Reforming RTE

Elmo

CDfm:

The problem with Digital has not be that RTÉ have been allowed (or that RTÉ are trying) to hold on to their monopoly it is the problem of the Independent broadcasters to basically ignore the new medium.

The bond issue which has been discussed at length here on boards was not a problem with RTÉ but with the respective commercial consortia.

Easy TV was prob never going to be let happen with UPC monopoly and problems surrounding its takeover of NTL Ireland. Also UPC possibly didn't want to be in competition with itself and RTÉ has taken the view that FTA Satellite along with Saorsat can be a competitor to both Sky and UPC.

Bar the southeast no other commercial company has invested into DAB. The fact that Newstalk and Today FM are not available on RTÉ's DAB service is an issue for Communicorp not RTÉ. I don't think RTÉ would have an issue placing them on either Saorview or their DAB service.

As for Newstalk Moncrief and Dunne put me off and the Feminist out there will never complain that there are very few Women presenters on Newstalk. :rolleyes:

As for RTÉ being tabloid, I only see that with their Crime Correspondent but I feel unfortunately Crime often leads to Red Top reporting. RTÉ News is generally just information, while its Current Affairs can push the boat out at times with programmes like Prime Time Investigates. IMO the Frontline is a disappointing replacement for Q&A, Pat Kenny is much better than this show IMO.

But again we seem to all think that RTÉ is just about News and Current Affairs. Radio 1 is a mixed genre radio service and I see no problem with that.

CDfm

That is fine Elmo and it really does not bother me.

But the RTE legacy goes back to when it was part of the old Department of Posts and Telegraphs and controlling all broadcasting. In marketing, it has managed to get control of distribution. This is wrong.

On its mixed media - it does manage to enter markets that others identify for a big buck and is not afraid to throw its weight about to crowd others out. Very similar to Dublin Bus trying to take over the Swords Express Route.

On economics (my area of qualification) & government ( as opposed to politics which is about winning elections) its coverage on issues is so poor that it is awful.

So if Political is Red Top and partisan -then I guess that joins crime. Joe Duffy ...if Jerry Springer did radio it would sound like this.

It is sad in a way, because, in the past it was a great program maker and now it excels at the mediocre. (I sound like Eamonn Dunphy )

watty

The Governement decided around 2000 ... 2001 to make the distribution separate and sell it off. No one wants to buy.

eircom infrastructure should have been kept. RTE NL, eNet, ESB fibre & Masts etc should be part of one Semi State National Resource.

CDfm

watty wrote: »

The Governement decided around 2000 ... 2001 to make the distribution separate and sell it off. No one wants to buy.

eircom infrastructure should have been kept. RTE NL, eNet, ESB fibre & Masts etc should be part of one Semi State National Resource.

that would be an ecunimical matter and who know what type of conditions there were

i am sure if the donnybrook site was turned into a broadcasting campus available for all operators a bit like the DAA (dublin airport authority) then it would be a different propostion

god knows -the site is big enough

jimmycrackcorm

Rte should be broken up to become an independent station. The licence fee should be held by an independent authority who would then use it to pay for Irish made programming that could be resold to any of the independent stations. Programs would then have to be tendered for in terms of quality and cost.

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

that would be an ecunimical matter and who know what type of conditions there were

i am sure if the donnybrook site was turned into a broadcasting campus available for all operators a bit like the DAA (dublin airport authority) then it would be a different propostion

god knows -the site is big enough

There is nothing really stopping TV3 or TG4 from using RTÉ Studios. As long as they are willing to pay for their use of it. ITV use BBC studios and BBC use ITV, I don't know how often, but it has been done.

But the RTE legacy goes back to when it was part of the old Department of Posts and Telegraphs and controlling all broadcasting. In marketing, it has managed to get control of distribution. This is wrong.

On its mixed media - it does manage to enter markets that others identify for a big buck and is not afraid to throw its weight about to crowd others out. Very similar to Dublin Bus trying to take over the Swords Express Route.

