Tiling bathroom - Tile under/over toilet etc?

golfbgud

Hi All,

I'm about to commence work on our bathroom (Pressure from The Boss).
It's upstairs and the floor is t'n'g but sound and pretty level.

I have been advised to tile around the toilet to avoid cracking the tiles (my preference is to clear the room/floor, tile it and then place the objects on top of tiles). The only exception is the shower tray which I can understand. I will also be using plywood on top of existing floor.

So, can I happily tile the whole floor (shower excepted) and then replace the toilet and wash basin or is this a "bad" idea?

Thanks in advance.

Joey the lips

golfbgud wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm about to commence work on our bathroom (Pressure from The Boss).
It's upstairs and the floor is t'n'g but sound and pretty level.

I have been advised to tile around the toilet to avoid cracking the tiles (my preference is to clear the room/floor, tile it and then place the objects on top of tiles). The only exception is the shower tray which I can understand. I will also be using plywood on top of existing floor.

So, can I happily tile the whole floor (shower excepted) and then replace the toilet and wash basin or is this a "bad" idea?

Thanks in advance.

Firstly take out everything. Reason being if your toilet or basin has to be changed you might find it difficult to find an exact foot print later. Dont remove the shower tray.

Lay ply. I used 18mm but to be honest 6mm is fine. 18mm just makes the floor solid but can give trouble if you dont understand what to look out for,

Work out the thickness of the ply (6mm) and the thickness of the existising floor(say 10mm) add the 2 togther and screw the new ply down on top of the floor every 2" with no more that (16mm) screws). Then prime the floor and tile away...

Lastly although not advised i would stick the new toilet down with silicone. If you bead right around the lip it will hold. Put 2 screws in the back for security. That way if you need to remove the toilet the screws wont be rustly as they always are and you have a chance to save the toilet.

Note: You need to be careful with the silicone. It needs to be done right as its not the rec way but if done right it works perfect.

For record i only every siliconed my own or families never jobs I am a professional

brendankelly

The most important thing is the waste pipe from the toilet. The seal on this is designed so you have a little bit of play when first fitting it. The amount of play now could be at its max so you might not have enough room to raise the toilet bowel even the thickness of the tile.

Tillers charge about 30 euros per meter and your bathroom is max 5 sq meters. This is 150 euros to have the job done and dusted professionally with no worries. The price of one night out versus a cock up.

Joey the lips

brendankelly wrote: »

The most important thing is the waste pipe from the toilet. The seal on this is designed so you have a little bit of play when first fitting it. The amount of play now could be at its max so you might not have enough room to raise the toilet bowel even the thickness of the tile.

Tillers charge about 30 euros per meter and your bathroom is max 5 sq meters. This is 150 euros to have the job done and dusted professionally with no worries. The price of one night out versus a cock up.

You can buy an offset pan connector which saves you worrying about the waste pipe. It allows at least another 10mm on the raising of the toilet. Plenty for that 6mm ply and 4mm bed of adhesive..

Outside that you can use a flexi pan connector which will also be fine.

brendankelly

This is a guy that knows very little about tiling and you are advising him to take out a toilet that is working to save himself either the bother of cutting the few tiles around the toilet or 150 euros. I would worry about the waste pipe and he will also if it is leaking when he is finished.

Joey the lips

brendankelly wrote: »

This is a guy that knows very little about tiling and you are advising him to take out a toilet that is working to save himself either the bother of cutting the few tiles around the toilet or 150 euros. I would worry about the waste pipe and he will also if it is leaking when he is finished.

Anyone who cuts tiles around a toilet knows little about what can go wrong as well but this or his tiling experience is not being questioned.

The op has asked a question we have advised on it.

To help dispell your fears about the soil pipe I have answered that question as well.

Many good tilers will do basic bathroom plumbing however many good plumbers make terriable tilers. I am not advising the op how to plumb but simply how to improve the job and future protect should the toilet need replacing.

But lets say he refuses to take the toilet out and additionally refuses to take the sink and pedestal out but tiles around both. It will look terriable and around the pedestal and sink will look like a DIY job. I dont think the op wants this and tbh If he is capable of taking down a basin pedestal he is capable of taking out a toilet.

It all boils down to care and attention to detail.

gsxr1

Tiling around bathroom wear looks terrible. Even a bad tiler would avoid it.

