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Religion and the Cork plane crash

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    #272
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    Mumbo Jumbo Sir!

    What a crock of sh1t!
    :D
    Hi eyescreamcone and welcome!
    Formalities out of the way - please endeavour to put more substance in your posts if you plan on hanging around.
    This is A&A, not AH.


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    #273
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Dades wrote: »
    Hi eyescreamcone and welcome!
    Formalities out of the way - please endeavour to put more substance in your posts if you plan on hanging around.
    This is A&A, not AH.
    Hey, I thought we didn't comment on the moderation policies of other forums here. ;)


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    #274
    sandmanporto
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sandmanporto


    these people have died and your using it to bash religion. Get a life! Some atheists seem very passionate, almost annoyingly, about bashing the church. An atheist shud keep their views to themselves as should religious fanatics. Anybody who bashes atheism or a religion just HAS A PROBLEM. Period


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    #275
    Duke Leonal Felmet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭Duke Leonal Felmet


    sandmanporto wrote: »
    these people have died and your using it to bash religion. Get a life! Some atheists seem very passionate, almost annoyingly, about bashing the church. An atheist shud keep their views to themselves as should religious fanatics. Anybody who bashes atheism or a religion just HAS A PROBLEM. Period

    Fine, it was a miracle then.


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    #276
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    sandmanporto wrote: »
    these people have died and your using it to bash religion. Get a life! Some atheists seem very passionate, almost annoyingly, about bashing the church. An atheist shud keep their views to themselves as should religious fanatics. Anybody who bashes atheism or a religion just HAS A PROBLEM. Period

    Pointing out that people who may not have wanted it were subjected to a religious ceremony without being asked is bashing religion?

    Wow.


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    #277
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    sandmanporto wrote: »
    these people have died and your using it to bash religion. Get a life! Some atheists seem very passionate, almost annoyingly, about bashing the church. An atheist shud keep their views to themselves as should religious fanatics. Anybody who bashes atheism or a religion just HAS A PROBLEM. Period

    Religious fanatics should keep their opinions to them selves as should atheists eh???
    The silence of one would lead to a considerable reduction in volume of the other. Can you work out which is which?


    BTW

    Having issues with a civilian with no actual authority entering the scene of a major acident to perform magic is not Church bashing.


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    #278
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    sandmanporto wrote: »
    An atheist shud keep their views to themselves [...] Anybody who bashes atheism [...] HAS A PROBLEM.
    Fail.


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    #279
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Pointing out that people who may not have wanted it were subjected to a religious ceremony without being asked is bashing religion?

    Wow.

    The point is none of us know for sure so we cannot assume they didn't want the Last Rites anymore than we can assume they did. You don't know anymore than I do that those poor people or their families didn't want the Priest there.

    No-ones saying anything about bashing religion. Some of us just the OP is something of an overreaction to what we see as a man simply trying his own way to help and give comfort.


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    #280
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    No-ones saying anything about bashing religion.
    I don't doubt that, were one inclined, one could find the better part of a dozen posts in this thread accusing us of exactly that. I'll settle for pointing out this one, five posts above yours:
    sandmanporto wrote: »
    these people have died and your using it to bash religion. Get a life! Some atheists seem very passionate, almost annoyingly, about bashing the church. An atheist shud keep their views to themselves as should religious fanatics. Anybody who bashes atheism or a religion just HAS A PROBLEM. Period


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    #281
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    The point is none of us know for sure so we cannot assume they didn't want the Last Rites anymore than we can assume they did. You don't know anymore than I do that those poor people or their families didn't want the Priest there.

    No-ones saying anything about bashing religion. Some of us just the OP is something of an overreaction to what we see as a man simply trying his own way to help and give comfort.

    No-one... apart from the poster I was sepcifically replying to, I guess?
    No, I don't assume either way. Which is why I think the decent thing to do would have been to first actually find out who would want those rites rather than barge in and administer them indiscriminately.
    And I'm not even going to go into what I think about administering religious rites without asking and then going on the telly about it.


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    #282
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    The point is none of us know for sure so we cannot assume they didn't want the Last Rites anymore than we can assume they did. You don't know anymore than I do that those poor people or their families didn't want the Priest there.

