Are you afraid of saturated fat?

whiteonion

People like me born in the from 1975-1985 have been brought up to believe that saturated fat is dangerous and willl cause heart disease. This belief comes from a study by Ancel Keys, the seven countries study.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys#Seven_Countries_Study

This study was very flawed and he cherry picked data to come to the conclusion that saturated fat is dangerous.

Even though it's getting more and more obvious that saturated fat is good for you people still fear it. Are you afraid of saturated fat? Do you avoid it?

rocky

I'm not afraid and I eat it whenever I get the chance. Coconut oil, eggs... fried eggs in coconut oil! yum! or butter, mascarpone cheese in home made tiramisu...

whiteonion

rocky wrote: »

I'm not afraid and I eat it whenever I get the chance. Coconut oil, eggs... fried eggs in coconut oil! yum! or butter, mascarpone cheese in home made tiramisu...

When I was growing up girls used to cut away the fatty pieces of a pork chop. I always loved the fatty pieces of the pork chop.

jam_mac_jam

Yes I am, I still think that red meat is bad for me and I should be eating chicken etc. I am starting to come round to the idea that its not but I am kind of low fat brain washed.

Amtmann

Until quite recently I also believed that saturated fat was bad. Having read this forum however, I now reject that notion. That said, I still have a preference for lean meat, purely from a taste and aesthetic point of view.

Bottle_of_Smoke

whiteonion wrote: »

When I was growing up girls used to cut away the fatty pieces of a pork chop. I always loved the fatty pieces of the pork chop.

Hehe that might be a taste thing. I have no issues with sat fat I just hate the feeling and texture of fatty pieces

jam_mac_jam

whiteonion wrote: »

When I was growing up girls used to cut away the fatty pieces of a pork chop. I always loved the fatty pieces of the pork chop.

I still do that, I dont like the taste of it, now the crispy bits of a rasher are a different thing altogether.

teacosy

whiteonion wrote: »

People like me born in the from 1975-1985 have been brought up to believe that saturated fat is dangerous and willl cause heart disease. This belief comes from a study by Ancel Keys, the seven countries study.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys#Seven_Countries_Study

This study was very flawed and he cherry picked data to come to the conclusion that saturated fat is dangerous.

Even though it's getting more and more obvious that saturated fat is good for you people still fear it. Are you afraid of saturated fat? Do you avoid it?

How is it becoming more and more obvious?

El_Dangeroso

I have to remind myself when cooking for others that other people don't like as much fat as me. My mashed potatoes are one part butter to one part potato. You have to be really fat adapted to eat that much, I've made people pretty queasy-feeling when I don't take that into account!

Lean meat just tastes like nothing to me, I just find gnawing on protein and nothing else tedious. Can't eat chicken breasts anymore unless coated in sauce of some kind.

Re: Ancel Keyes, I used to think was a fraud, but I realise now that scientists get carried away with pet theories and start to see the world only in ways that reaffirm that theory. We are all the same, I've seen people at conferences make sweeping statements they can't totally justify from the evidence, but because it sounds like it 'makes sense' no one will question it.

Things are changing, I reckon we're gonna start hearing more of 'Well, remember we said all fats are bad, and now there's 'good' fat (poly, mono) and 'bad' fat (sat, trans)? Well now there's 'good' sat fat.' They'll most definitely start with coconut - the benefits are too obvious, they *might* get around to embracing butter - a girl can dream . Then there's also 'bad' poly fat (seed oils high in linoleic acid - they'll still recommend canola/rapeseed for a while at least). That's my prediction for the next few years, you read it here first!

whiteonion

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I have to remind myself when cooking for others that other people don't like as much fat as me. My mashed potatoes are one part butter to one part potato. You have to be really fat adapted to eat that much, I've made people pretty queasy-feeling when I don't take that into account!

Lean meat just tastes like nothing to me, I just find gnawing on protein and nothing else tedious. Can't eat chicken breasts anymore unless coated in sauce of some kind.

Re: Ancel Keyes, I used to think was a fraud, but I realise now that scientists get carried away with pet theories and start to see the world only in ways that reaffirm that theory. We are all the same, I've seen people at conferences make sweeping statements they can't totally justify from the evidence, but because it sounds like it 'makes sense' no one will question it.

