Reforming RTE

loguer

For the last 50 years RTE television has been widely regarded as the cultural heart of the nation. Most Irish people will readily tell you of their favourite moments on Irish television and for most of those 50 years - even since TV3 have been around - those moments have come from RTE television.

RTE is indeed an institution of Irish life. But like many Irish institutions it has become so certain of itself and so secure in its own sense of its own destiny that it somehow regards itself as immune to criticism and determined at all costs to preserve its dominant role in Irish broadcasting.

Not that the competition has been much of a threat. TV3 have consistently disappointed in terms of their impact on Irish cultural life. Who needs UTV with Dublin branding? Yet that is why instead of threatening RTE's existence, TV3 actuallly have bolstered RTE's dominant position in Irish broadcasting.

Unlike nearly every other European broadcaster, RTE control all aspects of the transmission of their programmes. RTE own their studios. RTE produce most of their programmes. RTE transmit those programmes and it's RTE who decides what platforms those programmes are transmitted on.

This rather unique aspect of how RTE operates its television and radio services means that on the radio side it was RTE who decided that Ireland's digital radio service would only carry channels that RTE approved. Many Irish people would like to listen to BBC Radio 5 Live or BBC Radio 2 on Digital Radio in Ireland. RTE decided that they would not like any BBC services on DAB so instead there is a mix of RTE operated stations that have low listenership figures. The commercial sector have also stayed well away from DAB and so it seems to me at least that DAB will eventually fail. A mix of redundant technology and a poor choice of stations means that anyone buying a DAB radio in Ireland would be better off spending that money on an Internet radio to get an almost unlimited choice that RTE cannot restrict.

On the television side, RTE are slowly rolling out digital terrestrial TV in the form of Saorview. Thanks to the shrewd tactics of RTE NL there will be no pay TV or UK TV on Irish Digital terrestrial. Just like the botched DAB rollout, RTE NL are ensuring there is no TV other than their own on Irish Digital TV.

RTE News and Current Affairs produces professional output across radio and television and thousands of Irish people depend on RTE for their news daily. But how independent of the governmment or specifically the Fianna Fail party is the RTE newsroom? Witness the gutless climbdown from RTE over the Brian Cowen cartoons in the National Gallery and the Royal Irish Academy - it was shown that all the government press secretary had to do was phone Montrose and not only did RTE offer up a grovelling apology for the clip but they also removed it from their website. Well known presenters like Ryan Tubridy and Miriam O'Callaghan have known links with the Fianna Fail party. Did Bryan Dobson give Cowen a well deserved grilling on the Six-One news? Of course not. Why did RTE pull the plug on Vincent Browne at a government press conference? Fear of giving a TV3 journalist airtime on RTE? Or fear of displeasing their political masters if Browne asked the questions of Fianna Fail that their own journalists would not dare to?

Why is it that nearly 30 years after most European countries started TV news bulletins that RTE is totally incapable of providing a news programme on TV in the morning?

One of the reasons for this is that RTE is one of the most notorious closed shops in the country. RTE will claim it is the trade unions in RTE but when was the last time anyone reading this got a job in RTE by answering an advertisement in the press? The chances are if you are working in RTE you will have got in there because you know or are related to someone working in there already. It strikes me that when RTE do recruit from outside, the furthest they go is over the bridge from Montrose to Belfield to see what talent they can quietly gather up in UCD. It makes for a very insular organisation - and I for one would love to see statistics published to see exactly who is related to who working in RTE.
Not for nothing is RTE regarded as one of the most nepotistic organisations in Ireland.

Ireland is a nation of emigrators; we have one of the biggest diasporas in the world yet it is impossible to watch Irish television unless the RTE player is used. Internet TV fills a gap but anyone who uses it will tell you that the picture quality is poor compared to broadcast TV.

When a serious attempt of broadcasting to the diaspora in the shape of TARA television was made; RTE ensured that TARA was shut down. RTE are yet to replace it but if they had some imagination the diaspora could pay their way and watch the full complement of Irish TV instead of resorting to back door Sky subscriptions.

So what is to be done?

RTE needs to be reformed. RTE, or the bodies that could replace it must provide the Irish people as a whole the following:

1: A full and comprehensive news service entirely independent of government and political interference.

2: A genuinely Irish programming experience that does not rely on imports.

3: A publisher-broadcaster that is not top heavy with staffers and instead commissions programmes from independent producers.

4: Rather than building RTE owned and operated studios the studios division should be sold off. A publisher-broadcaster does not need the vast studio premises that RTE have in Donnybrook.

5: For too long Irish television has been our best-kept secret. At a minimum there should be one Irish originated television channel made available free to air worldwide to connect to our diaspora and beyond. At the same time we have got valuable content across all Irish channels and these channels should be made available worldwide for a subscription equivalent to the full Irish TV licence.

6: RTE maintain a vast archive dating back to 1926 and earlier. This priceless national resource should be owned by a seperate body, similar in principle to the French INA. These archives should be digitised and made available on the Internet for all, not just a few privileged academics and RTE insiders.

7: RTE NL should not be owned by RTE. The RTE NL organisation should be spun off into a seperate Semi-State and kept in public hands. The transmission network must be broadcaster-neutral. Decisons made on what channels appear on any platform should be made on the basis of that channels willingness to be on the platform. In addition there should be an open door to any TV platform to provide Irish channels. The Saorview and Saorsat platforms themselves would be controlled by this seperate Semi-State, not RTE.

In conclusion, the existing structures through which RTE is managed were created over 50 years ago at a time when the technology was very different and the expectations of what could and should be provided by our national broadcaster were very different.

Times are different now and while RTE have served us well over the last 50 years we now need a newer, more agile organisation to serve us the viewers and listeners. We need to preserve what is good about RTE, and there is much that is good about it.

But we can no longer afford the bureaucracy, the nepotism and the desire to strangle innovation.

We need a new RTE.

Capt'n Midnight

*Yawn*

been done to death

a lot of the things you would like to happen will cost money , so they won't happen ,

yes we need a purge of overpaid political appointees in ALL semi state organisations

you have to remember everyone compares RTE to ITN / BBC / Channel 4 , not to the other European organisations , so most of your points about owning studios / other infrastructure are irrelevant ,


Short answer, TG4 does a lot of what you want already. It would be far cheaper to get them to do other stuff.

watty

My comment
http://www.techtir.ie/blog/loguey/reforming-rte#comments

rlogue

Channel 4 don't have any production facility. The BBC don't transmit their own programmes and ITV have cut themselves down from 12 production facilities to 3. Your counter argument doesnt hold water.

It's time we stopped measuring ourselves against what we *think* the UK does and take the wider picture.

I could easily be persuaded though of a reverse takeover of RTE by TG4.

watty

That's my main point.

I'm thinking more of what the oringinal ambition was for C4 and the Era when they did do production. Not today's rubbish C4.

No way should we copy the UK.

rlogue

watty wrote: »

My comment
http://www.techtir.ie/blog/loguey/reforming-rte#comments

Spot on Watty.

Sam Russell

I think that RTE NL should be merged with ESB Networks and Bord Gais Networks and be responsible for all the networks. They could then collect the TV licence, Gas bills and electicity bills on a single monthly bill. Save a lot of duplication.

RTE are currently pushing for a whole new studio complex in Montrose for HD, when all they need are a few cameras and a bit of playout hardware. What is all this nonsense of new studios all about. HD is about showing up all the lines on the faces of their fading, overpaid stars.

If UTV were given space on DTT, the TV3 would have to change their programming model. No loss there, as long as we do not get more of their pathetic attempts at edgey reporting/documentaries. They might even move up from their low-rent rubbish home produced programmes like Exposed.

