Roundabout

desaparecidos

This is wrong:



Thanks for listening.

Sponge Bob

Very, it is not in Galway at all.

desaparecidos wrote: »

This is wrong:



Thanks for listening.

This is the NEW Galway Standard Roundabout Design for the Corrib Park roundabout

biko

OP, where is that RB?

Unrealistic

I'm guessing it is just a random roundabout used to illustrate an all too common practice among Galway drivers, entering the roundabout from the wrong lane.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This is the NEW Galway Standard Roundabout Design for the Corrib Park roundabout

:eek:Christ that makes my head hurt just looking at it

It is the Menlo Park / Ford garage / pillo hotel roundabout
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.286929,-9.04509&spn=0.002668,0.008256&t=h&z=18

Aero28

It took me a while to figure out what roundabout it is. Yes, I agree that turning right and remaining on the left lane coming from terryland dunnes to get onto the eastern bypass, is wrong.

mo_bhicycle

Aero28 wrote: »

It took me a while to figure out what roundabout it is. Yes, I agree that turning right and remaining on the left lane coming from terryland dunnes to get onto the eastern bypass, is wrong.

Totally agree.
Sad thing is that almost every second car taking that outside lane is doing what is illustrated in the picture. Very frustrating for others on the roundabout and those trying to get on to it from the Headford road.

BornToBe?

No, it's not,

nothing worse than bad drivers giving out to people doing the right thing.
When traveling straight (I would consider that exist to be within the "straight ahead" parameters) stay in the Left lane, unless road markings say other wise.
and now before you have a hissy fit:

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

But, if you do feel strongly about this, continue to do what you do and when you crash or cause a crash, a nice judge will educate you and you'll have to pay for the privllage.

Thanks

mo_bhicycle

BornToBe? wrote: »

I would consider that exist to be within the "straight ahead" parameters

http://goo.gl/maps/oY9r
Couldn't possibly be any straighter :P

BornToBe?

Straight by exist number, not straight line, so technically straight would be exist 2 and a half, IMO exist 2 or 3 fall either side of that. Its a 5 exist round about so guessin it throws people off.
Also straight ahead by ( N6 ) Main Road / Majority of traffic etc. so hence take priority and keep traffic flowing, therefore reducing traffic.

Average-Ro

BornToBe? wrote: »

No, it's not,

nothing worse than bad drivers giving out to people doing the right thing.
When traveling straight (I would consider that exist to be within the "straight ahead" parameters) stay in the Left lane, unless road markings say other wise.
and now before you have a hissy fit:

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

But, if you do feel strongly about this, continue to do what you do and when you crash or cause a crash, a nice judge will educate you and you'll have to pay for the privllage.

Thanks

Yes it is:p

That exit is past 12 o' clock so you should be in the right hand lane. There's no way that's straight ahead.

mo_bhicycle

Similar question was asked before: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=298952
No concrete answer, but the majority of people seem to be of the opinion that in situations such as the one in this thread that the inside lane should be taken.
I'd imagine we could argue this one forever as it seems to be a matter of opinion.

BornToBe?

Average-Ro wrote: »

Yes it is:p

That exit is past 12 o' clock so you should be in the right hand lane. There's no way that's straight ahead.

Again, your on the N6, so continue on the N6, and dont be thinking about how many degrees off centre the exist is.
Anyways, do what ya want, but I'm not gonna argue about it. Just dont like OP preaching to me, esp when they're just pissed off about getting stuck in traffic coming off a secondary route onto a primary route, the hint is in the sceondary / primary

Average-Ro

BornToBe? wrote: »

Again, your on the N6, so continue on the N6, and dont be thinking about how many degrees off centre the exist is.
Anyways, do what ya want, but I'm not gonna argue about it. Just dont like OP preaching to me, esp when they're just pissed off about getting stuck in traffic coming off a secondary route onto a primary route, the hint is in the sceondary / primary

So if the N6 was the 5th exit, you'd go around entirely on the outside?

I think about the "degrees" as that's how I was thought to drive, and that's how I passed my test. That's how everyone else I know learned it as well.

BornToBe?

Then you'd remember Primary routes take priority, and no, a primary route would not double back on itself so that you mentioned situation wouldn't happen.
If you want a debate about it, go to the motor section and enjoy, but just consider traffic backing up all along the headford road and on to the bridge as people try and use the right hand lane, therefore halving the amount of cars able to continue on the N6,
also remember you learned on a 4 exist round about, real life has made this junction a 5 exist, its up to you to adjust, location of the exist isn't priority, the primary route (straight ahead) is.
It's saturday night, we all have better things to do than argue this.

