Triple H Named The Most Overrated Wrestler Of All-time

drayme

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Ok well you asked for one good match after 1993.

Curt Hennig v Bret Hart in 1997.

Also can I ask why you are asking for matches post-1993 and not pre-1993?

Sigh read my post but in case you didn't it is because he had a relatively short run as a top class worker a phase which ended completely in 1993 IMO. I asked for matches post 1993 to back up that fact to prove that point.

I thought that match was decent and the reaction to it at the time was that it was a let down. Hennig was not the best part of that match either as well. But you think that the match was "fantastic" have at it hoss but one match does not disprove my point.

I dont enjoy being called completely ignorant either btw especially from someone who spends as little time reading my posts.

D.Q

drayme wrote: »

Sigh read my post but in case you didn't it is because he had a relatively short run as a top class worker a phase which ended completely in 1993 IMO. I asked for matches post 1993 to back up that fact to prove that point.

I thought that match was decent and the reaction to it at the time was that it was a let down. Hennig was not the best part of that match either as well. But you think that the match was "fantastic" have at it hoss but one match does not disprove my point.

I dont enjoy being called completely ignorant either btw especially from someone who spends as little time reading my posts.

please don't do this again. Whats the point?

Exclamation Marc

drayme wrote: »

Sigh read my post but in case you didn't it is because he had a relatively short run as a top class worker a phase which ended completely in 1993 IMO. I asked for matches post 1993 to back up that fact to prove that point.

I thought that match was decent and the reaction to it at the time was that it was a let down. Hennig was not the best part of that match either as well. But you think that the match was "fantastic" have at it hoss but one match does not disprove my point.

I dont enjoy being called completely ignorant either btw especially from someone who spends as little time reading my posts.

His top class worker career having a short run depends on when your opinion of his top class worker career starting (pardon the brutal english) is, and that career hit its heights around 1986ish. He went on to be the AWA's top dog for about a year straight when he was the company #1 where he put on some fantastic matches. Prior to that he had great matches with Bockwinkel as well as good tag matches involving Scott Hall. When he got to WWF he was involved in some good matches with Bret Hart, Tito Santana amongst others.

So whilst 85/86 - 93 may be short in some peoples eyes, I think putting on very very good matches for an eight year period is an extraordinary career. Then when he was in WCW for a short few years in the late 90s he certainly added a few more good matches to his back catalogue.

drayme

FireballPitcher wrote: »

His top class worker career having a short run depends on when your opinion of his top class worker career starting (pardon the brutal english) is, and that career hit its heights around 1986ish. He was the AWA's top dog for about a year where he put on some fantastic matches. Prior to that he had great matches with Bockwinkel as well as good tag matches involving Scott Hall. When he got to WWF he was involved in some good matches with Bret Hart, Tito Santana amongst others.

So whilst 85/86 - 93 may be short in some peoples eyes, I think putting on very very good matches for an eight year period is an extraordinary career. Then when he was in WCW for a short few years in the late 90s he certainly added a few more good matches to his back catalogue.

Despite being labelled completely ignorant here I'm well aware of his career.

To me Hennig as an above average wrestler who was really good for most of his career and had a great gimmick in the WWF, but bombed whenever he was put in a headlining position. It took him ages to get over in the WWF until Lanny Poffo was added as his manager.

Hennig does not compare favorably to Savage, DiBiase, Rude or any other workhorse heel of his era. Evidently quite a few fans are marks for him for reasons that include getting the dvd treatment while Dibiase/Rude didn't and how much of a successful his gimmick was.

Even if you believe he's a top worker/wrestler, his peak was woefully short due to injuries. He as a worker was exposed in WCW as he couldn't build his matches around his outrageous bumping anymore.

Sorry but he is vastly overrated on a lot of fronts.

CMpunked

Welcome back trevor!

Ridley

D.Q wrote: »

Seriously? How so? and by who?

