Religion and the Cork plane crash

fisgon

Two observations to make here about this..
(i) Last night on the RTE news they interviewed the bishop of Cork in the airport. He had been on his way to Knock and had diverted to come down immediately to the airport. I had two immediate reactions to this, firstly, did her really think his presence would in any way improve the situation? Did he see himself as somehow coming to someone's rescue? Is this what the situation was crying out for, a catholic bishop?
And then I wondered, why the fukc were RTE interviewing this guy? He had no special knowledge, nothing to add besides the usual platitudes. He seemed to be interviewed in the same way that the local parish priest is wheeled out at the scene of a road accident, as a reflex, lazy journalism, a decades long assmuption that a cleric's perspective is what we need.

(ii) Again on RTE, this time on radio, the PP who gave the six victims of the crash the last rights was interviewed. My first thought here was, how presumptious can you get? Weren't some of the dead from England, the North? Surely not Catholics, all of them. Yet Father whatever swans in there and annoints them all. Eamon Gilmore called him a 'hero' in his interview after, but I couldn't help thinking that he was intruding on the most difficult and intimate and personal of situations, and making their deaths into a Catholic ritual, into yet another opportunity to glorify his church. What right has he to go in there and give the last rights to people who may have been unbelievers, protestants, Buddhists. (he also mentioned later on that he had performed masses and prayers in the airport so that there would be no crashes. He admitted this, with no sense of irony, I almost laughed)

Wow, didn't intend to write so much. Apologies. Not sure if the same thoughts occured to anyone else.

Wolfe Tone

FFS, all those people just died and you have managed to turn it into something to use to bash the church with?

NoQuarter

Two good points there. Just grit your teeth and bare it out, times are slowly changing.

threeleggedhors

I hear ya. Sympathies to the families but yeah very presumptuous of him to be swanning in giving last rites. It is however Catholic church .inc , good opportunity for PR can't be missed. I'm so sick of religion and seeing it promoted by RTE but maybe I'm being harsh, I suppose we're still a religious country, or are we ???

dvpower

fisgon wrote: »

(ii) Again on RTE, this time on radio, the PP who gave the six victims of the crash the last rights was interviewed. My first thought here was, how presumptious can you get? Weren't some of the dead from England, the North? Surely not Catholics, all of them. Yet Father whatever swans in there and annoints them all. Eamon Gilmore called him a 'hero' in his interview after, but I couldn't help thinking that he was intruding on the most difficult and intimate and personal of situations, and making their deaths into a Catholic ritual, into yet another opportunity to glorify his church. What right has he to go in there and give the last rights to people who may have been unbelievers, protestants, Buddhists. (he also mentioned later on that he had performed masses and prayers in the airport so that there would be no crashes. He admitted this, with no sense of irony, I almost laughed)

I caught that interview half way through. He was on about how some of them might not have been catholics but he thought they might be saved in any case. He was on about it being a very sad day for the rest of us but it was a great day for them, being that they might all be in heaven now.
Hearing that it was he who adminisered last rights brings a (small) bit of sense to it.

Dades

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

FFS, all those people just died and you have managed to turn it into something to use to bash the church with?

Unfortunately when people die the clergy seem to come crawling out of the woodwork.

It's difficult not to comment on some of their farcical reactions.

tim_holsters

The OP is dead on the money.

Wolfe Tone

Dades wrote: »

Unfortunately when people die the clergy seem to come crawling out of the woodwork.

It's difficult not to comment on some of their farcical reactions.

I think it disingenuous to say "crawling out of the woodwork" that suggests they are doing it simply for themselves, or with selfish motives, or seek in some way to capitalize or profit on death.

Rhys Essien

Agree with OP.It was a bit annoying.To hazard a guess IMO i would say of the 6 who died,3 were catholic and 3 were protestant.(going by where they were from and names)

wordcount

fisgon wrote: »

Two observations to make here about this..
(i) Last night on the RTE news they interviewed the bishop of Cork in the airport. He had been on his way to Knock and had diverted to come down immediately to the airport. I had two immediate reactions to this, firstly, did her really think his presence would in any way improve the situation? Did he see himself as somehow coming to someone's rescue? Is this what the situation was crying out for, a catholic bishop?
And then I wondered, why the fukc were RTE interviewing this guy? He had no special knowledge, nothing to add besides the usual platitudes. He seemed to be interviewed in the same way that the local parish priest is wheeled out at the scene of a road accident, as a reflex, lazy journalism, a decades long assmuption that a cleric's perspective is what we need.

(ii) Again on RTE, this time on radio, the PP who gave the six victims of the crash the last rights was interviewed. My first thought here was, how presumptious can you get? Weren't some of the dead from England, the North? Surely not Catholics, all of them. Yet Father whatever swans in there and annoints them all. Eamon Gilmore called him a 'hero' in his interview after, but I couldn't help thinking that he was intruding on the most difficult and intimate and personal of situations, and making their deaths into a Catholic ritual, into yet another opportunity to glorify his church. What right has he to go in there and give the last rights to people who may have been unbelievers, protestants, Buddhists. (he also mentioned later on that he had performed masses and prayers in the airport so that there would be no crashes. He admitted this, with no sense of irony, I almost laughed)

Wow, didn't intend to write so much. Apologies. Not sure if the same thoughts occured to anyone else.

