Illuminati Theories = Free Advertising

AhSureTisGrand

I'm sure we've all seen and heard plenty about musicians and entertainers who are part of the Illuminati and have plans to one day rule the world/kill the gingers/do lots of very naughty things. Now all these conspiracy theories generate a lot of publicity for those suspected Illuminati. And all publicity is good publicity right? Being involved in a popular conspiracy theory could be as good as millions of dollars worth of advertising. All for free with the work being done by someone else.

But what if it's deliberate?

What if the celebrities have already discovered the great advertising potential of conspiracy theories and put Illuminati symbols in their work to stir up a fuss? Take as an example the song HAM, from the as-yet unreleased collaboration between Jay-Z and Kanye West. The artwork for the single looks designed simply to provoke conspiracy theorists and potheads.

I'll say it is. And I'll say it's not the first time this has happened. That, my friends, is the real conspiracy

Torakx

I dont see it as black and white as that personally.
There are those(who you mentioned) who may use it as a cheap way to market themselves and then there are those in the same line of work who might actually believe in what they are doing.
And then those again who maybe dont realise what they are being asked to do.
Consider the ritual sacrifice and loss of virginity symbolism in Lady Gagas live shows a year or so ago.Some kind of awards iirc.
Since kids and teens are watching this stuff, do you think they would go so far as corrupting millions of young minds because it might make them popular?
Surely what makes singers and performers popular is their songs colourful shows and fireworks etc
Oh ye and because MTV says so.

So why the need to constantly follow a kabbalistic/satanic trend when they can do it normally and about many many other subjects?

I would argue that because the main artists are doing it for whatever reason the rest are now following along hanging onto their tails for popularity as it is becoming more and more popular.
This is as you say advertising working its way into the publics minds.
Remember most of their followers havent the slightest clue what any of this symbolism means.

Ive mentioned before if anyone is looking to release a new product to the age groups of around 15-25 that the one eye symbol with a hand blocking the other would possibly have a bit of an edge due to the popularity now of those symbols.

Shades of grey i say!

AhSureTisGrand

If I were to argue that Lady Gaga and co. were corrupting young people's minds I would say that it is be because they introduce kids to sex at a young age and distort their views on it. I have an inkling that the kiddies are not so perceptive to the ritual sacrifice stuff

Brown Bomber

I think your hypothesis of a crass marketing ploy exploiting the medium of the internet is undoubtedly true to an extent but it doesn¨t go the whole way to be explaining everything imo.

They could create the same internet buzz and chatter by sticking to fairly innocent and innocous Da Vinci Code type conspiracy theories and still achieve an equivalent amount of hype.

But they don't. They embrace some of the most lurid and depraved themes imaginable. Human sex-slavery, paedophilia, rape, demonixc poessesion, mind control, suicide, satanism etc.

Additionally, these same symbols themes are not exclusive to music they can be found in fashion, movies, architecture, art, corporate logos, advertising, tv programmes and so on. Not only that be they have been prominent in entertainment since before the dawn of the internet. Up until the last few years only a handful of occultists and freemasons and the like would have noticed the the themes and symbolism hidden in plain sight.

Another flaw in your theory is that the majority of Americans are religious and the vast majority of these are Christians, and not only in the bible-belt areas. The US market is the only real market they are concerned about.

This kind of crap pop music is primarily marketed towards the young as far as I can tell. They are taking a potentially career fatal risk by pushing anti-religous themes with the religious parents who provide the pocket money for for the kids who buy their concert tickets, CD's and merchandise. And for what...? So buy people can discuss it on the internet? Nah.

Monty Burnz

If you were a secret, shadowy, sinister organisation, why would you go around deliberately leaving clues for amateur sleuths to follow?

It fails the old logic test I'm afraid.

Brown Bomber

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If you were a secret, shadowy, sinister organisation, why would you go around deliberately leaving clues for amateur sleuths to follow?

It fails the old logic test I'm afraid.

No. It fails your logic test. Which is not the same thing.

Monty Burnz

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No. It fails your logic test. Which is not the same thing.

Well perhaps you would explain why it would be advantageous to a secret society to advertise itself? Doesn't that rather defeat the whole secrecy element?

AhSureTisGrand

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If you were a secret, shadowy, sinister organisation, why would you go around deliberately leaving clues for amateur sleuths to follow?

It fails the old logic test I'm afraid.

Because it doesn't exist?

Brown Bomber

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well perhaps you would explain why it would be advantageous to a secret society to advertise itself? Doesn't that rather defeat the whole secrecy element?

The symbols are another form of language essentially. They are a means of communicating between the initiates which excludes the profane.

I can't explain it in a single post - look it up yourself.

Monty Burnz

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The symbols are another form of language essentially. They are a means of communicating between the initiates which excludes the profane.

I can't explain it in a single post - look it up yourself.

So instead of -say - using a secure internet channel, or a phone, they work a picture of a pyramid or something into a Lady Gaga video?

Interesting theory. Not so good for communicating the detailed specifics of their massively complex conspiracies though.

WakeUp

The flipside of the OP is that many non main stream artists are also talking about the same sort of thing and it would appear it has nothing to do with selling records. These dudes are an underground hip hop group very few people know about them. This was released in 99'. Dont think they are dropping this to sell records its what they see.

robtri

WakeUp wrote: »

The flipside of the OP is that many non main stream artists are also talking about the same sort of thing and it would appear it has nothing to do with selling records. These dudes are an underground hip hop group very few people know about them. This was released in 99'. Dont think they are dropping this to sell records its what they see.

so why they use them then??

