Right lane ignorance

montane

Was getting a lift with an acquaintance today. Its been a while since I was a passenger in anyones car.

I was horrified to see her hogging the right lane all the way down the n7 and then on the motorway with a line of traffic behind. Then I'd hear her complain "gosh, that guy is driving so close to me" or " whats wrong with this idiot undertaking me".

Needless to say I have never experienced so much inner conflict during a car journey before. I did say a few times while glancing in the side mirror, "oh look, seems people want to get past", or "seems the left lane is free". The response i got was "yeah but i'll stick in the fast lane"

ElleEm

Is your friend driving long?
I did loads of lessons, am driving almost 2 years now, but was never told about the right lane thing.
I discovered it fairly quickly after the good oul Garda Siochana pulled me over and told me

Shoulda said something OP especially as she brought it up herself

Atomic Pineapple

I give out to anyone who's doing things wrong be it a man or a women, why did you feel like you couldn't correct her on her bad driving?

montane

LIGHTNING wrote: »

They wont learn unless you say something to them!

I used up any credit for driving critique earlier in the journey when she nearly smashed into the car in front (serious delayed reaction when the car in front starting braking hard). I shouted "brake, brake!" to which I got "oh yeah, relax!". Also this is merely an acquaintance doing me a favor, not a family member or friend who I would have no problem telling. Actually there was so many things wrong, I didn't know where to start and was aghast that there are actually people out there who genuinely dont know this !

Fr Tod Umptious

montane wrote: »

Was getting a lift with an acquaintance today. Its been a while since I was a passenger in anyones car.

I was horrified to see her hogging the right lane all the way down the n7 and then on the motorway with a line of traffic behind. Then I'd hear her complain "gosh, that guy is driving so close to me" or " whats wrong with this idiot undertaking me".

Needless to say I have never experienced so much inner conflict during a car journey before. I did say a few times while glancing in the side mirror, "oh look, seems people want to get past", or "seems the left lane is free". The response i got was "yeah but i'll stick in the fast lane"

'fast lane' that's the key to it.

It is not a 'fast lane', it's an overtaking lane

People should figure that out for themselves but it does not help when official sinage reads like 'Fast Lane Ahead', or 'End of Fast Lane'

EPM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People should figure that out for themselves but it does not help when official sinage reads like 'Fast Lane Ahead', or 'End of Fast Lane'

I have to say I have seen slow lane ahead etc but never fast lane. Overtaking lane too but never, ever fast lane.

Idleater

draffodx wrote: »

why did you feel like you couldn't correct her on her bad driving?

Perhaps he wants a lift home too?

R.O.R

EPM wrote: »

I have to say I have seen slow lane ahead etc but never fast lane. Overtaking lane too but never, ever fast lane.

The overhead signs on the M1 and M50 regulaly reference the Fast Lane.

a_v525

montane wrote: »

Was getting a lift with an acquaintance today. Its been a while since I was a passenger in anyones car.

I was horrified to see her hogging the right lane all the way down the n7 and then on the motorway with a line of traffic behind. Then I'd hear her complain "gosh, that guy is driving so close to me" or " whats wrong with this idiot undertaking me".

Needless to say I have never experienced so much inner conflict during a car journey before. I did say a few times while glancing in the side mirror, "oh look, seems people want to get past", or "seems the left lane is free". The response i got was "yeah but i'll stick in the fast lane"

I still cant, and never will, understand how some people actually notice themselves being undertaken & still see no harm in staying put in the overtaking lane....

And then when you flash them to tell them you want to overtake them they break & slow down, while staying in the overtaking lane, then when you illegally undertake them they start flashing at you like a paedofile in a creche!!!

Cuddlesworth

a_v525 wrote: »

I still cant, and never will, understand how some people actually notice themselves being undertaken & still see no harm in staying put in the overtaking lane....

And then when you flash them to tell them you want to overtake them they break & slow down, while staying in the overtaking lane, then when you illegally undertake them they start flashing at you like a paedofile in a creche!!!

Its lazy driving. They don't want to have to worry about checking their mirrors, indicating, checking their blind spot etc. Pull straight over to the right, drive at the speed you want, put your blinders on and ignore the world around you. Its a pretty common driving style in this country, on single lane roads you see them stick to the back of the car in front of them, no forward observation, eyeballs glued to the reg plate.