My father died slowly of a terminal disease. He was not a very religious man. A priest from the parish came to visit him some times 3 or 4 times a week. he did not need to. My father enjoyed the visits and it did comfort my mother too.

Why do you have to reduce everything down to some religious argument or bashing.

Chill out give the man a break.

tim_holsters

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think it disingenuous to say "crawling out of the woodwork" that suggests they are doing it simply for themselves, or with selfish motives, or seek in some way to capitalize or profit on death.

Who else are they doing it for?

Wolfe Tone

tim_holsters wrote: »

Who else are they doing it for?

The people who are dying, if you are suggesting the priest went in there to those dead bodies for his own benefit you are wholly mistaken, I doubt he had a good time.

CiaranMT

In fairness, from what I've read of the story, the plane was bringing people from a religious gathering of some sort in Belfast. It's to be expected that religion would be to the forefront in this.

Not that it doesn't irk me to see 'Thank God' or somesuch splashed across the front of The Sun.

wordcount

tim_holsters wrote: »

Who else are they doing it for?

Maybe jsut maybe they feel they have a calling from God to be of assistance to people in thier hour of need. You may ot need that. You may even think its stupid. But its a comfort for people. It helps them.

tim_holsters

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The people who are dying, if you are suggesting the priest went in there to those dead bodies for his own benefit you are wholly mistaken, I doubt he had a good time.

Fair enough if that's what you think.

The priest does not know these people or their beliefs.

The reason he's "administering" to these folks is wholly to do with himself and what he may or may not feel is the right thing to do in a certain situation according to whatever particular doctrine he's following.

Personally I find the intrusion offensive.

wordcount

tim_holsters wrote: »

Fair enough if that's what you think.

The priest does not know these people or their beliefs.

Where as you do.

Pushtrak

wordcount wrote: »

Where as you do.

No better or worse than you, and you are here.

magicbastarder

wordcount wrote: »

Chill out give the man a break.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/hmmm/
so he's meant to be comforting with those words?

Wolfe Tone

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/hmmm/
so he's meant to be comforting with those words?

He is saying that hopefully they are in a better place.... I dont get your point

Pushtrak

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He is saying that hopefully they are in a better place.... I dont get your point

It is not a wonderful day for those left behind, and hollow words like that are, to me, the mark of a despicable man.

Family/friends of the victims, to clarify.

tim_holsters

wordcount wrote: »

Where as you do.

You just don't get it do you.

Thou Shall Not Impose :rolleyes:

Dearie me, slightly biblical there

magicbastarder

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He is saying that hopefully they are in a better place.... I dont get your point

he's saying that it's a great day for them because they died.
i wonder if the priest goes around thinking 'that postman is a really nice guy, i hope he dies soon. it'd be great for him.'

Wolfe Tone

magicbastarder wrote: »

he's saying that it's a great day for them because they died.
i wonder if the priest goes around thinking 'that postman is a really nice guy, i hope he dies soon. it'd be great for him.'

I interpreted it as "they have gone to a better place, in paradise yada yada" that has been a comfort to relatives for thousands of years

magicbastarder

why didn't he say it like that so? calling the day of someone's death 'a wonderful day for them' is bizarre in the extreme.
the day i die in a plane crash is most likely going to be the worst day of my life, not a wonderful day.

sherdydan

So OP, would you be offended if someone of some faith or another said a prayer or such for you?

This priest came in to give what he believes is the right thing to be doing, it doesnt hurt these people in anyway, infact i imagine if any of them were concious at the time, it would have been quite comforting, regardless of there faith etc.

This wasnt a priest forcing beliefs on people or some such, this was a priest who believes what he was doing was right and going to help these people. Nobody was hurt by it.

So please get off your politically correct high horse and out of your f**k the church mood, most of the time I would be a strong opponent of the RCC, but in this case your just being over the top.

Wolfe Tone

magicbastarder wrote: »

why didn't he say it like that so? calling the day of someone's death 'a wonderful day for them' is bizarre in the extreme.
the day i die in a plane crash is most likely going to be the worst day of my life, not a wonderful day.

Well if you end up in paradise etc it would be wonderful would it not? Hypothetically speaking of course.

Il bash the church and priests over many things, but the conduct of priests around death and dying is exemplary, certainly in my experience.

wordcount

tim_holsters wrote: »

You just don't get it do you.

Thou Shall Not Impose :rolleyes:

Dearie me, slightly biblical there

You are the one imposing. Imposing the opinion that he did not have a right to comfort these people. Some of them were religious. He felt it was his duty as a christian.

You just dont get it do you?

Pushtrak

wordcount wrote: »

You are the one imposing. Imposing the opinion that he did not have a right to comfort these people. Some of them were religious. He felt it was his duty as a christian.

You just dont get it do you?

Imposing an opinion VS imposing an action. How would that balance out?

tim_holsters

wordcount wrote: »

You are the one imposing. Imposing the opinion that he did not have a right to comfort these people. Some of them were religious. He felt it was his duty as a christian.

You just dont get it do you?

Yep that's whose important here isn't it?

Topper Harley01

I was going to write a long reply to this, but I then realised the OP is a troll.

Who else are they doing it for?

You think there is a personal gain from scenes like this?





I have found the majority of ordinary priests to be decent, well meaning, kind hearted people.

wordcount

Pushtrak wrote: »

Imposing an opinion VS imposing an action. How would that balance out?

Im mot sure there is a big difference as one usually leads to another.