Unrealistic

BornToBe? wrote: »

Straight by exist number, not straight line, so technically straight would be exist 2 and a half, IMO exist 2 or 3 fall either side of that. Its a 5 exist round about so guessin it throws people off.
Also straight ahead by ( N6 ) Main Road / Majority of traffic etc. so hence take priority and keep traffic flowing, therefore reducing traffic.

Do you have any reference that verifies your straight by number of exits rather than straight line theory? I used to think that as well until I had reason to re-read the Rules of the Road recently and the only interpretation I could take from that is that straight means a straight line. It would seem logical that (presuming you are not doubling back) you have two exits to the left of straight ahead and two exits to the right so you should be in the left lane for the first two and the right lane for the other two.

BornToBe? wrote: »

Again, your on the N6, so continue on the N6

By the same token you could say you are on the Headford Road as you approach that roundabout so continuing on the Headford Road (2nd exit) is the correct definition of continuing straight.

Average-Ro

BornToBe? wrote: »

Then you'd remember Primary routes take priority, and no, a primary route would not double back on itself so that you mentioned situation wouldn't happen.
If you want a debate about it, go to the motor section and enjoy, but just consider traffic backing up all along the headford road and on to the bridge as people try and use the right hand lane, therefore halving the amount of cars able to continue on the N6,
also remember you learned on a 4 exist round about, real life has made this junction a 5 exist, its up to you to adjust, location of the exist isn't priority, the primary route (straight ahead) is.
It's saturday night, we all have better things to do than argue this.

Actually, I learned on a 5 exit roundabout; my instructor said I'll rarley encounter those cross-shaped 4 lane ones;)

I've never heard of the primary route being priority (that's not to say it's not true, I don't claim to know everything) but I've heard everywhere that the location of the exit is how you judge which lane to take, so I'm inclined to believe that.

loser2old4board

These roundabout threads are really frustrating. They start off with the good intention of somebody trying to give correct instructions and then descend into contradictory arguments which defeats the purpose and further confuses.
So for anyone who wants to learn the correct way to use roundabouts I'd say not on boards.ie.

Iwannahurl

Roundabouts >>> roundabout threads >>> roundabout arguments.

Galway's badly-designed multi-lane roundabouts are a serious hazard for cyclists and pedestrians, and a big headache for many motorists. According to Garda statistics, 25% of crashes in the city occur on roundabouts.

When I am travelling from the Quincentenary Bridge side and heading up Bothar na dTreabh, I take the inside lane (ie the one closest to the centre of the roundabout), signalling right until I pass the second exit.

However, my OH often objects and I am frequently over(under)taken by other motorists sneaking up on my left.

Is there a belief, common practice or official permission that this is allowed on multilane roundabouts unless directions are marked on the lanes?

I have never felt it necessary to travel this route by bike, and I pity any cyclist who has to.

desaparecidos

BornToBe? wrote: »

Again, your on the N6, so continue on the N6

I don't think so

ValerieR

The way I learnt, in another European country, ...

- if you are taking the 1st or 2nd exit (no matter what the angle is), take the 'slow' lane
- if you are taking the 2nd or later exit, take the 'fast' lane.
- if you are taking a later exit, move, while on the roundabout, from the 'fast' lane to the 'slow' lane before your exit

V

xxGalwayGirlxx

Galway drivers have to be the worst drivers I have ever seen!! Shocking the stuff you see everyday!!

niamhocxox

In my opinion if your are taking an exit past 12 o clock I would be in the right hand lane.

However, if im honest, I know that if I appoached the roundabout in question I probably would be in the left hand lane.

Simply by mistake because I don't think I'd realise on approach that it was just past 12 o clock. (Sure I can't change lanes when I'm at the roundabout then.)

My point is, I wouldn't have intensionally done it if you get me. I'm sure others make this genuine mistake too. Its easy to see its past 12 o clock on the aerial view.....

If I used this roundabout everyday I would be in the right hand lane though. I'm just talking about the first time you approach it.....

GerardKeating

biko wrote: »

OP, where is that RB?

Kind of looks like The Magic Roundabout in Swindon.

Average-Ro

niamhocxox wrote: »

In my opinion if your are taking an exit past 12 o clock I would be in the right hand lane.

However, if im honest, I know that if I appoached the roundabout in question I probably would be in the left hand lane.