The production values of some of the independent production companies is pretty poor and needs to be controlled. The 'kids with cameras' syndrome needs to be eliminated ["[I]What does this button do, daddy[/I]?"]

Most of RTE's engineering has gone. Most, if not all, the OB stuff has gone. Only the highly paid management and vastly overpaid 'STARS' remain. Their is a deep culture within RTE that needs a shift into modern times, but it needs a radical DG to drive it. I do not know in the next one will be that evangelical to acheive what is needed. He has little or no money to play with, a weak government to guide them, the next government may be divided and anyway will be preoccupied with other matters.

It all looks pretty bleak. Maybe RTE could be divided up into two or more smaller organisations to create a little competition. We need radical solutions.

rlogue

The lack of pace at RTE regarding HD is an excellent example of the poor quality of management at RTE.

Tubridy made a crack at the snails pace of adopting HD at Montrose on the Late Late last night - new studios are not needed - the existing ones can be adapted just like they were adapted from black and white to colour.

ftakeith

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that RTE NL should be merged with ESB Networks and Bord Gais Networks and be responsible for all the networks. They could then collect the TV licence, Gas bills and electicity bills on a single monthly bill. Save a lot of duplication.

RTE are currently pushing for a whole new studio complex in Montrose for HD, when all they need are a few cameras and a bit of playout hardware. What is all this nonsense of new studios all about. HD is about showing up all the lines on the faces of their fading, overpaid stars.

If UTV were given space on DTT, the TV3 would have to change their programming model. No loss there, as long as we do not get more of their pathetic attempts at edgey reporting/documentaries. They might even move up from their low-rent rubbish home produced programmes like Exposed.

The production values of some of the independent production companies is pretty poor and needs to be controlled. The 'kids with cameras' syndrome needs to be eliminated ["[I]What does this button do, daddy[/I]?"]

Most of RTE's engineering has gone. Most, if not all, the OB stuff has gone. Only the highly paid management and vastly overpaid 'STARS' remain. Their is a deep culture within RTE that needs a shift into modern times, but it needs a radical DG to drive it. I do not know in the next one will be that evangelical to acheive what is needed. He has little or no money to play with, a weak government to guide them, the next government may be divided and anyway will be preoccupied with other matters.

It all looks pretty bleak. Maybe RTE could be divided up into two or more smaller organisations to create a little competition. We need radical solutions.

RTE and irish tv have not produced a history of art tv programmes such as painting, sculpture and architecture
The view on rte1 does discuss art but only in small chunks around 11.15pm while bbc2/bbc4 show art programmes around 8pm/9pm

irish tv is mostly bland tv, culture programmes are treated very poorly
nationwide and capital d don't count all are just ads for items to buy or pay to visit

bbc/rte will be showing 'the story of ireland' in a few weeks but why has rte not shown again the earlier robert kee's ireland a television history or show their 1916 docu-drama from 1966 also

watty

rlogue wrote: »

The lack of pace at RTE regarding HD is an excellent example of the poor quality of management at RTE.

Tubridy made a crack at the snails pace of adopting HD at Montrose on the Late Late last night - new studios are not needed - the existing ones can be adapted just like they were adapted from black and white to colour.

The "new studios" thjing was an idea during the boom to cash in on valuable Donnybrook land. That will not happen now till market recovers.

You and I know that 1950s studios with a lick of paint and new equipment are fine.

Also if shooting for HD you should have a somewhat wider angle lens, not same lens and more detail. No-one wants to see a Newsreader magnified to 48"

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

No-one wants to see a Newsreader magnified to 48"

None of the News Readers are that short.:D

HD adds a lot to sport as the viewer can see as well as the commentator. In drama it adds sparkle but adds nothing to the acting. News in HD is just show, since the best or most recent footage could well be amateur phone shots taken in a poorly lit riot. The improvement that digital brings is enough for me at the moment, but HD rugby will be great.

The new studios are a complete waste, and not needed. Let us hope they drop the idea and concentrate on new content and in particular, new Irish content. I would like RTE to return to LIVE productions as much as possible on both radio and TV. They led the world with the Late-Late because it was a two and a half hour live programme. No-one else tried that.

They have done some good things in the past, let's hope they can do so again. Even without the new studios. And without their overpaid stars.

Capt'n Midnight

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that RTE NL should be merged with ESB Networks and Bord Gais Networks and be responsible for all the networks. They could then collect the TV licence, Gas bills and electicity bills on a single monthly bill. Save a lot of duplication

Lets take the verdigras off €ircom as well. Then we could have common ducts to all homes / businesses, there would be less messing around with digging up roads etc.

But EU competition laws would probably block this. ESB who were the third cheapest supplier in the EU hhad to raise prices and divest like crazy in a vain attempt to attract foreign competition that wasn't intererested in a market smaller than Birmingham, and yet €ircom are still allowed to have a monopoly AND exploit that monopoly :rolleyes:

I still think if a small fraction of the NRA budget was invested in providing broadband to homes we would have benefited far more. If we had fibre to the home nation wide we wouldn't even need to broadcast

Sam Russell

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Lets take the verdigras off €ircom as well. Then we could have common ducts to all homes / businesses, there would be less messing around with digging up roads etc.

But EU competition laws would probably block this. ESB who were the third cheapest supplier in the EU hhad to raise prices and divest like crazy in a vain attempt to attract foreign competition that wasn't intererested in a market smaller than Birmingham, and yet €ircom are still allowed to have a monopoly AND exploit that monopoly :rolleyes:

I still think if a small fraction of the NRA budget was invested in providing broadband to homes we would have benefited far more. If we had fibre to the home nation wide we wouldn't even need to broadcast

Agree absolutely. The fixed lines of Eircom should be bought back to the networks enterprise of the state. Fibre to the home would be a good solution, and at the moment, UPC are trying to get fibre-to-the-cabinet which is a start.

We have a government that is leaderless, rudderless, and has already hit the rocks. We have no real enterprise within the state, no credit for any enterprise that does exist, with much of the Irish commerce given over to foreign large multinationals. (Well, they are not really multinationals, they are just foreign, based in the UK or Germany!) But that is off topic, and political.

RTE needs new blood and new direction. It is getting a new DG shortly. Let us hope it is not more of the same.

watty

The new DG though is actually an RTE insider that only left briefly.

eircom is irrelevant as copper is obsolete. It's only the cabinet in your street and the pair fo wires from that to your house that's important. (That can do 30Mbps minimum, 100Mbps average, 200Mbps max using FTTC, compared to 1mbps to 20Mbps, with 7Mbps average for line from house to exchange)

Sam Russell

eircom is relevant in that they have been allowed to charge the highest line rental in Europe.

If there was a new networks semi-state formed by amalamating RTE NL, BG Networks, ESB Networks, and Eirgrid, that enterprise could build the new FTH network that would render the copper network totaly redundant. Unfortunately, we have little or no cash to build it.

Mike 1972

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Short answer, TG4 does a lot of what you want already. It would be far cheaper to get them to do other stuff.

RTE are probably beyond reform at this stage.

Solution. Take the licence money off RTE (if it means they do to the wall so be it) give it to TG4 on condition that they agree to set up a second channel (TE1 ?) for English speakers and watch them produce some actual public service broadcasting on a fraction of the budget.

Kensington

loguer wrote:

Unlike nearly every other European broadcaster, RTE control all aspects of the transmission of their programmes. RTE own their studios. RTE produce most of their programmes. RTE transmit those programmes and it's RTE who decides what platforms those programmes are transmitted on.

RTÉ don't necessarily decide that. It makes sense to them to be as available as absolutely possible! They make their content on an "its-there-if-you-want-it" basis. That is, you can use it but all costs are on you in getting it from them on to your platform. Sky are perfect example.

loguer wrote: »

it was RTE who decided that Ireland's digital radio service would only carry channels that RTE approved. Many Irish people would like to listen to BBC Radio 5 Live or BBC Radio 2 on Digital Radio in Ireland. RTE decided that they would not like any BBC services on DAB so instead there is a mix of RTE operated stations that have low listenership figures.

