The "efficiency" of the swine flu vaccine

whiteonion · 15-01-2011 6:48pm #1

A woman died from swine flu AFTER getting the jab.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1347171/Swine-flu-Merseyside-Grandmother-Eleanor-Carruthers-dies-AFTER-jab.html

What's the point in taking the vaccine if people fall ill any way?

MagicMarker · 15-01-2011 6:50pm

Jesus that's a dodgy picture they're using!

stupidusername · 15-01-2011 6:53pm

Do you mean the 'efficacy'?

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 6:54pm

I took the jab. In fact it was almost forced onto us by the college.
Nothing happened...

GLaDOS · 15-01-2011 6:55pm

Meh Daily Mail, probably all a lie.

Also

Mrs Carruthers was seriously ill with emphysema and lung cancer

Like most Swine flu deaths, underlying illnesses are the main problem. Her immune system was undoubtedly under a lot of stress, making it possible for the virus to overcome the weakened secondary response as a result of the vaccine.

whiteonion · 15-01-2011 6:56pm

stupidusername wrote: »

Do you mean the 'efficacy'?

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

Badgermonkey · 15-01-2011 6:56pm

Let's not hear 'it can give you the flu'.

It cannot.

Dinner · 15-01-2011 6:57pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

No, I'm fairly sure 'efficacy' is the word you're looking for.

And go you for ignoring hundreds of years of medical advancement! Your parents must be so proud! :pac:

EDIT:

From the article

The NHS says the seasonal flu vaccine gives 70 to 80 per cent protection from flu.

But hey! Lets focus on how awful the vaccine is because it lets people die and ignore everyone else who has been protected from flu.

GLaDOS · 15-01-2011 6:59pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

It's one case. Show me where 100s of people are getting swine flu post jab in differing states of health and you'll have a point.

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

Best of luck with that. If a mass vaccination for a very serious illness is evernecessary, not getting vaccinated is one of the worst things you could do in terms of endangering other people.

strobe · 15-01-2011 7:01pm

It's all just a big scam dreamt up by the cruel and evil pharmaceutical industry to get peoples money. Coke and Pepsi are the same thing people. Wooop wooop wooop!

whiteonion · 15-01-2011 7:09pm

Dinner wrote: »

No, I'm fairly sure 'efficacy' is the word you're looking for.

And go you for ignoring hundreds of years of medical advancement! Your parents must be so proud! :pac:

EDIT:

From the article

But hey! Lets focus on how awful the vaccine is because it lets people die and ignore everyone else who has been protected from flu.

The amount of fraud that the pharmaceutical industry does is mindblowing. I would not trust them and their drugs and vaccines. I protect myself from getting ill by eatings lots of vitamin D supplements and healthy food.

Sarky · 15-01-2011 7:10pm

whiteonion wrote: »

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

So you just took all those childhood diseases on the chin with no permanent damage? I suppose you step on rusty nails all the time, just DARING tetanus to send you into agonising muscle-spasms?

To be perfectly frank, ROFL.

15-01-2011 7:10pm

I hate RTÉ's coverage of swine flu; barely ever do they mention that the people that died had underlying medical conditions! Reporting like that will surely cause a bit of a panic amongst people.

Cheap Thrills! · 15-01-2011 7:11pm

whiteonion wrote: »

The amount of fraud that the pharmaceutical industry does is mindblowing. I would not trust them and their drugs and vaccines. I protect myself from getting ill by eatings lots of vitamin D supplements and healthy food.

:rolleyes: No. You're just lucky.

MagicMarker · 15-01-2011 7:13pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

Ah, you're one of those people.

Clearly the vaccine doesn't work properly, you should get on to the pharmaceutical companies ASAP! :rolleyes:

Badgermonkey · 15-01-2011 7:13pm

whiteonion wrote: »

The amount of fraud that the pharmaceutical industry does is mindblowing. I would not trust them and their drugs and vaccines. I protect myself from getting ill by eatings lots of vitamin D supplements and healthy food.

