New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

I dont see Brady being the same in 5 years.

Could he be starting, yes.
Will he be as good as he is now, no.

Everyone slows down with age, look at Ray Lewis this year.
He's the same Ray, smart as always, but his body can no longer keep up.

Comparing Ray Lewis to Brady is like comparing a wrecking ball to a Ferrari, they are two totally different animals. Lewis has made a career as a human battering ram, Brady, well he's a QB isn't he. The highly impact physicality of Lewis's career is now catching up him. But If you want to draw comparisons, then surely you should use a QB to do so.

BizzyC wrote: »

He's the same Ray, smart as always, but his body can no longer keep up.

Wear and tear and that's because he has crashed into opponents all his career. A role which no QB performs. Brady or any QB faces nothing like the physical demands on their body that Lewis has to/had to go through. So it's therefore natural to conclude that as a result of this, Brady should have more longevity in his career.

Another important factor is the playing style of QB here. Brady is the master in the pocket, ice cool, never panicking and he never needed to rely on an ability to run or flee from the pocket like a lot of QB's do. Which again makes his age much less of an issue. Because an ability to flee the pocket and mobility aren't an issue for him and never have been.

Now compare a young guy like Cam, if he doesn't get destroyed one one of his runs in the next ten years I'll amazed. His style will be seriously affected with age. Because he just won't be able to continue playing like that.

SixtyTwo

I find it odd that people are quick to dismiss a guy like Brady last up into his 40's when you had a guy like Brett Favre do it and still play at a high level. Favre took a pasting for most of his career, 10 times more hits than Brady but yet people are quick to put down Brady.

I actually believe if any of the modern NFL QBs can stay healthy and are still able to workout at a high level there is no reason why none of them can't go until 40. It is after all the most protected position on the field and some of these guys take minimal contact compared to practically every other bar the kicker and punter.

Sure injuries and age will have a major play but if a modern QB can stay fit and keep himself relatively healthy no reason why they cant give high performances into their late 30's.

BizzyC

Favre played at a high level, but it was definitely below where he was at his best, that's the point I'm making.

In 5 years I think Brady could still be a good QB, but he wont be MVP material any longer.
To think someone in their 40's will still be at the top of the sport is unrealistic.

SixtyTwo

BizzyC wrote: »

Favre played at a high level, but it was definitely below where he was at his best, that's the point I'm making.

In 5 years I think Brady could still be a good QB, but he wont be MVP material any longer.
To think someone in their 40's will still be at the top of the sport is unrealistic.

I think everyone will agree that he wont be Top of the sport or MVP but there is no reason if healthy why they can't churn out high performances. Granted they probably wont be as consistent in past times or at their peak but I still believe a guy who practically these days is untouchable and at this point using minimal contact can still perform at a high level into his late 30's and real early 40's.

SK1979

I think there are so many unknowns here that its impossible to say with any certainty. While the QB's are protected like mad, there are still instances where they can get hurt. I think it was Locker a couple of weeks ago and he got absolutely blasted by someone while he was in the backfield (think he got blind-sided). I would definitely of been worried if that hit was made on a 40 year old QB. Obviously, the answer there was that a decent OL would stop that hit but it can happen.

I obviously hope Brady stays healthy and fit for another 5+ years but I do think its far from certain that he can.

Son Of A Vidic

SixtyTwo wrote: »

I find it odd that people are quick to dismiss a guy like Brady last up into his 40's when you had a guy like Brett Favre do it and still play at a high level. Favre took a pasting for most of his career, 10 times more hits than Brady but yet people are quick to put down Brady.

Shortly before his retirement, Favre threw for a career high 36 completions for 446 yards, 2TD's and coming back from a 14 point deficit to beat the Cardinals 27-24 in overtime.

One hit too many and a bad concussion ended his career. But finally, that's a good comparison there you made. Favre certainly never looked after himself the way Brady has during his career so far.

taidghbaby

SK1979 wrote: »

I think there are so many unknowns here that its impossible to say with any certainty. While the QB's are protected like mad, there are still instances where they can get hurt. I think it was Locker a couple of weeks ago and he got absolutely blasted by someone while he was in the backfield (think he got blind-sided). I would definitely of been worried if that hit was made on a 40 year old QB. Obviously, the answer there was that a decent OL would stop that hit but it can happen.

I obviously hope Brady stays healthy and fit for another 5+ years but I do think its far from certain that he can.

Hypothetically speaking (and I'm not being a smart arse here btw) Brady could be hit by a bus in the morning and that could be the end of him!

I think if we base our predictions on Brady not picking up any serious injuries (I know it's impossible to predict), then the question is does Brady have the tools to keep playing to a high level until he's 40! From what I've seen then the answer is definitely yes!