That decision was nothing to do with RTÉ.
BBC UK are charged with TV & Radio within the confines of the United Kingdom, basically to areas which pay a UK television licence. It is not within their remit, and so is of no interest to BBC UK, in supplying content outside of its remit area.

Content from the BBC outside of the UK is handled by BBC Worldwide but - here's the thing - on a commercial basis. Basically, you want to carry BBC services on a platform outside of the UK, you pay royalties for doing so. Then you have to factor in the cost of a mux, electricity, headend equipment.

Question here of course is, who pays for this?
BBC won't. They want to be paid!
RTÉ won't. Should the ROI licence fee pay for a foreign interest?
RTÉ NL can't. (Why should TV3, TodayFM have to pay for transmission when BBC gets a free ride?)

loguer wrote:

The commercial sector have also stayed well away from DAB and so it seems to me at least that DAB will eventually fail. A mix of redundant technology and a poor choice of stations means that anyone buying a DAB radio in Ireland would be better off spending that money on an Internet radio to get an almost unlimited choice that RTE cannot restrict.

I agree entirely with you DAB is a poor choice and not the way forward. DAB+ is available with far better codecs offering higher perceptible quality at far lower bitrates. I find 128Kbps MP2 annoying and a step back on the pretty strong FM signal that exists over most of Dublin city and country.

As far as I know, we still do not have a proper licencing process by ComReg/BAI for digital broadcasting (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Why are stations going to go to trouble to essentially duplicate their FM service particularly since FM listenership is still extremely high, quite reliable in most cities (no more unreliable than DAB I would imagine), all for essentially no return on what would be a substantial investment? The UK were offering extensions to the FM licences in taking up a DAB one.

Also, it doesn't take up anywhere near as much spectrum as TV so no incentive to sell it off as is the case with TV.

loguer wrote:

On the television side, RTE are slowly rolling out digital terrestrial TV in the form of Saorview. Thanks to the shrewd tactics of RTE NL there will be no pay TV or UK TV on Irish Digital terrestrial. Just like the botched DAB rollout, RTE NL are ensuring there is no TV other than their own on Irish Digital TV.

UKTV won't be available free under present circumstances for the same reason as radio - who should pay for it?

It'd make a hell of a lot of sense to RTÉ NL to get as much external content on the platform as possible - it makes them money! They've a massive investment made which they need to recoup. They can't afford to be turning down income.

Boxer pulled out - possibly seeing pay TV wouldn't work.
One Vision didn't want to pay the going rates.
UPC and RTÉ themselves decided not to go ahead either.

If RTÉ were hellbent on denying external access they'd have just gone ahead with their third place DTT offer and effectively run it into the ground, would they not? That way, UPC doesn't have another competitor to contend with and RTÉ keeps the platform free of external content.

loguer wrote:

So what is to be done?

I'd like to see RTÉ One and RTÉ Radio 1 stripped of all and any commercial interest or influence - no ads, no sponsorship - and turned into the main News, Current Affairs and PSB outlet. Give us true hard hitting investigation ala Watchdog, Panorama, Rogue Traders over on the BBC.

An RTÉ News 24 channel, ideally live around the clock, but at the very least, live 6am-12midnight with looped or repeated news and current affairs bulletins outside of these hours or even EuroNews. This channel at the very least should be made available FTA across Europe.

RTÉ Two and RTÉ 2fm (and spinoffs) left as the general entertainment and sport outlets funded primarily, if not completely, via advertisements and sponsorship.

An RTÉ international channel, ideally FTA on 19.2E, possibly on payTV on both 13E and 19.2E. All of the news and current affairs programming interspersed with homegrown entertainment programming. You could nearly offer RTÉ One as is, just substitute in content where rights issues do crop up (US imports, sport etc.) If RTÉ News 24 comes about, then this too. Little additional manpower required, maybe one person looking after opt-out scheduling.

Switch to DAB+. Roll out coverage countrywide. Begin to raise the profile of the digital stations and let people know that they're there. Begin promoting them, selling airtime, sponsorship etc.

I don't know if I would sell off RTÉ NL. BBC sold off their networks and now DTT and DAB over there is full of shopping and BabeStation style TV channels all compressed into a blocky mess over a few multiplexes and low bitrate MP2 mono (mono?!) music stations. Do we want the same thing happening here?

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

eircom is relevant in that they have been allowed to charge the highest line rental in Europe.

Unfortunately, we have little or no cash to build it.

If eircom is bypassed, their line rental is moot.

FTTH/FFTC for EVERY premises in Ireland is about €1.5Billion. About same price as a non-broadband Mobile LTE rollout and cheaper than Metro North.

We do have the money. Just Government has not the will.

watty

Kensington wrote: »

That decision was nothing to do with RTÉ.
BBC UK are charged with TV & Radio within the confines of the United Kingdom, basically to areas which pay a UK television licence. It is not within their remit, and so is of no interest to BBC UK, in supplying content outside of its remit area.

Partially true. RTE Upper Management don't want BBC on DAB. The RTE people involved in DAB thought it a good idea to push adoption. The royalty cost is low, main issue is the electricity.

Kensington wrote: »

Content from the BBC outside of the UK is handled by BBC Worldwide but - here's the thing - on a commercial basis. Basically, you want to carry BBC services on a platform outside of the UK, you pay royalties for doing so. Then you have to factor in the cost of a mux, electricity, headend equipment.

Question here of course is, who pays for this?
BBC won't. They want to be paid!
RTÉ won't. Should the ROI licence fee pay for a foreign interest?
RTÉ NL can't. (Why should TV3, TodayFM have to pay for transmission when BBC gets a free ride?)

All true and explained before in relation to DTT.

Kensington wrote: »

I agree entirely with you DAB is a poor choice and not the way forward. DAB+ is available with far better codecs offering higher perceptible quality at far lower bitrates. I find 128Kbps MP2 annoying and a step back on the pretty strong FM signal that exists over most of Dublin city and country.

256K MP2 / 128K AAC is a minimum. But I bet if they used AAC that bit rate would be 64K to 96k to fit more station.s

Kensington wrote: »

As far as I know, we still do not have a proper licencing process by ComReg/BAI for digital broadcasting (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Why are stations going to go to trouble to essentially duplicate their FM service particularly since FM listenership is still extremely high, quite reliable in most cities (no more unreliable than DAB I would imagine), all for essentially no return on what would be a substantial investment? The UK were offering extensions to the FM licences in taking up a DAB one.

Also, it doesn't take up anywhere near as much spectrum as TV so no incentive to sell it off as is the case with TV.

Digital TV adds HD, WS and about x8 SD stations at top quality in same spectrum. DAB gives nothing.

If DAB was same quality as FM then you would have 1/2 as many stations in a Multiplex. Also UK has too few DAB multiplexes.

If it was "simply" a case of having more content you could add 20 MHz for FM Radio in band III and have a small adaptor for existing FM radios with a switch to swap band (about €5) and thus twice the channels. But DAB is not saving spectrum as the FM stations have to be duplicated and realistically can't be turned off. DAB is ideological not sensible. It was too early and not thought through.

It can't in reality offer anything extra for listener except more stations (no shortage of those) and much poorer battery life. I have a €2 FM radio that sounds better than DAB.

Kensington wrote: »

UKTV won't be available free under present circumstances for the same reason as radio - who should pay for it?

RTE told Oireachtas committee that people should use Freesat!