OP .There are options on your soil pipe. If you simply go down to your nearest pluming store and ask you will be enlightened.

As joey said. If you run into trouble in the future and find you need a new bowl, its going to be tricky.

gregers85

cutting round the bowl and the sink is very tricky and is very hard to get right!! it is a much nicer cleaner job to take everything out and replace when the tiles are dry a day or so however if you are not experinced with plimbing i would highly recommend you keep everything in place!!! id rather break 20 tiles doing the cuts then have the toilet or sink leak and piss water all over the place!

Tommi78

brendankelly wrote: »

The most important thing is the waste pipe from the toilet. The seal on this is designed so you have a little bit of play when first fitting it. The amount of play now could be at its max so you might not have enough room to raise the toilet bowel even the thickness of the tile.

Tillers charge about 30 euros per meter and your bathroom is max 5 sq meters. This is 150 euros to have the job done and dusted professionally with no worries. The price of one night out versus a cock up.

Would love to meet the tilers that are on 30 euro per metre more like 20 at the very most.

gsxr1

Tommi78 wrote: »

Would love to meet the tilers that are on 30 euro per metre more like 20 at the very most.

Yeah it has dropped considerably lately. I have had lads quoting 15 and driving from the Wexford to Kildare to tile.

But then I sometimes help a lad who prices high and he is kept going due to a good rep.

Tis the times.

Sparkpea

everything joey said is spot on

OP is asking for advice and the best way to do things, clear the floor except the shower tray, lay at least 6mm ply on top of the t&g, you may need an off set multiwik for the toilet but thats no big deal.

this is the cleanest, best and most professional way to do it and as already stated if something needs replaced at a later date it will make things 100% easier for you

johneym

hi folks, sorry to jump on the thread but I too will be tiling the bathroom an was wondering the same thing. The only thing is I am using a wooding type tile called tileloc or something. Would you reccommend tiling inder or around toilet?

Thanks

Joey the lips

johneym wrote: »

hi folks, sorry to jump on the thread but I too will be tiling the bathroom an was wondering the same thing. The only thing is I am using a wooding type tile called tileloc or something. Would you reccommend tiling inder or around toilet?

Thanks

The same. However i dont rate that tileloc. I would def stick the toilet down as you will be replacing this far sooner than tiles....

Not to attack you but i cannot understand why anyone puts wood in a bathroom floor. This was prob about 4 mtrs cost roughly 80 euro. Granted you can lay it yourself but the tiles and adhesive would only cost 100-120 and will last years longer.

The more you tuck tile lock away under things the longer it will last. The more openings and cuts visable the more it will absorb water.

DoesNotCompute

gsxr1 wrote: »

Yeah it has dropped considerably lately. I have had lads quoting 15 and driving from the Wexford to Kildare to tile.

But then I sometimes help a lad who prices high and he is kept going due to a good rep.

Tis the times.

I'm looking for a good tiler to do a job in my house at the moment, don't suppose you'd be willing to PM me his contact details?

golfbgud

Thanks to everybody that has replied to date!

I was offline since Friday and just switched on (got a surprise with amount of discussion)!

(1) I have successfully used the offset adapter to repair the existing toilet in the past.

(2) I was informed that the "good" tilers are now charging about 15-euros/sq yd. I live in Meath and this price was quoted to me by three different tile vendors.

(3) I am satisfied that removing the pieces, laying the ply and then tiling on top is the way forward. I'm buying a new toilet and wash basin so the old one's are coming out anyway.

(4) I was given the name of a "recommended" tiler yesterday who also does plumbing - not sure if I like this idea but it is possible to do both if you have a good knowledge of both.

(5) Biggest issue I have right now is trying to get "herself" to decide on the tiles! It will be a black/white combo of some sort (went through the cream/brown options for a few days but now back to black/white).

(6) I also have reservations about the temp - the tiles have to be considerably colder?

(7) I was taking out the radiator and replacing it with a towel bar but my advisor says they are poor for heat on their own?

(8) If the total price is not prohibitive, I may well give the work out as we cannot be without the bathroom for long (5 adults sharing the house)..

(9) Anyone recommend the "own brand" Surety shower doors/trays from Tubs n Tiles with 5yr guarantee? Works out at about 330 for 900x900 quadrant with tray etc. This appears a very good price based on other items I was priced elsewhere?