Son Of A Vidic

taidghbaby wrote: »

I think if we base our predictions on Brady not picking up any serious injuries (I know it's impossible to predict), then the question is does Brady have the tools to keep playing to a high level until he's 40! From what I've seen then the answer is definitely yes!

I unwittingly started all this off yesterday, but I did emphasize all along the importance of Brady staying healthy. I just hope I haven't jinxed him now.:(

taidghbaby

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I unwittingly started all this off yesterday, but I did emphasize all along the importance of Brady staying healthy. I just hope I haven't jinxed him now.:(

Incidentally when do you think bellichek will put into place a succession plan? Is there one already, I.e. are one of your backup QBs ready to take over? If last year thought us anything putting all of you eggs into one (albeit a future hall of fame one) basket is not a great idea!

Son Of A Vidic

Tb I know you were talking about QB's, but I broke your question into 2 and also looked at a potential future Head Coach also.

taidghbaby wrote: »

Incidentally when do you think bellichek will put into place a succession plan?

From a Head Coach perspective it's hard to know if he has one already. But If anyone has one it's him. McDaniels is his No. 2 at the moment, I gave out stinks about him in the match week thread on Sunday. I suppose I was overreacting and angry at the continuing stuttering on offense. I read Eagle Eye's post about McDaniels later and it gave me some perspective. He did his best work with the Pats before he left and now he's back. In a lot of ways his career mirrors Belichick's. BB's first head coaching job didn't exactly set the world on fire. Backroom issues didn't help him but the learning experience was invaluable. McDaniels has had a similar experience I feel.

His desire to develop a strong run game is the right thing to do. Having no run game and lacking the ability to manage the clock cost us dearly in the 07 & 11 SB's. As EE said, this season in many ways is a restructuring process and a period of getting reacquainted for Josh. I think he has the talent to take over some day from BB. And I think a lot of Pats fans think McDaniels has come back to his natural home. The next season or two will determine whether he is our future leader or not.

taidghbaby wrote: »

are one of your backup QBs ready to take over? If last year thought us anything putting all of you eggs into one (albeit a future hall of fame one) basket is not a great idea!

Not a nice lesson to learn alright, we were fortunate to have Brady when Bledsoe went down all those years ago. Oh he wasn't the finished article but look what he became. Mallett is next in line and I was delighted when he got promoted. He was definitely a steal for the Pats in his draft year. His talent is beyond question and fúck he has a tremendous arm.

He's a same pocket style QB like Brady and I could see a huge improvement in him from this preseason to last. He was simply commanding at times during the preseason, he looked like a natural leader and you could see the effect that a year under Brady was having on him. As much as I liked Hoyer, Mallett just showed him up unfortunately and looked more decisive.

I noticed some nice little things in the offseason. Like when the pocket collapsed he threw some nice last second feints/side steps to evade the sack. He kept focused on his target and delivered the pass. It had Brady written all over it. I think he could step up and do a very good job if Brady is gone.

Mallett strikes me as the kinda of guy that would grow in strength and stature when he gets a groove going. He has grown up a lot since he joined the Pats, even in the way he carries himself and dresses. Is Brady replaceable? No. Is Peyton replaceable? No. Then again, Those guys are just in a different stratosphere really.

My only concern for Mallett is Brady's potential longevity. No doubt other teams will come sniffing around, if Brady keeps playing for another 5 years and beyond. So hanging on to him might be the difficult part. Then again, if he's happy to stay under Brady wing, he'll be more than ready when Brady steps aside.

taidghbaby

Hold is Mallet? Or more importantly how old will he be in 4/5 years time? I don't know if I'd be overly happy to have my backup be....well happy being a backup! I know he's sitting there learning from a great but let's be honest the big bucks are in being a starter not a backup and one of the things you want in a QB is ambition and the desire to be a starter! Again I don't know Mallet personally so maybe he has these traits in abundance! I'm not saying Mallet would be wrong to sit there and wait for a few more years, but I want my QB to want to be the centre of attention on a Sunday afternoon now!
Funnily enough there may not be a huge market out there for him! When you look at the experiences of the Seahawks with Flynn and to a lesser extent the chiefs with Cassell, I think teams may be a bit more cautious offering big contacts to backups that only have a handful of starts! Also as this year shows in particular QBs are coming out of college ready to go and teams are more than happy to put them in from day one!!

So the question is who do you think will be harder to replace: Brady or Bellichek? I'd say Bill will be harder! I hear what your saying about McDaniels being the heir apparent, but I'd be surprised how much of a control he has (in the philosophy anyway) of the offense! I'd still say that Bellichek is the main man, and makes all the key decisions! Luckily for ye I don't see Bellichek stepping down any time soon!!

