Peugeot 5008 or C4 Grand Picasso or Toyota Verso

johnnyreb

Which would you go for?
5008 SX vs citroen c4 grand picasso vtr+ vs toyota verso Luna
2 kids but carry extra sometimes for school runs etc.
thinking of going with the verso as its not so much of a bus as the others but worried about the smaller boot capacity.
also people say toyota are very reliable and french not so?
have a 2004 scenic and had lots of trouble with it so has put me off renault.
getting it on scrappage against a 98 car i have.
the toyota is the most expensive of the three but swaying towards it right now.
thanks all.

CompleteCarGuy

Peugeot 5008 all day long

Zubeneschamali

johnnyreb wrote: »

Which would you go for?

The S-Max.

Lex Luthor

Probably would also go for S-Max...

Wife has a 05 Verso..been running it for 4yrs now. 2litre diesel Sol. Cant fault it whatsoever. Boot is big when in 5 seat mode, but tiny when all 7 are up but that rarely happens

tfitzgerald

CompleteCarGuy wrote: »

Peugeot 5008 all day long

+1 . If buying from new I would look at the grand c max

CompleteCarGuy

The lads are right - if I really needed 7 seats and the budget was restricted then 5008. If the 7-seats are an occassional requirement then Grand C-Max and if budget is flexible then S-Max.

Paddy

Zubeneschamali

CompleteCarGuy wrote: »

If the 7-seats are an occassional requirement then Grand C-Max.

The C-Max is really a 4 seater with 3 occasional seats.

johnnyreb

Thanks guys,
the s-max is way more expensive (at least 8k more) and i only need the extra 2 seats occasionally. i have test driven the grand c-max and found it to be quite small inside. What i like about the verso is that it's not as boxy looking as the other mpvs, it's more like a regular car. the 5008 has a lot bigger boot though. Also, toyota are very reliable, i know their have been recalls but so have other brands.

crosstownk

I'd go for the C4 Picasso. Plenty of room, 3 individual seats in the middle row (will take 3 child seats, all ISOFIX) and the rear row has two independent flat folding seats. The 2011 model has a few creature comforts like Bluetooth, rear parking sensors and an iPod/USB connection.

1.6 HDi is a reliable engine and is the very same engine as the 5008.

I wouldn't pay too much attention the anti-French car sentiment that surfaces regularly.

sweetie

crosstownk wrote: »

I'd go for the C4 Picasso. Plenty of room, 3 individual seats in the middle row (will take 3 child seats, all ISOFIX) and the rear row has two independent flat folding seats. The 2011 model has a few creature comforts like Bluetooth, rear parking sensors and an iPod/USB connection.

1.6 HDi is a reliable engine and is the very same engine as the 5008.

I wouldn't pay too much attention the anti-French car sentiment that surfaces regularly.

poor residuals though?

ashleey

If they put the 2.0 diesel in the 5008 like in the UK, that's the one. The 1.6 is too slow. The grand c max is faster and has a great interior design regarding stowing the middle second row seat and sliding doors. The plastic around the car was appalling though. Test drove the 1.6 and you end up hesitating to pull out of a junction in case you don't make it in time. The s max, galaxy and new sharan are mental prices now though. They are getting close to suv prices. To be fair the sharan is a quality product. I can't help feeling that ford are economising. Our 2007 galaxy is better inside but not like a vw either, it pains me to say

Bodhan

5008 is a superb car. It's quiet and comfy, really smart boot too, the others are good but the Pug has the edge on quality and styling.

ashleey

Agree with that. They look great inside too. Particularly the White leather. If I got that then the kids wouldn't be allowed in though! And to be fair the 1.6 diesel is rated well enough by the car mags. Access to third row is quite good too as the second row fold forward in two parts.

Leonard Hofstadter

The 5008 is meant to be the sharpest of the lot to drive, so that would get my vote immediately.

I also think it has the best quality interior as well.

The Verso has nothing going for it really - it's just a boring box on wheels, like all Toyotas are - the kind of car for anyone who views cars as necessary evils and merely devices for moving people from a to b.

Is it possible to order the Pug with a 2.0 diesel? The 1.6 HDi seems dangerously underpowered to me. 112 bhp will struggle in a seven seater car, diesel torque or no diesel torque. I know that in the UK at least, it is possible to order a 2.0 diesel with 163 bhp - that is a lot more like it,

ashleey

I'm also hoping for the 2.0. Unfortunately I've got used to a 3.0 diesel in my q7 and can't get a reasonable trade in. The third row isn't great for my growing kids. Looks like they'll have to live with it.