Eating well is very sensible, there may come a time when Glaxosmithkline, Astra Zeneca or Eli Lily are fighting in your corner though, so best not discount it entirely.

whiteonion · 15-01-2011 7:19pm

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

:rolleyes: No. You're just lucky.

No I'm not just "lucky"
http://www.aolhealth.com/2011/01/10/vitamin-d-swine-flu/
Vitamin D seems to offer good protection against the flu.

Dinner · 15-01-2011 7:23pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No I'm not just "lucky"
http://www.aolhealth.com/2011/01/10/vitamin-d-swine-flu/
Vitamin D seems to offer good protection against the flu.

Ha! sure...

Does vit D also ward off TB and Smallpox? Since if, god forbid, one of those ever made a strong comeback I assume you wouldn't be getting the vaccine then either?

I guess we are just lucky that Smallpox has been eradicated and TB not far behind it so you probably wont have to make that decision. If only we knew what caused these diseases to practically disappear. I think it begins with a V...

15-01-2011 7:24pm

Love to see you handle smallpox with vit d

edit: lol dinner, snap

GLaDOS · 15-01-2011 7:27pm

Dinner wrote: »

TB not far behind it

Anti biotic resistant TB is a growing problem, it's far from eliminated, especially in poorer countries.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs104/en/

strobe · 15-01-2011 7:28pm

'Swine flu vaccination' is an anagram of 'It is awful connivance'.

Coincidence?

Fight the power.

Wibbs · 15-01-2011 7:28pm

Yea the little fact of her having emphysema and lung cancer may have had some effect on the poor woman. I mean emphysema ****s you up and very few people survive lung cancer for long. TBH I'd rather go out in a feverish haze than from either of those bastard diseases.

Having had the actual swine flu - I call it vaccination by installments - I can tell you it's a right bastard of a dose and Ive had some woeful flus in my time. And no that sniffle that had you in bed for a day was not the flu. The flu is a very different kettle of fish to a nasty head cold. TBH I'd have gone for the vaccine if I'd have known it was that bloody awful. And the only vaccine I ever had was for polio. I'd bet in my life I've had less pharma in me than even whiteonion and Ive probably got 20 years on him

. But yea if you've not had the vaccine for this one I'd get it. Fcuked me right up for a solid 10 days and I'd normally shift off the worst of a flu in half that time

Ah well it turns out that if you get through swine flu it gives you more than normal protection against other strains of flu, so quids in. Like I say vaccination by installments. Free too. Christ, I've just realised.... I'm actually that cheap. I'd rather catch the dose than pay for the vaccine. :eek:

RichieC · 15-01-2011 7:29pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

Lucky for you most people do.

ballsymchugh · 15-01-2011 7:30pm

strobe wrote: »

It's all just a big scam dreamt up by the cruel and evil pharmaceutical industry to get peoples money. Coke and Pepsi are the same thing people. Wooop wooop wooop!

no no no, you've got it completely wrong. it's the government and the royal family that are using the vaccine to inject the lot of us with a microchip so they can keep an eye on us!

Dave! · 15-01-2011 7:35pm

Nobody said that the vaccine is 100% effective OP. No vaccine is, and I don't imagine any medical intervention at all is. But it's very effective for most people at preventing the flu, and for those that do contract it, their symptoms are usually less severe than those who don't receive the vaccine.

The patient in the news article had emphysema and lung cancer, even if her symptoms were milder than usual she's still a high-risk case unfortunately.

Incidentally OP, with many/most vaccines, it's usually the case that you are less likely to contract the illness as an unvaccinated person surrounded by vaccinated people, than as a vaccinated person in an area of low vaccine uptake. This is called herd immunity, and it's the reason why it's a good idea to get vaccinated anyway: to protect those who cannot get the vaccine, and those who are at risk because they are immunocompromised, etc.