Sacksian

CEO's "Illuminata" song (no video) from his album "White Magic"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyjpmQAkDo8

Lots of symbolism in the video for his debut single "Come with Me"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C9A3zJUemY

Monty Burnz

The whole illuminati thing is widespread meme. It's in the DaVinci code, how many billion folks have read that? So it's hardly surprising to see it pop up in popular culture. As I said above, it would appear to be an odd way for 'Illuminati initiates' to communicate their complex conspiracies by having an eye or a pyramid in a pop video rather than by picking up the phone.

Actually, the eye and the pyramid thing reminds me of the start of Bladerunner - eyes are a big theme in that film and the HQ of the Tyrell corporation is a big pyramid/ziggarut.

WakeUp

robtri wrote: »

so why they use them then??

have no idea man its just what they are talking about I dont know there motives for doing it will look into though see if I can find anything out.

Monty Burnz

Would any illuminati fans please address the point I'm making?

robtri

WakeUp wrote: »

have no idea man its just what they are talking about I dont know there motives for doing it will look into though see if I can find anything out.

be curious to know myself...

like i cant believe its messages to other members.. . that doesnt make sense on any level to me..

i can see the cash in on advertising cash angle...

but neither satisfy

Torakx

One theory is,
They want us to worship these symbols which represent certain things to them.
To get us to worship these symbols they use popular role models as mediums.
As to why they wish us to worship those symbols and accept them into our lives along with themes of ritual sacrifice and so on im not sure.
But i do see the worship going on alot now and at the same time complete ignorance.
Maybe just another form of religion replacing the old school religions.
The big mainstream religions have had their day and possibly its time for the underground polar opposites to shine and break through.
I would say both are as bad as each other.
Possibly all of these have and will be to control masses of people and has been used since the egyptian or greek "times" to keep people ignorant and content at the same time.
While the kids are worhsipping Rhainna and the ole ones are worshipping God, "they" can go about their bussiness.

While the satanic/kabbalist side has a bad rep for embracing immoral acts i suppose we should at the same time give as much credit to the churches for their part in corrupting the world.

Monty Burnz

Torakx wrote: »

One theory is,
They want us to worship these symbols which represent certain things to them.
To get us to worship these symbols they use popular role models as mediums.

But I don't see how people are going to start worshipping symbols without any obvious ideology behind them. For example, Christians didn't start worshipping the cross, the started worshipping Jesus - the cross is just shorthand for him and his ideology. If the Christian cult just popped a load of crosses around the place when it started without explaining the meaning behind them, then folks would not have started to worship the cross per se, would they?

Yitzhak Rabin

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But I don't see how people are going to start worshipping symbols without any obvious ideology behind them. For example, Christians didn't start worshipping the cross, the started worshipping Jesus - the cross is just shorthand for him and his ideology. If the Christian cult just popped a load of crosses around the place when it started without explaining the meaning behind them, then folks would not have started to worship the cross per se, would they?

I don't think anyone is saying that they are communicating in the traditional sense, as in sending coded messages to one another.

Rather it could be a way of saying "We are here", so when a fellow illuminati person says, lets say, a government agency that has the all seeing eye and pyramid of illumination, they can see that it has been infiltrated.

It could be as simple as people getting kicks out of hiding their symbol in music videos. So lets say one of the producers of Lady Gaga is a member of the illuminati, sticking illuminati imagery into the videos might give them a few kicks?

I don't see how you could argue its a way of promoting the music though. In fairness fvck all people would take notice or pay any heed to it.

Monty Burnz

yekahs wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying that they are communicating in the traditional sense, as in sending coded messages to one another.

Rather it could be a way of saying "We are here", so when a fellow illuminati person says, lets say, a government agency that has the all seeing eye and pyramid of illumination, they can see that it has been infiltrated.

But why not just pick up the phone and tell your fellow Illuminati that you're working in the Federal Reserve or Lady Gaga's retinue or whatever? It can't be a very well organised all-powerful secret society if they have to resort to what amount to smoke signals in the mass media. Furthermore, if you infiltrate the American government to a level where you get pyramids and eyes on the currency, then you'd better be aware that it's going to be there for quite a while and you might not. You might be signalling an infilrtration that no longer stands. Anyway, the whole thing is a bit silly if you consider that if no direct communication is possible, you wouldn't be able to organise a coffee morning, never mind taking over the world.

yekahs wrote: »

It could be as simple as people getting kicks out of hiding their symbol in music videos. So lets say one of the producers of Lady Gaga is a member of the illuminati, sticking illuminati imagery into the videos might give them a few kicks?

That's more like it I reckon - but probably more along the lines of CT fans waving to each other. It happens in other areas of culture - writers slipping Smiths lyrics into their books that only fellow fans would recognise, that sort of thing.

yekahs wrote: »

I don't see how you could argue its a way of promoting the music though. In fairness fvck all people would take notice or pay any heed to it.

Yeah, just to be clear I'm not arguing that at all.

studiorat

yekahs wrote: »

I don't see how you could argue its a way of promoting the music though. In fairness fvck all people would take notice or pay any heed to it.

Why not? The illumanati and conspiracies in general are huge business and have a massive following among the very demographic the likes of Jay Z and Lady Gaga are aiming themselves at.