Simply by mistake because I don't think I'd realise on approach that it was just past 12 o clock. (Sure I can't change lanes when I'm at the roundabout then.)

My point is, I wouldn't have intensionally done it if you get me. I'm sure others make this genuine mistake too. Its easy to see its past 12 o clock on the aerial view.....

If I used this roundabout everyday I would be in the right hand lane though. I'm just talking about the first time you approach it.....

That's what the sign is for before you reach the roundabout. Have a look at it before passing it and you'll see if your exit is before or after 12.

I know what you mean though. Sometimes I might miss the sign if I'm somewhere I've never driven before. In that case I go in the right hand lane and keep an eye out for the sign pointing me to the right exit. Once I know where it is, I keep going around until I come to it again and exit then.

I think it's a safer way of doing it.

Black_Knight

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

^^ Thats how I always see it. Though seeing cars going down that left lane and then wizzing out the N6 is awful frustrating, when its in all honesty, quite safe to do so.

Gingganggooley

Average-Ro wrote: »

Yes it is:p

That exit is past 12 o' clock so you should be in the right hand lane. There's no way that's straight ahead.

This is correct, as is the OP's assertion.

dloob

BornToBe? wrote: »

Again, your on the N6, so continue on the N6

Before the M6 the N6 used to come into a roundabout at Oranmore and take third exit off to the right.
You often got sneaky types heading down the left lane and continuing on the N6, cause they didn't like to queue.
Most people though correctly used the right lane since the primary or seconday status of roads off a roundabout have nothing to do with navigating it.
I heard the Guards did a few people for driving without due consideration for using the left lane on a few occasions.

galah

it really doesn't leave a great impression of the traffic planning/roads departments if people have to come online to discuss how to negotiate a roundabout, does it?

I always thought roads should be layed out/signposted clearly so that anyone can negotiate them easily and dare I say it, intuitively?

Knowing that Irish drivers generally leave a lot to be desired, these kinda road layouts REALLY don't help the situation...I wish someone in the council would cop on and mark the lanes at least...a bit of white paint could easily clear up a lot of the problems. It would still take people to see the markings and act ccordingly, of course, but at least there won't be anymore debates...

That said, I always though taking the left lane from Terryland to go straight up Bothar na Tradbh was ok as long as the people in the right hand lane going the same direction take the correct exit lane and don't cross your path...then there's no poblem...On the other hand, since I found that roundabout really slippery when it rains and because of the lane issues, I always try to avoid it completely ;-)

biko

Discussion in Motors on the same thing
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056163797
You can vote there too

Btw http://vimeo.com/8553732

biko

What RSA thinks:

Dear **name**,

While it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any, however as a general rule if taking any Exit between the 8.00am to 1.00pm positions, motorists should approach in the Left Hand Lane, Road Position or as dictated by Road Markings.
If taking any Exit from the 1.pm to 5.pm position motorists should approach in the Right Hand Lane or Position.

Your are correct on your understanding of the procedures to be adopted at Roundabouts in your email.

Your colleagues are not correct in their understanding that they base their approach on the number of exits only and not take into account the layout of the Exits at the Roundabouts.

The above guidelines are for reference only’.

I hope this is of help.

Kind regards,
**name**
Road Safety Authority

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

Unrealistic

EDIT: Already been posted by Biko. I should have hit reload before posting.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Very, it is not in Galway at all.



This is the NEW Galway Standard Roundabout Design for the Corrib Park roundabout

Is that fake or is that real... ? It's bloody hard to tell. Ah, it's not - but knowing Galway, I wouldn't be surprised if they copy it.

DanielI

It's real all right!

Get your T-shirt here:
http://www.visitwiltshire.co.uk/swindon/tourist-information/visitor-infomation/gift-shop/t-shirts

harr

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Very, it is not in Galway at all.



This is the NEW Galway Standard Roundabout Design for the Corrib Park roundabout

wtf is that:eek:

DanielI

biko wrote: »

What RSA thinks:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

I think that the "before/after 12o'clock rule" should not be applied with respect to the actual roundabout layout, but to the roundabout information sign. The picture below (Font R/A) shows what I'm talking about:

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=map+galway+ireland&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Galway,+County+Galway&gl=ie&ll=53.290271,-9.017565&spn=0.002155,0.013733&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.290269,-9.017576&panoid=OAGlijcT5crTW3CZgg7Odg&cbp=11,262.65,,0,4.65

I want to take the 2nd exit here. According to the info sign and the rule, Lane 1 is the correct choice. But if the rule is applied to the actual layout, Lane 2 is the correct choice. So which one should I follow? The Rule Law applies in the same way to all of us, so if I were not a local (not knowing what physically laid ahead), I would have to rely on the information sign so I would choose Lane 1.

desaparecidos

I'm going to start beeping people out of it when I see them doing it any more.