RTÉ happen to own the network. IMO the distancing of RTÉ from the Network has been a good thing, but any attempt to sell it off for a quick buck (as with Cablelink and Eircom) does not take into consideration the future. The Network should be separate for many reasons, one being the need to invest in programming. However from what I gather RTÉ 1 and 2 pay far more for the use of the network than either TV3 or TG4, should it become separate I believe that TV3 and TG4 maybe faced to pay more. (This is going on RTÉ Annual report in relation to transmission costs and RTÉ NL's pricing list).

However the Network should not be sold rather as pointed out it should be a semi-state body.

I think that it is funny that RTÉ's competition pedal out this idea that RTÉ imposes itself in areas of highly commercial areas. There is nothing stopping TV3 being more competitive it can use its audience share and additional advertising revenue to retain its 15% audience share right through out the year not just during the X-Factor. But it is a case of having to invest money to create significant programming, TV3 need to look at what TG4 are doing but they just need to do it in English.

Look at the innovation that TodayFM did with The Last Word, they just need to do more of this, which they can do through NewsTalk and TodayFM.

In terms of Radio Communicorp are just as monopolistic. They hold the 2 national radio licences, 2 local Dublin services and one Regional service, while UTV have 6 local radio services. The fact that none of these channels are available on DAB is an issue with both companies.

Also don't Local radio stations own their own networks in most cases?

I don't think Newstalk is on the RTÉ Network.

As I said their needs to be sweeping changes to broadcasting not just from RTÉ. I am sure if I suggested RTÉ Local Radio services it would go down like a lead balloon.

Sam Russell

From what I have noticed, the indepentant producers are not uniform in the quality of there programmes. Particularly there production values. The basic ability to do post-production edits so that a good quality film results is beyond most of them. Their productions are full of jumping zooms, massive fast camera swings that would make the viewer dizzy. It is all very juvenile.

RTE should return to what they were very good at - live television. The Late, Late was a beacon, as one of the longest live broadcasts (over 2 hours), running for the longest number of years. It has been reduced to 'Saturday Live' with a procession of 'Z' list celebs in to push their latest opus. Poor TV and poor entertainment. More recently it has turned into the RTE self publicity show, pushing poor shows due to start next week.

The new DG should look araound to see what he can do with no money, perhaps good ideas may make up the difference.

TG4 does a better job on considerably less money. TV3 does an appalling job, on even less money (spent on programmes, they report good profits).

newbie2

Elmo wrote: »

There is nothing really stopping TV3 or TG4 from using RTÉ Studios. As long as they are willing to pay for their use of it. ITV use BBC studios and BBC use ITV, I don't know how often, but it has been done.

TV3, TG4, BBC and UTV have all used studios on the RTÉ campus. The TV facilities IBD of RTÉ is available for anybody who wishes to pay for it.

@OP

There's a lot of rubbish in your post which Elmo has already corrected. In future maybe you should post a rant in AH as opposed to here./

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

TG4 does a better job on considerably less money. TV3 does an appalling job, on even less money (spent on programmes, they report good profits).

TV3 has more money than TG4. It just spends most of it on Imports and Sporting right (even though they have less sporting rights than TG4).

@Newbie2

I think that is a bit unfair on the OP. I think it is a good discussion which does not rely on overt RTÉ bashing but sets out some issues that could be over come by the Company.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

There is nothing really stopping TV3 or TG4 from using RTÉ Studios. As long as they are willing to pay for their use of it. ITV use BBC studios and BBC use ITV, I don't know how often, but it has been done.

If there ever was a location that lend itself to doing TV production like a Movie Studio lot for Europe -it is the one.

It lacks vision.

. The Network should be separate for many reasons, one being the need to invest in programming. However from what I gather RTÉ 1 and 2 pay far more for the use of the network than either TV3 or TG4, should it become separate I believe that TV3 and TG4 maybe faced to pay more. (This is going on RTÉ Annual report in relation to transmission costs and RTÉ NL's pricing list).