The complaints leveled at Cena are the ones I had about Austin at the time. The inevitability of a Stunner win or lose didn't appeal to me, largely punch/kick moveset and I don't like protagonists who are too powerful.

parker kent

Ridley wrote: »

The complaints leveled at Cena are the ones I had about Austin at the time. The inevitability of a Stunner win or lose didn't appeal to me, largely punch/kick moveset and I don't like protagonists who are too powerful.

I agree that Austin was booked to be near invincible and he played a role in holding down other wrestlers by refusing to work with him, but he is not over rated. Check out his early career matches in The Hollywood Blondes as an example of how good a wrestler he actually was. The neck injury necessitated he change his style but it still didn't prevent him having excellent matches. He could have a great brawl one week and a great 20 minute wrestling match with Benoit the week after. I think it is a bit unfair to label him a punch/kick wrestler when he had much more in the locker, and just as importantly he knew how to put on a great match.

I think the list in the OP is just a swipe at Internet favourites (and oddly Triple H who is far from an Internet favourite). There is certainly value in countering the reputation that the Internet gives some guys, but that list is basically a very bad Devil's Advocate. They also seem to forget that HHH was playing a heel, so naturally his pushes would be different from Hogan, Austin etc. He was a great heel and his feud with The Rock created the situation for The Rock to become such a big star.

Exclamation Marc

parker kent wrote: »

I agree that Austin was booked to be near invincible and he played a role in holding down other wrestlers by refusing to work with him, but he is not over rated. Check out his early career matches in The Hollywood Blondes as an example of how good a wrestler he actually was. The neck injury necessitated he change his style but it still didn't prevent him having excellent matches. He could have a great brawl one week and a great 20 minute wrestling match with Benoit the week after. I think it is a bit unfair to label him a punch/kick wrestler when he had much more in the locker, and just as importantly he knew how to put on a great match.

I agree, there's much more to an in-ring performer than his moveset. It's the in-ring psychology, the "presence", and the general personality of the performer, or as parkerkent said "knowing how to put on a great match".

I personally would rather have a guy who's somewhat limited in his moveset if he brings with him a presence or psychology to the ring than a guy who is extremely physically talented but is unable to tell a story. I mean you can have a guy in there who can throw hundreds of variants of suplexes or throws, but if he can't tell a story and bring with him a psychology and presence, its just a phyiscal demonstration, and we all know that pro wrestling is more than that.

ricero

No way it's hhh for me it's either hogan or mr Anderson

jmolloy

Ridley wrote: »

The complaints leveled at Cena are the ones I had about Austin at the time. The inevitability of a Stunner win or lose didn't appeal to me, largely punch/kick moveset and I don't like protagonists who are too powerful.

Austin coud still pull out some absolute blinders tho I remember his match against Benoit on a smackdown which was as technical as they come but he obviously couldn't work that style with the injury, didn't suit the character either to be fair

Hogan is the most overrated of all time imo

Rjd2

Lads ye know you have been trolled right? :

flahavaj

CMpunked wrote: »

Welcome back trevor!

Heh beat me to it.:pac:

No overrated list can be complete without Kurt Angle featuring heavily. He's a good wrestler, not a great wrestler, Bill.

the groutch

how is Samoa Joe not in that list?

thebostoncrab

The problem with Joe is he was once one of the best wrestlers in the planet. Then he became lazy and started getting heat with TNA.

I don't think Joe is over-rated, just hasn't shown the love for wrestling that he once had.


I agree with some of the list but it's just one guys view. HHH shouldn't be in a list like this though...

TBH I'm having a tough time thinking of who I consider over-rated, the two closest I can think of from todays wrestlers are John Morrison and Desmond Wolfe...and I think I'll get shot for this, but I think Kendo Nagasaki is over-rated. All the respect in the world for him, but I find it hard at times to get into his matches.

parker kent

The list is also published on a not-exactly reputable website for wrestling discussion.

jaykhunter

Suffice to say I disagree with a lot on this list. But on Triple H; I thought I'd give my thoughts before reading others.....