Kensington wrote: »

It'd make a hell of a lot of sense to RTÉ NL to get as much external content on the platform as possible - it makes them money! They've a massive investment made which they need to recoup. They can't afford to be turning down income.

Boxer pulled out - possibly seeing pay TV wouldn't work.
One Vision didn't want to pay the going rates.
UPC and RTÉ themselves decided not to go ahead either.

Pay TV on DTT will never "work" in Ireland. Only Stations prepared to pay RTE NL wholesale carriage and be FTA will work.
RTE NL needs to be truly separate from RTE and have at least four Multiplex so as to have space to rent per channel.

Kensington wrote: »

If RTÉ were hellbent on denying external access they'd have just gone ahead with their third place DTT offer and effectively run it into the ground, would they not? That way, UPC doesn't have another competitor to contend with and RTÉ keeps the platform free of external content.

They don't want BBC radio on DAB. But DTT they don't care because 80% already have UK television on PayTV and many have it FTA via Freeview and Freesat. (10%? 15%?)

Kensington wrote: »

I'd like to see RTÉ One and RTÉ Radio 1 stripped of all and any commercial interest or influence - no ads, no sponsorship - and turned into the main News, Current Affairs and PSB outlet. Give us true hard hitting investigation ala Watchdog, Panorama, Rogue Traders over on the BBC.

Agreed http://www.techtir.ie/blog/loguey/reforming-rte#comments
But I'd go further.

Kensington wrote: »

An RTÉ News 24 channel, ideally live around the clock, but at the very least, live 6am-12midnight with looped or repeated news and current affairs bulletins outside of these hours or even EuroNews. This channel at the very least should be made available FTA across Europe.

I don't know if I would sell off RTÉ NL. BBC sold off their networks and now DTT and DAB over there is full of shopping and BabeStation style TV channels all compressed into a blocky mess over a few multiplexes and low bitrate MP2 mono (mono?!) music stations. Do we want the same thing happening here?

No, eircom infrastructure should not have been sold. It has been asset stripped and eircom increase in debt by leveraged buyouts would pay for TWO FTTH neworks!
ESB Networks, RTE NL, eNet etc need to remain in State control, but properly and transparently run. Not run like CIE or Aerlingus or eircom before privatisation.

Capt'n Midnight

watty wrote: »

If eircom is bypassed, their line rental is moot.

FTTH/FFTC for EVERY premises in Ireland is about €1.5Billion. About same price as a non-broadband Mobile LTE rollout and cheaper than Metro North.

We do have the money. Just Government has not the will.

It's about the same cost as the buying out the M50 toll bridge and Western corridor

We've spent more on the M50
We've spent more on the Luas

FTTH would probably take as much traffic off our roads as we spend on roads for people who could other wise telecommute , had this been in place then how much would we have saved on lost economic production during the bad weather spells in 2010 (Jan and Dec ? )

Better roads save a few minutes on trips down the country, telecommuting saves hours, and attracts more foreign investment.


Problem is that our politicians looked to the past, land and property instead to the future when planning infrastructure. Our most valuable exports are profits, software , silicon and pharma none of which needs big roads.

watty

They have more friends that build stuff and Farm and own land than they Think they might have putting in Fibre and enabling world class IT.

MACHEAD

watty wrote: »

They have more friends that build stuff and Farm and own land than they Think they might have putting in Fibre and enabling world class IT.

Now you've nailled it Watty. The 'Big tent' and brown envelope culture will unfortunately take quite a while to go away. It's become so deeply ingrained in the socioeconomic culture, that one could ask will it actually go away at all, unless someone somewhere along the line has the courage to impliment such change.

Sam Russell

RTE will remain as it is unless the vested interests are stopped from having all their past influences.

Elmo

loguer wrote: »

For the last 50 years RTE television has been widely regarded as the cultural heart of the nation. Most Irish people will readily tell you of their favourite moments on Irish television and for most of those 50 years - even since TV3 have been around - those moments have come from RTE television.

Your first statement (like many) is specifically about RTÉ Television. As a cultural heart of the nation I don't think TV covers that and it would be sad if any TV station was the cultural heart. RTÉ isn't just about TV and like many their is far too much focus on RTÉ Television while forgetting about RTÉ NL, RTÉ Radio, RTÉ Performing Groups and RTÉ Publishing.

RTE is indeed an institution of Irish life. But like many Irish institutions it has become so certain of itself and so secure in its own sense of its own destiny that it somehow regards itself as immune to criticism and determined at all costs to preserve its dominant role in Irish broadcasting.

Not that the competition has been much of a threat. TV3 have consistently disappointed in terms of their impact on Irish cultural life. Who needs UTV with Dublin branding? Yet that is why instead of threatening RTE's existence, TV3 actually have bolstered RTE's dominant position in Irish broadcasting.

RTÉ from what I gather have never had this institutional issue. FF don't like RTÉ often they think RTÉ is being far too hard on them which is strange as you point out many feel they are too soft on FF. RTÉ over the years have been bullied by successive government, in the 1980s they were forced to sell much of Cablelink to Telecom Eireann, they were then forced to buy Ardmore Studios at no benefit to them and in the 1990s told to sell of their share of cablelink when they wanted to continue to be part of that company. Burke put a licence fee freeze on them for many years causing Ireland to have the lowest Licence fee in Europe including Eastern Europe and yet we expect them to be the BBC. And then he took a back hander from Centry Radio and told RTÉ to reduce their transmission fees. The list is endless you can see why RTÉ are afraid of FF.

We are now in TV broadcasting advertising duopoly with between TV3 and RTÉ. But TV3 as you point out have failed on so many occasions. But again this is a focus on TV and forgets Radio.

Unlike nearly every other European broadcaster, RTE control all aspects of the transmission of their programmes. RTE own their studios. RTE produce most of their programmes. RTE transmit those programmes and it's RTE who decides what platforms those programmes are transmitted on.

I believe that RTÉ did try to sell the network in the mid-2000s. The BAI then try to get a commercial group to role out pay TV on that network. Many broadcaster own their own studios. RTÉ is required by law to provide a certain amount of independent production each year which they meet and which they have always over commissioned in terms of hours. TV3's only requirement in this area is that they have to provide 15% of their home produced budget towards indo producers in recent years they have done that and increased that. TG4 is modeled on Channel 4 and S4C, mainly indo productions.

This rather unique aspect of how RTE operates its television and radio services means that on the radio side it was RTE who decided that Ireland's digital radio service would only carry channels that RTE approved. Many Irish people would like to listen to BBC Radio 5 Live or BBC Radio 2 on Digital Radio in Ireland. RTE decided that they would not like any BBC services on DAB so instead there is a mix of RTE operated stations that have low listenership figures. The commercial sector have also stayed well away from DAB and so it seems to me at least that DAB will eventually fail. A mix of redundant technology and a poor choice of stations means that anyone buying a DAB radio in Ireland would be better off spending that money on an Internet radio to get an almost unlimited choice that RTE cannot restrict.

I am not sure how RTÉ Digital Radio came about the channel could just be defacto due to the original trial of the service. RTÉ is now regulated by the BAI and any new channels must be investigated by the BAI and from the Dept through a public consultation which is then decided upon by the Minister. Will the BBC pay to be on DAB? Even Communicorp and the commercial channels have refused to go on RTÉs DAB service. It is good to see some innovation coming from the private sector in the south east. But RTÉ have been left on their own, and you can't blame RTÉ for that.

On the television side, RTE are slowly rolling out digital terrestrial TV in the form of Saorview. Thanks to the shrewd tactics of RTE NL there will be no pay TV or UK TV on Irish Digital terrestrial. Just like the botched DAB rollout, RTE NL are ensuring there is no TV other than their own on Irish Digital TV.

