Garda and Social Welfare now combining for checkpoints

Owen

Friend was stopped by a Gard checkpoint in Ballincollig this week, and there was a Social Welfare officer present. Asked him as many questions as they could, who he was, what was his PPS number was he working, same questions to the other people in the vehicle.

Anyone else find it a tad too much? [EDIT: removed this bit about demographics on hindsight and helpful advice from posters] and the ordinary guy on the street now can't take his car out on the road without being given the 3rd degree.

Miaireland

Seriously? I haven't seen that. I heard of sustoms checking cars and disel in the Cork City and County in the past week or so but nothing about Social Welfare.

allthedoyles

As far as I know , there can be a combination of 4 at checkpoints :

• gardai
• customs
• social welfare
• RSA

Jagle

surely your under no obligation to answer, i cant see why you would be. anyone wanna correct me here?

Plazaman

That type of checkpoint has bee around for years. Different areas, different demographics targets. Used to be a lot of them on the border looking for workers in the North claiming in the South or vice versa. Non Nationals have been targeted also, that's the one thing about Social Welfare, they treat everyone like crap equally.

evilivor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Friend was stopped by a Gard checkpoint in Ballincollig this week, and there was a Social Welfare officer present. Asked him as many questions as they could, who he was, what was his PPS number was he working, same questions to the other people in the vehicle.

Anyone else find it a tad too much? We're paying out millions to non-nationals who have no interest in working at all, and the ordinary guy on the street now can't take his car out on the road without being given the 3rd degree.

So you claim we are "paying out millions to non-nationals who have no interest in working at all" but when Welfare bring in checks to catch people you have a problem with that?

Owen

Do you think it'll catch welfare scammers?

If someone is a scammer - and obviously all scammers deserve to be caught, no argument there - they'll forget their PPSN, give a false one, or have a pre-made up story about the car being borrowed, or just bought and it isn't registered to them, or something else that can't be validated either which way.

Of course, now I realise that this will now no longer be a thread about the checkpoints, but will descent in typical boards fashion into the depths of OT obscurity where we discuss scammers, and not the checkpoints and go mental quoting each other

Have never encountered one of these checkpoints, if I did I'd let the Garda see my drivers licence and tell the social welfare dude/dudette to use my name and address to investigate me, I don't have a clue what my PPS is to be honest and I don't carry the card around with me.

kollegeknight

second that.... id have to phone my mammy for my pps number. or pull out a payslip somewhere

mudokon

The checkpoints may work as you could catch people unaware as most wouldn't be expecting the social welfare to be at Garda checkpoints. If this type of checkpoint has been used before as has been mentioned already then logically there must have been some success if it is being implemented again.

You made it easy to drag the thread off topic by singling out non-nationals in the OP when you could have just as easily said we are paying out millions to people who have no interest in working.

Owen

Maybe I'm over-reacting to it too though.

Owen

mudokon wrote: »

You made it easy to drag the thread off topic by singling out non-nationals

True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

So - that's my bad, and I probably shouldn't have posted that. Obviously too late now as I've pulled the trigger, but I'll retract that.

corkcomp

social welfare officers are well known for using every trick in the book to catch people out. I know a guy who was on the dole while working as a carpenter, he had his own van full of tools etc and he used to borrow his mothers car to go to the social welfare office because they had people checking for presence of vans / work vehicles!

staker

Fair play Paintdoctor, no harm done.

As a tax payer I think these checkpoints are very necessary as there is way too much scamming going on and needs to be clamped down on.
I always took it for granted people knew their PPS tbh,I know mine.

PaintDoctor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

I would imagine he was talking out his arse, did he tell you the one about non nationals getting €20,000 to set themselves up in a Taxi, that's one of their favourites. The same chap probably under declares his income :pac:

Jagle

staker wrote: »

I always took it for granted people knew their PPS tbh,I know mine.

i work never claimed any sort of social welfare or grant, never known my pps number, never really have to use it so dont remember it, its written down at home somewhere thats all

evilivor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

So - that's my bad, and I probably shouldn't have posted that. Obviously too late now as I've pulled the trigger, but I'll retract that.