Ah but , RTE paying RTE is a bit like a publican buying pints in his own pub. It is illusory.

The RTE site is flipping huge.

However the Network should not be sold rather as pointed out it should be a semi-state body.

I agree

Look at the innovation that TodayFM did with The Last Word, they just need to do more of this, which they can do through NewsTalk and TodayFM.

They did and in a small market like Ireland the independents should get protection to allow them innovate.
.

As I said their needs to be sweeping changes to broadcasting not just from RTÉ. I am sure if I suggested RTÉ Local Radio services it would go down like a lead balloon

.

Absolutely :pac:

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

If there ever was a location that lend itself to doing TV production like a Movie Studio lot for Europe -it is the one.

It lacks vision.:

Tell that to the German Ambassador. http://www.rte.ie/about/project2025/

They did and in a small market like Ireland the independents should get protection to allow them innovate.

But they must also prove that they are being innovative, most locals have just sat back with little vision to their programming schedules.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

Tell that to the German Ambassador. http://www.rte.ie/about/project2025/

But they should already be there, the point is that they have gone backwards.

But they must also prove that they are being innovative,

Well you don't have to be innovative to be good. Not a Daniel O'Donnell fan but when he had his TV show he did get good guests like Luka Bloom on and put on a reasonable show.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0423634/

If they can't produce a Wanderly Wagon then I think they are not at the races.

most locals have just sat back with little vision to their programming schedules.

I would make Joe Duffy the Irish Jeremy Kyle/ Jerry Springer just for the hell of it. He attracts that kind of guest

loguer

newbie2 wrote: »

@OP

There's a lot of rubbish in your post which Elmo has already corrected. In future maybe you should post a rant in AH as opposed to here./

I won't take instructions from anyone. By all means debate what I've said as Elmo and others have so if you want to argue the toss go right ahead and do so. Simply posting a "yeah, what he said" style post isn't just lazy, it's plain stupid.

You might find it helps to develop your brain

loguer

Project 2025 strikes me at least as pointless and a key indicator at how RTÉ aren't living in the real world...

RTÉ state that Project 2025 is there to make them ready for HD, but RTÉ converted the existing Television centre to colour over a five year period from 1971 to 1976. They could do the same with HD. The new payout facilities already support HD afaik and will need to do so before RTE Two HD launches later this year.

There's no reason why the Montrose studios couldn't become a general TV campus for RTE and TV3 and indeed any other broadcaster wishing to base themselves in Dublin.

Elmo: My view that RTÉ are a nepotism hotspot is based on a few experiences. Twenty five years ago I shared a flat in London with someone whose father was a senior manager in RTE. Said flatmate worked his summers at Montrose in the accounts department and got that job because his Dad had set him up for it. As a student I had written to RTE asking for summer work but never even got a reply. My flatmate told me straight that any such temp work was always (this was the mid 80s) filled by relations of RTE personnel.

Much later I worked at the BBC. A colleague who did work with RTE frequently joked with me about how many people he'd worked with in RTE were related to each other.

I happen to know someone who had worked at a senior level in RTE who claimed most people got in via the "pull".

None of these claims are scientific and would not stand up in a court of law but I have no reason not to believe them.

watty

Project 2025 is maybe about selling off land to make money.

If so nothing will happen about it till market recovers.

icdg

I'm not a big fan of the One Big Semi State Network plan that many people seem to have come in favour of (largely because of experience with the Eircom privatisation). Fine Gael call it "SmartGrid", but to me handing one firm that amount of control over the state's infrastructure is creating the monopoly to end all monopolies. There would have to be huge safeguards - a very strong external regulator (something we traditionally haven't had too much of), open access with fair pricing, and a requirement that the company would not be allowed sell direct to consumers nor own any firm selling direct to consumers.