    That's a good point. We could draw very different conclusions from it.

    Personally I believe that truly believing and trusting in Christ is what saves. What is done posthumously is not done on the knowledge of the individual.

    I am inclined to agree with the others on this thread that the priest although well intentioned was presumptuous. One could say that this might be a reason to side with not doing it without the express permission of family members.


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    #283
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    Brenireland wrote: »
    It is important to know we will all die up until the day of judgement,when the dead will rise again & the glory of god will shine,The Day When Good defeats Bad,We know not when this day will occur but we must prepare,Jesus is our Shepherd,we are his sheep,Sheep will get lost,but god will always find them.

    This sort of thing is what amazes me with religion. If all this is true, then why do we need bother doing anything. I mean, do we really need jobs. Do we really need laws? hospitals etc. Basically, as long as we behave ourselves and say a prayer every now and then, nothing else matters. Why bother going to school or anything. If god wins the battle against 'bad' tomorrow afternoon, then everyone who's ever died and gone to heaven is gonna rise back out the ground or something.
    This kind of idea surely died out thousands of yrs ago, but it hasn't, still billions base their lives around these ideas. It amazes me. People want to believe this kind of thing as it makes grief far easier to deal with and takes away the fear of death.
    Its time the world woke up and smelt the roses. No one is gonna save us, there is no after life, there is no reason to any of this. Nothing happens for a reason. The sooner we all realize this, the sooner we can all start working together to solve some of the worlds problems. Sadly, this too is a dream which is thousands of yrs old. Instead billions will still carry on as they always have, 'don't worry, god will help us, no need to panick', 'keep your life jackets and car airbags, i'm off to paradise'.


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    #284
    beerbuddy
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭beerbuddy


    Another sad thread i cant believe that people actually believe in there heart what they have written.Why not go and protest at the funeral that the poor victims rights were violated. You would get some slapping.


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    #285
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    beerbuddy wrote: »
    Another sad thread i cant believe that people actually believe in there heart what they have written.Why not go and protest at the funeral that the poor victims rights were violated. You would get some slapping.

    The funeral would be decided by the family who know the deceased religious beliefs.....:o
    Slap yourself...


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    #286
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    beerbuddy wrote: »
    Why not go and protest at the funeral that the poor victims rights were violated.
    Yeah. Posting in a forum is the same as protesting at funerals.

    Good job!


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    #287
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Dades wrote: »
    Yeah. Posting in a forum is the same as protesting at funerals.

    Good job!
    Well in that case my evening has been a lot more productive than I thought


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    #288
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Well in that case my evening has been a lot more productive than I thought

    Mine too. Home brew for progress and productivity!:D


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    #289
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    If God saved the survivors...who killed those who died?
    The Devil fella maybe?

    Who brought the fog? God or Devil?

    Besides the laws of physics are there other forces at work here?
    Are they at work all the time???
    Or do they let most things go, and meet up for the odd sparring match every so often.

    Tsunami this morning. Act of God or the Devil?
    (maybe god is preventing tsunamis everyday but he was busy this week - Lent an all)



    In my opinion there are only laws of physics in play - nothing else.
    For those who think that there is more to this than meets the eye.
    Please show me as I genuinely would change my tune if shown evidence that I'm wrong.

    Evidence smevidence I'd say!!! :)


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    #290
    Wavey1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭Wavey1111


    Can I just say that I know someone who was on that plane. Dónal, who was the guy that was all over the news and returning from an IFES event in Belfast to work with Christian Unions in Munster.


    First of all to the OP this country is largely Catholic and so you have to take the Catholic-ness of Ireland with a pinch of salt.

    Secondly The "thank God" was actually a quote of what Dónal said when he got out of the plane ok (for himself obviously he is still devastated that he survived while six died).


    It makes me feel a little bit ill that people are picking apart the Christian side to this when SIX people died!!