It baffles me that some people think the manurer in the first post is proper.

Iwannahurl

biko wrote: »

What RSA thinks:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652

I'm afraid I do not understand that, and IMO the RSA's reference to "1.pm" and "5.pm" is just silly.

I have never encountered this method of negotiating a roundabout. My understanding is that lane position and signalling are determined by the exit you are taking. The third and subsequent exits require the inside lane and a right indicator until you are ready to exit.

My hunch is that the RSA's roundabout video is based on the simplest 'ideal' roundabout, and they are deliberately avoiding the complexities of large multi-lane roundabouts.

Iwannahurl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrfdQIg4ap0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPANKRHL9HU

dloob

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that fake or is that real... ? It's bloody hard to tell. Ah, it's not - but knowing Galway, I wouldn't be surprised if they copy it.

It's real it's the magic roundabout in Swindon,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29
I've driven through it, it's not as bad as it looks.

KevR

The City Council should just put down road markings on the approach to this roundabout and then there would be no need for a deabte on which lane is correct.

Passed through the Menlo Park roundabout this morning and a guy was pulled over by the Garda Traffic Corps just after the pedestrian lights (exit if you're heading up to the Tuam Rd roundabout). Didn't see what he did but the thought did cross my mind that the Garda saw him using the wrong lane on the roundabout..

I have heard of the Gardai pulling people for using the left lane to take the third exit on the Menlo Pk roundabout. I think they also used to pull people for the same thing at the old N6 roundabout in Oranmore.

kippy

BornToBe? wrote: »

No, it's not,

nothing worse than bad drivers giving out to people doing the right thing.
When traveling straight (I would consider that exist to be within the "straight ahead" parameters) stay in the Left lane, unless road markings say other wise.
and now before you have a hissy fit:

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

But, if you do feel strongly about this, continue to do what you do and when you crash or cause a crash, a nice judge will educate you and you'll have to pay for the privllage.

Thanks

Travelling "straight" - has nothing to do with it tbh.
There are 2 exits before the "straight" exit so you cannot and should not take the left lane to go out the 3rd exit.
ValerieR has it as close as you can get to the correct roundabout technique.
Its got nothing to do with "straight ahead", "left and right" exits. Its got to do with with the order of exits and if everyone stuck within those rules (which arent that fecking complicated, there'd be far fewer tips on roundabouts.
Also, and something a lot in this country dont seem to appreciated. You need to use mirrors AND indicators on roundabouts also - they are handy.

Iwannahurl

KevR wrote: »

The City Council should just put down road markings on the approach to this roundabout and then there would be no need for a deabte on which lane is correct.

Passed through the Menlo Park roundabout this morning and a guy was pulled over by the Garda Traffic Corps just after the pedestrian lights (exit if you're heading up to the Tuam Rd roundabout). Didn't see what he did but the thought did cross my mind that the Garda saw him using the wrong lane on the roundabout..

I have heard of the Gardai pulling people for using the left lane to take the third exit on the Menlo Pk roundabout. I think they also used to pull people for the same thing at the old N6 roundabout in Oranmore.

Road traffic legislation, the RoTR, driver training, the RSA and Public Service Announcements ought to be enough -- but clearly isn't.

AGS have indeed pulled and prosecuted motorists for "jumping the queue" on an Oranmore roundabout.

I am curious as to why AGS are so diligent about roundabout 'queue jumping' but are rarely (if ever) to be seen clamping down on other routine, erm, naughtiness such as, for example, abuse of pedestrian facilities by motorists.

kippy

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Road traffic legislation, the RoTR, driver training, the RSA and Public Service Announcements ought to be enough -- but clearly isn't.

AGS have indeed pulled and prosecuted motorists for "jumping the queue" on an Oranmore roundabout.

I am curious as to why AGS are so diligent about roundabout 'queue jumping' but are rarely (if ever) to be seen clamping down on other routine lawbreaking such as, for example, abuse of pedestrian facilities by motorists.