Pace2008 · 15-01-2011 7:54pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

Let's if if you refuse antibiotics and painkillers and stick with the calciferol if you're slowly dying from a deep infection.

It's easy to knock conventional evidence-based medicine till you get seriously ****ed up. And no raw, high-vitamin diet can guarantee this won't happen.

fontanalis · 15-01-2011 7:59pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOevcwiLIo

kowloon · 15-01-2011 8:02pm

whiteonion wrote: »

The amount of fraud that the pharmaceutical industry does is mindblowing. I would not trust them and their drugs and vaccines. I protect myself from getting ill by eatings lots of vitamin D supplements and healthy food.

Vitamin supplements are a fraud, healthy people don't need them. You get all the vitamins you need from a healthy diet, all the excess goes into the sewers unused. At least this is what I'm told by someone who knows a guy.

Antibiotics, on the other hand, these I've seen do something.
I'm also on drugs for neuropathic pain without which I wouldn't be able to get down the stairs in the morning.

I used to be someone who refused antibiotics, painkillers etc.
My health turning to $hit converted me quite quickly.

goat2 · 15-01-2011 8:05pm

my understanding was, if we take the vaccine or jab against the swine flu, we would not get swine flu, can people explain how the person who got the jab die of swine flu, i am not well up on these things, i did not and i was not offered the jab

Cheap Thrills! · 15-01-2011 8:09pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No I'm not just "lucky"
http://www.aolhealth.com/2011/01/10/vitamin-d-swine-flu/
Vitamin D seems to offer good protection against the flu.

Yes, you are just lucky. Vitamin D may/may not protect against swine flu but it certainly doesn't guarantee you won't get it.

Anyway, I was responding to your original comment below. Don't think for a minute that YOU can control whether or not you get sick with your lifestyle. You can try to increase the odds in our favour but elements like luck and genetics play their part.

Your belief that vitamin D will offer you absolute protection is naive. Go to a Hospital sometime and you'll see every type of person there. Some who always took their vitamins.

Originally Posted by whiteonion I protect myself from getting ill by eatings lots of vitamin D supplements and healthy food.

My name is URL · 15-01-2011 8:26pm

goat2 wrote: »

my understanding was, if we take the vaccine or jab against the swine flu, we would not get swine flu, can people explain how the person who got the jab die of swine flu, i am not well up on these things, i did not and i was not offered the jab

Nope.. no vaccine is 100% effective, but you're far less likely to become infected if you are vaccinated. Unless you're in one of the higher-risk groups then it won't be offered to you, but you can still talk to your GP about getting it.

Dave! · 15-01-2011 8:30pm

goat2 wrote: »

my understanding was, if we take the vaccine or jab against the swine flu, we would not get swine flu, can people explain how the person who got the jab die of swine flu, i am not well up on these things, i did not and i was not offered the jab

It doesn't guarantee immunity, but it certainly improves your chances. It reduces your likelihood of contracting H1N1 by 70-80%, and if you do end up contracting it anyway, your symptoms will probably be less severe.

Most people who die from the flu do so because of existing illnesses which are aggravated by the flu, or because their immune system is already compromised because of their illnesses. This patient had emphysema and lung cancer.

BTW OP, did you even read your link?

Vitamin D, which plays a key role in healthy bone development, may also decrease the risk of dying from H1N1 swine flu, a study finds.

The vitamin appeared to especially benefit people in high risk groups, including people who are obese. Obesity increases the risk of dying from viral diseases. Last year's H1N1 pandemic was especially deadly for pregnant women and people who were obese, according to health officials.

But a report, which will be published in the February 1 issue of Clinical Infectious Diseases found that vitamin D can help cut mortality rates.

The study, conducted by Janice Louie of the California Department of Public Health in Richmond, Calif., looked at 500 obese patients with a body mass index of 40 or more. It was found that these patients were three times more likely to die from viruses, like the flu, than people with a healthy BMI.