And now you've doubled it with the old racist taxi driver's urban myth of the social welfare buggies.

Owen

Honestly, I'd say he was being genuine. I know they can spout all sorts of crap at the best of times - like all of us I suppose - but this didn't have your usual story full of holes spin you'd normally get with a made up tale. He wasn't in the Taxi at the time, and had a look of general disappointment telling it to me.

evilivor - have I done something to upset you?

finnegan2010

corkcomp wrote: »

social welfare officers are well known for using every trick in the book to catch people out. I know a guy who was on the dole while working as a carpenter, he had his own van full of tools etc and he used to borrow his mothers car to go to the social welfare office because they had people checking for presence of vans / work vehicles!

Every trick in the book me arse,
Tell him to park around the corner from the dole office (minimum 1 minute walk) and put on a pair of these bad boys. And he will be collecting his scratcher in no time:D

evilivor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Honestly, I'd say he was being genuine. I know they can spout all sorts of crap at the best of times - like all of us I suppose - but this didn't have your usual story full of holes spin you'd normally get with a made up tale. He wasn't in the Taxi at the time, and had a look of general disappointment telling it to me.

evilivor - have I done something to upset you?

Not at all. I'm challenging what could be read as racism - most welfare cheats in this country are Irish.

Checkpoints help catch all the culprits.

Owen

I'm going out with a non-national for over 5 years. What you misconstrued as racism, was something else - and I don't appreciate being accused of it, I'm about as anti-racism as they come. I guess I'm more against the policy which allows people coming into the country purely for the purpose of mooching off the state rather than wanting to make a go of things.

I do agree with you about the checkpoints - if they work, then good. I just think there's been a whole glut of checkpoints hit Cork in the last 2 weeks, Diesel, the usual Insurance/Tax/NCT, and now this. I just think that while checkpoints are a great thing that too many of them at the one time makes people feel like they're living in a police state.

mikemac

PaintDoctor wrote: »

True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

Ah the buggy story?

I first heard that in Galway around 2003, then I moved to Belfast and despite having another system I was told it. Heard it in Dublin too.
And on Pat Kenny's radio show

There are scams out there, this buggy is a tall tale though.
In ten years time someone else will tell you the same story about leaving a buggy behind

finnegan2010

feelingstressed wrote: »

Ah the buggy story?

I first heard that in Galway around 2003, then I moved to Belfast and despite having another system I was told it. Heard it in Dublin too.
And on Pat Kenny's radio show

There are scams out there, this buggy is a tall tale though.
In ten years time someone else will tell you the same story about leaving a buggy behind

You saying the buggy story is made up? I collect them from the bus stops and taxi ranks and sell them on. Dont believe me ? Check the link !

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/childrenitems/1800413

I gotta make a living some how.
(PS if you know any bus stops and taxi ranks that have a buggy dumping problem call 1800 Buggyman for free collection 24-7 top rates paid):cool:

evilivor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I'm going out with a non-national for over 5 years. What you misconstrued as racism, was something else - and I don't appreciate being accused of it, I'm about as anti-racism as they come. I guess I'm more against the policy which allows people coming into the country purely for the purpose of mooching off the state rather than wanting to make a go of things.

I do agree with you about the checkpoints - if they work, then good. I just think there's been a whole glut of checkpoints hit Cork in the last 2 weeks, Diesel, the usual Insurance/Tax/NCT, and now this. I just think that while checkpoints are a great thing that too many of them at the one time makes people feel like they're living in a police state.

I said "could be read" which is why I challenged the point. I didn't and don't accuse you of racism, so please don't take it that way. Nothing personal meant at all and I actually tried to send you a PM to that effect but those device is complicated.

Going back to telly now - enjoy your night.

Owen

Lads, if it is an urban myth than well and good. I didn't think the guy was telling porkies, and I'm a pretty good judge of character. Can we draw a line through that now?