Zubeneschamali

ashleey wrote: »

can't get a reasonable trade in.

Sell the Q7 privately, and go back and ask for a cash price on the 5008, if you can order a 2.0

Scottie99

crosstownk wrote: »

I'd go for the C4 Picasso. Plenty of room, 3 individual seats in the middle row (will take 3 child seats, all ISOFIX) and the rear row has two independent flat folding seats. The 2011 model has a few creature comforts like Bluetooth, rear parking sensors and an iPod/USB connection.

1.6 HDi is a reliable engine and is the very same engine as the 5008.

I wouldn't pay too much attention the anti-French car sentiment that surfaces regularly.

Have to agree, my wife has had hers for two years now and is very hapy. Low tax, good fuel economy and reliable. We choose the VRT+, we find the paddle shifting alot quicker than the actually automatic mode.

sweetie

I'm strongly considering a 5008 ahead of the picasso as I think it will have better residuals. What would be the bext discount one should hope for as a cash buyer? One dealer offered 3000 off without much prompting as he was giving us the brochure. Would another two grand be an unrealistic expectation?

ashleey

You are right about trying a private sale but if the cost to change is more than 2/3 years difference in running costs I'm better off staying as I am. The private Market for expensive complicated motors is fairly limited and to be fair to the dealers they can't risk leaving one on their forecourt for ages either. If you could afford a new sharan with top spec I would consider that if your family is large. You would be surprised how much room even school bags take up.

route66

I've owned one since new in 2004 and can recommend it without hesitation.

Yes, it is a domestic appliance but surely if you are thinking of buying an MPV to carry the family in safety and comfort, then this is more important than cornering ability?

In terms of looks I would rank it behind the C4 but way above the Ford - however this is all subjective; it's not ugly.

The negative comments about French cars you see here are generally well deserved - refer to your own experiences and read various customer reliability indices for more. Toyotas are boring, but I happen to think driver's enjoyment is secondary to other criteria in a car like this:


Here is some of the boring practical stuff:

• Verso has 3 proper seats in the middle row
• It's reliable
• It's easy to drive
• It has a load cover that can be hidden away when not needed
• It has a space saver tyre and not the useless can of foam that some come with
• You can seat 7 adults in it for short journeys
• The boot is non-existant with 7 seats in use but big with 5 seats in use.
• When folded, all seats form a completely flat flatform
• The mechanism for folding seats is reliable and the process of folding them is simple
• Easy gearchange
• Easy resale
• Lots of dealers

So, buy the Verso and don't be disappointed. Then with that box ticked, go buy some impractical 2-seater for fun!

route66

and I'd still go for the Verso.

Don't read beyond this comment if you are easily bored:

• The new one has a tiny bit of extra space in the boot when in seven seater mode. It's still tiny, but it is enough for - say - a folded McLaren buggy. The older Verso was too small even for this!
• Also, I had a quick look at the specs on the Toyota web site. Click here for specs for the 1.6 Petrol (select another engine-type at the top if required) and you will notice some confusion over the spare wheel (so, unsure if above comment is correct for new model :eek:) & roof rail options for the Luna model; if you are buying, get some clarity before you sign the dotted line.

largepants

My better half drives a C4 Picasso 1.6hdi manual and she loves it. I'd driven it a few times and while its not a Bentley, I don't have an issue with it at all. I really can't understand all this anti-french cars stuff. Any French car Ive driven, I've only had minor problems with them - no more than any other make Ive driven.The 5008 looks like a fine car and is similar in ways to the C4. It is supposed to be a classier looking car on the inside. However I don't think it would be possible at this early stage (as its rather new) to know what the residuals would be like. Never had a problem with the C4 so far so I'd not be ruling that out. Very practical and in my mind the 1.6 is plenty big.

Lex Luthor

route66 wrote: »

I've owned one since new in 2004 and can recommend it without hesitation.

Yes, it is a domestic appliance but surely if you are thinking of buying an MPV to carry the family in safety and comfort, then this is more important than cornering ability

Have to agree here
My gueess the op will get the verso

crosstownk

sweetie wrote: »

poor residuals though?

Yes, a lot of French cars suffer from poor residuals but in the last couple of years the residuals of most makes/models has come back quite a bit.

