Roundabout

biko

What RSA thinks:

Dear **name**,

While it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any, however as a general rule if taking any Exit between the 8.00am to 1.00pm positions, motorists should approach in the Left Hand Lane, Road Position or as dictated by Road Markings.
If taking any Exit from the 1.pm to 5.pm position motorists should approach in the Right Hand Lane or Position.

Your are correct on your understanding of the procedures to be adopted at Roundabouts in your email.

Your colleagues are not correct in their understanding that they base their approach on the number of exits only and not take into account the layout of the Exits at the Roundabouts.

The above guidelines are for reference only’.

I hope this is of help.

Kind regards,
**name**
Road Safety Authority

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

Unrealistic

EDIT: Already been posted by Biko. I should have hit reload before posting.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Very, it is not in Galway at all.



This is the NEW Galway Standard Roundabout Design for the Corrib Park roundabout

Is that fake or is that real... ? It's bloody hard to tell. Ah, it's not - but knowing Galway, I wouldn't be surprised if they copy it.

DanielI

It's real all right!

Get your T-shirt here:
http://www.visitwiltshire.co.uk/swindon/tourist-information/visitor-infomation/gift-shop/t-shirts

harr

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Very, it is not in Galway at all.



This is the NEW Galway Standard Roundabout Design for the Corrib Park roundabout

wtf is that:eek:

DanielI

biko wrote: »

What RSA thinks:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

I think that the "before/after 12o'clock rule" should not be applied with respect to the actual roundabout layout, but to the roundabout information sign. The picture below (Font R/A) shows what I'm talking about:

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=map+galway+ireland&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Galway,+County+Galway&gl=ie&ll=53.290271,-9.017565&spn=0.002155,0.013733&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.290269,-9.017576&panoid=OAGlijcT5crTW3CZgg7Odg&cbp=11,262.65,,0,4.65

I want to take the 2nd exit here. According to the info sign and the rule, Lane 1 is the correct choice. But if the rule is applied to the actual layout, Lane 2 is the correct choice. So which one should I follow? The Rule Law applies in the same way to all of us, so if I were not a local (not knowing what physically laid ahead), I would have to rely on the information sign so I would choose Lane 1.

desaparecidos

I'm going to start beeping people out of it when I see them doing it any more.

It baffles me that some people think the manurer in the first post is proper.

Iwannahurl

biko wrote: »

What RSA thinks:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

I'm afraid I do not understand that, and IMO the RSA's reference to "1.pm" and "5.pm" is just silly.

I have never encountered this method of negotiating a roundabout. My understanding is that lane position and signalling are determined by the exit you are taking. The third and subsequent exits require the inside lane and a right indicator until you are ready to exit.

My hunch is that the RSA's roundabout video is based on the simplest 'ideal' roundabout, and they are deliberately avoiding the complexities of large multi-lane roundabouts.

Iwannahurl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrfdQIg4ap0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPANKRHL9HU

dloob

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that fake or is that real... ? It's bloody hard to tell. Ah, it's not - but knowing Galway, I wouldn't be surprised if they copy it.

It's real it's the magic roundabout in Swindon,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29
I've driven through it, it's not as bad as it looks.

KevR

The City Council should just put down road markings on the approach to this roundabout and then there would be no need for a deabte on which lane is correct.

Passed through the Menlo Park roundabout this morning and a guy was pulled over by the Garda Traffic Corps just after the pedestrian lights (exit if you're heading up to the Tuam Rd roundabout). Didn't see what he did but the thought did cross my mind that the Garda saw him using the wrong lane on the roundabout..

I have heard of the Gardai pulling people for using the left lane to take the third exit on the Menlo Pk roundabout. I think they also used to pull people for the same thing at the old N6 roundabout in Oranmore.

kippy

BornToBe? wrote: »

No, it's not,

nothing worse than bad drivers giving out to people doing the right thing.
When traveling straight (I would consider that exist to be within the "straight ahead" parameters) stay in the Left lane, unless road markings say other wise.
and now before you have a hissy fit:

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

But, if you do feel strongly about this, continue to do what you do and when you crash or cause a crash, a nice judge will educate you and you'll have to pay for the privllage.