Dr. Rebecca S. Boxer, a geriatrician at University Hospitals Case Medical Center, says that vitamin D is important to the health of the immune system on a cellular level.

"Vitamin D also has a relationship to inflammation and obese patients may already have a degree of inflammation," she told AOL Health. "One way to understand this is that the volume of distribution of vitamin D might be greater for obese people. Vitamin D is fat-soluble. So the bigger you are, the more you need for it to show up at adequate levels in your blood. It spreads throughout the fat tissue and less of it is in your blood. So it can be difficult to find obese patients with enough vitamin D because it's sinking into their fat tissue."

Boxer says that there has been a lot of interest in vitamin D in relation to general health and well-being but that studies have not yet shown a direct cause and effect when it comes to the swine flu. "People are getting bigger, which can contribute to lower vitamin D levels. Also people do not get enough sun exposure," she said.

Eating foods high in vitamin D, such as fatty fish, including wild salmon, is a good way to maintain healthy levels of this vitamin, Boxer said.

"Everyone should be getting their levels checked," said. "If anything, we know that it can help keep bones healthy. We can't say that it will prevent the swine flu, but it's important to make sure you're getting enough."

So it sounds more like having a vitamin D deficiency (at least, present in your blood) makes you more vulnerable to viruses. It doesn't necessarily follow that those with normal levels will have added protection by taking extra vitamin D.

tightropetom · 15-01-2011 8:35pm

whiteonion wrote: »

A woman died from swine flu AFTER getting the jab.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1347171/Swine-flu-Merseyside-Grandmother-Eleanor-Carruthers-dies-AFTER-jab.html

What's the point in taking the vaccine if people fall ill any way?

The flu jab doesn't stop you getting the flu, it reduces the duration and for most people reduces the severity - ie will prevent the majority of patients from ending up with severe pneumonia or ending up on a ventilator. Therefore it means you might actually survive the swine flu - however there are NO 100%'s in medicine. The facts are that if people hadn't been receiving the vaccines, 100s or thousands of people might be dead by now.

If, however your underlying state of health is poor to begin with, even a milder flu could still kill you. Mrs Carruthers was seriously ill with emphysema and lung cancer, therefore even a normal chest infection was likely to severely impair her lung capacity.

tightropetom · 15-01-2011 8:38pm

goat2 wrote: »

my understanding was, if we take the vaccine or jab against the swine flu, we would not get swine flu, can people explain how the person who got the jab die of swine flu, i am not well up on these things, i did not and i was not offered the jab

See my previous post - it doesn't stop you getting the flu, but it reduces the chance of you getting a severe pneumonia from it, something which might kill you. It shortens the duration and severity of the flu by boosting your immune system's recognition of the virus so that it starts fighting it earlier.

steo87 · 15-01-2011 9:15pm

From Merseyside eh?

<clears throat>.....ELAAAAAAANOOOOR CAAAAAAAAH-ROOOO-THAAAAAAAS

steo87 · 15-01-2011 9:16pm

tightropetom wrote: »

See my previous post - it doesn't stop you getting the flu, but it reduces the chance of you getting a severe pneumonia from it, something which might kill you. It shortens the duration and severity of the flu by boosting your immune system's recognition of the virus so that it starts fighting it earlier.

I bet you googled that info? In order to sound smart? ....I'd know, I've done it...

tightropetom · 15-01-2011 9:26pm

steo87 wrote: »

I bet you googled that info? In order to sound smart? ....I'd know, I've done it...

No, actually. I know it from my job as a healthcare professional. Did you post that just to look smart by putting another person down? I wouldn't know. I've never done it.

Dave! · 15-01-2011 9:34pm

haw haw

steo87 · 16-01-2011 5:08am

tightropetom wrote: »

No, actually. I know it from my job as a healthcare professional. Did you post that just to look smart by putting another person down? I wouldn't know. I've never done it.