This is bull****. That Boxer and One Vision were unwilling to pay a bond that RTÉ NL demanded. Boxer and One Vision just weren't viable Pay DTT isn't viable with the kind of channels they suggested. Again RTÉ have spent millions on this role out and should expect some kind of return why should commercial entities piggy back on public funds?

As I have said I want to see more Irish TV channels on the air RTÉ's small set will be a good addition but time was wasted on discussing the channels with the department.

TV3, 3E and TG4 aren't paying to be on the DTT service at the moment. The IFB channel and OTV could be run by TnaG and TnaG should be given a commercial service to run. While TV3 should submit plans of their own for a new service while a new licence round should include new Irish Terrestrial commercial services for DTT on the commercial muxes. This could include a licence for NITV to support the governments MOU. This would bring back the some of the 60million heading to English TV services.

The duopoly in the Irish market between RTÉ and TV3 needs to be broken.

RTE News and Current Affairs produces professional output across radio and television and thousands of Irish people depend on RTE for their news daily. But how independent of the governmment or specifically the Fianna Fail party is the RTE newsroom? Witness the gutless climbdown from RTE over the Brian Cowen cartoons in the National Gallery and the Royal Irish Academy - it was shown that all the government press secretary had to do was phone Montrose and not only did RTE offer up a grovelling apology for the clip but they also removed it from their website. Well known presenters like Ryan Tubridy and Miriam O'Callaghan have known links with the Fianna Fail party. Did Bryan Dobson give Cowen a well deserved grilling on the Six-One news? Of course not. Why did RTE pull the plug on Vincent Browne at a government press conference? Fear of giving a TV3 journalist airtime on RTE? Or fear of displeasing their political masters if Browne asked the questions of Fianna Fail that their own journalists would not dare to?

What is Miriam's connection? They need Una O'Hagan to do the politcal interview I always think that FF think the are going to get an easy time with newsreaders (they do) but Una seems to take it easy and then just pushes them some how. She needs to do it more.

As for TV3 I thought it was funny that they went all out to say how their St. Stephen's Day 2009 News was schedule as normal even though it was clearly not and that they had a remit to report on Lenihan's illness and yet St. Stephen's Day 2010 arrives and they have their normal 5min news bulletin on a Sunday night (Saturday night also only has a 5min news bulletin) and yet they didn't show any other press conferences that RTÉ were broadcasting during the more important issues of the Economic Crisis.

Why is it that nearly 30 years after most European countries started TV news bulletins that RTE is totally incapable of providing a news programme on TV in the morning?

Ahhhh I don't think RTÉ TV should have a morning show. Why because Prime Time TV is far more important.

One of the reasons for this is that RTE is one of the most notorious closed shops in the country. RTE will claim it is the trade unions in RTE but when was the last time anyone reading this got a job in RTE by answering an advertisement in the press? The chances are if you are working in RTE you will have got in there because you know or are related to someone working in there already. It strikes me that when RTE do recruit from outside, the furthest they go is over the bridge from Montrose to Belfield to see what talent they can quietly gather up in UCD. It makes for a very insular organisation - and I for one would love to see statistics published to see exactly who is related to who working in RTE.
Not for nothing is RTE regarded as one of the most nepotistic organisations in Ireland.

This is bull****, but there is a post somewhere from a former RTÉ employee that proves that, I have seen jobs for RTÉ in newspapers etc. and heard of people getting jobs with out relations.

Ireland is a nation of emigrators; we have one of the biggest diasporas in the world yet it is impossible to watch Irish television unless the RTE player is used. Internet TV fills a gap but anyone who uses it will tell you that the picture quality is poor compared to broadcast TV.

When a serious attempt of broadcasting to the diaspora in the shape of TARA television was made; RTE ensured that TARA was shut down. RTE are yet to replace it but if they had some imagination the diaspora could pay their way and watch the full complement of Irish TV instead of resorting to back door Sky subscriptions.

So what is to be done?

Who's going to pay for "Diaspora TV" when they have to pay for DAB and DTT and most importantly programming.

RTE needs to be reformed. RTE, or the bodies that could replace it must provide the Irish people as a whole the following:

1: A full and comprehensive news service entirely independent of government and political interference.

1: Totally agree one of the main reasons for the licence fee is to keep it away from political interference but as we have seen Ray Burke and ministers can freeze or do as they please with it. Obviously a freeze is necessary at the moment, however they now have to give 6.6 million to TG4 plus the 7% to the BAI.

2: A genuinely Irish programming experience that does not rely on imports.

2: Imports will alway be a factor in Irish TV regardless this is due to their cheapness 1hr of Irish programming cost 100,000 while 1hr of US programming cost 2000.

3: A publisher-broadcaster that is not top heavy with staffers and instead commissions programmes from independent producers.

3: RTÉ has a large IPU most of its shows outside of News and Current Affairs are produced by independent producers. Indeed TG4 is run in such a fashion.

4: Rather than building RTE owned and operated studios the studios division should be sold off. A publisher-broadcaster does not need the vast studio premises that RTE have in Donnybrook.

4: Who's going to buy it. I would have agree in the Celtic tiger years but as we have seen that is just a bad mistake. But my view would have been for decentralization of the service to another county

5: For too long Irish television has been our best-kept secret. At a minimum there should be one Irish originated television channel made available free to air worldwide to connect to our diaspora and beyond. At the same time we have got valuable content across all Irish channels and these channels should be made available worldwide for a subscription equivalent to the full Irish TV licence.

5: It would be easier to sell rights to programming. To get on any cable network is difficult to ask them to put a premium on it wouldn't get you there. There are other rights factors to contend with in particular music rights

6: RTE maintain a vast archive dating back to 1926 and earlier. This priceless national resource should be owned by a seperate body, similar in principle to the French INA. These archives should be digitised and made available on the Internet for all, not just a few privileged academics and RTE insiders.

6: Yes I think many of these could be placed on RTÉ Player but again is a major cost hence why RTÉ charge for archive digitalization

7: RTE NL should not be owned by RTE. The RTE NL organisation should be spun off into a seperate Semi-State and kept in public hands. The transmission network must be broadcaster-neutral. Decisons made on what channels appear on any platform should be made on the basis of that channels willingness to be on the platform. In addition there should be an open door to any TV platform to provide Irish channels. The Saorview and Saorsat platforms themselves would be controlled by this seperate Semi-State, not RTE.

7: Sky shouldn't own their network either, no content provider should. Yes RTÉ NL should remain a semi state and be moved from RTÉ. One of the main reasons for having RTÉ NL was to separate it out from the main organisation, I expect that the network will have a new company running it.

In conclusion, the existing structures through which RTE is managed were created over 50 years ago at a time when the technology was very different and the expectations of what could and should be provided by our national broadcaster were very different.

Times are different now and while RTE have served us well over the last 50 years we now need a newer, more agile organisation to serve us the viewers and listeners. We need to preserve what is good about RTE, and there is much that is good about it.

But we can no longer afford the bureaucracy, the nepotism and the desire to strangle innovation.

We need a new RTE

Many on here would disagree that RTÉ has strangled innovation I am not a techie but I think PAL-I originated from RTÉ. They have also got pressure from outside not to be involved in online activate or mobile broadcasting etc.

Do we need a new RTÉ? From a broadcast point of view we need sweeping changes but not just to RTÉ. But we also need to realise that RTÉ isn't just about broadcasting and that it isn't just about TV and that it will never be the BBC.

watty

I don't agree with all of that, but it's one of your better (best?) posts and many truths in it.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

I don't agree with all of that, but it's one of your better (best?) posts and many truths in it.

Best Irish compliment I have been give in a while

lawhec

Many on here would disagree that RTÉ has strangled innovation I am not a techie but I think PAL-I originated from RTÉ.