I'll preface my answer by saying that I despise Triple H. The rubber-faced bastard ruined careers to saveguard his career --a career that was safest in the entire company, since he's walloping the bosses' daughter. He buried stars like RVD, Booker T, Kane, Umaga - wrestlers that could've drawn money and this is somewhat responsible for the state of wrestling today, and directly responsible for turning me into a blisteringly happy wrestling fan to a jaded cynic.

The most bitter pill to swallow is that I highly rated Triple H in 97-2001, when he was the Kliq's bitch and working his way up the ranks. I thought his KOTR win in 97 was well-deserved. I enjoyed his promos with the Original DX more than Shawn's. I was pissed on his behalf that Austin wouldn't drop the belt to him at SummerSlam 1999. But as I continued to watch, I found out some horrible truths. It won't go unknown that he really tried his best to put the kibosh on Jericho in 99, buried him in 2002, and smack-talked him even again in 2007; whilst his worthless mates getting more attention and clout than they deserved. 2003-2005 was a horrible time to be watching RAW, aka The Triple H show.

I could easily continue, but it's not like that everyone doesn't know all this already about Triple H! But there's two types of smarks, those who forgive triple h and move on, and those who don't. And I don't, and the above is why. But here's my opinion on the "overrated" claim :

-end of preamble-

Triple H is one of the smoothest wrestlers in WWF/E history. He very, very rarely has a bad match. His matches all tell some kind of interesting story. Triple H is an extremely hard worker who gets wrestling. He injects psychology into his actions, and is very good on the mic. To cap it off, he really, really looks the part. The WWF title and World title look like they were made for Triple H. So in every aspect, he's a champion -- he walks like a champion, he talks like a champion, he wrestlers like a champion, and looks like a champion. He also does nothing but eat and breathe this industry. He studies old tapes and has tremendous respect for the business. It's nothing to do with him in himself, but it's worth noting that the dude always has the coolest merchandise. cool theme and cool gimmick. So apart from his despicable selfish deeds, he's absolutely everything you'd look for in a wrestler.

Thanks to his consistent burial of potential future stars -- much like Hulk Hogan -- he's positioned himself as one of the ONLY top draws in the WWE today. So in addition to checking all the boxes needed to be champion, he's also the guy who puts butts on seats.

Despite all of the bad points I have to say about him; he is definitely not overrated. He's a selfish prick with numerous horrific counts of sabotaging/politiking, but with a lot of skill and extreme dedication, he's one of the best overall and highest drawing wrestlers today.

parker kent

Have to agree with Jayk. Great wrestler, shame he held back so many possible top stars. Umaga and RVD could have been much, much more if they got the push that others have over the years. RVD was already dead in the water when he he got the WWE title thanks to Big Nose. Same with Jericho, he can never shake off that "just under the main event" image he has thanks to HHH and Goldberg.

rossie1977

hhh is over-rated for sure, number one on the list not sure though, christian, rvd over-rated by the iwc big time and i agree with the guy that said hennig was done as an in-ring competitor by 1993, it was a huge mistake him coming back, he should have stayed collecting his lloyds insurance money

hogan drew money everywhere he went, if anything hogan is underrated by alot of fans, the guy could wrestle, if you watch back his japanese matches in 1982-83 you would see he was more than a big boot/leg drop guy

jaykhunter

I agree about RVD. The dude can't really tell a story and his promos are in the gutter. But he holds considerable weight and goodwill with the fans and the IWC and was crazy over in 2001 before he was buried, much like CM Punk in 2006. He definitely deserved much better. Who knows how much he would've improved with the rocket on his back. As PK said he was dead in the water when WWE decided to back him 5 years later.

I suppose the same could be said about Christian but the dude is very solid on the mic and in the ring. Not that WWE ever went fully behind him - he's worth a trying as a transitional reign at least, and was the reason I started watching TNA in the first place. The fact that he's the #1 IWC heart-throb despite WWE's booking means the most discerning wrestling fans see a lot in him; and "we've" been proven right with also backing Punk and Danielson, when WWE actually give them a chance to shine.