Also, the Citroën C4 Grand Picasso is quite a saleable motor - probably the strongest residual in the Citroën range.

johnnyreb

Ok guys, i have decided against the peugeot and the citroen. Nissan Qashqai+2 has now entered the equation. I test drove a 2010 model yesterday and it was very nice. So its between it and the verso now. The Qashqai+2 is 2k cheaper. I think i prefer it but there are two things that are on my mind. It has a 1.5dci engine (the verso has a 2.0 litre)and some reviewers say its underpowered. The other thing is that the 2 fold up seats in the rear have very little space for feet. My 7 year old sat into it and her knees were up quite high. As i said, we only need the 2 extra seats for school runs and occasional use so maybe that doesn't matter. Any thoughts on the Qashqai+2?

pburns

Do you really need a sprog-wagon with two kids even with occasional friends? I mean we all know families of 6-7 growing upwho fitted into a Cortina or similar...

I'm thinking Peugeot 508 SW for similar money...surely big enough for a family that size?

johnnyreb

thanks pburns, You are perfectly correct in saying that but back in the day there were no options for 7 seats. Also you didn't have to have car seats for the kids. It's handy to have the seats so we can share school runs with our kids parents. We only have to do the run on alternate days then, instead of every day. Makes life a bit easier. I am trying to get away from the sprog wagon look though, thats what has me looking at the verso and the qashqai+2.

coolbeans

route66 wrote: »

I've owned one since new in 2004 and can recommend it without hesitation.

Yes, it is a domestic appliance but surely if you are thinking of buying an MPV to carry the family in safety and comfort, then this is more important than cornering ability?

In terms of looks I would rank it behind the C4 but way above the Ford - however this is all subjective; it's not ugly.

The negative comments about French cars you see here are generally well deserved - refer to your own experiences and read various customer reliability indices for more. Toyotas are boring, but I happen to think driver's enjoyment is secondary to other criteria in a car like this:


Here is some of the boring practical stuff:

• Verso has 3 proper seats in the middle row
• It's reliable
• It's easy to drive
• It has a load cover that can be hidden away when not needed
• It has a space saver tyre and not the useless can of foam that some come with
• You can seat 7 adults in it for short journeys
• The boot is non-existant with 7 seats in use but big with 5 seats in use.
• When folded, all seats form a completely flat flatform
• The mechanism for folding seats is reliable and the process of folding them is simple
• Easy gearchange
• Easy resale
• Lots of dealers

So, buy the Verso and don't be disappointed. Then with that box ticked, go buy some impractical 2-seater for fun!

Your comments re the French cars and reliability is subjective pub prattling rubbish. Back it up. They both run what is probably the the most dependable mass produced diesel engine out there right now considering how many are produced.
It also amazes me how you separate cornering ability from safety. Cornering and decent handling make for a very safe car. It helps to have airbags and all the rest but if the car is set up so well that you can steer your way out of trouble then that, in my book anyway, makes the best handling car the safest.

route66

coolbeans wrote: »

Your comments re the French cars and reliability is subjective pub prattling rubbish. Back it up. They both run what is probably the the most dependable mass produced diesel engine out there right now considering how many are produced.
It also amazes me how you separate cornering ability from safety. Cornering and decent handling make for a very safe car. It helps to have airbags and all the rest but if the car is set up so well that you can steer your way out of trouble then that, in my book anyway, makes the best handling car the safest.

If you take a look here (JD Power survey 2010 - manufacturers) you will see that that there are no French makes on the left hand side (the good side).

To be fair though, if you click here (JD Power survey 2010 - cars) you will see that the C4 Grand Picasso does pretty well. Better than the Verso:eek: You might also see that the 2 flavours of C4 are the only French cars on the left hand side.

In the real world, if you attempt to check out the limits of roadholding in the family MPV, you tend to get lots of buggies, books, biros, bags, assorted crap, etc, crashing around in the boot; not something the "Autocar lads" tend to have to worry about too much, which is why they love the feedback of the independently sprung S-Max. That's not to say the Corolla (with it's cheap and robust torsion bar rear end) doesn't handle well or has poor roadholding. It just safe - push too hard and it understeers, lift off and it stops understeering.

For me, family car = boring = good. Get your jollies elsewhere

R.O.R

johnnyreb wrote: »

Any thoughts on the Qashqai+2?

If you don't mind the high road tax, and the pre-facelift model, there are some stock 2.0Dci's around with considerable discount available.

Got one for a customer a few weeks ago, in the colour he wanted (Fired Iron), with a good bit over 15% discount off list.