BizzyC

I dont think Mallet will be a viable succession plan for Brady.
As a backup he's a great option, but at some point he needs to play and he'll be waiting too long in New England, barring a devastating injury to Brady. (touch wood)

I think that bringing in a veteran QB to fill a gap temporarily is the most likely option, unless we pick up another good QB prospect in the draft a few years down the line.
We saw when Brady went down, McDaniels doesn't need a HOF QB to win 11 games...

Son Of A Vidic

taidghbaby wrote: »

Hold is Mallet? Or more importantly how old will he be in 4/5 years time?

Mallett is 24 so if Brady plays for another 4-5 years, he'll be 28-29 when/if he takes over. Staying healthy and playing well, he could conceivably lead the franchise for a decade. The league is full of young starter QB's right now. But those franchise haven't got the luxury of not starting them really. It will be down to Mallett at the end of the day, to either bide his time or look to move on. My gut tells me he is more than happy with his lot right now. If things do change though, I think it will come from the front office side rather than Mallett himself.

Like Brady, Belichick is totally irreplaceable. And your right about Belichek not going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I see the Belichick-McDaniels relationship as being similar to the Brady-Mallett one. Both are in a great position to pick the brains of two greats and both should be in a great position when Tom and Bill decide to step down. Personally I think it's always better to groom an heir from inside the ranks of an organisation, rather than bringing a new face in and upsetting a successful formula.

Son Of A Vidic

Who said Bill never smiles (well not for the media anyway). Love this shot after Ninkovich won the game with his big play against the Jets.

SixtyTwo

Hernandez out Sunday

eagle eye

Hernandez injury is a worry, he didn't look himself the last two weeks and now goes down again.

Ras IR Dowling is gone on IR again, guy is a china doll.


Last time we lost the home opener and the last time we had this much trouble at CB and struggles with one of our top two TEs(Watson went on IR) we won the Superbowl.

Mike912

I was at the Jets game, pretty good seats too which were none of my doing. Hernandez was visibly limping on and off the field, must have really reached down to run his routes. This week off, and next with the bye, hopefully will help his recovery. One of my few issues with Belichick is the importance he places on regular season games. Why not give Aaron a few extra weeks off to get 100% healthy? Why not give Gronk the time he needs to fully overcome his hip? Gear the season towards the post season Bill, would be my advice.

In the little time I've seen Ras on the field, it's obvious the guy is a special athlete. The guy just looks fast and agile. I could do without the histrionics after he makes a play however, but when he's in, he does cover well. We all know Bill has a short fuse for china dolls, Ras' days might be numbered.

Lastly, CM mentioned Vereen a while ago. Similar to Ras, Vereen looked very head and shoulders above the typical NFL'er during the Jets game, explosive quickness. Here's hoping he's not another china doll.

Son Of A Vidic

Just back from the London game and I'm now 16-0 home and away for Pats wins . I'm always happier seeing a game live because TV restricts so much and you miss a lot. I was so annoyed when we gave away that soft TD to the Rams, but in fairness to Dennard and Wilson they were excellent after that, each picking off an Int each.

I'm happier with McCourty at Safety and Dennard filling his CB slot. Even though CB is McCourty's position of choice, I think he's much better at Safety and it certainly looked like it on Sunday.

Hightower and Jones were immense yet again. Cunningham is a different player this season. The D line did a fantastic jobs and watching Wilfork hunting down his prey near the sideline was just mind boggling to watch.

Brady was just simply devastating, the O-line were immense and gave him great protection. Chris Long and Robert Quinn have sacked every QB they have faced this season. But they hadn't a chance against Solder and Vollmer, who were just monsters. Amazing when you think how young these guys are.

First time to see the run game in real time and Ridley's running was unbelievable at times. Vereen adds another exciting dynamic and his ability to pull off jump cuts while airborne is impressive to watch.

So having seen the boys playing live in the flesh for the first time this season. I come away impressed by what I saw off camera as much as what was shown on camera. The Rams beat the Seahawks and the Cardinals who were two teams we slipped up against and should have beaten. But most importantly, the Pats looked like they were starting to find their stride on Sunday, which is good news for us and very worrying news for the rest.

Son Of A Vidic

An interesting stat and another record sent tumbling by The Patriots. For the 17th straight game the Pats went over 350 yards on total game offense. Their actual game total on the night was 459 yards. That breaks an NFL record set by the Rams in 1999-2000.