As an example of why this is a bad idea, we come to the case of Cablelink. Cablelink went absolutely nowhere in technological terms between 1989 and 1999. The channel names may have been different, but while the predecesors of Virgin Media in the UK were offering 40 channel analogue services, telephone, and cable modems, Cablelink were quite happy to go along doing the same thing it had been doing for the past fifteen years. Why was this? Because Telecom didn't want it in the communications industry. Why would they - they would only have taken custom away from the core business. And Telecom got 100% of Telecom's profits. It only got 60% of Cablelink's so there was every incentive to ensure Cablelink stayed out of internet and telephone provision. If Cablelink had remained in Eircom's hands it would never have offered broadband, because they would have wanted you to take Eircom broadband instead.

But back to RTÉ...

RTÉ was for many years the ONLY place to get national TV/radio current affairs coverage in Ireland. Down the country ILRs covered local issues but in Dublin this wasn't the case and the news/current affairs quota was - and still is - being met by the likes of Chris Barry and Adrian Kennedy. The Last Word on Today FM was the sole survivor of the original Radio Ireland schedule and only survived becasue of that 20% news and current affairs quota. When TV3 first launched they had no pretensions and apart from their news bulettins the only current affairs was 20/20 which was in fact an ABC programme re-edited with Irish links and one Irish story per week. Its praised for Vincent Browne now, but he's a recent signing. Indeed in normal circumstances TV3 airs no news programming other than short summaries between Friday 6pm and Monday 5:30pm and to me that is not good enough.

Would a commercial broadcaster run RnaG? Lyric FM? Would it make Oireachtas Report? TRTÉ and RTÉjr? Run Prime Time in actual Prime Time? Run 2 1/2 hours of news each day on TV and more than 5 hours on radio?Would a commercial broadcaster interrupt The X Factor for a major breaking news story? We know the answer to that one; when news broke that the IMF were being called in, TV3 continued to run with the X Factor for fear viewers would just switch to ITV1.

TV3 would have RTÉ reduced to the PBS or ABC (Australia) model - make only "worthy" programmes, market failure only. No more sport (except maybe minority sports), no more films (except arthouse films), no more US drama, no more British drama. Neither of these broadcasters are in reciept of a licence fee (any more in the ABC's case). Indeed under this model the licence fee system would inevitably break down (as happened in Australia), as people would say "I don't watch current affairs/classical music/arts/kids TV, so why should I pay my licence fee?" The move to general taxation funding would gather apace. Of course, once that takes place, the Government gain instant control over RTÉ's budget and the ability to threathen them with instant funding cuts if they don't fall in line, as indeed happened with the ABC in Australia.

CDfm

icdg wrote: »

I agree with you on the infrastructure

But back to RTÉ...

The Last Word on Today FM was the sole survivor of the original Radio Ireland schedule and only survived becasue of that 20% news and current affairs quota.

Maybe so - but they do it so well.

George Hook on Newstalk is an amazing radio host and very fast paced.

When TV3 first launched they had no pretensions and apart from their news bulettins the only current affairs was 20/20 which was in fact an ABC programme re-edited with Irish links and one Irish story per week. Its praised for Vincent Browne now, but he's a recent signing. Indeed in normal circumstances TV3 airs no news programming other than short summaries between Friday 6pm and Monday 5:30pm and to me that is not good enough.

It brought choice to people who could not get cable or satellite. Everyone knows that.

Would a commercial broadcaster run RnaG? Lyric FM? Would it make Oireachtas Report? TRTÉ and RTÉjr? Run Prime Time in actual Prime Time? Run 2 1/2 hours of news each day on TV and more than 5 hours on radio?Would a commercial br
oadcaster interrupt
. Indeed under this model the licence fee system would inevitably break down (as happened in Australia), as people would say "I don't watch current affairs/classical music/arts/kids TV, so why should I pay my licence fee?"

Those of us that are interested in economics and government do not rate RTE's current affairs highly . I personnally think it is poor. Others have posted that they don't rate the news coverage rating it with the Red Tops..

RTE's history show on radio and is pure drivel compared to the Newstalk offering.

To compare ourselves to either Australia or the UK is much too ambitious we are a small country and dont have that much news.