You're good....very good...a bit too good for Boards.

Lux23 · 16-01-2011 5:33am

I had the flu once when I was 7, I remember doing my homework on the coffee table and fainting half way through it. I woke up a day and a half later, still felt crap but I recovered. I am a very healthy and robust person so I have never felt that ill since (touch wood), but if I could get the vaccine I would.

My Mum has it at the moment but Im worried sick about my Dad catching it as his kidneys are failing and a flu could kill him. Yet he wasn't forced to get the jab.

goat2 · 16-01-2011 10:04pm

what foods contain vitamin D, and would it help to start taking more of it now, i do take vitamin c everyday, as a person in my family has this swine flu and are finding it hard to shake off.

anndub · 16-01-2011 10:13pm

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Anyways I never took it, I refuse to use vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers etc etc.

lol:D

Phill Ewinn · 16-01-2011 10:20pm

After last years debacle with Baxters swine flu vaccine, I won't be bothering. Interesting to see the difference in most every public place this year. Hardly a sign of hand sanitisers anywhere!

16-01-2011 10:30pm

I wonder how many people will die as an indirect result of this irresponsible piece of "journalism".

Writing a long piece based on anecdotal evidence of one patient with very serious pre-existing medical conditions (which were probably going to kill her on their own), and using it as some sort of smear on the efficacy of the swine flu vaccine is bound to deter some of its readers from getting vaccinated.

The Daily Mail is a complete and utter rag. I feel nothing but contempt for its editors and pity for its readers.

whiteonion · 16-01-2011 10:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how many people will die as an indirect result of this irresponsible piece of "journalism".

Writing a long piece based on anecdotal evidence of one patient with very serious pre-existing medical conditions (which were probably going to kill her on their own), and using it as some sort of smear on the efficacy of the swine flu vaccine is bound to deter some of its readers from getting vaccinated.

The Daily Mail is a complete and utter rag. I feel nothing but contempt for its editors and pity for its readers.

Why should I trust the result of "research" from corporation sponsored "studies"? They would sell us rat poison if they could get away with it. No vaccines for me. I eat my vitamin d.

16-01-2011 10:42pm

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should I trust the result of "research" from corporation sponsored "studies"? They would sell us rat poison if they could get away with it. No vaccines for me. I eat my vitamin d.

They already do.

Calibos · 17-01-2011 12:58am

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should I trust the result of "research" from corporation sponsored "studies"? They would sell us rat poison if they could get away with it. No vaccines for me. I eat my vitamin d.

Wheres the 'In One Ear and Out the Other' Smilie??

GLaDOS · 17-01-2011 1:10am

Calibos wrote: »

Wheres the 'In One Ear and Out the Other' Smilie??

It died of smallpox

pickarooney · 17-01-2011 11:04am

goat2 wrote: »

my understanding was, if we take the vaccine or jab against the swine flu, we would not get swine flu, can people explain how the person who got the jab die of swine flu, i am not well up on these things, i did not and i was not offered the jab

Neither was I, Tayto, they gave it to some Polish guy instead :mad:

upandcumming · 17-01-2011 11:46am

The jab has been linked to a rise in cases of Narcolepsy.

Dudess · 17-01-2011 11:57am

whiteonion wrote: »

No efficiency. The vaccine isn't very efficient if people get swine flu. Looks like this vaccine is not working properly.:mad:

Why are you ignoring the fact she already had serious health problems? And the fact that she is just one person?

But your anti pharmaceutical tirade is really (yawn) laudable. Or something. And original. Nevermind the massive amount of good these medicines have done, just make up stuff in your head that you can't prove - it's really rebellious n' sh1t. Presume you're 13 - we all took stances like that when we were 13. You'll grow out of it - especially when you need antibiotics.

The "efficiency" of the swine flu vaccine

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