System I was first used by RTÉ (approx two years before BBC2) but it was launched in B&W as a 625 line service. Colour came later. System I was chosen AFAIK because of the recommendations in the UK Government's Pilkington Committee report and the view of aligning similar broadcasting systems together, except of course that the UK has never formally broadcast System I on VHF, only UHF.

watty

It was really a small variation of Telefunken / BBC PAL development. Basically the choice to have sound at 6.0MHz. Some other differences. RTE used it first.
BBC also responsible for most of Teletext, NiCam and closely involved with DVB-T and MHEG5

RTE did do trials of DVB-T with DVB-RCT for reverse interactive channel, but The main Israeli WiMax company (Runcom?) did all the development.

Technically in the past I don't think RTE ever developed anything, just an early adopter in some cases. (Over 12 years late to Analogue TV and 10 years late to DTT means you get to be one of the earlier adopters of 2nd Generation systems. 625 vs 405 or 441 and MPEG4 vs MPEG2).

CDfm

I have seen it posted that RTE's current affairs coverage is excellent & IMHO it is not.

It is Red Top and populist to the point of being misleading.

It does sports well.

I am saddened that it has been allowed re-establish its monopoly with digital and while not a fan of TARA surely in its public broadcasting remit it had some moral obligation.

watty

They don't have a Monopoly on Digital!
RTE NL has to charge market rates for carriage and anyone with money and BAI approval can add to the Saorview Platform till capacity is used up. If there was a queue of channels looking for FTA carriage, BAI/Comreg would really have to consider releasing one of the four unused Pay DTT Multiplex allocations.

Non-RTE TV Channels on Digital:

• TG4
• TV3
• 3e
• (Oireachtas Reports - Government to fund)
• (Film Channel - IFB to fund)
• (Outline Proposal for a Kerry TV)

Non-RTE TV Channels on Analogue:

• TG4
• TV3

RTE TV Channels on Digital:

• RTE 1
• RTE 2
• RTE News Now
• RTE temp 2 later Time Shared ("RTE junior"/RTE+ RTE+ will be mostly time shifted RTE2 and RTE1 content)

RTE TV Channels on Analogue:

• RTE 1
• RTE 2

RTE2 will be HD first. Later RTE1, TV3 and TG4 will migrate to HD.

Saorview Digital Terrestrial is simply a replacement for Analogue. Any additional channels would be payTV. In over 10 years of the payTV licence being available, no-one has signed a contract. Terrestrial PayTV can't compete with UPC/Sky in Ireland. Terrestrial pay DTT can't compete with Freesat, which is over 40 decent channels free, inc HD BBC, ITV and soon C4 FTA. Freesat is free.

Tara TV was 20% owned by RTE and 80% by what is now UPC. There were unanswered questions as to why it left Satellite just as the secret deal for Sky to carry RTE, TV3 and TG4 was concluded. It had no PSB Mandate. The Proposed RTE International IMO should be run by TG4 or a new Overseas PSB consortium with TG4, TV3 and RTE involved. In reality RTE International isn't going to happen without funding from somewhere.

CDfm

Ah Watty, its one of those things.

I am probably one of a growing number of people who do not watch RTE ,probably with the exception of Sport, where they do punch above their weight on TV - on Radio Newstalk is streets ahead.

It has had some brilliant broadcasters and programme makers throughout the years.

Cathal O'Shannon on documentaries is legendary. Frank Hall . Wesley Burroughs was internationally renowned on soap opera writing and production. The Radharc did artisans and heritage exceptionally well. Wanderley Wagon had the genius of Eugene Lambert.

I am not and never have been a Gay Byrne fan but he was an excellent broadcaster and by all accounts is doing a very good job at the Road Safety Authority. And it was obvious to anyone that the man had transferable skills.

Elmo

CDfm:

The problem with Digital has not be that RTÉ have been allowed (or that RTÉ are trying) to hold on to their monopoly it is the problem of the Independent broadcasters to basically ignore the new medium.

The bond issue which has been discussed at length here on boards was not a problem with RTÉ but with the respective commercial consortia.

Easy TV was prob never going to be let happen with UPC monopoly and problems surrounding its takeover of NTL Ireland. Also UPC possibly didn't want to be in competition with itself and RTÉ has taken the view that FTA Satellite along with Saorsat can be a competitor to both Sky and UPC.

Bar the southeast no other commercial company has invested into DAB. The fact that Newstalk and Today FM are not available on RTÉ's DAB service is an issue for Communicorp not RTÉ. I don't think RTÉ would have an issue placing them on either Saorview or their DAB service.

As for Newstalk Moncrief and Dunne put me off and the Feminist out there will never complain that there are very few Women presenters on Newstalk. :rolleyes:

As for RTÉ being tabloid, I only see that with their Crime Correspondent but I feel unfortunately Crime often leads to Red Top reporting. RTÉ News is generally just information, while its Current Affairs can push the boat out at times with programmes like Prime Time Investigates. IMO the Frontline is a disappointing replacement for Q&A, Pat Kenny is much better than this show IMO.

But again we seem to all think that RTÉ is just about News and Current Affairs. Radio 1 is a mixed genre radio service and I see no problem with that.

CDfm

That is fine Elmo and it really does not bother me.

But the RTE legacy goes back to when it was part of the old Department of Posts and Telegraphs and controlling all broadcasting. In marketing, it has managed to get control of distribution. This is wrong.

On its mixed media - it does manage to enter markets that others identify for a big buck and is not afraid to throw its weight about to crowd others out. Very similar to Dublin Bus trying to take over the Swords Express Route.

On economics (my area of qualification) & government ( as opposed to politics which is about winning elections) its coverage on issues is so poor that it is awful.

So if Political is Red Top and partisan -then I guess that joins crime. Joe Duffy ...if Jerry Springer did radio it would sound like this.

It is sad in a way, because, in the past it was a great program maker and now it excels at the mediocre. (I sound like Eamonn Dunphy )

watty

The Governement decided around 2000 ... 2001 to make the distribution separate and sell it off. No one wants to buy.

eircom infrastructure should have been kept. RTE NL, eNet, ESB fibre & Masts etc should be part of one Semi State National Resource.

CDfm

watty wrote: »

The Governement decided around 2000 ... 2001 to make the distribution separate and sell it off. No one wants to buy.

eircom infrastructure should have been kept. RTE NL, eNet, ESB fibre & Masts etc should be part of one Semi State National Resource.

that would be an ecunimical matter and who know what type of conditions there were

i am sure if the donnybrook site was turned into a broadcasting campus available for all operators a bit like the DAA (dublin airport authority) then it would be a different propostion

god knows -the site is big enough

jimmycrackcorm

Rte should be broken up to become an independent station. The licence fee should be held by an independent authority who would then use it to pay for Irish made programming that could be resold to any of the independent stations. Programs would then have to be tendered for in terms of quality and cost.

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

that would be an ecunimical matter and who know what type of conditions there were

i am sure if the donnybrook site was turned into a broadcasting campus available for all operators a bit like the DAA (dublin airport authority) then it would be a different propostion

god knows -the site is big enough

There is nothing really stopping TV3 or TG4 from using RTÉ Studios. As long as they are willing to pay for their use of it. ITV use BBC studios and BBC use ITV, I don't know how often, but it has been done.

But the RTE legacy goes back to when it was part of the old Department of Posts and Telegraphs and controlling all broadcasting. In marketing, it has managed to get control of distribution. This is wrong.

On its mixed media - it does manage to enter markets that others identify for a big buck and is not afraid to throw its weight about to crowd others out. Very similar to Dublin Bus trying to take over the Swords Express Route.