The move to general taxation funding would gather apace. Of course, once that takes place, the Government gain instant control over RTÉ's budget and the ability to threathen them with instant funding cuts if they don't fall in line, as indeed happened with the ABC in Australia.

If you want to support culture and the arts from central government do that.

If I use the programming I am interested and qualified in as a yardstick and the quality is poor so maybe its other areas are poor too.

It is media and entertainment and if there is not a demand well.

The market has moved on since RTE's formation -its gone the same way as local newspapers.

If there is a need for it I cant see it.

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

icdg wrote: »

I agree with you on the infrastructure

But back to RTÉ...

I agree but I still think the network should remain in the states hands rather than what happened with Eircom (but then eircom should have been split 3 ways before privatization Networks, Consumer, Mobile <== you could go futher I assume). I don't think a major monopoly holder of all network would be worthwhile, it suggests that ComReg would control all networks.

Maybe so - but they do it so well.

George Hook on Newstalk is an amazing radio host and very fast paced

It's either Mary or Matt for me, Hook is annoying. Its a pity that McGurk didn't last longer on 4FM. Though fast paced sounds very Red Top to me.

It brought choice to people who could not get cable or satellite. Everyone knows that.

As a person who lived in 3 TV land back in 1998 I was expecting more. TG4 had just launched 2 years perviously airing a decent set of Irish Language programmes from Drama, Comedy, Documentary, Short Film etc on a tiny budget of £16million. You can imagine what I was expecting from TV3 in 1998, a new Irish soap, Irish docs, Irish entertainment, Irish comedy especially when they report that they were spending £20million on programming. How disappointed was I when we got Early Edition, Just Shoot Me and other cheap US imports oh and EastEnders. Now they have changed and we just get ITV programming with a huge amount of cheap In House In Studio Chat making up their 30% quota. So no TG4 has provided me at least with more choice.

Those of us that are interested in economics and government do not rate RTE's current affairs highly . I personnally think it is poor. Others have posted that they don't rate the news coverage rating it with the Red Tops..

I personally disagree with this. I find RTÉ news balanced. While I know many go on about how FF lead it is, I personally don't find this. And I amn't a FF person. I think Newstalk let themselves down with Dunne and Monicrieff both of whom would work well and better on Today FM, Ray Foley should be moved to 98fm. And yes I have an interest in Politics and Economics.

To compare ourselves to either Australia or the UK is much too ambitious we are a small country and dont have that much news.

Do we not? You sound like you want international news, and I will agree RTÉ don't do this well but they do cover Irish stories. I think they should have RTÉ News on Two as a International Bulletin.

If you want to support culture and the arts from central government do that.

If I use the programming I am interested and qualified in as a yardstick and the quality is poor so maybe its other areas are poor too.

It is media and entertainment and if there is not a demand well.

The market has moved on since RTE's formation -its gone the same way as local newspapers.

If there is a need for it I cant see it.

I don't want culture and arts from central government. In the same way as I don't want to hear from the Minister of Culture when he spends the Lottos money which should be independent from him and technically is, but sure the Minister got us those GAA grounds :rolleyes:

As I said it isn't just about News and Current Affairs. RTÉ commissioned docs are some of the best and their Gealige, Religion and Multiculture section has developed some great docs including WYB. You should check out the Irish Doc on the Novel The Grass Arena.

I disagree with the Idea of a service like ABC or PBS since both are kept away from (e.g.) Live Sport yet both will produce excellent Sporting Docs

No the market prob doesn't demand Irish programming but since there is so little of it who would know what kind of market is out there. Culture and Arts aren't about the market. Should we close down the museums? the zoo? knock down Newgrange for a hypermaket or a road?

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Knock down Newgrange for a hypermaket or a road?

Well they did knock down Tara to build the M3, and put two tolls onto it!

watty

Oh..