Rossie what's this about Hennig and Lloyds of London? Or do you mean Bret Hart?

With regards to Hogan, although I've seen his early 80s and some 70s stuff where he was alot smoother and quicker, his mat-prowess has never been his forte. I wouldn't consider him overrated as he's arguably the biggest/best face AND heel of all time! He also happens to be (imo) the best crowd-worker in the history of wrestling!

The guy was (and positioned himself to be) the biggest star in wrestling of our generation, and has the box office receipts to back it up. The guy can hardly be overrated. I doubt Cenass or other stars would still be a draw when they're 58.

parker kent

rossie1977 wrote: »

hhh is over-rated for sure, number one on the list not sure though, christian, rvd over-rated by the iwc big time and i agree with the guy that said hennig was done as an in-ring competitor by 1993, it was a huge mistake him coming back, he should have stayed collecting his lloyds insurance money

hogan drew money everywhere he went, if anything hogan is underrated by alot of fans, the guy could wrestle, if you watch back his japanese matches in 1982-83 you would see he was more than a big boot/leg drop guy

Can you really blame Hennig for suffering a massive injury? He had a great career up until then and had some of the greatest matches in WWF/E history as well as a stellar pre-WWF career.

Exclamation Marc

parker kent wrote: »

Can you really blame Hennig for suffering a massive injury? He had a great career up until then and had some of the greatest matches in WWF/E history as well as a stellar pre-WWF career.

He has also had an above-par career for a few years in WCW afterwards. He in no way tarnished his career and put on some great matches in WCW.

parker kent

FireballPitcher wrote: »

He has also had an above-par career for a few years in WCW afterwards. He in no way tarnished his career and put on some great matches in WCW.

Oh yeah I know he did, but that is not what he is remembered for or why he has such a reputation. He was an above average wrestler in WCW but was a great wrestler in the WWF.

rossie1977

Jay, hennig was collecting big money on a lloyds insurance policy (i have read millions per year in some articles), once he came back his policy was null and void

parker kent wrote: »

Can you really blame Hennig for suffering a massive injury? He had a great career up until then and had some of the greatest matches in WWF/E history as well as a stellar pre-WWF career.

you can't blame him for getting injured, but there was no reason for him to come back, he was a shadow of his former self and like ultimo dragon and terry gordy for me he did tarnish his legacy. curt should have followed ted dibiases lead and not wrestled again

jaykhunter

rossie1977 wrote: »

Jay, hennig was collecting big money on a lloyds insurance policy (i have read millions per year in some articles), once he came back his policy was null and void

So he lost out on millions just to get buried by Austin? And yes buried in the kick-out-of-your-finisher-real-quick-beat-you-and-no-rematch-see-you-on-heat buried! :(

Exclamation Marc

rossie1977 wrote: »

you can't blame him for getting injured, but there was no reason for him to come back, he was a shadow of his former self and like ultimo dragon and terry gordy for me he did tarnish his legacy. curt should have followed ted dibiases lead and not wrestled again

Some people enjoy what they do, and not just the paycheck they receive, if his true love was wrestling then why is that "no reason" to come back. You also never know the intricacies of his insurance, his payments may have ran out, he may have been forced to do a medical which showed he was in good enough health to compete, so maybe he wanted to come back or maybe he had no choice as payments dried up.

Have you seen all his WCW matches? His match against Hart was a highlight, and to my mind he never had matches where he was unable to compete at near enough the highest level or looked a shadow of his former self. He never had the Kevin Nash effect where you were looking at the guy cringing at his inabilities. You can't legislate for shítty booking, if he's booked into a squash thats the bookers decisions, but when he was given the chance he put on a masterclass.

drayme

parker kent wrote: »

Can you really blame Hennig for suffering a massive injury?