Things are changing, I reckon we're gonna start hearing more of 'Well, remember we said all fats are bad, and now there's 'good' fat (poly, mono) and 'bad' fat (sat, trans)? Well now there's 'good' sat fat.' They'll most definitely start with coconut - the benefits are too obvious, they *might* get around to embracing butter - a girl can dream . Then there's also 'bad' poly fat (seed oils high in linoleic acid - they'll still recommend canola/rapeseed for a while at least). That's my prediction for the next few years, you read it here first!

Ancel Keys was guilty of fraud. He cherry picked data that would suit his conclusions. He excluded data that went against his theories. That is bad science and that is fraud.

El_Dangeroso

whiteonion wrote: »

Ancel Keys was guilty of fraud. He cherry picked data that would suit his conclusions. He excluded data that went against his theories. That is bad science and that is fraud.

Yeah, but there's intentional fraud and then there's just having a theory that you really really believe to be true. This will colour your judgement into doing things that might not be the most ethical, but never underestimate the human ability to rationalise behaviour.

We have examples of populations that smoke like troopers and don't seem to get the diseases we traditionally associate with smoking. We 'ignore' them too!

Keyes actually wrote a few good papers on weight loss, like the Minnesota starvation experiments. Nutrition science is full of theories based on ego and hubris more than evidence, I've reduced Keyes from 'fraud' to 'misguided' in my head anyway!

columok

Keyes actually wrote a few good papers on weight loss, like the Minnesota starvation experiments. Nutrition science is full of theories based on ego and hubris more than evidence, I've reduced Keyes from 'fraud' to 'misguided' in my head anyway!

Misguided as he was it could be argued that Keyes had a huge part of play in swathes of sick, dying and dead people. His (somewhat puritanical) crusade has blighted the health of billions.

teacosy

columok wrote: »

Misguided as he was it could be argued that Keyes had a huge part of play in swathes of sick, dying and dead people. His (somewhat puritanical) crusade has blighted the health of billions.

In what way?

El_Dangeroso

columok wrote: »

Misguided as he was it could be argued that Keyes had a huge part of play in swathes of sick, dying and dead people. His (somewhat puritanical) crusade has blighted the health of billions.

He didn't do it alone though, thousands of other scientists formed a consensus with him (and still do!). It's easy to look back now and think different with the benefit of hindsight. It probably made a lot of sense at the time. After all heart plaque is made of cholesterol and eating fat temporarily increases blood cholesterol. It's not a massive leap in imagination to assume one causes the other. It's just now we know the nuances of cholesterol etc. But there's still a lot we don't know, we actually still don't know exactly how heart disease occurs believe it or not. Theories abound but it's far from settled.

metamorphosis

This morning i fried and omlette with mixed veg in cocnut oil and when done and plates and still hot i let a tspn of butter melt over it. Yummmmmm

Sat fat brekkie FTW!

Sapsorrow

metamorphosis wrote: »

This morning i fried and omlette with mixed veg in cocnut oil and when done and plates and still hot i let a tspn of butter melt over it. Yummmmmm

Sat fat brekkie FTW!

Pffffft... :rolleyes:

In the oven right now I have hangover casserole consisting of sliced boiled spuds, onions, garlic, red peppers and smokey bacon fried in butter all swimming in creme fraiche and eggs and topped with thickly sliced tomatoes and about a block of cheddar grated on top

metamorphosis

Fancy bringing me some in work? Ah go on.

In daze i didn't bring enough food, here til 9.30 tonight. The only thing in the canteen is a stew that looks like it's been stewing since i was conceived. Id rather chew my own arm.

There's an Alsi 2min from me so im gonnahave to try and sneak up. Craving for their Greek Yogurt and dark choc with almonds. nom nom

Dixie Chick

I have to say until i reallt started looking into the "dcience" og food and me being a total non scientist, i always believed that sat fat was really really bad but i have come around for definite about it. My favorite thing to ahve now is a nice bit of chorizo, yuuum. If i was in weight watchers id be kicked out

rubadub

metamorphosis wrote: »

stew that looks like it's been stewing since i was conceived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_stew

A perpetual stew is a pot into which whatever one can find is placed and cooked. The pot is never emptied all the way, as ingredients are replenished as necessary. The concept is often a common element in descriptions of medieval inns. Ripley's Believe It or Not! makes mention of stews in some Polynesian families which have been cooking for over one hundred years.