As a bike user I see this so often after making my way up queue's of cars travelling at 80-100kph on motorways. And the flashing of the lights after you go by them is a mixture of ignorance and shock that you have intruded upon their world.

a_v525

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its lazy driving. They don't want to have to worry about checking their mirrors, indicating, checking their blind spot etc. Pull straight over to the right, drive at the speed you want, put your blinders on and ignore the world around you. Its a pretty common driving style in this country, on single lane roads you see them stick to the back of the car in front of them, no forward observation, eyeballs glued to the reg plate.

And the flashing of the lights after you go by them is a mixture of ignorance and shock that you have intruded upon their world.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Degree in Psychology perhaps?

-Corkie-

I was in the pub the other nite and there was this one that just passed her test telling her mate that she was travelling from Cork to Mallow doing 100 KPH in the fast lane!!!!!.

She was giving out about some woman behind her flashing the lights at her and saying what hurry is she in and me doing the limit!!!.

I was going to throw my pint at her only it is so expensive. The sad thing is this is a lot of people`s opinion on driving....:rolleyes:

EPM

R.O.R wrote: »

The overhead signs on the M1 and M50 regulaly reference the Fast Lane.

Ah...sure I'm from the bog:p

Seriously, that's brutal! Does anybody proof read this crap? There was a bit on ray d'arcy yesterday about that kind of thing.

kazul

ElleEm wrote: »

Is your friend driving long?
I did loads of lessons, am driving almost 2 years now, but was never told about the right lane thing.
I discovered it fairly quickly after the good oul Garda Siochana pulled me over and told me

I hope you're taking the piss here, did you ever read the rules of the road? This beggars belief, and the smiley at the end just rubs it in.
I can just imagine "Oh, sorry Garda I didn't realise that I am obliged by law to stay in the left lane unless overtaking"

Nameless1

At the end of the day some people are unbelievably thick on the road, especially when it comes to motorway driving but it beggers belief that someone doesnt have the common sense to move into the left lane when they can see other drivers flashing their lights, driving up their ar$e and undertaking. An idiot like this just has to remove their head from their ar$e and use the tiniest bit of common sense :mad:

Big Nasty

Done. To. Death.

Can we not have a mega thread merge for this topic or just ban it like fog lights?

EPM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Done. To. Death.

Can we not have a mega thread merge for this topic or just ban it like fog lights?

NO

Big Nasty

EPM wrote: »

NO

Exercising your Mod bicep already EPM?

-Corkie-

EPM wrote: »

NO

Actually I agree with him:). With all these dash cams now maybe we could start a obnoxious driving thread with all videos of this kinda stuff in it. A lot of the lads here have them..:cool:

kazul

As usual, the best policy is to assume that everybody else on the road is an idiot/pissed/on the phone/distracted by kids etc. and to drive accordingly/defensively and anticipate hazards.
I explained the advanced driving technique of "talking the drive" to a novice who just failed her test recently and she thought it was hilarious.
My wife doesn't drive and can't understand how driving all day can make me tired but constant observation and anticipation, even on motorways, is exhausting.
And I hate being "forced" to undertake.

**Timbuk2**

To be fair, you shouldn't be forced into undertaking - it's an illegal, and dangerous, manouver (I'm never sure how to spell that word).

What I usually do is, and I'm not sure if it's correct, is

Approach the person I wish to overtake from behind. Keep a safe distance, but express my wish to overtake by switching on my right indicator.

After allowing the person time to move into the driving lane, if he/she hasn't done so, I might briefly flash the lights. It usually isn't necessary though.

What's worrying is that after I pass them out, sometimes they move right back into the overtaking lane. :pac:

Mint Sauce

I think the problem with this lack of understanding re the overtaking lane is that alot of drivers never encounter them during lessons and testing, unless they live in an urban area.

Once you live outside these main areas the busiest roads you will encounter during your lessons and test are the single carriageway national roads, and no garantee you'll even get on them.

I done my test in Sligo. The test its self and every lesson invloved traveling atleast one section of a local HQDC, so it was drilled into me, keep out of the overtaking lane, unless you are over taking. Keep in the left lane.

Unfortunatly, even if you do live near a DC, theres still no garantee it will be part of the lessons/test, a friend recently done their test in Letterkenny. Was no where near the DC, and dont think they went over 50km. Was shocked to hear what was covered in mine.

Big Nasty

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

To be fair, you shouldn't be forced into overtaking - it's an illegal, and dangerous, manouver (I'm never sure how to spell that word).

Did you mean undertaking there?

**Timbuk2**

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Did you mean undertaking there?