I thought it was Trolls.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

I personally disagree with this. I find RTÉ news balanced. While I know many go on about how FF lead it is, I personally don't find this. And I amn't a FF person. I think Newstalk let themselves down with Dunne and Monicrieff both of whom would work well and better on Today FM, Ray Foley should be moved to 98fm. And yes I have an interest in Politics and Economics.

I actually find it very uninformed for a national broadcaster and lacking depth. It really is pathetic.

Its economic analysis is woeful. George Lee :rolleyes:

I am not a Dunne fan -but Sean Montcrieff is a legend.

Do we not? You sound like you want international news, and I will agree RTÉ don't do this well but they do cover Irish stories. I think they should have RTÉ News on Two as a International Bulletin.

There is not enough news in Ireland to merit the amount of current affairs and news offerings on RTE.

I don't want culture and arts from central government.

Oh yes , Blaithnaid Ni Coffaigh and the Afternoon Show

*screams and hides behind the couch*

As I said it isn't just about News and Current Affairs. RTÉ commissioned docs are some of the best and their Gealige, Religion and Multiculture section has developed some great docs including WYB. You should check out the Irish Doc on the Novel The Grass Arena.

I dont agree.

I disagree with the Idea of a service like ABC or PBS since both are kept away from (e.g.) Live Sport yet both will produce excellent Sporting Docs

Either be pbs or commercial but not both.

No the market prob doesn't demand Irish programming but since there is so little of it who would know what kind of market is out there. Culture and Arts aren't about the market. Should we close down the museums? the zoo? knock down Newgrange for a hypermaket or a road?

Well, culture is subjective and if you want culture subsidise it from the general taxation fund and abolish the tv licence.

They should stand on their own two feet .

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

I actually find it very uninformed for a national broadcaster and lacking depth. It really is pathetic.

Its economic analysis is woeful. George Lee :rolleyes:

Well then you must remember not to vote FG at the next election.

I am not a Dunne fan -but Sean Montcrieff is a legend.

Yes but wouldn't both lend themselves to a stronger Today FM with Dunne being moved back to music. And The Last Word moved to Newstalk with Hook replacing either Dunne or Moncrieff?

There is not enough news in Ireland to merit the amount of current affairs and news offerings on RTE.

???? but their is enough for a Radio News Service???? Plenty of news happening across the Island of Ireland for RTÉ to discuss.

Oh yes , Blaithnaid Ni Coffaigh and the Afternoon Show

*screams and hides behind the couch*

The Afternoon Show was axed last year, but as a side swip to me saying I don't want Culture from Central government its not very good.

I dont agree.

Well I recommend http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1088732 John Healy: You Have Been Warned. I have been searching for his book since it aired, the bookshops are taking orders from people. I pick this one because it was just on the air there are plenty of other strong arts docs that RTÉ have produced over the years.

Either be pbs or commercial but not both.

And then many go around complaining that they never watch it. I don't know how well ABC does in Australia but I know that in America its a bone of contention when Tax payers money goes towards PBS. Look at how people react to TG4 even though they often produce some of the best documentaries and factual programming. Having read into PBS in the states their main acclaim in terms of market is their children's programming mainly because PBS Kids isn't stiffiled by political and public scrutiny. It allows it to transend across all socio-economic groups while PBS remains firmly a service for the upper middle class.

Well, culture is subjective and if you want culture subsidise it from the general taxation fund and abolish the tv licence.

They should stand on their own two feet .

The historic reason for the TV licence has been to prevent political influence. Has that worked in this country? No. It came to the fore in the 1980s as the government began to provide private licences. Ray Burke froze both the licence fee and ad revenue (to an extent the limit on ad mins still exists for RTÉ and TG4), he did this purely on vindictive grounds and the back handers he was getting from at least one independent service provider, and then tried to force RTÉ to reduce transmission cost on their network even though they had be priced correctly. The only time in the history of the state were the Minister for Justice and Communications were one in the same. Allot of this has changed the Minister can still say how many mins of ads appear on RTÉ and TG4 and he can freeze the licence fee. However the reviews of such issues are more common now meaning that the Minister has to at least consider increases or decreases.