My coconut oil came in a plastic bottle, I heated it in the microwave and squeezed it and tubes of oil came out, I put these in a glass jar in the fridge so I have hard cocktail sausage like chunks of oil which are easy to handle. Some oil comes in glass bottles, in future I am going to heat it and pour it into an icecube tray to set them. I got a tray to make mini icecubes on ebay and might use that, each cube will be about 2g.

Khannie

I'd say boards is responsible for a change in my fat eating habits. I used to use golden olive, think sunflower oil was the best thing ever, etc. Now I'd only use butter. Butter ftw! Some people find that surprising (given that I'd eat a lot cleaner than the average punter). That's just the "omg! satfatkills!" that is still perpetuated.

I still cut the fat off my steak for example, but mostly because I don't like the taste / texture of it.

Amtmann

Okay, facetious question time

If fats aren't that bad, then what's wrong with regular fast food, take out, McDonalds, etc.?

Is it because:

a) they are very carb heavy
b) they contain trans fats
c) they don't keep you full, meaning you feel hungry again soon and will therefore eat more later on
d) there's nothing wrong with them at all
e) none of the above

rocky

I had a last meal yesterday that brought my fat intake at 50% of total calories for the day:

Chicken liver fried in coconut oil, eggs fried in coconut oil, some butter over the liver melting, and some sour cream.

plus, a desiccated coconut bread...

Need to find alternatives to grain flour for baking bread, any suggestions? Would potato flour be any good?

TommyKnocker

Can someone please provide the name of an retail outlet in Dublin City Center where you can purchase good quality Coconut oil.

Is it available in most health food stores or only Asian food stores?

rubadub

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Is it available in most health food stores or only Asian food stores?

Some guy posted up a very cheap place before, I can't find the post though. Health shops usually have virgin oil which costs a lot more, asian shops usually have non-virgin. There has been debate before about virgin vs non-virgin, i.e. is non-virgin as beneficial, there was no definite conclusion.

Some coconut oil might be hydrogenated, but there is no real reason to do this as it is solid at (Irish) room temps, maybe it is done to stay solid in hotter climates. I got "double horse" brand in the ethnic shop in blackrock market in dublin, 1L for €6. It had listed trans fats as zero which would infer it is not hydrogenated.

€3.49 for 1L here
http://bombaybazar.ie/product_info.php?products_id=1399
I am not sure if it is hydrogenated and I reckon the other posters source could only be a little cheaper than that price.

Bombay Bazaar - Santry
Unit 28 , Kaybhee House,
Shanowen Road,
Santry,
Dublin 9. Ph: 018420222

Opening Hours
Mon- Wed : 10.00-19.00
Thursday- Saturday : 10.00-20.00
Sundays and Bank holiday mondays : 11.00-20.00

Bombay Bazaar - City Center
135 Thomas Street,
Dublin 8.
Ph: 016708740

Opening Hours
Mon- saturday 10.00-20.00
Sundays and bank holiday mondays 10.00-19.00

Bombay Bazaar - Blanchardstwon
Unit 2,
Coolmine Industrial Estate,
Clonsilla,
Blanchardstwon,
Dublin 15.
Ph: 016405506

Opening Hours
Mon- saturday 10.00-20.00
Sundays and bank holiday mondays 10.00-19.00

If you are not frying in the oil and just want to increase the oil intake I am guessing you can just eat more dessicated coconut -readily available and cheap in supermarkets, it is nice in pancakes or with oats etc. Can anybody confirm if it is just as beneficial?

Some asian shops seem to specialise in coconut products, some have loads in the freezer section.

TommyKnocker

Cheers rubadub, much appreciated.

Khannie

Tremelo wrote: »

Okay, facetious question time

If fats aren't that bad, then what's wrong with regular fast food, take out, McDonalds, etc.?

