Mortgage Arrears Problem in Ireland.

Monty Burnz

Welease wrote: »

A bank could take a progressive stance with those in financial trouble and allow extensions without penalities, AND continue to offer revenue generating scheme's for those who don't need to avail of those services..

To my mind, it's better to extend services to those in the hope of over a longer period repaying the complete loan, rather than foreclose on a loan, firesale the asset at below market value, then come back to me the tax payer and ask for further funding to shore up the books. Everyone loses there.

That's certainly one approach and something we might see. There will of course be an element of cross-subsidisation though, with the people who can pay subsidising those who cannot.

Although for those like Westendgirlie, hoping to see very cheap houses, that may not be the way to go as it will put a higher floor on market prices.

Iago

jpb1974 wrote: »

Do you know this for a fact? What percentage of home owners wouldn't dream of having someone rent a room?

What percentage of home owners are in arrears due to losing their jobs as opposed to interest rates increasing?

dolphin city

fliball123 wrote: »

People stating this are complete a$$es IMO for every person/analyst/gov official who said the bubble was unsustainable you had one saying the opposite...Obviously with about 500k people in neg equity about 1/6th of the population (including kids) got caught...but you just keep saying I told you so as if its a solution

its not so much an "i told you so" - its more of a "oh well sh*t happens". However with some of the posts on here from people thinking they are entitled to have their mortgages paid off for them, I agree it is rapidly turning into a non sympathetic 'I told you so'.

westendgirlie

CiaranC wrote: »

Can you explain why you think you should still have the right to own your own home under such situations? Do you have any idea how the world works? Are you actually the 18 year old girl in your example?

I know full well how the world works Ciaran. As this thread has progressed it has been made apparent that house prices will fall and fall further still. I don't think anyone disputes this. It is also apparent that incomes have, and will further fall.

For our future generations, should the cost of said houses not be affordable and inline with the majority of incomes? Or, will there be a class divide of those who own (the "I told you so's" and the "look, I bought your house for next to nothing'rs") and those who can merely rent and by your opinion, don't deserve anything but rent as they haven't an education or a better job"

As I said near the beginning of this thread, a huge injection of JOBS is the only answer. Hitting on people, and families and in alot of places communities, while they are already down doesn't help one bit. The guy who posted about anxiety isn't alone. You lose your home, you lose your family to a far away land, what's left to live for?

Stop rubbing peoples noses in it. Come up with an idea of how this country can start to improve.

Ps: I'm not personally bashing you or anybody else but I've seriously had enough of the hate thy neighbour tripe xxx

Dannyboy83

westendgirlie wrote: »

I'll just class myself as an 18yr old with no dependants for this......

37.5hr week @min wage €287 gross
less
travel to work € 60
rent a room € 65
motor tax/insurance € 30
tv licence/phone/broadband € 20
food € 50

left to save for house € 62.00 x 52 weeks = € 3224.00
x 10 years = €32240

Please bear in mind I haven't taken tax, prsi or usc from income. Also I am 18 and have no qualifications other than leaving cert so probability is I will be on or near min wage for a very long time. How much is a house realistically gonna cost me? 20 or 30 yrs of wearing the same clothes as i'm saving????

The vast majority of people I graduated from University with 7 years ago earn about the current average industrial wage in IT (€31k p.a.) and they cannot contemplate owning their own homes.

You haven't even account for unexpected expenses such as car troubles.

The truth is that you will never acquire a house if you continue to earn the minimum wage, unless you inherit money or something.
In all honesty, you will be lucky just to survive on the minimum wage.

dolphin city

Iago wrote: »

What percentage of home owners are in arrears due to losing their jobs as opposed to interest rates increasing?

who knows - but it will be increasing rapidly in the future.

Iago

dolphin city wrote: »

who knows - but it will be increasing rapidly in the future.

only if you consider the future to be say the next 2/3 years rather than the next 10/15 years

westendgirlie

Iago wrote: »

What percentage of home owners are in arrears due to losing their jobs as opposed to interest rates increasing?

I WAS in arrears due to losing my job. Thankfully, all paid back now. If I could afford payment protection I would buy it but the budget doesn't stretch right now.

BluePlanet

westendgirlie wrote: »

I WAS in arrears due to losing my job. Thankfully, all paid back now. If I could afford payment protection I would buy it but the budget doesn't stretch right now.

Just a moment ago you were:

I am 18 and have no qualifications other than leaving cert so probability is I will be on or near min wage for a very long time. How much is a house realistically gonna cost me? 20 or 30 yrs of wearing the same clothes as i'm saving????

But now you have a mortgage that was in arrears??

westendgirlie

BluePlanet wrote: »

Just a moment ago you were:
But now you have a mortgage that was in arrears??