Tired typing now so that's it for tonight! Thanks again people for the feedback!

treborm

Looking to tile my own bathroom, but wall surface is not great. Plan is to fix plywood to wall and floors, the walls are solid brick any tips on how to fix the plywood to the walls, what grade ply and thickness.
Apologies for jumping on tread.

Joey the lips

golfbgud wrote: »

Thanks to everybody that has replied to date!

I was offline since Friday and just switched on (got a surprise with amount of discussion)!

(1) I have successfully used the offset adapter to repair the existing toilet in the past.

(2) I was informed that the "good" tilers are now charging about 15-euros/sq yd. I live in Meath and this price was quoted to me by three different tile vendors.

(3) I am satisfied that removing the pieces, laying the ply and then tiling on top is the way forward. I'm buying a new toilet and wash basin so the old one's are coming out anyway.

(4) I was given the name of a "recommended" tiler yesterday who also does plumbing - not sure if I like this idea but it is possible to do both if you have a good knowledge of both.

(5) Biggest issue I have right now is trying to get "herself" to decide on the tiles! It will be a black/white combo of some sort (went through the cream/brown options for a few days but now back to black/white).

(6) I also have reservations about the temp - the tiles have to be considerably colder?

(7) I was taking out the radiator and replacing it with a towel bar but my advisor says they are poor for heat on their own?

(8) If the total price is not prohibitive, I may well give the work out as we cannot be without the bathroom for long (5 adults sharing the house)..

(9) Anyone recommend the "own brand" Surety shower doors/trays from Tubs n Tiles with 5yr guarantee? Works out at about 330 for 900x900 quadrant with tray etc. This appears a very good price based on other items I was priced elsewhere?

Tired typing now so that's it for tonight! Thanks again people for the feedback!

1. Cool

2. I dont know any good tiler charging 15 euro a square yard. Considering the adverage bathroom is 25 yards that 400 euro for a weeks work. Not much when there subs to the govt are paid fuel wtc but if your happy with the work go with it.

3. Cool. Well done

4, Nothing wrong with a tiler doing basic plumbing provided there is no gas work and there is not major moving. Most use qualpex to make there life simple anyway.

5. Best of luck

6. Colder than what...? Get floor matts.

7. If your replacing a standard bathroom radiator 500x400 then get a 500 x 1200 towel rail. Any smaller and the heat will be terriable

8. Why not.

9. Nothing wrong with surity doors, good adjustment and chrome finish. Fitted a couple. A little tricky.

treborm wrote: »

Looking to tile my own bathroom, but wall surface is not great. Plan is to fix plywood to wall and floors, the walls are solid brick any tips on how to fix the plywood to the walls, what grade ply and thickness.
Apologies for jumping on tread.

Forget ply wood. If the walls are that bad fix plaster board if not the tiler will be good enough to use a skim of adhesive.

golfbgud

One other thing........

I was amazed at the prices for the toilet alone. In one shop I was offered a wash basin and toilet as a pair on offer for €200. Looked quite well too.

On Sat I was priced €220 for a toilet alone with a soft closing lid and was told it was far better quality but was middle of the road in terms of price?

Is there really such a difference between pans? What makes the price?

Thanks.

Joey the lips

golfbgud wrote: »

One other thing........

I was amazed at the prices for the toilet alone. In one shop I was offered a wash basin and toilet as a pair on offer for €200. Looked quite well too.

On Sat I was priced €220 for a toilet alone with a soft closing lid and was told it was far better quality but was middle of the road in terms of price?

Is there really such a difference between pans? What makes the price?

Thanks.

There is massive differences in prices of ware... But remember a bog standard toilet cistern basin and ped can be made look well by for example

Soft close seat on the toilet( availavle in lidl recently for 20 euro i think)

stylish taps.( a simple basin can look brilliant by the choice of taps)

pop up waste(good quality wiquin waste will last forever)

imo stay away from square toilets. It limits you on seats later...although they do look good.

Spread

Joey the lips wrote: »

1. Cool


Forget ply wood. If the walls are that bad fix plaster board if not the tiler will be good enough to use a skim of adhesive.

I'd be inclined to mushroom insulation boards to the walls and skim. This should ensure no streaming walls after bath/shower in cold weather and no mold on window reveals and soffit.

Stevie Dakota

Joey the lips wrote: »

bog standard

I just bought a simple ensuite but nice tap, €170. There are some great deals around at the moment.