Is it because:

a) they are very carb heavy
b) they contain trans fats
c) they don't keep you full, meaning you feel hungry again soon and will therefore eat more later on
d) there's nothing wrong with them at all
e) none of the above

A few things (this is only my limited understanding):
They use cheap oil which tends to be high in unsaturated fats. They cook at high heat. As a result the oils get damaged over, and over, and over, and over. By the time you ingest them, they're probably completely destroyed.
The meals are carb and fat heavy, leading to fat storage.
The quality of the meat you're taking in is probably very low.

brianthebard

rubadub wrote: »

Some guy posted up a very cheap place before, I can't find the post though. Health shops usually have virgin oil which costs a lot more, asian shops usually have non-virgin. There has been debate before about virgin vs non-virgin, i.e. is non-virgin as beneficial, there was no definite conclusion.

Some coconut oil might be hydrogenated, but there is no real reason to do this as it is solid at (Irish) room temps, maybe it is done to stay solid in hotter climates. I got "double horse" brand in the ethnic shop in blackrock market in dublin, 1L for €6. It had listed trans fats as zero which would infer it is not hydrogenated.

I imagine since you see coconut oil in plastic bottles and glass bottles made for pouring that the oil would not stay solid in hot climates but would be pourable like olive oil? I don't think they would need to hydrogenate it to make it stay solid then, unless it was to create long life oil. I did a little (very little) research on virgin oil before and since it does not refer to anything specific as it does with olive oil I would not bother paying extra for virgin coconut oil. One of the signs of virgin coconut oil is that it smells of coconut which all of the oils I've bought from the asian shops have done.

Sapsorrow

Tremelo wrote: »

Okay, facetious question time

If fats aren't that bad, then what's wrong with regular fast food, take out, McDonalds, etc.?

Is it because:

a) they are very carb heavy
b) they contain trans fats
c) they don't keep you full, meaning you feel hungry again soon and will therefore eat more later on
d) there's nothing wrong with them at all
e) none of the above

Not all fats are good or bad, there are some in both camps. It's not the saturated fats (naturally present in the meats and cheese) that are the problem but the polyunsaturated fats (the omega 6 ones like seed oils) that everything is fried in that are bad.

Polyunsaturated fats are the ones that are liquid at room temperature (saturated fat is hard), because of their chemical structure (they have atoms in their carbon chains, hence polyunsaturated) they are very prone to oxidation, that is, the acceptance of an oxygen atom onto the unpaired hydrogen atoms and so become rancid when exposed to air.

This chemical reaction is sped up massively by hard boiling of the fat as happens in the deep fat fryers and so the fat becomes more and more oxidised with every use. Seeing as fast food joints reuse their oils over and over again they are generally extremely toxic before they bother chucking it out.

Most people assume fast foods are bad because of their saturated fat content, so it's kind of ironic that the saturated fats (who's carbon chains are completely saturated with hydrogen and so very stable and resistant to oxidation reactions) are by far the safest fats to use in cooking. If fast food joints were still cooking in lard we'd all be much better off.

I don't know if that makes sense of not, I hated doing lipid chemistry

Refined sugar in the soft drinks, sauces, dressings etc is another issue with again obviously.

teacosy

This recent review of the evidence from the University of Copenhagen concluded that " the evidence from epidemiologic, clinical, and mechanistic studies is consistent in finding that the risk of CHD is reduced when SFAs are replaced with polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs)"

Red Cortina

Khannie wrote: »

I'd say boards is responsible for a change in my fat eating habits. I used to use golden olive, think sunflower oil was the best thing ever, etc. Now I'd only use butter. Butter ftw!

Same here!

Khannie wrote: »

I still cut the fat off my steak for example, but mostly because I don't like the taste / texture of it.

I used to do this but now I eat the whole lot!

I know that you guys aren't really talking in absolutes, but I think the worst thing that's happened to eating habits (by worst, I'm exaggerating) is the concept of good and bad foods.

Like anything, eating lots of saturated fats is bad for you, and eating no saturated fats is bad for you. All things in moderation.

Red Cortina

true-or-false wrote: »

I know that you guys aren't really talking in absolutes, but I think the worst thing that's happened to eating habits (by worst, I'm exaggerating) is the concept of good and bad foods.

In fairness though I think that the only thing that you can call a rancid polyunsaturated fat is 'bad'!!!