It used to be that all heavy metal bands were devil worshippers, and Ozzy was biting the head of bats and little girls. Now it's pop stars are all freemasons. Plus ca Change!!

Torakx

It would be handy to think they just rebranded Satan as molok/Bahumat
to go into the pop music industry but then again these pop stars arent exactly saying we love you molok etc.
They are using symbols and references that their fans dont understand.
If its not for the fans to outrightly understand(as in heavy metal ) then its for someone else.
That someone else isnt going to buy their music cd's because of the symbols i think.
That would be someone like me going out and listening to that kind of stuff which isnt going to happen especially when i understand alot of the symbols.

That brings me back to the hidden in plain sight theory and also worship of these symbols.
To Montyburnz i understand the point your making.
What im trying to explain is that you can worship something in ignorance.
The fans believe or maybe dont even realise they are worshipping these stars and their actions.
Alot of these stars seem to be representing freemasons,kaballists,satanic worship.So while the fans think they are paying homage to their fav artist at the same time they are also accepting these symbols and their philosophies into their lives(unconsciously) through the stories and symbols in the videos, songs and i would argue films aswell.

To me it looks like they are tryng to put those symbols out their into the publics minds to be taken in a positive lght.They happen to represent alot of philosophies too,so im guessing these philosophies are going to someday become the next religion.
Although since we are more and more becoming and made to become consumers maybe the new religion of the future isnt what we would think.
Maybe its music and the priests are the singers.
Infact isnt that what is happening right now? but obviously if they were priests it would be satanic lol

Like i said the polar opposite of the churches has its time to shine now.

DeBunny

Completely agree with the OP.

Jay Z is a very intelligent man and is renowned as an excellent marketer and business man. He's using very vocal conspiracy theorists too generate a lot of valuable free marketing. He does this by using violent and graphic images along with symbols to which people have attached meaning. If he used images and symbols which weren't controversial his marketing scheme simply wouldn't work.

A very popular book among business people and marketers is a book called 'The Tipping Point' by Malcolm Gladwell. It explains how ideas, fashions, etc spread like viruses without any driving intelligence or reason. Also popular among marketers is the chapter on memes in Richard Dawkins' 'The Selfish Gene'. Have a read of these if you really want to understand what Jay Z is doing by using these symbols. Marketers understand how ideas spread and they use this understanding to make money.

The Wilhelm Scream is a great example of a meme. This sound effect has been used in thousands of films as an in joke among film makers. It doesn't mean that all these people have conspired to use it or that there is any connection between these film makers other than the fact that they make films. The idea spread all on it's own.
The rick roll meme is another good example of a meme. Did all the people who played this trick conspire together? Where they trying to send a message to each other? No, the idea spread on it's own with out any reason. The same thing happens with symbols, languages and viruses.
The illuminati symbolism meme is particularly virulent because it exploits peoples fear and curiosity as it is associated with mysticism and a bit of good ol' sex and violence.

Jay Z and the like clearly understand how ideas spread. The conspiracy theory phenomenon has a massive audience and they are using vocal conspiracy theorists as vectors or hosts to spread their message/virus.
That's just my theory, but it is definitely far more likely and a lot simpler than the malicious, conspiratorial, world domination, illuminati messaging system theory.
I know if I was a budding rap artist I'd certainly jump on the illuminati symbolism band wagon/gravy train.

[edit] Also, any band or artist worth their salt know that image is all too important when it comes to making money in a floundering industry. Not only does the illuminati symbolism thing provide a ready made brand image, it also has the added bonus of selling itself via conspiracy theorists. It's sheer genius on the part of who ever thought of it.

[edit 2] Sure even if it was a malicious conspiracy, the devil doesn't exist. So what's the big woop?

DeBunny

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This kind of crap pop music is primarily marketed towards the young as far as I can tell. They are taking a potentially career fatal risk by pushing anti-religous themes with the religious parents who provide the pocket money for for the kids who buy their concert tickets, CD's and merchandise. And for what...? So buy people can discuss it on the internet? Nah.

Ever since Elvis, controversial music has been mass marketed at kids who want to rebel. No where is this more effective than in the oppressive environment of the bible belt. It's standard practice in the American music industry to become cool on the east and west coasts then make make your money in conservative middle America. Haven't you ever bought an album because it had the added value of pissing your parents off?

Torakx

I should point out what im talking about isnt Jay-Z type of stuff.
He blatantly raps about illuminatti quite alot almost like a broken record, much more than 2pac or biggysmalls would have to get a rise.
Im talking about the more subtle ways of doing it.The fans have no idea what it means and sometimes no idea its their at all floating in the background or flashed quickly.
Choosing Jay-z as an example is similar to picking Ozzy Osbourne with satanic references.He isnt trying to sell it(like other artists), just make some noise and sell his ass for money.
If you throw him more dollars he might stand on his head at the same time lol
But i guess fair play, he is making money off it and i always believe in that old maxim.Let he who wishes to be decieved, be decieved.

nullzero

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well perhaps you would explain why it would be advantageous to a secret society to advertise itself? Doesn't that rather defeat the whole secrecy element?

It's always important to know your stuff, and from what you're saying you don't seem to know very much yet you deem yourself qualified enough to have a go at people who I know do know their stuff.
Secret socities are not secret in as much as nobody knows about them.
They are socities with secrets, not all of those socities with secrets are hell bent on world domination.