Thanks

Travelling "straight" - has nothing to do with it tbh.
There are 2 exits before the "straight" exit so you cannot and should not take the left lane to go out the 3rd exit.
ValerieR has it as close as you can get to the correct roundabout technique.
Its got nothing to do with "straight ahead", "left and right" exits. Its got to do with with the order of exits and if everyone stuck within those rules (which arent that fecking complicated, there'd be far fewer tips on roundabouts.
Also, and something a lot in this country dont seem to appreciated. You need to use mirrors AND indicators on roundabouts also - they are handy.

Iwannahurl

KevR wrote: »

The City Council should just put down road markings on the approach to this roundabout and then there would be no need for a deabte on which lane is correct.

Passed through the Menlo Park roundabout this morning and a guy was pulled over by the Garda Traffic Corps just after the pedestrian lights (exit if you're heading up to the Tuam Rd roundabout). Didn't see what he did but the thought did cross my mind that the Garda saw him using the wrong lane on the roundabout..

I have heard of the Gardai pulling people for using the left lane to take the third exit on the Menlo Pk roundabout. I think they also used to pull people for the same thing at the old N6 roundabout in Oranmore.

Road traffic legislation, the RoTR, driver training, the RSA and Public Service Announcements ought to be enough -- but clearly isn't.

AGS have indeed pulled and prosecuted motorists for "jumping the queue" on an Oranmore roundabout.

I am curious as to why AGS are so diligent about roundabout 'queue jumping' but are rarely (if ever) to be seen clamping down on other routine, erm, naughtiness such as, for example, abuse of pedestrian facilities by motorists.

kippy

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Road traffic legislation, the RoTR, driver training, the RSA and Public Service Announcements ought to be enough -- but clearly isn't.

AGS have indeed pulled and prosecuted motorists for "jumping the queue" on an Oranmore roundabout.

I am curious as to why AGS are so diligent about roundabout 'queue jumping' but are rarely (if ever) to be seen clamping down on other routine lawbreaking such as, for example, abuse of pedestrian facilities by motorists.

Well it is obvious from this post and indeed others that people aren't 100% clear on what they should be doing and NOW - after writing my post above and reading what has come back from the RSA, I too am VERY confused. My driving instructor taught me the exits "method" and I have found it works in almost all situations but looking at RSA documentation it seems to be incorrect!!
The MAIN issue I have seen that causes the problems are the fact that MOST if not ALL documentation on roundabouts assume a 4 exit, 9,12 and 3 clock exits with roads of equal importance which, as many have stated here, are rare.

dloob

The poll on the motoring forum is split 50/50.
The RSA do seem to favor the o'clock method.
Their driver fault marking scheme for the driving test was posted in the other thread, this is the bit on roundabouts.

Where an applicant intends to take any exit in the 6 o’clock to 12 o’clock position, subject to road
markings, the approach should normally be in the left-hand lane.
The approach should normally be in the right-hand lane for any exit after the 12 o’clock position, or a fault
may be recorded for ‘Position at Roundabouts’

It's page six of the pdf http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FDocuments%2FADI%2FDrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf&rct=j&q=rsa%20drving%20fault%20marking%20guidelines&ei=OaJGTcioMJ2AhAe6uIXLAQ&usg=AFQjCNFr3Jb896H4mLWtGdEtU5AXOtIplw&cad=rja
It certainly doesn't help that all their examples use their perfectly symetrical 4 exit roundabout, a few odd roundabout examples would help.

Iwannahurl

dloob wrote: »

The poll on the motoring forum is split 50/50.
The RSA do seem to favor the o'clock method.
Their driver fault marking scheme for the driving test was posted in the other thread, this is the bit on roundabouts.

It's page six of the pdf http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FDocuments%2FADI%2FDrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf&rct=j&q=rsa%20drving%20fault%20marking%20guidelines&ei=OaJGTcioMJ2AhAe6uIXLAQ&usg=AFQjCNFr3Jb896H4mLWtGdEtU5AXOtIplw&cad=rja
It certainly doesn't help that all their examples use their perfectly symetrical 4 exit roundabout, a few odd roundabout examples would help.