I would be in favour of a cultural levy placed on Electricity Bills which would go towards RTÉ and the BAI. This would replace the "TV" Licence Fee. General Taxation would be under more control than the licence fee.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

Well then you must remember not to vote FG at the next election.

George is not great on his comic timing

Yes but wouldn't both lend themselves to a stronger Today FM with Dunne being moved back to music. And The Last Word moved to Newstalk with Hook replacing either Dunne or Moncrieff?

Maybe so, but it has developed him as a broadcaster and Newstalk has developed with a very good team.

Orla Barry - probably the best young woman broadcaster and I miss Suzzane Byrne's news bulletins during the sports coverage.

???? but their is enough for a Radio News Service???? Plenty of news happening across the Island of Ireland for RTÉ to discuss

Its local mish mash - I used to do a lot of driving and really I would listen to anything other than RTE. Not consciously.

The Afternoon Show was axed last year, but as a side swip to me saying I don't want Culture from Central government its not very good.

hee hee

Well I recommend http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1088732 John Healy: You Have Been Warned. I have been searching for his book since it aired, the bookshops are taking orders from people. I pick this one because it was just on the air there are plenty of other strong arts docs that RTÉ have produced over the years.

Funnily enough, years back Mike Murphy had a radio arts show a few years ago which was streets ahead of anything on TV in terms of both content and presentation. Paraic Breathnach , Jacksie in Killinaskully, is probably on Irelands greatest theatre & arts actor/managers of this generation and expert/fans yet we rarely see him as a guest on Arts shows.

And then many go around complaining that they never watch it. I don't know how well ABC does in Australia but I know that in America its a bone of contention when Tax payers money goes towards PBS. Look at how people react to TG4 even though they often produce some of the best documentaries and factual programming.

Having read into PBS in the states their main acclaim in terms of market is their children's programming mainly because PBS Kids isn't stiffiled by political and public scrutiny. It allows it to transend across all socio-economic groups while PBS remains firmly a service for the upper middle class.

Maybe RTE has dominated this market for Kids TV.

The Licence fee is a tax.

The historic reason for the TV licence has been to prevent political influence. Has that worked in this country? No. It came to the fore in the 1980s as the government began to provide private licences. Ray Burke froze both the licence fee and ad revenue (to an extent the limit on ad mins still exists for RTÉ and TG4), he did this purely on vindictive grounds and the back handers he was getting from at least one independent service provider, and then tried to force RTÉ to reduce transmission cost on their network even though they had be priced correctly.

It is always arguable ,but RTE do not justify their priveledged position.

That said. TG4 has produced some great historic crime documentaries which would stand up on any factual crime channel. I have seen the odd old timer interview show which are cheap but are definately archivist material of the future.

The only time in the history of the state were the Minister for Justice and Communications were one in the same. Allot of this has changed the Minister can still say how many mins of ads appear on RTÉ and TG4 and he can freeze the licence fee. However the reviews of such issues are more common now meaning that the Minister has to at least consider increases or decreases.

IMHO -its PBS needs to be seperate from its local & commercial as it competes with commercial operators -which is not fair.

The world has moved on.

I would be in favour of a cultural levy placed on Electricity Bills which would go towards RTÉ and the BAI. This would replace the "TV" Licence Fee. General Taxation would be under more control than the licence fee.

A stealth tax -maybe

watty

Elmo wrote: »

The historic reason for the TV licence has been to prevent political influence.

Actually it was to raise money and started before we had a TV station. They had mooted it some years before they did launch TV licence.

It's a Tax on having TV reception.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Actually it was to raise money and started before we had a TV station. They had mooted it some years before they did launch TV licence.

It's a Tax on having TV reception.

From a world historical view point. Getting direct funding from the Exchequre is not good for PSB.

Funnily enough, years back Mike Murphy had a radio arts show a few years ago which was streets ahead of anything on TV in terms of both content and presentation. Paraic Breathnach , Jacksie in Killinaskully, is probably on Irelands greatest theatre & arts actor/managers of this generation and expert/fans yet we rarely see him as a guest on Arts shows.