Well it is obvious from this post and indeed others that people aren't 100% clear on what they should be doing and NOW - after writing my post above and reading what has come back from the RSA, I too am VERY confused. My driving instructor taught me the exits "method" and I have found it works in almost all situations but looking at RSA documentation it seems to be incorrect!!
The MAIN issue I have seen that causes the problems are the fact that MOST if not ALL documentation on roundabouts assume a 4 exit, 9,12 and 3 clock exits with roads of equal importance which, as many have stated here, are rare.

dloob

The poll on the motoring forum is split 50/50.
The RSA do seem to favor the o'clock method.
Their driver fault marking scheme for the driving test was posted in the other thread, this is the bit on roundabouts.

Where an applicant intends to take any exit in the 6 o’clock to 12 o’clock position, subject to road
markings, the approach should normally be in the left-hand lane.
The approach should normally be in the right-hand lane for any exit after the 12 o’clock position, or a fault
may be recorded for ‘Position at Roundabouts’

It's page six of the pdf http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FDocuments%2FADI%2FDrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf&rct=j&q=rsa%20drving%20fault%20marking%20guidelines&ei=OaJGTcioMJ2AhAe6uIXLAQ&usg=AFQjCNFr3Jb896H4mLWtGdEtU5AXOtIplw&cad=rja
It certainly doesn't help that all their examples use their perfectly symetrical 4 exit roundabout, a few odd roundabout examples would help.

Iwannahurl

dloob wrote: »

The poll on the motoring forum is split 50/50.
The RSA do seem to favor the o'clock method.
Their driver fault marking scheme for the driving test was posted in the other thread, this is the bit on roundabouts.

It's page six of the pdf http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FDocuments%2FADI%2FDrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf&rct=j&q=rsa%20drving%20fault%20marking%20guidelines&ei=OaJGTcioMJ2AhAe6uIXLAQ&usg=AFQjCNFr3Jb896H4mLWtGdEtU5AXOtIplw&cad=rja
It certainly doesn't help that all their examples use their perfectly symetrical 4 exit roundabout, a few odd roundabout examples would help.

Thanks for that. I was not aware of the 'clock method'.

Perhaps roads engineers and urban "planners" design roundabouts in the same way they design cycle "facilities", ie with little regard for road traffic legislation and good driving practice.

TristanPeter

As an Approved Driving Instructor I would say that either lane is acceptable provided it is done with caution. Lane discipline is important of course but these things are not always black or white. Just always be conscious of bad drivers on the road and that many drivers switch lanes willy-nilly on all roundabouts. If I was using the inside lane (nearer to roundabout green area) I would come off in the right lane. If using the left lane I would come off in the left lane. Problems arise when drivers enter in the right lane and come off in the left lane thus switching lanes and possibly colliding. If drivers are in the correct (left) lane for going onto the Headford Road from the road by Dunnes Stores then there should be no problem.

Iwannahurl

TristanPeter wrote: »

As an Approved Driving Instructor I would say that either lane is acceptable provided it is done with caution. Lane discipline is important of course but these things are not always black or white. Just always be conscious of bad drivers on the road and that many drivers switch lanes willy-nilly on all roundabouts. If I was using the inside lane (nearer to roundabout green area) I would come off in the right lane. If using the left lane I would come off in the left lane. Problems arise when drivers enter in the right lane and come off in the left lane thus switching lanes and possibly colliding. If drivers are in the correct (left) lane for going onto the Headford Road from the road by Dunnes Stores then there should be no problem.

Oh dear. No wonder there is such confusion.

Applicants should normally follow their entry lane around the roundabout until they pass the exit before the one which they intend to take, where they should switch to the left-hand lane and proceed to their intended exit.

Applicants should normally exit in the left-hand lane if it is clear.

~RSA, Driving Fault Marking Guidelines

Does this kind of messing happen in the UK and in other European countries where roundabouts are common?

Iwannahurl

I wonder how the clock method would work here if you're on the 4-lane Sean Mulvoy road (R338) and wish to continue through the roundabout onto the 2-lane Moneenageisha Road (R338)?

There may be more and far better examples. IMO, the clock method is imprecise. It's relative, whereas the number of exits is absolute, no?

biko

I use the clock method pretty much everywhere where I can't see markings/ there aren't marking.
Only place this doesn't work is actually in OP's roundabout coming into it from Bothar na dTreabh and going straight, up past Menlo Hotel.
People in the right lane often intend to turn left into the dual Headford road "fast lane" so if you're in the left lane you're in their way.

Therefore I use the right lane there to go straight (also it's slightly after 12 o'clock so still working according to the clock system).