I've researched a lot of this stuff over the years, some of it I can believe other parts I don't care for, but at least I've done my homework.

If you'd like to know more PM me and I'll be happy to help you to understand this stuff a little better, or at least give you the gist of it.

Monty Burnz

nullzero wrote: »

It's always important to know your stuff, and from what you're saying you don't seem to know very much yet you deem yourself qualified enough to have a go at people who I know do know their stuff.

Sorry - I'm just asking what seem to me to be common-sense questions. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but if a theory doesn't make sense then I think it's fair to point that out and hear how other people answer the questions.

nullzero

studiorat wrote: »

Why not? The illumanati and conspiracies in general are huge business and have a massive following among the very demographic the likes of Jay Z and Lady Gaga are aiming themselves at.

It used to be that all heavy metal bands were devil worshippers, and Ozzy was biting the head of bats and little girls. Now it's pop stars are all freemasons. Plus ca Change!!

Aren't the conspiracies about the music industry all based on the people who control the business side using the artists as pawns?

I don't very much think that Ozzy Osbourne was planning to infect the minds of a generation with weird symbolism.
In fact talking about Black Sabbath didn't they state that they were shocked by the imagery their record company used on their record sleeves?
Seemingly they never Ok'd a lot of it but I'm sure they were having too good a time to care at that stage anyway.

If you're stupid enough to believe that somebody as vacuous as Lady Gaga or Jay Z have the abiltity to control the worlds youth through their own cunning you deserve whatever it is you get.

nullzero

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Sorry - I'm just asking what seem to me to be common-sense questions. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but if a theory doesn't make sense then I think it's fair to point that out and hear how other people answer the questions.

Well you know what they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
All questions are welcome, the sense that you're somehow smarter than the people you're aiming them at when you clearly don't have any insight into the topics you're discussing doesn't reflect badly on anyone but yourself, it's fine by me if thats how you want to carry on.

nullzero

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The whole illuminati thing is widespread meme. It's in the DaVinci code, how many billion folks have read that? So it's hardly surprising to see it pop up in popular culture. As I said above, it would appear to be an odd way for 'Illuminati initiates' to communicate their complex conspiracies by having an eye or a pyramid in a pop video rather than by picking up the phone.

Actually, the eye and the pyramid thing reminds me of the start of Bladerunner - eyes are a big theme in that film and the HQ of the Tyrell corporation is a big pyramid/ziggarut.

That symbolism is a lot older than Blade Runner.
I'm going though this thread and I relaly do thin that you should at least pop over to Youtube and pick up some basics on this stuff, you know as ammunition for your arguments here.

Monty Burnz

nullzero wrote: »

That symbolism is a lot older than Blade Runner.
I'm going though this thread and I relaly do thin that you should at least pop over to Youtube and pick up some basics on this stuff, you know as ammunition for your arguments here.

To be honest, I don't want to spend too much time becoming an authority on who claims what about whom - I'd have to learn both sides of the story the whole way rather than swallowing one narrative. With that in mind, I'll just stick to asking common-sense questions here and weighing the evidence that is presented.

By the way, I know that imagery dates back to before 1982
It's just that that example was in my mind because of another thread on Bladerunner.

DeBunny

Hi Nullzero. I appreciate you have done a lot of "research" on Illuminati symbolism so instead of complaining about how stupid other people are, would you care to impart some of this knowledge?

When it comes to Black Sabbath, that's just another example of clever record company bosses using graphic images to sell stuff. Nothing unusual.

As for Jay Z and Lady Gaga being vacuous and unintelligent? Really? They are cynical business people who know exactly how the music industry works, they know how people work and they know exactly how to exploit the fears and gullibilities of their target market.

nullzero

DeBunny wrote: »

Hi Nullzero. I appreciate you have done a lot of "research" on Illuminati symbolism so instead of complaining about how stupid other people are, would you care to impart some of this knowledge?

When it comes to Black Sabbath, that's just another example of clever record company bosses using graphic images to sell stuff. Nothing unusual.

As for Jay Z and Lady Gaga being vacuous and unintelligent? Really? They are cynical business people who know exactly how the music industry works, they know how people work and they know exactly how to exploit the fears and gullibilities of their target market.

I never said Monty was stupid I pointed out that he could improve his knowledge on these subjects, it couldn't hurt could it?

Please dont attempt to mis represent me again.

Those "artists" you mentioned aren't as clever as you think they are.
Like the majority of musical acts, they take their orders from their bosses, this isn't a wack CT, it's pretty obvious to even the most hard nosed sceptic.
I've discussed these topics at length before, and the subject of symbolism.
If you look back through the forum you'll find a lot of what you're asking for.

All the best.

The Recliner

nullzero wrote: »

If you're stupid enough to believe that somebody as vacuous as Lady Gaga or Jay Z have the abiltity to control the worlds youth through their own cunning you deserve whatever it is you get.

You have just called a bunch of people in this thread stupid

Given that you have just commented in the feedback thread about the hostility in this forum I would hope that you would recognise when you are contributing to that yourself and dial it back a little

nullzero

Monty Burnz wrote: »

To be honest, I don't want to spend too much time becoming an authority on who claims what about whom - I'd have to learn both sides of the story the whole way rather than swallowing one narrative. With that in mind, I'll just stick to asking common-sense questions here and weighing the evidence that is presented.