I can blame him for his bad attitude, drinking and drugging. You are talking about someone who was so loaded he collapsed live on Nitro.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

He has also had an above-par career for a few years in WCW afterwards. He in no way tarnished his career and put on some great matches in WCW.

Again name these great matches? You named one the Bret Hart match which most people only regard as decent to good. Sorry but I cant take your opinion seriously currently.

jaykhunter

Gotta agree with ya on this one. I love Mr Perfect but from what I've seen of him in WCW and what wrestlers etc have said about him for whatever reason he was mostly average and phoned in his performances (which could be due to a career-ending injury, but also his drug habit)

I would love to know what WCW PPVs to look out for for great Hennig wrestling matches

Chaotic_Forces

Alright, now firstly I am not saying this is 100% true. But I head after Scott Steiner joined the WWF/WWE he was asked to take a steroid test and he agreed to it; he wanted to do it with HHH. The request was dropped. So basically, I understood that HHH was (at least to me that it was obvious), he used steroids. That honestly did essentially crush a lot of my liking for him.

I never liked him in terms of "Rock VS HHH", root for the bad guy. Although I remember in No Way Out 2000 with his HIAC match agains Foley, there was one spot (I remember hearing that the part with Foley

going through the cell roof was planned, but not the ring. HHH looked concerned after it.

After that I genuinely liked the guy and watched his promos/matches in a new way. But... there was the whole story with one wrestler leaving the company and after a match (HHH was the heel in the story ((this was before Austin's rise to fame)) he hugged the leaving wrestler and was sort of punished by not giving his run), I read that about a year ago and really did gain a lot more respect for him.

But... he honestly was overrated the moment after the entire Invasion angle started, at least for me. I remember I saw the Raw when he returned and I just thought "oh great... this guy again". And then he joins with Flair (who, in my opinion was just done with his career) and Orton. After that it was basically "Hi, I'm HHH, I want to be the boss and now I'm going to be beat you up, thanks!".

the groutch

in short, when you're banging the bosses daughter, you can do whatever you like and get away with it

Bubs101

rude awakening wrote: »

Source: Rajah.com

UGO.com has posted a list counting down the top 25 most overrated wrestlers of all-time. The ranking is topped by 13-time world champion Triple H, who was named Most Overrated in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards on three consecutive occasions (2002-2004), and again in 2009.

Regarding the self-proclaimed "King of Kings", UGO.com wrote: "For too long, Triple H has received a free pass from internet wrestling fans, but we say, "No more!" Sure, he used to be great, but that was before he destroyed his body and moved on to destroying the careers of younger wrestlers. Folks these days like to say that "The King of Kings" makes people into stars, but wrestlers tend to either succeed despite the terrible, emasculating beatings he gives them or just disappear back into the midcard. What's worse is that he does it all with the same four boring, mechanical moves - a fact which goes strangely unnoticed by the world's Cena-bashers, who tend to love "The Game." If Triple H was as great as people say he is, the past 13 years of constant pushes shouldn't have just turned him into another Rock or "Stone Cold," it should have gotten him elected King of the Universe.

"And The Chaperone looks atrocious."

The complete ranking is as follows:
23. Alberto Del Rio
21. Shelton Benjamin
16. Christopher Daniels
14. William Regal
13. Indy Geeks (Mike Quackenbush pictured)
9. Dean Malenko
8. Owen Hart
7. Christian
6. Curt Hennig
5. Miss Elizabeth
4. Jerry "The King" Lawler

Good list is half good, Nice to see people point out just how overrated these guys are on the internet. I love Christian but I can accept the guy should never have been World Champ and never will be. The rest of them are overrated by people who watch ROH and those who say that Macho Man needed ELizabeth, bull****, any pair of tits would suffice

As for HHH, He was integral to DX, a ****ing great heel around the 2000s and while he can be blamed for a alot of the crap that's on TV on the same side of the coin he has to be responsible for alot of the McMahon Helmsley stuff which I loved and he's good in the ring