Ask your local dealer if there is legacy stock available at a special price.

route66

johnnyreb wrote: »

The Qashqai+2 is 2k cheaper. I think i prefer it but there are two things that are on my mind. It has a 1.5dci engine (the verso has a 2.0 litre)and some reviewers say its underpowered.

First off, I haven't driven either the 1.5 in the Qashqai or the 2.0 in the Toyota so my comments are more general in nature. Small capacity diesels are not underpowered per-say, but they can be very inflexible. This isn't the same inflexibility you get in a "screamer" petrol engine, but more turbo-lag related. Driving in urban conditions with lots of roundabouts can be very frustrating - this is my experience: Approach a roundabout in 2nd gear, slow to 10 mph to blend in with a slot in an approaching gap, put foot down: nothing. The power might very well come some seconds later but it will be too late. There may be a way to anticipate this when you get used to the car - i.e. put the power down before you need it - but that isn't hardly safe or comfortable.

Larger diesel engines generate more power than smaller ones without the help of the turbo, so they suffer less from lag.

I drove a Megane Estate with this engine a few years ago and, off-motorway, it was terrible. Having said that, on the motorway -30 minute journey - the trip computer was displaying an average fuel consumption of 60+.

useless

pburns wrote: »

Do you really need a sprog-wagon with two kids even with occasional friends? I mean we all know families of 6-7 growing upwho fitted into a Cortina or similar...

I'm thinking Peugeot 508 SW for similar money...surely big enough for a family that size?

Yep. Before we had laws about seatbelts for everyone and saw the crash test videos of what happens to unrestrained passengers etc. I can remember travelling in the rear parcel shelf of a Fiat 131 at one point though

Problem with the 508 and most cars like it is that you just can't fit 3 people in the rear seat if they need to use carseats or booster seats, which kids need to have til they're tall enough to use the seatbelt only. Add in the requirement to carry grannies and kids' friends and it adds to the headache.

sweetie

R.O.R wrote: »

If you don't mind the high road tax, and the pre-facelift model, there are some stock 2.0Dci's around with considerable discount available.

Got one for a customer a few weeks ago, in the colour he wanted (Fired Iron), with a good bit over 15% discount off list.

Ask your local dealer if there is legacy stock available at a special price.

is 15% discount the minimum one should expect off a new car?

Op, What swayed you away from the Peugot, if you don't mind saying?
(My wife and i tested it today and much prefer it to the c4 grand picasso)

johnnyreb

I liked the 5008 better than the picasso but was swayed towards the japanese cars for reliability. Really interested in the Qashqai+2 now. 2010 model are great value. Nice high driving position, panoramic roof and the chunky stylings are starting to win me over. maybe i am deluded?

Zubeneschamali

johnnyreb wrote: »

I liked the 5008 better than the picasso but was swayed towards the japanese cars for reliability. Really interested in the Qashqai+2 now.

If you're allergic to French cars, you should know that there is a lot of Renault in modern Nissans, like the diesel engines, and it's made in England.

Leonard Hofstadter

johnnyreb wrote: »

I liked the 5008 better than the picasso but was swayed towards the japanese cars for reliability. Really interested in the Qashqai+2 now. 2010 model are great value. Nice high driving position, panoramic roof and the chunky stylings are starting to win me over. maybe i am deluded?

The Qashqai is mostly Renault.

Which is French. The diesels are straight out of Renaults.

Anyway, I don't buy the line that just because something is Japanese it is automatically more reliable - it is well known that Peugeot/Citroen's 1.6 HDi is a very dependable engine for the most part.

joecreed

I've just traded in my '05 Pug 407 2.0HDi for a 08 Citroen C4 Grand Pic ('cos we got 3 kids, 2 car-seats & 407 has NO space for friends!!). I personally drive a 206 to work and back but the C4 is brilliant. The 1.6HDi engine is as fast to take off as the 407 ever was. I bought the C4 from a pug main dealer where I got my 407 and he was sure the C4 and the 5008 are the same cars. Space-wise, the C4 is brilliant. I love the driving position and the seats are COMFORTABLE!! I have lumbar issues and these seats are second to none in comfort (I have a cushion in my 206 for support!!). Very impressed with the car, the gadgets, the styling, but above all, the space!! As Pug & Citroen are the same crowd, this is currently my 9th Pug/"French car" and I've had little or no problems with any of them. I would have liked to stick with Peugeot but as budgets are constrained, I had the option of the C4 instead. Suits me though, long may it drive.:D