By the way, I know that imagery dates back to before 1982
It's just that that example was in my mind because of another thread on Bladerunner.

You're free to do as you please, but you're going to be getting a lot of things wrong on this forum without knowing the basics of the topics discussed here.

Surely getting knowing your enemy is a worthy way to spend your time when you're already pointing out the woes of the CT crowd, although you're currently not doing as good a job as you could if you'd take the time to learn a few things first.

Surely your lack of underatnding of these topics reflects as badly on you as any relectance from CT people to examine things as soke sceptics invite them to.
Your common sense and somebody elses may well be very differnt things indeed.

nullzero

The Recliner wrote: »

You have just called a bunch of people in this thread stupid

Given that you have just commented in the feedback thread about the hostility in this forum I would hope that you would recognise when you are contributing to that yourself and dial it back a little

Hang on a minute, I never meant that as an insult.
In fact I believe that everybody here is smart enough to know how the music industry works.

In retrospect I can see how it may have looked to some people but it wasn't my intent at all.

My point was that people outside the confines of this forum who haven't thought this topic through may be stupid enough to believe that Jay Z is running the world.

I can only imagine your glee in infracting me for that comment.
It would be nice if you took the context in which it was written into account and rescind the infraction.

I think it's important that to point out that I wasn't saying anybody on this forum is stupid and that my comment was taken way out of context so I could be made an example of.

kryogen

You need to look at who "handles" the artists and who controls their career path to get more then the artist themselves tbh, they are surrounded by managers/pr experts/record execs etc... who all have a big say in their image and direction, the stars themselves are merely the faces imo

DeBunny

If I see any posts that make me think that Jay Z, etc might be devil worshiping, global enslavement obsessed illuminati, rather than just clever business men using controversial symbolism as way to make to money I'll be sure to respond.

nullzero

DeBunny wrote: »

If I see any posts that make me think that Jay Z, etc might be devil worshiping, global enslavement obsessed illuminati, rather than just clever business men using controversial symbolism as way to make to money I'll be sure to respond.

I don't think Jay Z is that clever, although it's plausible that the people who operate above him may be.

WakeUp

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If you were a secret, shadowy, sinister organisation, why would you go around deliberately leaving clues for amateur sleuths to follow?

It fails the old logic test I'm afraid.

That would be a matter of opinion really it might fail your logic test, but lets apply a different logic to it than the one you have in mind.

My understanding of symbolism in the music industry, hollyhood or wherever has nothing to do with communicating a "secret" message per se as you have alluded to in a previous post.

People who claim to be ex-members of the illuminati say that the reason they put the symbolism in plain sight is so as that current members are aware who is in control and that they are being watched. The trained eye can spot the symbolism its not hard its everywhere, people who have no knowledge of the subject dont see anything. People who wouldnt know anything about the subject might do a bit of research, then enter the minefield of discussion probably lose interest in it because its so confusing and come to the conclusion the conspiracy theorists are "nuts" or whatever. People have been condtioned in my opinion to believe anything like this is possible to be off the wall. After all its not like the people in control would ever lie to the minnions or dont have our best interests at heart. The government/overlords love us really. Evil things never happen.

I found this video on youtube Im posting it so people can have a look at it and make up their own minds. The symbolism is all over the music industry and it would appear its all over hollyhood too. So if its not conincidence why put it there? considering the vast majority of the population have only heard about the illuminati in a fleeting way and would know very little about its alleged purpose/activities or history. So why is it everywhere?

The Recliner

nullzero wrote: »

I can only imagine your glee in infracting me for that comment.
It would be nice if you took the context in which it was written into account and rescind the infraction.

I think it's important that to point out that I wasn't saying anybody on this forum is stupid and that my comment was taken way out of context so I could be made an example of.

Just to clarify to everybody though it shouldn't be needed that you don't argue moderation on thread as it takes them off topic, PM the Mods if you want to discuss moderation (which Nullzero did but still felt the need to take issue here)

As for taking glee at handing out an infraction or making an example of you I have no idea where that comes from, I have had very little interaction with you on this forum and no reason whatsoever to have a vendetta against you

I was merely enforcing the charter based on the content of your post the same as I do with everyone and the infraction has been upheld by a CMod

Monty Burnz

WakeUp wrote: »

That would be a matter of opinion really it might fail your logic test, but lets apply a different logic to it than the one you have in mind.

My understanding of symbolism in the music industry, hollyhood or wherever has nothing to do with communicating a "secret" message per se as you have alluded to in a previous post.

People who claim to be ex-members of the illuminati say that the reason they put the symbolism in plain sight is so as that current members are aware who is in control and that they are being watched.

But this comes down to communication again - why not just tell people they are being watched? Send them an email, or give them a buzz. If the people are fomer Illuminati, surely they would know the awsome scope of Illuminati power?

In fact, why bother telling them at all? When they are leaving the Illuminati, you could just tell them not to get up to anything and that they would be watched. Getting Lady Gaga to wiggle around a pyramid with one eye covered seems to be an unnecessary complication to me.

Regarding the ubiquity of certain images and symbols, that is genuienly a good question in my view. But to properly study it, you would need to look at all of the memes that are common use - everything from Hello Kitty, Lolcats, the hammer and sickle, the Simpsons, classical architecture, Celtic patterns to pyramids and masonic symbols. You could then properly investigate how often the Illuminati stuff pops up and is it really so prevalent, or only prevalent because you are actually looking out for it.