    That day was unbelievably stressful and worrying for those who knew someone on the plane. We, Dónal's friends, were very fortunate (or blessed by God maybe?) that he got out with minor injuries from trying to break open the windows. Imagine if someone who lost a loved one that day read this. I don't think to them it mattered too much that a Catholic priest (though obviously I can't speak for them) administered last rights. The Church of Ireland bishop was around as well and some ministers of a couple of other Christian denominations. What it actually showed is that in a time of crisis the Church(es) show support to the people and that is a nice idea.

    Anyway, rant over,

    God Bless


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    #291
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Wavey1111 wrote: »
    Can I just say that I know someone who was on that plane. Dónal, who was the guy that was all over the news and returning from an IFES event in Belfast to work with Christian Unions in Munster.
    Does this make your opinion more important or something?
    First of all to the OP this country is largely Catholic and so you have to take the Catholic-ness of Ireland with a pinch of salt.
    What on earth does that mean?
    Secondly The "thank God" was actually a quote of what Dónal said when he got out of the plane ok (for himself obviously he is still devastated that he survived while six died).
    Where's that quote coming from? It's certainly not mentioned by the OP. You've dug up a 20 page thread which has been inactive for nearly half a year. If you want to make reference to something buried back there, quote it.
    It makes me feel a little bit ill that people are picking apart the Christian side to this when SIX people died!!
    It makes many of us feel a little bit ill that people defend the church after decades of systematic enablement of child molestation, but that doesn't mean people won't have opinions about things, or discuss them.
    That day was unbelievably stressful and worrying for those who knew someone on the plane.
    I'm sure we're all shocked to learn that.
    We, Dónal's friends, were very fortunate (or blessed by God maybe?) that he got out with minor injuries from trying to break open the windows.
    Amazing how God's favour looks awfully like Russian roulette here. Maybe the others on the plane were bad people, maybe? Did they not pray enough?
    Imagine if someone who lost a loved one that day read this.
    And you dug it up - you bastard.
    I don't think to them it mattered too much that a Catholic priest (though obviously I can't speak for them) administered last rights. The Church of Ireland bishop was around as well and some ministers of a couple of other Christian denominations. What it actually showed is that in a time of crisis the Church(es) show support to the people and that is a nice idea.
    You're welcome to your opinion. You're even welcome to express it here. You're not welcome to come here and patronise everyone who disagrees with you.
    Anyway, rant over,

    God Bless
    Given who that's directed at, do you not think you're just provoking people here? Six people are dead. Have you no shame?


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    #292
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Wavey1111 wrote: »
    God Bless
    Very indiscriminately, from what I can see.


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    #293
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Jesus surely is the son of God.
    He rose from the dead in just 3 days but it took this thread almost 6 months!


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    #294
    Xon
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Xon


    ha.. brightened up my day anyway.

    hmm... maybe god does work in mysterious ways afterall... :eek:


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    #295
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Wavey: I know Dónal and I think I know you. He's dealt with this surprisingly well and my utmost respect goes out to him he has a real conviction and drive for God. Don't expect a favourable response in the A&A den though :)


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    #296
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    philologos wrote: »
    Wavey: I know Dónal and I think I know you. He's dealt with this surprisingly well and my utmost respect goes out to him he has a real conviction and drive for God. Don't expect a favourable response in the A&A den though :)

    Yeah. Surviving a plane crash like that must be quite difficult. To have the fact that your belief in god is idiotic shoved in your face like that could be difficult to deal with.

    MrP


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    #297
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    Wavey1111 wrote: »
    We, Dónal's friends, were very fortunate (or blessed by God maybe?) that he got out with minor injuries from trying to break open the windows.

    ba7vl.jpg


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    #298
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    philologos wrote: »
    Don't expect a favourable response in the A&A den though :)
    I can't begin to understand how somebody can say "Thank god" when there were six people near him who -- if the christian story were true -- were either executed, or permitted to die, by the same god.

    Stockholm Syndrome with knobs on.


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    #299
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    good luck to the priests ,
    at least it takes their minds of the kids off a while


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    #300
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    DaDumTish wrote: »
    good luck to the priests ,
    at least it takes their minds of the kids off a while

    Rarely does a username appear so appropriate.


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    #301
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    i'm here all week , try the chicken ....:pac:


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