I'm sorry I started this thread now. I had hoped to have a discussion about whether or not in the current climate with pressure on people like it's never been before if it's fair to have so many checkpoints like we've had in the last few weeks, and also to make people aware of the fact that there are extra checkpoints on the road, but due to my own stupidity in wording my original post, and some interesting allegations/accusations, the thread seems on a downward unrecoverable spiral.

mudokon

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I had hoped to have a discussion about whether or not in the current climate with pressure on people like it's never been before if it's fair to have so many checkpoints like we've had in the last few weeks, and also to make people aware of the fact that there are extra checkpoints on the road.

Unfortunately the two go hand in hand, when there are more people on the live register it makes it easier for abuse of the system so stricter enforcement measures have to be taken.

Cadyboo

You dont have to tell them anything. Either the guards or social welfare. How dare they stop cars and waste gardai time to catch someone on the dole, when there are drug dealers out there making more money than us and the guards put together. Im sorry but they left the bankers and politicians off with millions so why get involved in social welfare money. And how do they do that?? Ok if someone has tools or work clothes on but other than that I dont understand how they can determine anything from someone being in a car!

Buceph

Aye. What can they actually tell? Are they just looking for people with tools in the back of the car, or in a commercial vehicle?

I love the drug dealer thing :pac: Easiest way to stamp out drug dealing is to heavily penalise ANYONE and EVERYONE caught in possession of ANY illegal drug. Be it a joint, a tablet or a gram of coke. It will never be done though. Also the Gardai know very well who is dealing drugs in this city of ours from the street dealers to the importers and for whatever reason they aren't being stopped. The evening rag is littered with cases of suspended sentances being lashed out left, right and centre. Of course we don't get to read about the info traded to the Gardai.

If the social welfare folk were serious about catching people working while claiming the dole etc there are far far better ways then stopping cars and interrogating folk. So I would wholeheartedly agree with PaintDoctor on that one.

Has the makings of a class thread :cool:

staker

Cadyboo wrote: »

You dont have to tell them anything. Either the guards or social welfare. How dare they stop cars and waste gardai time to catch someone on the dole, when there are drug dealers out there making more money than us and the guards put together.

But it's a criminal offence to knowingly obtain monies under false pretences,maybe not on the grand and more evil scale as drug dealers but it's still acrime that needs to be clamped down on. I'd imagine any persons who would be flagged on the roadside as guilty of SW fraud would hardly come quietly to be reprimanded, therefore the gardai I'd say.

Cadyboo wrote: »

Im sorry but they left the bankers and politicians off with millions so why get involved in social welfare money.

That makes no sense imo.

Cadyboo wrote: »

And how do they do that?? Ok if someone has tools or work clothes on but other than that I dont understand how they can determine anything from someone being in a car!

This I'd agree with, giving that any builder or tradesman or whoever who has gone bust could very well have been using his jeep,van,lorry whatever as his main means of transport back in the day anyhow.

mudokon

staker wrote: »

But it's a criminal offence to knowingly obtain monies under false pretences,maybe not on the grand and more evil scale as drug dealers but it's still acrime that needs to be clamped down on. I'd imagine any persons who would be flagged on the roadside as guilty of SW fraud would hardly come quietly to be reprimanded, therefore the gardai I'd say.

I'd say there would never be a case of a person being arrested at a roadblock for social welfare fraud as these cases would take a lot of time to procure the evidence required for a conviction.

They are with the Gardai as the social welfare would have no right to stop you at a road block. What they are doing is just taking details while you are talking to the Gards. If they get your PPS number it is a simple cross check to see if you are claiming and if you have answered yes or no to whether you are employed.

As RoverJames says, this is not the most effective way of catching welfare fraudsters but most people when faced with authority figures will answer honestly and as I suggested earlier the surpise factor of being approached by the welfare at a road block doesn't leave a lot of time to formulate a story if you are claiming fraudulently.

Sapsorrow

The social welfare were doing spot checks on staff in the English market too a few weeks ago, bit intrusive I thought.

SomeFool

Jagle wrote: »

surely your under no obligation to answer, i cant see why you would be. anyone wanna correct me here?

Cadyboo wrote: »

You dont have to tell them anything. Either the guards or social welfare. How dare they stop cars and waste gardai time to catch someone on the dole, when there are drug dealers out there making more money than us and the guards put together.