Yes! Sorry - it's been a long day

Post edited.

kazul

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

To be fair, you shouldn't be forced into undertaking - it's an illegal, and dangerous, manouver (I'm never sure how to spell that word).

What I usually do is, and I'm not sure if it's correct, is

Approach the person I wish to overtake from behind. Keep a safe distance, but express my wish to overtake by switching on my right indicator.

After allowing the person time to move into the driving lane, if he/she hasn't done so, I might briefly flash the lights. It usually isn't necessary though.

What's worrying is that after I pass them out, sometimes they move right back into the overtaking lane. :pac:

Been there, done all that Some people are just oblivious to what's going on around them :mad:
I only undertake on very rare occasions, unlike the tool in the 99 7 series outbound on the N1 in Drumcondra this afternoon who felt the need to use the bus lane to get one place in front
There are time when I wish I had James Bond style machine guns instead of a horn.
Speaking of having a horn, later lads...

RandomAccess

montane wrote: »

Needless to say I have never experienced so much inner conflict during a car journey before.

I reckon you should do your duty as a proud MotorForian, pull the handbrake and grab the wheel, rest assured that your collective fiery death will be celebrated for years as you slide lemming-like towards a cast concrete bridge.

I propose we commission a medal, "The order of Motors"
For service above and beyond the call of duty.

Ps, aim for someone with their fogs on.

Mc Love

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

To be fair, you shouldn't be forced into undertaking - it's an illegal, and dangerous, manouver (I'm never sure how to spell that word).

What I usually do is, and I'm not sure if it's correct, is

Approach the person I wish to overtake from behind. Keep a safe distance, but express my wish to overtake by switching on my right indicator.

After allowing the person time to move into the driving lane, if he/she hasn't done so, I might briefly flash the lights. It usually isn't necessary though.

What's worrying is that after I pass them out, sometimes they move right back into the overtaking lane. :pac:

Thats generallly successful - until you meet the fool who flashes their hazards at you and stay in front of you

crosstownk

Motorway + Ireland = Muppets.

vibe666

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Did you mean undertaking there?

didn't that get done to death as well?

i thought it was settled that 'undertaking' is what funeral directors do, overtaking on the nearside is what people do when someone is hogging the overtaking lane(s) and won't move over?

i actually had some clown who had been refusing to pull over (doing 80-85km/h) from the outside overtaking lane on the M50 this morning (for quite some time) with me flashing him to pull over with nothing in the middle lane for hundreds of yards actually positioned himself straddling the two lanes for about half a km when he thought I might overtake him on the nearside (or undertake, if we're sticking with that now:)).

by the time I eventually got past him (on the nearside), the temptation to just side swipe him and slam him into the crash barrier was *almost* unbearable. :mad:

quite often at certain times of the day you could drive unobstructed for miles on the inside lane of the M50 with 25% of the drivers in the middle lane and the other 75% of them all bunched up on the outside (overtaking:)) lane with them all doing the same approximate speed and they're still oblivious to what they are doing.

the worst part is, they end up forcing you to do the same thing most of the time as no matter how fast you want to go in the overtaking lanes to get past people there is always someone in front of you pootling along hogging the outside and the minute you pull in to the lane to the left of you when there is a gap, the car behind will inevitably box you in so you can't get out again and you either end up having to sit in the outside lane with them for the duration to "keep your spot" or overtake on the inside and then try and fight your way back out again further up.

the thread should stay open anyway, especially as we already have a suitable meme for the topic. :pac:

Raskolnikov

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

'fast lane' that's the key to it.

It is not a 'fast lane', it's an overtaking lane

That kills me everytime I hear it.

It's everyone's duty to correct this misconception!

THall04

All this fuss and bother over "Fast Lane" Vs "Overtaking Lane"......

Going by the rules of the road , there's no such thing as the "Fast Lane" on a motorway.
There's also no such thing as the "Overtaking Lane"

The lanes have numbers ,or are referred to as "inside" or "outside"

"It is very important that you understand the purpose of each lane on a motorway. To help explain how and when to move from one lane to another, each lane is given a number. The picture below shows that lane 1 is the lane nearest the hard shoulder. This is also known as the inside lane. On a two-lane motorway, the lane nearest the central median is lane 2 (also called the outside lane). On a three-lane motorway, this lane is lane 3"

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

SV

Stinicker

Imagine the sort of carnage that would occur if a large proportion of Irish drivers were to suddenly find themselves on the Autobahn? Where you stay in the driving lane unless overtaking or doing really high speed in which case you will be changing lane about every 30 seconds so you may aswell stay in the overtaking lane only watch your mirror as some guy could come up behind you doing 250km/h even though you yourself are doing 200km/h!.

