in our country yet again.

Any of those political parties who quip out accusations such as these in the middle of an election are nothing more than pathetic and sad.
Not a single ounce of proof.Funny all those who constantly say proof links blah blah and so quick to jump on bandwagon because it suits them for their own agenda and prejudice now have no proof.Barr the words of politicians who lied to the whole country in favour of bankers and foreign investors over the good of the Irish people,the ones who watched the health service fall into disarray and watched people die and knew that Irish people were going to lose their jobs.And these are the people you are voting for and listening to?
All these accusation based on this one thing( Bertie Ahern was convinced?????????????????????????????) He was the biggest liar of them all)

In a joint statement this morning, Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness rejected accusations that they knew the robbery was going to take place.

“We both absolutely rejected these unfounded allegations at the time and do so again today. We publicly and privately challenged Bertie Ahern to produce evidence to support his allegations. He didn’t. We told him they were groundless and untrue," it said. "It was and is our view that this had more to do with the electoral rivalries between Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil".

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1213/breaking13.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/wikileaks-gerry-adams-denies-ira-and-bank-robbery-claims-2459019.html

Gerry Adams has denied all allegations he was an IRA leader and denied he had any Knowledge of the bank robbery.
And the Irish government said they had solid proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where is the proof??????????????????????????????? Come on prove it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams would state that the operation was "not authorised by the Army Council, but authorised at a lower level by an authorised person".[4][8] Initially, the killing was denounced by the leadership of Sinn Féin, but later the party lobbied for the early release of McCabe's killers under the terms of the Belfast Agreement.[8] In 2005, the prisoners stated that they did not want their release "to be part of any further negotiations with the Irish government."[9]


Seriously something wrong with that picture.

ISAW

DeVore wrote: »

What consent?!

When did the Irish people mandate the IRA to "fight" (read: bomb from a distance) for them??


DeV.

SF ( and the current RIRA) people would view it that way. the Second Dail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_D%C3%A1il#The_Second_D.C3.A1il_in_post-Treaty_Republican_tradition

Within Irish republicanism there is a current of thought which argues that the Second Dáil continued to exist after the establishment of the Irish Free State. As the Second Dáil was the last Dáil to be democratically elected by all the people of Ireland rather than merely those within the newly partitioned 26-county state in the south, it is regarded by many Irish republicans to be the last legitimately elected Dáil. In December 1938, a group of seven people[4], who had been elected to the Second Dáil in 1921, met with the IRA Army Council under Seán Russell. At this meeting, the seven signed over what they believed was the authority of the Government of Dáil Éireann to the Army Council until such a time as a new Dáil could once again be democratically elected by all the people of Ireland in all 32 counties. Henceforth, the IRA Army Council perceived itself to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic.

Here is whow I would think about it:
Given the GFA was assented to by the whole Island SF would think that this rescinds the Army Council. RIRA would differ in that the Unionist veto over the whole Island vote reinforces the Army council.

ISAW

DeVore wrote: »

What consent?!

I was born there mate.

And Dev was born on route to the US. So what?

You have no clue what went on up there. They are gangsters, criminals, pimps, drug dealers, protectionists and racketeers and they havent gone away you know.

Yes. I made all these points in my post.

Gerry Adams protesting against criminality is like Monica Lewinsky, f*cking for virginity.

which I also indicated was Michael Martin's point when Adams criticised him on morality in banking!

ISAW

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I seem to recall IRA support in the Republic in the 80s and certainly in the 90s was virtually nil. 'Revulsion' would be the word I would most closely associate with people's attitudes to their activities at the time.

Indeed right up to the 1970s IRA support in the North was nil! Arther Griffith's SF in 1905 to 1916 was totally different from the SF of today. Labour represented the socialist/marxist aspect and the IRB were a fringe element. It was the British execution and imprisonment on leaders that spurred popular support for IRB/IRA. Similarly Civil rights were the popular movement and the treatment of them by unionists and British Army spurred them to support the IRA in the 1970s.

Monty Burnz

caseyann wrote: »

I hope it backfires on the yellow bellied pathetic idiot.Poor sad attempts to big himself up out of fear of the growing popularity of Sinn Féin.

So, to summarise your post, Gerry Adams could not possibly have known about the Northern Bank robbery (and possibly IRA murders etc?) because Fianna Fail made a total balls of the economy and financial system?

caseyann

This crap is nothing more than trying to sway votes,so maybe Sinn Féin are doing better in the polls than the media is letting on.
And they are the ones running scared
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/adams-now-threatens-to-sue-us-over-his-ira-past-2542489.html

For the first time, Adams has threatened to sue for defamation over claims of his IRA past.

Adams has always denied allegations he was involved in Ms McConville's death. “I reject absolutely any accusation that I had any hand or part in the killing and disappearing of Jean McConville or in any of the other allegations that are being promoted,” he has said.

caseyann

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So, to summarise your post, Gerry Adams could not possibly have known about the Northern Bank robbery (and possibly IRA murders etc?) because Fianna Fail made a total balls of the economy and financial system?

You know that is not what i am saying,and stop editing my post out to suit your own agenda
So try it on with someone else.
Running scared perhaps i am right and Sinn Féin have more of a backing than you and others would like so start all this rubbish.
Where is the proof why hasn't he been brought to court,why hasnt he been charged,why hasnt it been publicly printed this so called proof?
Because there is none.

I hope he does sue them and the family of jean Mc conville.
I would imagine he didnt want to drag them through the courts so not to upset them anymore and not look like a scum bag for doing that to them.
But by him not dragging them through the courts and proving himself innocent he is only giving them ammunition.
He should sue them all bunch of wasters.

Monty Burnz

caseyann wrote: »

Adams has always denied allegations he was involved in Ms McConville's death. “I reject absolutely any accusation that I had any hand or part in the killing and disappearing of Jean McConville or in any of the other allegations that are being promoted,” he has said.

He isn't in a position to threaten his old friend and IRA hero Brendan Hughes, who I believe stated publically that Adams ordered the death of Mrs. McConville.

Monty Burnz

caseyann wrote: »

Where is the proof why hasn't he been brought to court,why hasnt he been charged,why hasnt it been publicly printed this so called proof?
Because there is none.

Bertie Ahern has never been charged with anything either. Therefore Bertie Ahern is squeaky clean and never did anything wrong. :rolleyes:

Monty Burnz

caseyann wrote: »

He should sue them all bunch of wasters.

You have a perverse sense of justice. Their mother was murdered by Adams and his buddies, so they are a bunch of wasters?

An interesting insight into the Shinner mindset.

caseyann

Monty Burnz wrote: »

He isn't in a position to threaten his old friend and IRA hero Brendan Hughes, who I believe stated publically that Adams ordered the death of Mrs. McConville.

Where did he publically say that? And you are going to take the word of someone who perhaps didnt want to make peace and was pissed off they did?Or the man who fought long and hard and saw it through?
Let me think i pick the second.;)

In 2000, he criticised the Sinn Féin leadership for allowing building firms in west Belfast to pay low wages to former prisoners and stated his belief that the republican leadership had sold out on their ideals in order to achieve peace in Northern Ireland.