If you bothered to read the minimum wage example you will see that i said " for this instance I am 18yrs old with no dependants"

It was for an example of an adult starting out and what they could achieve.

westendgirlie

Originally Posted by westendgirlie
I'll just class myself as an 18yr old with no dependants for this......


just incase i'm quoted as misquoting

Unrealistic

fliball123 wrote: »

We own the irish banks we have Irish regulations aswell first and formost and we have the power to force banks to offer people a fixed interest rate over the duration of the loan. Its done in other countries

That could be done for all new mortgages because it would give the banks a chance to sell 30 year bonds to back 30 year mortgages and have the market set the rate (and you can be very sure it wouldn't be 3%). But if you apply it to existing mortgages, mortgages that were taken out as variable rate mortgages because they were backed by variable rate funding, then the tax payer has to pick up the difference. Therefore it is a bailout.

fliball123 wrote: »

But the banks got the money from the ECB at an all time low rates...and as a previous poster pointed out a fixed rate works in germany and france why not here.....

The banks got money from the ECB short term to fund liquidity and it has already been used for that. If you want to implement fixed rates on existing mortgages you need new funding at a fixed rate over the lifetime of the mortgage.

Unrealistic

jpb1974 wrote: »

carm wrote: »

Again, I never stated there should be a bail out for homeowners. I am for lenders being more lenient on mortgage payments, which has sweet FA to do with you.

Unfortunately carm I've been trying to make this point myself since yesterday but the haters just can't seem to get past the concept of mortgage debt bailout.

Defining a bailout strictly as a debt write down of some sort and making a distinction between it and leniency is I think maybe where wires are getting crossed. The reality is that any sort of leniency has to be funded by the tax payer today. One Euro less in mortgage payments this year equals one Euro more in tax payer funding for the banks to keep them above water.

carm wrote: »

I am making a point -- if a person is forced out of their house, they will be taking your ever so hard earned money (or wherever it came from) by way of rent relief.

The point has already been made, by myself and others, that paying rent relief would probably work out a whole lot cheaper for the state than extending mortgage holidays indefinitely. Short term it might well work out to be more expensive to keep people in their homes through the repossession moratorium but sooner, rather than later, we would pass the point where it makes more sense to foreclose and pay the rent relief.

Unrealistic

fliball123 wrote: »

People stating this are complete a$$es IMO for every person/analyst/gov official who said the bubble was unsustainable you had one saying the opposite...Obviously with about 500k people in neg equity about 1/6th of the population (including kids) got caught...but you just keep saying I told you so as if its a solution

I believe the real figure is 250k to 300k mortgages are thought to be in negative equity. Considering buy to let and second home mortgages made up about 40% of mortgages during the peak bubble years, and that these types of mortgages are more likely to have been interest only for an initial period, it is likely that significantly less than 50% of negative equity mortgages are on peoples own homes. Taking it further, the people most likely to find themselves in negative equity situations are the amateur landlords who bought multiple properties on interest only loans so even if it is 300k mortgages that does not mean it is 300k individual mortgage holders. Then you need to consider how many of those in negative equity are currently behind on their mortgage payments. Many are still in the same jobs and, while it may be a kick in the balls to know that that the house they bought has lost value, they can still meet the payments.

So your assertion that 1/6th of the population somehow got fooled is way off the mark.

Me, I didn't claim to see the crash coming that came. I just did a simple calculation and decided I couldn't afford to buy property in Ireland during the Celtic Tiger years. So I spent those years living in a country where I could earn a decent living and afford to buy a home without overextending myself. I didn't sit in a remote village in Ireland and bitch about my 'entitlement' to a job on my doorstep that would pay enough to buy a house and a car.

dolphin city

Iago wrote: »

only if you consider the future to be say the next 2/3 years rather than the next 10/15 years

dream on - please dont tell me people are STILL believing the tripe. This is going to go on for a lot longer than the next couple of years.

Don't say you haven't been warned.

dan_d

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Nobody said it was a luxury to have a roof over your head. Stop making things up. It's childish.

I beg to differ.It's been said a number of times. Most recently, post number 304 by Ciaran C. And has been reiterated several times since then aswell.

I don't make things up.

This thread is descending into ridiculousness. Bottom line is that no two situations are the same, and as I said before, no matter how much it's preached about, it doesn't change the fact that mortgage defaults and NE are a huge problem for a percentage of our population, and some sort of solution is needed.

Duke Leonal Felmet

dan_d wrote: »

I beg to differ.It's been said a number of times. Most recently, post number 304 by Ciaran C. And has been reiterated several times since then aswell.

I don't make things up.

This thread is descending into ridiculousness. Bottom line is that no two situations are the same, and as I said before, no matter how much it's preached about, it doesn't change the fact that mortgage defaults and NE are a huge problem for a percentage of our population, and some sort of solution is needed.

They said that living in a house is a luxury? Could you quote them? Im on a phone.

BluePlanet

Post 304 says:

Why is this even in question? Of course it is a luxury to own a house. What else could it be?

my italics.

A bit of reading comprehension dan d ?

carm

dolphin city wrote: »

some people have been laughing at their stupidity for years, as well as laughing at the ones running in for 100 percent mortgages. payback's a bithc. literally.

Thankfully we never took out a 100% mortgage as we were already on the market pre-2000. How nice a person you sound though I must say. Let's hope karma doesn't exist.

dan_d wrote: »

There's no point trying to explain your situation here, people don't want to hear it.Apparently it's a luxury to have a roof over your head, especially if it's a roof that you buy and not rent. .