RTÉ happen to own the network. IMO the distancing of RTÉ from the Network has been a good thing, but any attempt to sell it off for a quick buck (as with Cablelink and Eircom) does not take into consideration the future. The Network should be separate for many reasons, one being the need to invest in programming. However from what I gather RTÉ 1 and 2 pay far more for the use of the network than either TV3 or TG4, should it become separate I believe that TV3 and TG4 maybe faced to pay more. (This is going on RTÉ Annual report in relation to transmission costs and RTÉ NL's pricing list).

However the Network should not be sold rather as pointed out it should be a semi-state body.

I think that it is funny that RTÉ's competition pedal out this idea that RTÉ imposes itself in areas of highly commercial areas. There is nothing stopping TV3 being more competitive it can use its audience share and additional advertising revenue to retain its 15% audience share right through out the year not just during the X-Factor. But it is a case of having to invest money to create significant programming, TV3 need to look at what TG4 are doing but they just need to do it in English.

Look at the innovation that TodayFM did with The Last Word, they just need to do more of this, which they can do through NewsTalk and TodayFM.

In terms of Radio Communicorp are just as monopolistic. They hold the 2 national radio licences, 2 local Dublin services and one Regional service, while UTV have 6 local radio services. The fact that none of these channels are available on DAB is an issue with both companies.

Also don't Local radio stations own their own networks in most cases?

I don't think Newstalk is on the RTÉ Network.

As I said their needs to be sweeping changes to broadcasting not just from RTÉ. I am sure if I suggested RTÉ Local Radio services it would go down like a lead balloon.

Sam Russell

From what I have noticed, the indepentant producers are not uniform in the quality of there programmes. Particularly there production values. The basic ability to do post-production edits so that a good quality film results is beyond most of them. Their productions are full of jumping zooms, massive fast camera swings that would make the viewer dizzy. It is all very juvenile.

RTE should return to what they were very good at - live television. The Late, Late was a beacon, as one of the longest live broadcasts (over 2 hours), running for the longest number of years. It has been reduced to 'Saturday Live' with a procession of 'Z' list celebs in to push their latest opus. Poor TV and poor entertainment. More recently it has turned into the RTE self publicity show, pushing poor shows due to start next week.

The new DG should look araound to see what he can do with no money, perhaps good ideas may make up the difference.

TG4 does a better job on considerably less money. TV3 does an appalling job, on even less money (spent on programmes, they report good profits).

newbie2

Elmo wrote: »

There is nothing really stopping TV3 or TG4 from using RTÉ Studios. As long as they are willing to pay for their use of it. ITV use BBC studios and BBC use ITV, I don't know how often, but it has been done.

TV3, TG4, BBC and UTV have all used studios on the RTÉ campus. The TV facilities IBD of RTÉ is available for anybody who wishes to pay for it.

@OP

There's a lot of rubbish in your post which Elmo has already corrected. In future maybe you should post a rant in AH as opposed to here./

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

TG4 does a better job on considerably less money. TV3 does an appalling job, on even less money (spent on programmes, they report good profits).

TV3 has more money than TG4. It just spends most of it on Imports and Sporting right (even though they have less sporting rights than TG4).

@Newbie2

I think that is a bit unfair on the OP. I think it is a good discussion which does not rely on overt RTÉ bashing but sets out some issues that could be over come by the Company.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

There is nothing really stopping TV3 or TG4 from using RTÉ Studios. As long as they are willing to pay for their use of it. ITV use BBC studios and BBC use ITV, I don't know how often, but it has been done.

If there ever was a location that lend itself to doing TV production like a Movie Studio lot for Europe -it is the one.

It lacks vision.

. The Network should be separate for many reasons, one being the need to invest in programming. However from what I gather RTÉ 1 and 2 pay far more for the use of the network than either TV3 or TG4, should it become separate I believe that TV3 and TG4 maybe faced to pay more. (This is going on RTÉ Annual report in relation to transmission costs and RTÉ NL's pricing list).

Ah but , RTE paying RTE is a bit like a publican buying pints in his own pub. It is illusory.

The RTE site is flipping huge.

However the Network should not be sold rather as pointed out it should be a semi-state body.

I agree

Look at the innovation that TodayFM did with The Last Word, they just need to do more of this, which they can do through NewsTalk and TodayFM.

They did and in a small market like Ireland the independents should get protection to allow them innovate.
.

As I said their needs to be sweeping changes to broadcasting not just from RTÉ. I am sure if I suggested RTÉ Local Radio services it would go down like a lead balloon

.

Absolutely :pac:

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

If there ever was a location that lend itself to doing TV production like a Movie Studio lot for Europe -it is the one.

It lacks vision.:

Tell that to the German Ambassador. http://www.rte.ie/about/project2025/

They did and in a small market like Ireland the independents should get protection to allow them innovate.

But they must also prove that they are being innovative, most locals have just sat back with little vision to their programming schedules.

CDfm

Elmo wrote: »

Tell that to the German Ambassador. http://www.rte.ie/about/project2025/

But they should already be there, the point is that they have gone backwards.

But they must also prove that they are being innovative,

Well you don't have to be innovative to be good. Not a Daniel O'Donnell fan but when he had his TV show he did get good guests like Luka Bloom on and put on a reasonable show.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0423634/

If they can't produce a Wanderly Wagon then I think they are not at the races.

most locals have just sat back with little vision to their programming schedules.

I would make Joe Duffy the Irish Jeremy Kyle/ Jerry Springer just for the hell of it. He attracts that kind of guest

loguer

newbie2 wrote: »

@OP

There's a lot of rubbish in your post which Elmo has already corrected. In future maybe you should post a rant in AH as opposed to here./

I won't take instructions from anyone. By all means debate what I've said as Elmo and others have so if you want to argue the toss go right ahead and do so. Simply posting a "yeah, what he said" style post isn't just lazy, it's plain stupid.

You might find it helps to develop your brain

loguer

Project 2025 strikes me at least as pointless and a key indicator at how RTÉ aren't living in the real world...

RTÉ state that Project 2025 is there to make them ready for HD, but RTÉ converted the existing Television centre to colour over a five year period from 1971 to 1976. They could do the same with HD. The new payout facilities already support HD afaik and will need to do so before RTE Two HD launches later this year.

There's no reason why the Montrose studios couldn't become a general TV campus for RTE and TV3 and indeed any other broadcaster wishing to base themselves in Dublin.

Elmo: My view that RTÉ are a nepotism hotspot is based on a few experiences. Twenty five years ago I shared a flat in London with someone whose father was a senior manager in RTE. Said flatmate worked his summers at Montrose in the accounts department and got that job because his Dad had set him up for it. As a student I had written to RTE asking for summer work but never even got a reply. My flatmate told me straight that any such temp work was always (this was the mid 80s) filled by relations of RTE personnel.

Much later I worked at the BBC. A colleague who did work with RTE frequently joked with me about how many people he'd worked with in RTE were related to each other.

I happen to know someone who had worked at a senior level in RTE who claimed most people got in via the "pull".

None of these claims are scientific and would not stand up in a court of law but I have no reason not to believe them.

watty

Project 2025 is maybe about selling off land to make money.

If so nothing will happen about it till market recovers.

icdg

I'm not a big fan of the One Big Semi State Network plan that many people seem to have come in favour of (largely because of experience with the Eircom privatisation). Fine Gael call it "SmartGrid", but to me handing one firm that amount of control over the state's infrastructure is creating the monopoly to end all monopolies. There would have to be huge safeguards - a very strong external regulator (something we traditionally haven't had too much of), open access with fair pricing, and a requirement that the company would not be allowed sell direct to consumers nor own any firm selling direct to consumers.