Any study where you look at where something that is ascribed to the Illuminati crops up is rather undermined if you don't allow for all the times that they don't come up - the world we live in is a sea of symbols and referentiality.

Edit: I've watched the video as far as the Simspons and I think I can explain a few of the references. Through a Scanner Darkly is a film about surveillance. It would be quite odd if there was no 'eye' symbolism in it. Also PKD was a mentally ill paranoid, so he had plenty of conspiracy theories himself. The Simspsons episode is about the 'Stonecutters' - satire on (would you believe it) the Masons. No real shock to see Mason symbols in there. The 300 one was a bit odd: you could stick a pyramid with an eye in front of any actor in a film on a staircase - I think that one is pretty weak. The 9/11 stuff is a bit freaky alright, but there must be tens of thousands of films for example where you see a watch or a clock that could be at 9:11 or 5 minutes to nine on an analogue watch. Similarly with Terminator - there are probably a lot films with bridges in the background with a height, I'd almost be surprised if that isn't the only 9/11 out there. That doesn't mean that I don't find it freaky too, but that's the power of coincidence. You also have to factor in that directors will deliberately reference these things for fun (like the Wilhelm scream) or to add a layer of meaning to something (e.g. to suggest that the character is involved or interested in CTs) or because the eye/pyramid thing is one of the most recognisable symbols in America (as it's on everybody's money).

studiorat

nullzero wrote: »

If you're stupid enough to believe that somebody as vacuous as Lady Gaga or Jay Z have the abiltity to control the worlds youth through their own cunning you deserve whatever it is you get.

I think you misunderstand. Allow me to simplify it for you. Nobody is suggesting Jay Z is running anything or in control of anyone. What is being suggested is that the kids who are into Jay Z etc. are also into the illumaniti thing, so they get all the references and the like.

Neither IMO are in control of the world. :rolleyes:

DeBunny

WakeUp wrote: »

That would be a matter of opinion really it might fail your logic test, but lets apply a different logic to it than the one you have in mind.

There's no such thing as "your logic" or "a different logic". That's the good thing about logic.
Saying "lets apply a different logic" is like saying lets apply a different maths. There isn't one.

Btw, the part in the video that says "truth is simple; mankind makes it COMPLICATED" was very ironic. The illuminati symbolism CT is overly complicated (not be confused with 'hard to understand') for it to be credible.
It followed that with "Nothing is truth until you realise it". So is the world only round if I realise it? That way of reasoning makes it all too easy to believe in any thing you want.
There was nothing in the video that didn't make me think it's just some harmless memes.
I could make a similar video saying that every one who high fives is conspiring to take over the world and it would be just as valid as the points made in video.
It's like playing connect the dots without numbers and coming up with the picture you want.

Any way, even if there is a malicious conspiracy to enslave and generally make life uncomfortable for man kind, they're doing a crap job. Dontcha' think? Since the dawn of civilization, the quality of life for mankind around the globe has done nothing but improve. Lifespan, Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to make money, (the list goes on) are all on the increase with only the odd war or epidemic putting a dip in the trend. Even they're on the decrease.
If "they" already control the world I say leave them at it. They seem like a nice buncha lads. :pac:

WakeUp

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But this comes down to communication again - why not just tell people they are being watched? Send them an email, or give them a buzz. If the people are fomer Illuminati, surely they would know the awsome scope of Illuminati power?

In fact, why bother telling them at all? When they are leaving the Illuminati, you could just tell them not to get up to anything and that they would be watched. Getting Lady Gaga to wiggle around a pyramid with one eye covered seems to be an unnecessary complication to me.

I don’t pretend to know why these symbols are everywhere all I can do is speculate like the next man and try find out about them best I can. Maybe it’s a power thing the more symbols the better, but I do remember reading an article by a woman who said she was born into one of these illuminati families and she went on to describe what life was like for her growing up. I cant find the article I didn’t bookmark it and I cant remember her name but I remember her story not something you would forget in a hurry it was disturbing. Anyways to cut a long story short she said the symbols are reminders incase anyone decides to go public and talk about their experiences. All seeing eye we are watching and all that, people within the illuminati some of them want out but they are too terrified to leave or seek help. The likes of Lady gaga , the music industry, hollyhood are just being used like everyone else in my opinion.

Regarding the ubiquity of certain images and symbols, that is genuienly a good question in my view. But to properly study it, you would need to look at all of the memes that are common use - everything from Hello Kitty, Lolcats, the hammer and sickle, the Simpsons, classical architecture, Celtic patterns to pyramids and masonic symbols. You could then properly investigate how often the Illuminati stuff pops up and is it really so prevalent, or only prevalent because you are actually looking out for it.
Any study where you look at where something that is ascribed to the Illuminati crops up is rather undermined if you don't allow for all the times that they don't come up - the world we live in is a sea of symbols and referentiality.