When i'm on the Motorway I am usually doing anywhere from 130km/h to 150/km/h and Yes I am breaking the speed limit but I believe it is safe to do so with my level of driving skill, car and high quality of road taking account the variables like traffic levels, weather etc.

It is not up to other drivers to police the road, if the Gardai catch me it is between me and them and not for some other numpty to hog the overtaking lane at 100km/h because he or she thinks that it is fine and good to hold back other drivers from speeding.

The overtaking lane is for overtaking and you should merge back to the left hand lane when done, although when driving very fast, you often find yourself in a state of almost continuous overtaking for several kilometres, swerving in and out and breaking and accelerating repeatedly between the lanes becomes a monotonous method as happens when there are many cars infront in the left lane, obviously if the road is quite then you can move left and continue at speed in the left lane.

Basically Irish people haven't a clue and it will take anything upto twenty years and a new generation of drivers before we get used to this new fangled motorway network. Proper driver education starting in school as Mandatory lessons like the US would be a great step because at the moment I would say 90% of Irish drivers haven't a clue.

The fact that 60% of Irish cars are <1.4l junk heap third world spec cars cabable of 0-60 in about three days also holds us back. A Motorway ban of Nissan Micras and Toyota Yaris's and Corollas would make the Motorway a much more enjoyable place for us consumers of decent spec'd cars.

**Timbuk2**

Stinicker wrote: »

The fact that 60% of Irish cars are <1.4l junk heap third world spec cars cabable of 0-60 in about three days also holds us back. A Motorway ban of Nissan Micras and Toyota Yaris's and Corollas would make the Motorway a much more enjoyable place for us consumers of decent spec'd cars.

I'm not quite sure this is necessary. I drive my mother's '98 1.3L Toyota Starlet and it's well capable of travelling motorway speeds, and accelerating up to ~120km/h even on short slip roads (e.g. out of motorway service stations). If 'slower' cars kept in the correct lanes, then they wouldn't be a problem.

Stinicker

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I'm not quite sure this is necessary. I drive my mother's '98 1.3L Toyota Starlet and it's well capable of travelling motorway speeds, and accelerating up to ~120km/h even on short slip roads (e.g. out of motorway service stations). If 'slower' cars kept in the correct lanes, then they wouldn't be a problem.

Well yes as you say those cars despite their misgivings are Motorway speed capable when you really force them they will eventually get there, However how many of these are driven by drivers whose right foot is well acquainted with the accelerator? Very little I'd reckon

stoneill

Just undertake the feckers and be done with it.

I usually drive up on the inside lane until right beside and then I match speed with them. It sort of 'invades their space'.

Mr Magners

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

To be fair, you shouldn't be forced into undertaking - it's an illegal, and dangerous, manouver (I'm never sure how to spell that word).

What I usually do is, and I'm not sure if it's correct, is

Approach the person I wish to overtake from behind. Keep a safe distance, but express my wish to overtake by switching on my right indicator.

After allowing the person time to move into the driving lane, if he/she hasn't done so, I might briefly flash the lights. It usually isn't necessary though.

What's worrying is that after I pass them out, sometimes they move right back into the overtaking lane. :pac:

I like the idea of what you're saying and it would work in an ideal world. However,the reality is that if somebody is oblivious to the rules of the road and is camped in the OT lane I don't think a subtle reminder like turning on your indicator is going to work. Granted it will sometimes.

Like the woman on the M7 yesterday morning. I tried the indicator thing, flashed the lights and when I then undertook her I gave a tap on the horn to remind her to move over and she carried on regardless. I kept an eye on her in my mirror and saw an Audi having to do the same as me moments later.

I think the problem is ignorance of the rules. In some cases people in the OT lane are daydreaming and a flash of the lights is all it takes and they often look embarrassed when passing them.

The majority of people, however, just haven't a clue.

lyverbird1

kazul wrote: »

As usual, the best policy is to assume that everybody else on the road is an idiot/pissed/on the phone/distracted by kids etc. and to drive accordingly/defensively and anticipate hazards.
I explained the advanced driving technique of "talking the drive" to a novice who just failed her test recently and she thought it was hilarious.
My wife doesn't drive and can't understand how driving all day can make me tired but constant observation and anticipation, even on motorways, is exhausting.
And I hate being "forced" to undertake.