Paraic Breathnach had an arts show on TG4 for a number of years called "Seo Sceal Paraic". I but then I wasn't just talking about arts review shows rather arts documentaries etc. And yes TG4 chat show "comhrá" will be a huge benefit to social historians now and in the future.

IMHO -its PBS needs to be seperate from its local & commercial as it competes with commercial operators -which is not fair.

The world has moved on.

In terms of Television (and even radio) the market is still very one side as to what makes money.

Take for example 4FM, asked the BAI to reduce its speech content and rather than going for the over 55s now looks for the over 45s. Many of the youth stations basically play pop and bare no real relevance (not say that RTÉ haven't done that with 2FM).

TV3 even if you consider it choice is still just looking for cheap TV, nothing really significant comes from that channel bar VB and really that is only because of VB himself.

If you look at many of the Transnational TV services they are only aimed at a very small demographic 15 - 45 and mostly air some type of reality TV/ General entertainment. Sky look like they might shake that up with Sky Atlantic.

watty

Elmo wrote: »

From a world historical view point. Getting direct funding from the Exchequre is not good for PSB.

Oh, totally agreed. I've always said that. It's an imperfect system and I think adverts should be better controlled and no sponsorship on PSB.

Maybe only adverts between programs and none of children's TV.

Short fall via Comreg's "profits" which are considerable.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

From a world historical view point. Getting direct funding from the Exchequre is not good for PSB.

Ahem, not good for RTE, whether or not it is good for broadcasting is something else.

The capital assets of RTE studios etc have are huge and they do little with them. Anyone who has visited the RTE complex and the resourses of other broadcasters cannot help but see the difference.

Paraic Breathnach had an arts show on TG4 for a number of years called "Seo Sceal Paraic". I but then I wasn't just talking about arts review shows rather arts documentaries etc. And yes TG4 chat show "comhrá" will be a huge benefit to social historians now and in the future.

I thought it worth pointing out that I am not RTE phobic.

In terms of Television (and even radio) the market is still very one side as to what makes money.

Take for example 4FM, asked the BAI to reduce its speech content and rather than going for the over 55s now looks for the over 45s. Many of the youth stations basically play pop and bare no real relevance (not say that RTÉ haven't done that with 2FM).

I can't help thinking that RTE did not need 4FM and the PSB argument is irrelevant .

TV3 even if you consider it choice is still just looking for cheap TV, nothing really significant comes from that channel bar VB and really that is only because of VB himself.

For people who cannot afford or get cable or Satelite they increase entertainment choice at little or no cost.

If you look at many of the Transnational TV services they are only aimed at a very small demographic 15 - 45 and mostly air some type of reality TV/ General entertainment. Sky look like they might shake that up with Sky Atlantic.[/QUOTE]

15-45 is a big demographic.

The state should not dictate to people what they should or should not enjoy or find entertaining.

I love the Jerry Springer Show -hands up - WWE & TNA amuse me greatly-now of Blaitnid was on them -I might watch her.

watty

If you are allowed a Dish, Satellite is small once off cost, 1/4 of an HDTV, to get 45+ useful free channels (out of 200 to 1000 possible).

Elmo

TG4 is not RTÉ.
If TV3 are choice then why are they still showing us shows we saw on RTÉ during the 1990s? My point with TV3 is they haven't really try anything outside In House productions. As a broadcaster they don't need big facilities as many have pointed out, much of their output should come from Indo Producers. I don't think TV3 is a great example, unfortunately.

15-45 is a big demographic.

Yes but it doesn't help that all niche or genre TV is aimed at the same key demographic. I mean if your going to have a Music service surely you should play some music videos or live music. My issue with 4FM was its demographic, rather than a 55+ licence it should have been considered golden oldies/news service. As Lite FM (or what ever they call it now) becomes 25+ 4FM will become 45+.