Thanks for that. I was not aware of the 'clock method'.

Perhaps roads engineers and urban "planners" design roundabouts in the same way they design cycle "facilities", ie with little regard for road traffic legislation and good driving practice.

TristanPeter

As an Approved Driving Instructor I would say that either lane is acceptable provided it is done with caution. Lane discipline is important of course but these things are not always black or white. Just always be conscious of bad drivers on the road and that many drivers switch lanes willy-nilly on all roundabouts. If I was using the inside lane (nearer to roundabout green area) I would come off in the right lane. If using the left lane I would come off in the left lane. Problems arise when drivers enter in the right lane and come off in the left lane thus switching lanes and possibly colliding. If drivers are in the correct (left) lane for going onto the Headford Road from the road by Dunnes Stores then there should be no problem.

Iwannahurl

TristanPeter wrote: »

As an Approved Driving Instructor I would say that either lane is acceptable provided it is done with caution. Lane discipline is important of course but these things are not always black or white. Just always be conscious of bad drivers on the road and that many drivers switch lanes willy-nilly on all roundabouts. If I was using the inside lane (nearer to roundabout green area) I would come off in the right lane. If using the left lane I would come off in the left lane. Problems arise when drivers enter in the right lane and come off in the left lane thus switching lanes and possibly colliding. If drivers are in the correct (left) lane for going onto the Headford Road from the road by Dunnes Stores then there should be no problem.

Oh dear. No wonder there is such confusion.

Applicants should normally follow their entry lane around the roundabout until they pass the exit before the one which they intend to take, where they should switch to the left-hand lane and proceed to their intended exit.

Applicants should normally exit in the left-hand lane if it is clear.

~RSA, Driving Fault Marking Guidelines

Does this kind of messing happen in the UK and in other European countries where roundabouts are common?

Iwannahurl

I wonder how the clock method would work here if you're on the 4-lane Sean Mulvoy road (R338) and wish to continue through the roundabout onto the 2-lane Moneenageisha Road (R338)?

There may be more and far better examples. IMO, the clock method is imprecise. It's relative, whereas the number of exits is absolute, no?

biko

I use the clock method pretty much everywhere where I can't see markings/ there aren't marking.
Only place this doesn't work is actually in OP's roundabout coming into it from Bothar na dTreabh and going straight, up past Menlo Hotel.
People in the right lane often intend to turn left into the dual Headford road "fast lane" so if you're in the left lane you're in their way.

Therefore I use the right lane there to go straight (also it's slightly after 12 o'clock so still working according to the clock system).

dilallio

harr wrote: »

wtf is that:eek:

Swindon

Iwannahurl

biko wrote: »

I use the clock method pretty much everywhere where I can't see markings/ there aren't marking.
Only place this doesn't work is actually in OP's roundabout coming into it from Bothar na dTreabh and going straight, up past Menlo Hotel.
People in the right lane often intend to turn left into the dual Headford road "fast lane" so if you're in the left lane you're in their way.

Therefore I use the right lane there to go straight (also it's slightly after 12 o'clock so still working according to the clock system).

IMO your example illustrates the inutility of the clock method and imprecise terms like "going straight".

Look again at the OP's roundabout. If you are on Bothar na dTreabh and intending to go past the Menlo Park Hotel, then you will be taking the third exit. Therefore, according to the rules that I learned and which I have seen reinforced since by the RSA, you should be in the right (inside) lane.

Incidentally, my understanding is that traffic on the roundabout must yield to traffic on their left which is also on the roundabout, though I can't find a reference for that just now.