You're quite right Dan, there's no point trying to explain your situation here. There are quite a few people on boards.ie that have obviously been building up their frustrations over the years at the property market, all set up by Section 23 (thanks again FF), the greedy estate agents aka vultures, solicitors, etc, and the general Irish public was taken on a money-grabbing ride. Now they're here to take out their frustrations with an aim to attack anyone who went and bought a house for the sake of bringing up their families, as there's no one here who bought to make lots of cash here posting. Let's blame them because it had nothing to do with all those investors et al.

Here is where the likes of dolphin gets his/her rocks off rubbing people's noses in it behind a username.

jpb1974

Here is where the likes of dolphin gets his/her rocks off rubbing people's noses in it behind a username.

Here, here.

Too many posters on this forum just begging for a disagreement, a chance to be smug or a chance to be just plain rude.

Anything to take their mind off rubbing one off when they get home.

Bottled up anger and resentment spills over in a place where they can hide in the shadows of the internet.

A shower of communist begrudgers who can't bare to see people trying to get on in life.

dolphin city

don't get upset with other posters cause you made a bad decision. Deal with it. and please stop trying to blame others for your own mistakes. talk about a pampered society.

Duke Leonal Felmet

jpb1974 wrote: »

Here, here.

Too many posters on this forum just begging for a disagreement, a chance to be smug or a chance to be just plain rude.

Anything to take their mind off rubbing one off when they get home.

Bottled up anger and resentment spills over in a place where they can hide in the shadows of the internet.

Oh, the irony.

Monty Burnz

dan_d wrote: »

I beg to differ.It's been said a number of times. Most recently, post number 304 by Ciaran C. And has been reiterated several times since then aswell.

I don't make things up.

Um...you did make it up. This is what he said...

Why is this even in question? Of course it is a luxury to own a house. What else could it be?

He said to own it is a luxury. I have always had a roof over my head. I have never had the luxury of owning a property.

Monty Burnz

jpb1974 wrote: »

A shower of communist begrudgers who can't bare to see people trying to get on in life.

Um...I hope you are not referring to those of us who don't like the communist idea of allowing people to keep things they have not paid for?

Jaysoose

dolphin city wrote: »

don't get upset with other posters cause you made a bad decision. Deal with it. and please stop trying to blame others for your own mistakes. talk about a pampered society.

I think he is upset at your general arrogant and abrasive attitude, to be honest i cant blame him your coming off as a typical internet sh1thead saying things online that you wouldnt dream of in the real world.

Just my two cents.

CiaranC

carm wrote: »

Now they're here to take out their frustrations with an aim to attack anyone who went and bought a house for the sake of bringing up their families, as there's no one here who bought to make lots of cash here posting.

I for one have no issues with anyone who bought a house during the boom. Believe it or not nobody is perfect. I understand very well the pressures involved. There are countless tens of thousands of such people with their heads down, getting on with things. Its tough for them, but thats life, it doesnt always go the way you planned.

What I DO have issues with is this poor-mouth victim routine and the minority of people who wont accept responsibility for their actions, but instead expect someone else to pay for their mistakes.

I managed, through a combination of luck, circumstance and eventual financial prudence, to come out of the minefield that was the "Celtic Tiger" unscathed. Im now expected, as part of the community who did things the right way, to use my taxes to bail out the vermin in our publicly owned banks and there is nothing I can do about it, as all the major political parties seem to support this sickening course of action.

And now on top of that, the likes of the OP wants me to bail out the other side of the equation - the people who plunged headlong into the property bubble, who didnt bother to understand and STILL dont understand how basic economics work - AS WELL.

No thanks very much.

sarumite

westendgirlie wrote: »

I understand what you are saying Monty but it does nothing for the aspirations of our youth does it? Sadly this country will always be "the have's" and the ever increasing number "the have nots"

May I ask you and the others who are waiting for the right moment to buy for cash just one question......... Do you have any compassion for the people who you intend to buy off. Knowing you will be paying a lot less than what they will still owe?

I may hopefully buy in the next 2 years. Personally I will buy it at market value, whatever that is. I will probably have the same feeling about buying something at market value as anyone else has when buying something at market value.

sollar

Something will more than likely be done for the 04 to 08 strugglers. Once FG get in they will do what they think needs to be done and we won't have a say in it imo.

I would not like to see people just given debt forgiveness and be able to continue as is. I'd prefer to see a fair but tough way out for those in dire straits. They should lose everything they own but not have a €200,000 or €300,000 debt follow them around for the rest of their lives.

dolphin city

Jaysoose wrote: »

I think he is upset at your general arrogant and abrasive attitude, to be honest i cant blame him your coming off as a typical internet sh1thead saying things online that you wouldnt dream of in the real world.

Just my two cents.

they should have hired you before they bought their houses - you being psychic and all. :rolleyes:

dolphin city

in relation to the person who brought up communist begrudgers

you'de never see this happen in a communist country and here's a bit of a mind boggler for you

who said: capitalism sows the seeds of its own distruction.

Watch and learn.