They are fair comments maybe we could look into and try come up with some sort of answer. I would say that the pyramid and eye do seem to come up quite a bit and it is a known symbol of the illuminati, the Bavarian illuminati that is (1740’s onwards) secret societies have existed for thousands of years in some shape or form going way back to ancient China. For the sake of discussion I would just say that when people refer to the illuminati they are talking about the Bavarain illuminati. Incidentally the British Queens family and line hail from Bavaria, Saxe-Coburg & Gotha thought I would throw that in there seen as though they are just across the pond and are alleged to be prominent illuminati members:)

Edit: I've watched the video as far as the Simspons and I think I can explain a few of the references. Through a Scanner Darkly is a film about surveillance. It would be quite odd if there was no 'eye' symbolism in it. Also PKD was a mentally ill paranoid, so he had plenty of conspiracy theories himself. The Simspsons episode is about the 'Stonecutters' - satire on (would you believe it) the Masons. No real shock to see Mason symbols in there. The 300 one was a bit odd: you could stick a pyramid with an eye in front of any actor in a film on a staircase - I think that one is pretty weak. The 9/11 stuff is a bit freaky alright, but there must be tens of thousands of films for example where you see a watch or a clock that could be at 9:11 or 5 minutes to nine on an analogue watch. Similarly with Terminator - there are probably a lot films with bridges in the background with a height, I'd almost be surprised if that isn't the only 9/11 out there. That doesn't mean that I don't find it freaky too, but that's the power of coincidence. You also have to factor in that directors will deliberately reference these things for fun (like the Wilhelm scream) or to add a layer of meaning to something (e.g. to suggest that the character is involved or interested in CTs) or because the eye/pyramid thing is one of the most recognisable symbols in America (as it's on everybody's money).

If you were to take each lets say “frame” and look at one a day then there wouldn’t appear to be much going on with them. When you put them all together though I think it paints a different picture. Again it’s the eye and the pyramid always the eye and the pyramid and Im guessing the majority of the films shown were made in hollyhood studios but I have to check that out im sure some of them were not. The 9/11 is different I think and open to a lot more speculation. The point you made about the clock showing 9/11 is relevant because at least twice a day the hands of the clock will be in that position no matter what so theres a chance albeit small that the shot just happened to be taken at that particular time I don’t know what the odds of that happening are but im thinking they are remote. Im going to try find out about the bridge heights in the US, first of all find out where that Terminator 2 shot was taken and see if I can match up the height requirement should be fun doing that. The 9/11 stuff isn’t clear cut at all but it is a lil freaky I have to admit.

WakeUp

DeBunny wrote: »

There's no such thing as "your logic" or "a different logic". That's the good thing about logic.
Saying "lets apply a different logic" is like saying lets apply a different maths. There isn't one.

I understand were youre were coming from but Im not so sure about that:) You have a situation with many possible outcomes and ways to approach it. Dude a has an idea and dude b has an idea. Two different ways of dealing with/ reading the situation. Two different lines of thought..Two different forms of “logic”.??

Btw, the part in the video that says "truth is simple; mankind makes it COMPLICATED" was very ironic. The illuminati symbolism CT is overly complicated (not be confused with 'hard to understand') for it to be credible.
It followed that with "Nothing is truth until you realise it". So is the world only round if I realise it? That way of reasoning makes it all too easy to believe in any thing you want.
There was nothing in the video that didn't make me think it's just some harmless memes.
I could make a similar video saying that every one who high fives is conspiring to take over the world and it would be just as valid as the points made in video.
It's like playing connect the dots without numbers and coming up with the picture you want.

I didn’t link the video to focus on what he wrote that would be last thing registering for me to be honest. It was more to focus on the symbolism. We could talk for hours here about the meanings or interpretations of what he was saying Im not going to argue with you over them at all your analogy about the world being round is right but yeah lets not get into that I just posted the video so people could check out the symbolism for themselves:)

Any way, even if there is a malicious conspiracy to enslave and generally make life uncomfortable for man kind, they're doing a crap job. Dontcha' think? Since the dawn of civilization, the quality of life for mankind around the globe has done nothing but improve. Lifespan, Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to make money, (the list goes on) are all on the increase with only the odd war or epidemic putting a dip in the trend. Even they're on the decrease.
If "they" already control the world I say leave them at it. They seem like a nice buncha lads. :pac:

That’s not accurate at all in fairness and a little shallow if im honest about it not having a dig just saying….go ask the people in the third world what they think of life in general or the countless innocent people who suffer at the hands of evil leaders, illegal wars and down right cruelty. Yes “life” has improved in certain ways but not for everyone not by a long shot people die everyday from lack of food and basic medicine and we are supposed to be a “civilized” species. Mankind has been at war forever. Epidemics constantly wipe people out. Things don’t look like changing anytime soon either.

DeBunny

Sorry W.U, I don't see how different lines of thought can be the same as different types of logic. Especially when it comes to our differing view points. Perhaps you could explain it a bit further?

As for the video, I'm glad you agree with my analogy. I watched the entire video all the way to JFK's speech about the communists and would have found it very hard to take seriously without the text comments I mentioned. All the video is saying is that these people are using similar symbols to each other. So what?

All this theory boils down to is people using the same symbols. Should we label any one who uses Cyrillic as a communist or even Russian? Obviously not. The same applies to illuminati symbols.


I'm not being shallow or inaccurate in the least. It's all too easy to be a pessimist but the facts don't allow it. Ask this guy. Hans Rosling gives a great talk depicting how, if you look at the statistics and not just Trocaire adverts, life in the third is getting better and, apart from the odd dip in the trends, it always has been.

Life is crap if you only look at the crap. If you compare it to how bad things used to be you get a clearer more accurate picture. I never said life is good for people in third world countries, just that it is getting better. I'm puzzled as to why you would think that that's inaccurate, let alone shallow.