SixtyTwo

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Just back from the London game and I'm now 16-0 home and away for Pats wins . I'm always happier seeing a game live because TV restricts so much and you miss a lot. I was so annoyed when we gave away that soft TD to the Rams, but in fairness to Dennard and Wilson they were excellent after that, each picking off an Int each.

Wish I could say the same Im 12-4 with Pats games Home and away . Hoping to make 14-4 in December going to see 49ers and Fish games in Gillette.

I'm happier with McCourty at Safety and Dennard filling his CB slot. Even thought CB is McCourty's position of choice, I think he's much better at Safety and it certainly looked like it on Sunday.

Im glad we finally pushed McCourty to safety. I think he makes better decisions there and hopefully he gets more consistent as time goes on.

Hightower and Jones were immense yet again. Cunningham is a different player this season. The D line did a fantastic jobs and watching Wilfork hunting down his prey near the sideline was just mind boggling to watch.

These two added with Wilfork Ninkovich and Mayo have truly made our front 7 great to watch. Even Spikes is getting in on the act he gets better as the games go on. Looking more and more consistent. Our front 7 our exciting to watch again. More Blitzes also please Bill.

Brady was just simply devastating, the O-line were immense and gave him great protection. Chris Long and Robert Quinn have sacked every QB they have faced this season. But they hadn't a chance against Solder and Vollmer, who were just monsters. Amazing when you think how young these guys are.

Great to see our Oline kick into gear finally. Hopefully these are positive signs for when we play the tougher teams especially the playoffs.

First time to see the run game in real time and Ridley's running was unbelievable at times. Vereen adds another exciting dynamic and his ability to pull off jump cuts while airborne is impressive to watch.

Love Shane Vereen. I said it last year the kid would be a key to our offense and hopefully now all his injuries are behind him. Him and Ridley will make a great tendem in that backfield.

So having seen the boys playing live in the flesh for the first time this season. I come away impressed by what I saw off camera as much as what was shown on camera. The Rams beat the Seahawks and the Cardinals who were two teams we slipped up against and should have beaten. But most importantly, the Pats looked like they were starting to find their stride on Sunday, which is good news for us and very worrying news for the rest.

I have to say though as great as the win was I am still not convinced. I do feel the Rams were awful on Sunday and as good as we looked the Rams didn't help themselves at all. I am hoping I am wrong but for me its key to see out the regular season and do our business in the playoffs and hopefully between now and then the team proves me wrong and then destroys in the playoffs.

SixtyTwo

Pats just waived Sterling Moore. Have to say Im shocked at this move.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21237691/report-pats-waive-cb-moore-add-two-others

The Patriots waived cornerback Sterling Moore and signed defensive back Derrick Martin and linebacker Mike Rivera on Wednesday, according to ESPN Boston.

The 5-foot-10, 190-pound Moore, who was signed by the Patriots last October, became a regular part of New England's secondary rotation in 2011, eventually playing a key role in the Patriots' win in the AFC title game when he knocked a pass away from Ravens receiver Lee Evans. The 22-year-old has 13 tackles, one pass defensed and one forced fumble in eight games this season.

Martin and Rivera both have previous connections to the Patriots. The 27-year-old Martin, who has been in the league for six seasons, signed with the Patriots on Aug. 4, but was released on Aug. 31 prior to the start of the regular season. The 5-foot-10, 198-pound defensive back had 12 tackles in 14 games last season for the Giants. As for Rivera, the 6-foot-2, 255-pounder out of Kansas was signed to the Patriots' practice squad last November, but the 26-year-old was released in September after seeing limited action on special teams.

Son Of A Vidic

SixtyTwo wrote: »

Wish I could say the same Im 12-4 with Pats games Home and away . Hoping to make 14-4 in December going to see 49ers and Fish games in Gillette.

Two games in December? Ya greedy fecker.

SixtyTwo wrote: »

Im glad we finally pushed McCourty to safety. I think he makes better decisions there and hopefully he gets more consistent as time goes on.

Watching McCourty on Sunday and seeing him spot plays and call out formations he spotted on the offense, tells me he's better off playing safety. I think Chung is finished, aside from being very poor at times this season, there is just no improvement in his persistent fragility. It's his final year and I think he'll do well to get an extension.

SixtyTwo wrote: »

Wilfork Ninkovich and Mayo have truly made our front 7 great to watch. Even Spikes is getting in on the act he gets better as the games go on. Looking more and more consistent.

The whole D line looks so much more effective this season and more importantly, they look like a good strong brotherly unit. Mayo's tackle rate is crazy, Spikes just keeps making bone shaking hits and Ninkovich is probably not getting the glory he deserves because of how good our rookies have been. I still haven't recovered from seeing Wilfork's devastating tackle over on the sideline on Sunday. I mean it just shouldn't be possible, fecking man-mountain can move like a cheetah.