If you have nothing to hide there's no harm in answering a few questions and going about life happily after, why draw the stress on yourself by arguing?

man.about.town

this is fantastic, there are so many welfare cheats out there. i work near ifsc and all you have to is just drive down around the **** hole sherrif street and you'll see so many people living in the council houses claiming social welfare yet driving 08 bmw and holidaying all the time. nowim sure drugs plays a part.

the way i look at it is, i work, pay my taxes, pay my insurance, pay my car tax, i dont use agricultural diesel so i will not be a concerned at all if i come across a garda, welfare, customs, rsa checkpoint. hey should do this more often.

man.about.town

man.about.town wrote: »

this is fantastic, there are so many welfare cheats out there. i work near ifsc and all you have to is just drive down around the **** hole sherrif street and you'll see so many people living in the council houses claiming social welfare yet driving 08 bmw and holidaying all the time. nowim sure drugs plays a part

Just out of interest how do you know they are claiming social welfare? I know quite a few people living in Cork City who live in council houses who were brought up in them, their parents have passed away but it is still their home, they are working and pay an agreed rent (quite a fair bit actually). Your attitude to council housing and those living in it are quite blinkered.

staker

mudokon wrote: »

I'd say there would never be a case of a person being arrested at a roadblock for social welfare fraud as these cases would take a lot of time to procure the evidence required for a conviction.

They are with the Gardai as the social welfare would have no right to stop you at a road block. What they are doing is just taking details while you are talking to the Gards. If they get your PPS number it is a simple cross check to see if you are claiming and if you have answered yes or no to whether you are employed.

Hadn't thought of it that way,thanks

Cadyboo

staker wrote: »

Cadyboo wrote: »

Im sorry but they left the bankers and politicians off with millions so why get involved in social welfare money.

That makes no sense imo.

Im saying the guards never got involved in all the bankers and politicians that have taken millions over the years, yet are trying to hunt down people who are getting 200e a week.

I know there are social welfare scammers but do any of people out there know anyone that is on the dole?? Take this type of situation. People who had well paid jobs, got mortgages on houses in the middle of nowhere because they couldnt afford to live in the city. Now are stuck down there with no money for petrol let alone their house. Can you understand how long they waited to get the dole? Especially if they were self employed? So they get offered a few days work, nothing permanent and you want them to sign off for a few weeks while the work is there, then sign back on and wait another 2 months to get money again?

mudokon

Cadyboo wrote: »

Im saying the guards never got involved in all the bankers and politicians that have taken millions over the years, yet are trying to hunt down people who are getting 200e a week.

I could be wrong here but weren't the gards pretty much powerless regarding bankers etc due to lax laws regarding white collar crime? That being said I haven't heard much about that white collar crime bill that they were planning to introduce recently.

Even if that bill was passed it would be unlikely that it would apply retroactively.

Sephiroth_dude

Very windy out there tonight,nearly got blown away on my way back from the cinema :O

charlemont

PaintDoctor wrote: »

True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

So - that's my bad, and I probably shouldn't have posted that. Obviously too late now as I've pulled the trigger, but I'll retract that.

That rubbish has been going around Cork for years, I see its now Buggies rather than the 1 Buggie in the original, Iv heard that story loads of times..

caseyann

Sounds like a cover up looking for someone else.

caseyann

charlemont wrote: »

That rubbish has been going around Cork for years, I see its now Buggies rather than the 1 Buggie in the original, Iv heard that story loads of times..

Have you never spotted the abandoned buggies at bus stops?
I personally saw it aswell.So seeing is believing.Dont much care what people think i know what i saw.

JP Liz V1

Who the hell knows their pps number off by heart :eek:

mudokon

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Who the hell knows their pps number off by heart :eek:

I do, I still know my national insurance number from England as well and I haven't used that in years.

evilivor

caseyann wrote: »

Have you never spotted the abandoned buggies at bus stops?
I personally saw it aswell.So seeing is believing.Dont much care what people think i know what i saw.

Did you see who left the buggies?

dory

The story started out as an African lady getting on a bus. Now it has progressed to two women and a taxi.