I like this, I started motorcycling a couple of years ago and the best assumption I could have made starting out was that almost everyone else on the road is an asshole, won't see me and even if they do they will just swerve towards me or pull out in front of me and assume I will dodge them. Has saved my life on more than one occasion...

Berty

I drive for a living and do around 2500kms per week. I GAVE UP a long time ago on people. I WILL undertake them if they do not move. I don't give a rats ass anymore. Indicate, flash, flash again, beep horn while flashing then undertake.

To hell with these asshats.

lyverbird1

Berty wrote: »

I drive for a living and do around 2500kms per week. I GAVE UP a long time ago on people. I WILL undertake them if they do not move. I don't give a rats ass anymore. Indicate, flash, flash again, beep horn while flashing then undertake.

To hell with these asshats.

Asshats. I like it. Permission to reuse please. It sounds like a swear that would be very effective to let of steam in the car while shouting at other motorists...

ElleEm

kazul wrote: »

I hope you're taking the piss here, did you ever read the rules of the road? This beggars belief, and the smiley at the end just rubs it in.
I can just imagine "Oh, sorry Garda I didn't realise that I am obliged by law to stay in the left lane unless overtaking"

Of course I read the rules of the road, but it's very difficult to remember every single thing in the book. I admit I was making a mistake. My point is in ALL the lessons I took (with two different instructors), and going for drives with friends/ family (full licence holders) nobody ever corrected my driving. I am a safe, consciencious driver and was mortified that I had been driving for almost a year without abiding by this law.

In short, people can only correct their mistakes if they are told that they are making mistakes.

folan

stick this link into your sig: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

it might start getting people to notice.

folan

Also, on the rules there, does the section on Overtaking allow this "undertaking", as we commonly call it?

barryj

Penalty points for lane hoggers would earn a nice bit of revenue and solve the problem.

- barry

Guy:Incognito

Stinicker wrote: »

The fact that 60% of Irish cars are <1.4l junk heap third world spec cars cabable of 0-60 in about three days also holds us back. A Motorway ban of Nissan Micras and Toyota Yaris's and Corollas would make the Motorway a much more enjoyable place for us consumers of decent spec'd cars.

Thats bull. The area my Grandmother lives in Germany ( a few miles from the French border) has for some reason a huge proportion of original Renault twingos. The things are everywhere. For anyone not familiarwith the Twingo its the Clios smaller brother. These people all seem to manage to get around just fine.

Despite what people over here seem to think about this mystical place called "the autobahn" , it's full of people in small cars. I've put a couple of thousand miles on my grandmothers Fiesta on the autobahn. the car spends a good chunk of its life on then.

Anan1

ElleEm wrote: »

Of course I read the rules of the road, but it's very difficult to remember every single thing in the book. I admit I was making a mistake. My point is in ALL the lessons I took (with two different instructors), and going for drives with friends/ family (full licence holders) nobody ever corrected my driving. I am a safe, consciencious driver and was mortified that I had been driving for almost a year without abiding by this law.

In short, people can only correct their mistakes if they are told that they are making mistakes.

It is shameful that someone can drive around in the overtaking lane for two years before getting pulled up on it. Did nobody ever beep at/flash you on dual carriageways/motorways?

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

It is shameful that someone can drive around in the overtaking lane for two years before getting pulled up on it. Did nobody ever beep at/flash you on dual carriageways/motorways?

on the upside, he/she must have amazing fuel economy to be able to stay in the outside lane for two years without running out of fuel! :pac:

Fr Tod Umptious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Despite what people over here seem to think about this mystical place called "the autobahn" , it's full of people in small cars. I've put a couple of thousand miles on my grandmothers Fiesta on the autobahn. the car spends a good chunk of its life on then.

True, my 1.9 Golf Diesel got overtaken may a Smart 'sports car' on day.

Cuddlesworth

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

True, my 1.9 Golf Diesel got overtaken may a Smart 'sports car' on day.

Did the spoiler on the back help?

ElleEm

Anan1 wrote: »

It is shameful that someone can drive around in the overtaking lane for two years before getting pulled up on it. Did nobody ever beep at/flash you on dual carriageways/motorways?

It was about ten months of driving before the Gardai pulled me over and told me. I wouldn't have been driving on motorways (learner permit holder), and never got beeped on dual carriages. In fairness, I wouldn't have been on them that much with the areas I'd be driving. When I was on dual carriages, I would have full licenced passengers, and noone ever corrected me. Even the day the Gardai pulled me over, my boyfriend, who was a passenger, was like "yeah, I thought you would know that".