As an example of why this is a bad idea, we come to the case of Cablelink. Cablelink went absolutely nowhere in technological terms between 1989 and 1999. The channel names may have been different, but while the predecesors of Virgin Media in the UK were offering 40 channel analogue services, telephone, and cable modems, Cablelink were quite happy to go along doing the same thing it had been doing for the past fifteen years. Why was this? Because Telecom didn't want it in the communications industry. Why would they - they would only have taken custom away from the core business. And Telecom got 100% of Telecom's profits. It only got 60% of Cablelink's so there was every incentive to ensure Cablelink stayed out of internet and telephone provision. If Cablelink had remained in Eircom's hands it would never have offered broadband, because they would have wanted you to take Eircom broadband instead.

But back to RTÉ...

RTÉ was for many years the ONLY place to get national TV/radio current affairs coverage in Ireland. Down the country ILRs covered local issues but in Dublin this wasn't the case and the news/current affairs quota was - and still is - being met by the likes of Chris Barry and Adrian Kennedy. The Last Word on Today FM was the sole survivor of the original Radio Ireland schedule and only survived becasue of that 20% news and current affairs quota. When TV3 first launched they had no pretensions and apart from their news bulettins the only current affairs was 20/20 which was in fact an ABC programme re-edited with Irish links and one Irish story per week. Its praised for Vincent Browne now, but he's a recent signing. Indeed in normal circumstances TV3 airs no news programming other than short summaries between Friday 6pm and Monday 5:30pm and to me that is not good enough.

Would a commercial broadcaster run RnaG? Lyric FM? Would it make Oireachtas Report? TRTÉ and RTÉjr? Run Prime Time in actual Prime Time? Run 2 1/2 hours of news each day on TV and more than 5 hours on radio?Would a commercial broadcaster interrupt The X Factor for a major breaking news story? We know the answer to that one; when news broke that the IMF were being called in, TV3 continued to run with the X Factor for fear viewers would just switch to ITV1.

TV3 would have RTÉ reduced to the PBS or ABC (Australia) model - make only "worthy" programmes, market failure only. No more sport (except maybe minority sports), no more films (except arthouse films), no more US drama, no more British drama. Neither of these broadcasters are in reciept of a licence fee (any more in the ABC's case). Indeed under this model the licence fee system would inevitably break down (as happened in Australia), as people would say "I don't watch current affairs/classical music/arts/kids TV, so why should I pay my licence fee?" The move to general taxation funding would gather apace. Of course, once that takes place, the Government gain instant control over RTÉ's budget and the ability to threathen them with instant funding cuts if they don't fall in line, as indeed happened with the ABC in Australia.

CDfm

icdg wrote: »

I agree with you on the infrastructure

But back to RTÉ...

The Last Word on Today FM was the sole survivor of the original Radio Ireland schedule and only survived becasue of that 20% news and current affairs quota.

Maybe so - but they do it so well.

George Hook on Newstalk is an amazing radio host and very fast paced.

When TV3 first launched they had no pretensions and apart from their news bulettins the only current affairs was 20/20 which was in fact an ABC programme re-edited with Irish links and one Irish story per week. Its praised for Vincent Browne now, but he's a recent signing. Indeed in normal circumstances TV3 airs no news programming other than short summaries between Friday 6pm and Monday 5:30pm and to me that is not good enough.

It brought choice to people who could not get cable or satellite. Everyone knows that.

Would a commercial broadcaster run RnaG? Lyric FM? Would it make Oireachtas Report? TRTÉ and RTÉjr? Run Prime Time in actual Prime Time? Run 2 1/2 hours of news each day on TV and more than 5 hours on radio?Would a commercial br
oadcaster interrupt
. Indeed under this model the licence fee system would inevitably break down (as happened in Australia), as people would say "I don't watch current affairs/classical music/arts/kids TV, so why should I pay my licence fee?"

Those of us that are interested in economics and government do not rate RTE's current affairs highly . I personnally think it is poor. Others have posted that they don't rate the news coverage rating it with the Red Tops..

RTE's history show on radio and is pure drivel compared to the Newstalk offering.

To compare ourselves to either Australia or the UK is much too ambitious we are a small country and dont have that much news.

The move to general taxation funding would gather apace. Of course, once that takes place, the Government gain instant control over RTÉ's budget and the ability to threathen them with instant funding cuts if they don't fall in line, as indeed happened with the ABC in Australia.

If you want to support culture and the arts from central government do that.

If I use the programming I am interested and qualified in as a yardstick and the quality is poor so maybe its other areas are poor too.

It is media and entertainment and if there is not a demand well.

The market has moved on since RTE's formation -its gone the same way as local newspapers.

If there is a need for it I cant see it.

Elmo

CDfm wrote: »

icdg wrote: »

I agree with you on the infrastructure

But back to RTÉ...

I agree but I still think the network should remain in the states hands rather than what happened with Eircom (but then eircom should have been split 3 ways before privatization Networks, Consumer, Mobile <== you could go futher I assume). I don't think a major monopoly holder of all network would be worthwhile, it suggests that ComReg would control all networks.

Maybe so - but they do it so well.

George Hook on Newstalk is an amazing radio host and very fast paced

It's either Mary or Matt for me, Hook is annoying. Its a pity that McGurk didn't last longer on 4FM. Though fast paced sounds very Red Top to me.

It brought choice to people who could not get cable or satellite. Everyone knows that.

As a person who lived in 3 TV land back in 1998 I was expecting more. TG4 had just launched 2 years perviously airing a decent set of Irish Language programmes from Drama, Comedy, Documentary, Short Film etc on a tiny budget of £16million. You can imagine what I was expecting from TV3 in 1998, a new Irish soap, Irish docs, Irish entertainment, Irish comedy especially when they report that they were spending £20million on programming. How disappointed was I when we got Early Edition, Just Shoot Me and other cheap US imports oh and EastEnders. Now they have changed and we just get ITV programming with a huge amount of cheap In House In Studio Chat making up their 30% quota. So no TG4 has provided me at least with more choice.

Those of us that are interested in economics and government do not rate RTE's current affairs highly . I personnally think it is poor. Others have posted that they don't rate the news coverage rating it with the Red Tops..

I personally disagree with this. I find RTÉ news balanced. While I know many go on about how FF lead it is, I personally don't find this. And I amn't a FF person. I think Newstalk let themselves down with Dunne and Monicrieff both of whom would work well and better on Today FM, Ray Foley should be moved to 98fm. And yes I have an interest in Politics and Economics.

To compare ourselves to either Australia or the UK is much too ambitious we are a small country and dont have that much news.

Do we not? You sound like you want international news, and I will agree RTÉ don't do this well but they do cover Irish stories. I think they should have RTÉ News on Two as a International Bulletin.

If you want to support culture and the arts from central government do that.

If I use the programming I am interested and qualified in as a yardstick and the quality is poor so maybe its other areas are poor too.

It is media and entertainment and if there is not a demand well.

The market has moved on since RTE's formation -its gone the same way as local newspapers.

If there is a need for it I cant see it.

I don't want culture and arts from central government. In the same way as I don't want to hear from the Minister of Culture when he spends the Lottos money which should be independent from him and technically is, but sure the Minister got us those GAA grounds :rolleyes:

As I said it isn't just about News and Current Affairs. RTÉ commissioned docs are some of the best and their Gealige, Religion and Multiculture section has developed some great docs including WYB. You should check out the Irish Doc on the Novel The Grass Arena.

I disagree with the Idea of a service like ABC or PBS since both are kept away from (e.g.) Live Sport yet both will produce excellent Sporting Docs

No the market prob doesn't demand Irish programming but since there is so little of it who would know what kind of market is out there. Culture and Arts aren't about the market. Should we close down the museums? the zoo? knock down Newgrange for a hypermaket or a road?

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Knock down Newgrange for a hypermaket or a road?

Well they did knock down Tara to build the M3, and put two tolls onto it!

watty

Oh..

I thought it was Trolls.