Do social welfare really hand out buggies?

Flesh Gorden

PaintDoctor wrote: »

True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

That crap story has been around for a few years but it changes between Polish/Nigerians/travelers, taxi/bus, the rest stays the same


Similar to the one about 5 years ago which I heard a good few times which kept changing from the Latvian/Lithuanian girlfriend/employee
who racked up a 500/1000 phone bill ringing her mothers mobile back home and disappeared


I'd highly recommended doing my taxi driver test,
A few years ago being dropped to work I pretended to work in a nearby building
and asked him if he knew anything about the place I really worked in,
I then listened to the bull coming out of his mouth about someone that didn't even exist,
when getting out I let him know he was full of sh1t

evilivor

dory wrote: »

The story started out as an African lady getting on a bus. Now it has progressed to two women and a taxi.

Do social welfare really hand out buggies?

No but than can give money towards them - but it applies to all people who are claiming social welfare - Irish, other EU, asylum seekers or otherwise - there are no special cases - "Exceptional needs payments — such as help towards the purchase of buggies — may also be provided towards the cost of children’s needs or bills can also be paid in both cases at the discretion of the community Care Welfare Officer."


"Refuting allegations that women have been seen abandoning prams and buggies at bus stops, Mr. Kennedy has detailed that in the case of lost or stolen buggies the Gardai are informed. Assistance has been provided towards the cost of 86 prams/buggies in the first five months of this year."

^ That's from a newspaper article from 2003.

as is this:

Myths dispelled

"Contrary to rumour, which is often accepted as fact by the misinformed, asylum seekers do not receive any of the following:

Subsidised cars

Free Car Insurance

Lump sum payments on their children’s birthday

Get free taxis

Free televisions

Free stereos

Free mobile telephones

Assistance with the cost of mobile telephone calls

Free electricity

Free television licences"

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/story/?trs=kfkfmhcwid

caseyann

evilivor wrote: »

Did you see who left the buggies?

Twice a black women,and once a junkie girl who could barely walk and had no kid with her.

caseyann

evilivor wrote: »

No but than can give money towards them - but it applies to all people who are claiming social welfare - Irish, other EU, asylum seekers or otherwise - there are no special cases - "Exceptional needs payments — such as help towards the purchase of buggies — may also be provided towards the cost of children’s needs or bills can also be paid in both cases at the discretion of the community Care Welfare Officer."


"Refuting allegations that women have been seen abandoning prams and buggies at bus stops, Mr. Kennedy has detailed that in the case of lost or stolen buggies the Gardai are informed. Assistance has been provided towards the cost of 86 prams/buggies in the first five months of this year."

^ That's from a newspaper article from 2003.

as is this:

Myths dispelled

"Contrary to rumour, which is often accepted as fact by the misinformed, asylum seekers do not receive any of the following:

Subsidised cars

Free Car Insurance

Lump sum payments on their children’s birthday

Get free taxis

Free televisions

Free stereos

Free mobile telephones

Assistance with the cost of mobile telephone calls

Free electricity

Free television licences"

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/story/?trs=kfkfmhcwid

I never heard any of those other Rumours just the cash for a car because they were being racially abused on buses and free travel expenses.
They get a 2grand check when they move into their houses for their cooker etc... and friend of mine got a house off the council and the council guy said.Thanks god we are giving a house to Irish girl in private estate because they were handing them only out to non Irish.He also said they complain when no downstairs bathroom.

How the hell did this thread get to be about buggies and non Irish lol :P

Back to the thread title,i believe they must be looking for other people and wouldnt be stopping people in cars for welfare checks.

Funsterdelux

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Who the hell knows their pps number off by heart :eek:

Anyone who's good at remembering numbers!

I do, but then again I've been using it alot recently.

I've heard of these kind of check points, up in Meath before christmas there was one.

Well in nearly 2 years of driving I've only been stopped once.

Garda: "Do you have drink taken?"
Me: "No"
Garda: "Grand so, good night"
Me: "ok, you too, vroooooooooom"

If they catch people fair enough, I'm sure they do.