Unrealistic

The sign as you approach that roundabout makes it even more clear that the right lane is the only you should enter the roundabout if you want to continue up Bothar na dTreabh.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Headford+Road,+Galway,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=55.755786,37.617633&sspn=0.812958,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Headford+Rd,+Galway,+County+Galway,+Ireland&ll=53.284973,-9.046383&spn=0.02699,0.077162&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.285411,-9.046025&panoid=TEt7JhfYfH-x-jnUt19aiA&cbp=12,9.91,,0,10.61

Iwannahurl

Unrealistic wrote: »

The sign as you approach that roundabout makes it even more clear that the right lane is the only you should enter the roundabout if you want to continue up Bothar na dTreabh.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Headford+Road,+Galway,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=55.755786,37.617633&sspn=0.812958,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Headford+Rd,+Galway,+County+Galway,+Ireland&ll=53.284973,-9.046383&spn=0.02699,0.077162&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.285411,-9.046025&panoid=TEt7JhfYfH-x-jnUt19aiA&cbp=12,9.91,,0,10.61

I was referring to travelling from Bothar na dTreabh towards the Dyke Road/Menlo past the Menlo Park Hotel.

Can you show the appropriate roundabout sign on Bothar na dTreabh? Thanks in advance. Sorry, I'm sh:t at using Streetview!

biko

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Can you show the appropriate roundabout sign on Bothar na dTreabh? Thanks in advance. Sorry, I'm sh:t at using Streetview!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Headford+Road,+Galway,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=55.755786,37.617633&sspn=0.812958,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Headford+Rd,+Galway,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=k&layer=c&cbll=53.287074,-9.041691&panoid=oRlFFxVFR946v-cJWz9Iwg&cbp=11,238.29,,1,-3.5&ll=53.287069,-9.041692&spn=0.000451,0.00284&z=19

Iwannahurl

biko wrote: »

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Headford+Road,+Galway,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=55.755786,37.617633&sspn=0.812958,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Headford+Rd,+Galway,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=k&layer=c&cbll=53.287074,-9.041691&panoid=oRlFFxVFR946v-cJWz9Iwg&cbp=11,238.29,,1,-3.5&ll=53.287069,-9.041692&spn=0.000451,0.00284&z=19

Thanks for that.

Menlo is clearly signed as the third exit (or "1 o'clock") hence the requirement to use the Right lane.

To my mind the "clock" and "going straight" references are at best vague in this situation, whereas "third exit" is perfectly clear.

TobyZiegler

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Oh dear. No wonder there is such confusion.

Applicants should normally follow their entry lane around the roundabout until they pass the exit before the one which they intend to take, where they should switch to the left-hand lane and proceed to their intended exit.

Applicants should normally exit in the left-hand lane if it is clear.

~RSA, Driving Fault Marking Guidelines

QUOTE]

I think that refers to when the exit you are taking only has one lane.

Where it has two lanes you should stick to the lane you are in.

In the current debate I would always take the right lane. My driving instructor used the number of the exit rule and just said that exit 3 and up should be taken in the right lane (because usually exit 3 is past 12 o clock I suppose.)

Iwannahurl

TobyZiegler wrote: »

I think that refers to when the exit you are taking only has one lane.

Where it has two lanes you should stick to the lane you are in.

In the current debate I would always take the right lane. My driving instructor used the number of the exit rule and just said that exit 3 and up should be taken in the right lane (because usually exit 3 is past 12 o clock I suppose.)

For some reason I cannot access the Driving Fault Marking Guidelines just now.

Re the above, can you cite the part(s) that specifically refer to just one lane on exit?

Here are the UK guidelines, in case they're of interest.

TobyZiegler

Iwannahurl wrote: »

For some reason I cannot access the Driving Fault Marking Guidelines just now.

Re the above, can you cite the part(s) that specifically refer to just one lane on exit?
.

Nope sorry again this was just what my instructor (and the instructor above) always said.

I know that from personal experience I am often on a roundabout and there are two cars at the same point both leaving the roundabout together - it just makes it a lot easier if the person on the inside doesnt suddenly jump into the outer lane when there are two lanes anyway.

TristanPeter

+1

As I said above, these things are not always black and white. If people just try to stick to the lane they enter the roundabout on and leave on the same lane (2 lane roundabout) then things should be fine. You just have to watch out for people switching lanes mid-roundabout or on exiting. MSM