SixtyTwo wrote: »

Great to see our Oline kick into gear finally. Hopefully these are positive signs for when we play the tougher teams especially the playoffs.

My early season worries about them has passed, they were immense on Sunday and Brady had great protection. The Rams have a very talented front four, but our O line just crushed them. It's the kind of performance Brady needs so he can dismantle a defense. I suppose we shouldn't ever doubt the genius of Coach Scarnecchia.

SixtyTwo wrote: »

Love Shane Vereen. I said it last year the kid would be a key to our offense and hopefully now all his injuries are behind him. Him and Ridley will make a great tendem in that backfield.

Great to see the Patriots run game tearing up the opposition. Our young boys are only going to get better and stronger. Vereen needs to stay fit for the rest of the season though and put those niggling injuries behind him.

SixtyTwo wrote: »

I have to say though as great as the win was I am still not convinced. I do feel the Rams were awful on Sunday and as good as we looked the Rams didn't help themselves at all.

The Rams were comprehensively outplayed in every facet of the game on Sunday. They were just dismantled and simply because the team played at a consistent level throughout the match. We've seen a good quarter here and there so far this season. But this was the first time where they kept it going throughout the game.

counterlock

Reports coming out that Rackers and Cundiff are practising with the patriots this week. Thanks but no thanks!

eagle eye

Is Gost injured?

SixtyTwo

eagle eye wrote: »

Is Gost injured?

Not down on any reports but didn't Bill do the same last year? Probably to keep Gost on his toes.

BizzyC

He had a guy in preseason, not mid season....

SixtyTwo

Just reading a lot of reports the suggestion has been made that the Pats are looking for a kicker with a deeper leg. In 7 seasons he has only kicked 10 50+ FG and made 7 of them. The 3 kickers we are working out are Gano, Rackers and Cundiff. If we do drop Gost for one of those 3 hopefully its Rackers he is the best of the bad bunch and has a deep leg.

Gost is 17 of 20 right now. Other than the try out kickers in the case of emergency I can't see the Pats dropping him. He doesn't seem to be injured and all the reports are saying the above or its just trying out guys just in case. It also wouldn't surprise me if it was to send a message to Gost that not even his job is safe.

Son Of A Vidic

counterlock wrote: »

Reports coming out that Rackers and Cundiff are practising with the patriots this week. Thanks but no thanks!

No thanks indeed, Gostkowski is back to his old reliable self.

SixtyTwo wrote: »

Just reading a lot of reports the suggestion has been made that the Pats are looking for a kicker with a deeper leg. In 7 seasons he has only kicked 10 50+ FG and made 7 of them. The 3 kickers we are working out are Gano, Rackers and Cundiff. If we do drop Gost for one of those 3 hopefully its Rackers he is the best of the bad bunch and has a deep leg.

I don't think it's such an issue for us as it is for other teams. Once again this season we have the leading offense in the NFL. Getting within long range field goal range isn't so much an issue for us. But for other teams with a limited offense, then it's going to be a key area for them.

Gostkowski only kicking 10 long range field goals, says more about our efficiency in moving the chains than anything else I think. And his 70% success rate is pretty impressive in my books.

Gweedling

Isn't there a youtube video somewhere of a high school kid kicking 60+ field goals effortlessly? can we have him? I'm in work now so can't get the link but you guys can find it easily enough.

Corvus made a great point, long range field goals usually aren't that big of an issue with us as we've a solid enough offense to push deeper into the red zone.

SixtyTwo

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Gostkowski only kicking 10 long range field goals, says more about our efficiency in moving the chains than anything else I think. And his 70% success rate is pretty impressive in my books.

Well not really. How many times in the past have we needed to get in field goal range but were 50+ yards out and punted or gone for it because Gost hasn't got the leg for it. Not saying I completely buy into the idea of needing a longer kicker but there is some truth to it. As games get harder there might be a case for needing someone who is comfortable kicking 50+ kicks.

For me unlike many Pats fans I really don't think we are out of the woods yet. I really don't think we should be holding the Rams game as us back on track. We have a few tough games coming up and to be honest every score counts and Im sure Im not alone thinking this. It would be nice to know when a game is tight we could kick over 50 yards. Either put faith in Gost to do so or find someone who can.

But I do like Gost and hope he stays his efficient self from now to the playoffs and on into the playoffs. He is a cracking kicker. I do think its more of Bill just trying out kickers just in case and/or letting Gost know your job isn't as safe as you think. Motivation.