So . . just to keep things on track I'm going to repeat this point.
All this theory boils down to is people using the same symbols. Should we label any one who uses Cyrillic as a communist or even Russian? Obviously not. The same applies to illuminati symbols.

WakeUp

Ok Bunny id rather not go all dictionary on you but because you have asked me to go into more detail I kinda have too, to back up my point I’m not trying to be a smart arse. There are a number of definitions of the word “logic” one of them being; “a particular method of reasoning or argumentation” its possible for people to reason in their own way or use separate logic to the person or situation they are discussing/talking about.

Like I said in my last post I didn’t put the video up for what he was saying it was for the images, the thread is about illuminati free advertising that is why I posted it to be honest I couldn’t care less what he had to say or his comments if you are familiar with the subject that being the “illuminati” the pyramid & eye are symbols associated with them and the video I posted highlights them in the movie industry.

Maybe shallow was a bit unfair of me this is probably not the thread to go into detail about world poverty levels but I’ll reply to your comments. Yes it’s a good presentation but to state that the facts don’t allow questioning of your comments or Roslings presentation is way off the mark. To be honest I can produce “data” too. If you want to talk more about this you can PM me but lets not take the thread of course.:)

Youre right the theory boils down to illuminati symbols being used in the music industry and hollyhood communism and Russians don’t really come into it. I would disagree with you saying the same applies to illuminati symbols because it doesn’t in my opinion. Communism is a well known ideology and communist symbolism known too. The illuminati is an alleged secret society and their symbolism ( pyramid & eye ) not so well known. So all this alleged secret society symbolism in the music industry and hollyhood to me is fair game for questioning and discussion I cant really see how youre missing the point of the thread and attempting to make analogies that aren’t there too make.

DeBunny

Well thanks for "going all dictionary on me". Did you read the link you posted?
The following is from the cultural definition of logic as we're not dealing with the science or computing definition. Is fair ti say that we're dealing with the cultural definition of logic?

Logic
The branch of philosophy dealing with the principles of reasoning. Classical logic, as taught in ancient Greece and Rome, systematized rules for deduction. The modern scientific and philosophical logic of deduction has become closely allied to mathematics, especially in showing how the foundations of mathematics lie in logic.

Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

Could you post a video that shows that the people are conspiring in some way rather than just following a meme? I still haven't seen a convincing argument to even suggest there's a conspiracy.

The "data" you produced is for one year. Like I said, life is tough for people in the third world but it is getting better when you compare it to past years. A graph at the end of the page you linked shows a steady decline in poverty levels over the last two decades. The fact that you don't read your own links properly would explain why you're failing to understand my points. If "they" rule the world then they're doing a pretty good job all considered.

Have you read the OP of this thread? I agree completely with it! How on earth am I missing the point of it? And of course it's fair game for discussion. That's what we're doing.

I wasn't talking about communist or Russian symbolics I was talking about Cyrillic.
As far as I can see the use of illuminati symbolism is a meme, which is why I was comparing it to memes such as the use of Cyrillic and the Wilhelm scream. Non of which require a conspiracy.
Can you explain why the use of illuminati symbolism is a conspiracy and not a meme?

WakeUp

DeBunny wrote: »

Well thanks for "going all dictionary on me". Did you read the link you posted?
The following is from the cultural definition of logic as we're not dealing with the science or computing definition. Is fair ti say that we're dealing with the cultural definition of logic?
Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

As far as Im concerned you are going way over the top with this you just wont let it go for reasons only known to you, your and my understanding of the term logic and how it may be used or applied differ. Lets just agree to disagree, and no thats not what I was looking for Ive explained to you twice my reasons for using the term in the first place.

DeBunny wrote: »

Could you post a video that shows that the people are conspiring in some way rather than just following a meme? I still haven't seen a convincing argument to even suggest there's a conspiracy.

No. As I allluded too in a previous post it is speculation on my part. Could you post a video to 100% prove there isnt a conspiracy going on? Course you cant.

DeBunny wrote: »

The "data" you produced is for one year. Like I said, life is tough for people in the third world but it is getting better when you compare it to past years. A graph at the end of the page you linked shows a steady decline in poverty levels over the last two decades. The fact that you don't read your own links properly would explain why you're failing to understand my points. If "they" rule the world then they're doing a pretty good job all considered.

I understand the points you are making clearly but there is still a massive disparity in wealth and quality of life throughout the world that hasnt changed and as far as Im concerned it shouldnt exist in the first place. Also, the presentation you linked and findings by Rosling are open to conjecture as alluded to by posters in the comments section under the video. Nothing is black and white.

DeBunny wrote: »

Have you read the OP of this thread? I agree completely with it! How on earth am I missing the point of it? And of course it's fair game for discussion. That's what we're doing.

Maybe I took you up wrong on that I thought you might have been dismissing the whole notion of anything being afoot if thats not the case then fair enough point taken.

DeBunny wrote: »

I wasn't talking about communist or Russian symbolics I was talking about Cyrillic.
As far as I can see the use of illuminati symbolism is a meme, which is why I was comparing it to memes such as the use of Cyrillic and the Wilhelm scream. Non of which require a conspiracy.
Can you explain why the use of illuminati symbolism is a conspiracy and not a meme?

Ok if thats what you think then show me your reasoning for believing its a meme why do you think thats the case?