Joey the lips

Spread wrote: »

I'd be inclined to mushroom insulation boards to the walls and skim. This should ensure no streaming walls after bath/shower in cold weather and no mold on window reveals and soffit.

You wont need to skim if tiling over just use skrim tape at joints.

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I just bought a simple ensuite but nice tap, €170. There are some great deals around at the moment.

I never realised the joke but point made.

johneym

thanks Joey for the reply.

I suppose there are a few reasons for going with the tileloc and none of them are in the price. In fact, the tileloc c ost almost 3 times more than the tiles.
They look very well and are made specifically for kitchens and bathrooms. They fit really tightly together and come with a garentee against moisture ingress.
There is no messing with tile adhesive. No messing with grout and no grouting. I can use the same thermal underlay as I already have for my other laminate. I can cut them into place with a handsaw, while with tiles I would have a lot of dust from using the anglegrinder. You see I will not be taking out the bath and this is round. And lastly, these are really warm an comfy underfoot and hold the heat quite well.The floor and the tiles were always so cold.

Joey the lips

johneym wrote: »

thanks Joey for the reply.

I suppose there are a few reasons for going with the tileloc and none of them are in the price. In fact, the tileloc c ost almost 3 times more than the tiles.
They look very well and are made specifically for kitchens and bathrooms. They fit really tightly together and come with a garentee against moisture ingress.
There is no messing with tile adhesive. No messing with grout and no grouting. I can use the same thermal underlay as I already have for my other laminate. I can cut them into place with a handsaw, while with tiles I would have a lot of dust from using the anglegrinder. You see I will not be taking out the bath and this is round. And lastly, these are really warm an comfy underfoot and hold the heat quite well.The floor and the tiles were always so cold.

All of these are good reasons but i guarantee you this. You will have water ingress and the manufactures may give you back your money but you will still have to take it up and replace it.

I know the sales pitch and each to there own but I would never ever use it. If i want warm tiles I use a bath matt.

But having said that i am not knocking you just being critical of the product.

darsar

Lads, never tiled in my life but going to attack the bathroom this month.

What is the reasoning behind laying ply as opposed to removing tiles and scrape and sand roughness?

Joey the lips

darsar wrote: »

Lads, never tiled in my life but going to attack the bathroom this month.

What is the reasoning behind laying ply as opposed to removing tiles and scrape and sand roughness?

On the floor or wall?

You do remove the old tiles and scrape and sand but if the ply is not sound afterwards you will need to remove it.

Most tilers remove the old ply as its easier to take it all up in one lot

However if i tiled i would lay the screws every 2". Not a chance that ply would come up so scrapeing and sanding is only left.

darsar

I didn't realise there was ply behind tiles. I thought tiles were fixed straight to the wall or floor. Shows what I know!

Screws every two inches seems abit much no?

And Joey, do you live on this DIY section!! You helped me out last year too

Joey the lips

darsar wrote: »

I didn't realise there was ply behind tiles. I thought tiles were fixed straight to the wall or floor. Shows what I know!

Screws every two inches seems abit much no?

And Joey, do you live on this DIY section!! You helped me out last year too

Plaster board on the wall. Ply 6mm on the floor. Must be primed. Screws every 2" is a lot but it will NEVER give you trouble,

What you do is work out the thckness of the floor(say 10mm) and the thickness of the ply(say6mm) and buy 16mm screws and screw the floor every 2 inches. About 100 screws in an adverage bathroom

If the floor is primed after and done right the ply surface can be scraped and reused in 10 years again.

darsar

My bathroom is tiny so that's handy to know thanks. House is only 6 years old so might get away with scrape.

Would you use 100 screws in say, 30-40 down the middle and 30-40 down the sides or randomly place them around?

gsxr1

darsar wrote: »

My bathroom is tiny so that's handy to know thanks. House is only 6 years old so might get away with scrape.

Would you use 100 screws in say, 30-40 down the middle and 30-40 down the sides or randomly place them around?

You need to screw like joey says. you would be sick if you finished the job, only to see a tile lift due to floor movement.

Dont spare the screws. 30mm screws are fine for 6mm ply. Sink the head, but not so far that it goes right through the ply. PRIME after.

darsar

Are spacers for wall tiles and floor the same thickness?

What is meant by 'prime'?