Criminal Record Question

Mr McBoatface

For those you who think I and other posters here are judgemental "glasshouses" and all that crap -

sideways mary wrote: »

I have a criminal conviction after one really drunken night nearly 3 years ago, cant remember much from that night but got arrested and subsequently brought to court and convicted. The offence was minor, from what i have been told I picked up a girls handbag on the ground in a nightclub, walked around with it on my shoulder, then left the club about an hour later, bouncer rings guards, me arrested, convicted on theft.

sideways mary wrote: »

i was too pissed drunk to even talk let alone know what i was doing. I admitted I left the nightclub with the bag, even though i don't remember it whatsoever

The OP was pissed and was in possession of another person property for an hour maybe more, then left the premises with that property before the bouncers stopped him. NOBODY forced the OP to get pissed, God only knows what other stupid crime or harm the OP could have committed had he not been stopped. He should consider himself fortunate that nothing more serious happened. There is a serious issue with young people and alcohol in this country, go to an A&E on a Saturday night and you'll see young people including educated ones of otherwise good character after inflicting horrific injuries upon themselves and others, threatening the hospital staff.... all because they could not control themselves. IMO the OP's education and good character should not be grounds to absolve him of responsibility for his action or to reduce punishment - he choose to get pissed and stole something while out of his mind. The judge was aware of more facts of the case than anybody who has posted here (other than the OP) and felt the sentence was suitable to the crime committed ... I'll go with what the judge decided on this one.

pirelli wrote: »

Simply in my view in this post recession country we need citizens like the OP who has a qualification in Accountancy. We need to manage our money very carefully and have to turn our debt interest into a profit and savvy financial wizardy can do this. Let's not resort to cutting the hands off our workers but instead rehabilitate them into better citizens.

Complete BS - The OP accountancy skills don't absolve him of the crime he committed, if he was a cleaner or road sweeper would you feel the same? Frankly the recession has nothing to do with this thread but as you brought it up - It was financial wizardry that help get the country into the mess it's in - 110% mortgages, 6 time your income borrowing limits and so on.

*********************************************************

In November I posted this in another thread

wrote:

My aunt a pensioner in her 70's was attacked two weeks ago after withdrawing money from her bank. I have just received a phone call that she has passed away, I have no doubt in my mind her assault lead to her death.... she was perfectly healthy prior to the attack. Should the c*nts who attacked her be caught they will more than likely get an assault charge if even that..

CCTV (and phone)footage have lead to an arrested and it appears it was not a robbery but a rather "happy slap" attack preformed by a group of drunk (late)teens the main perpetrator being a college student(legal training no less) from a well-to-do area. The DPP file/prosecution is pending so I won't reveal much but apparently the attack was the result of a drunken dare and completely out of character for the young man concerned. He is said to remember nothing and is deeply remorseful that his actions lead an old lady being injured (broken hip). Given her age the fact the my aunt died so soon after the attack will more than likely not be consider in a legal sense but if that young man has a conscience it must be in turmoil now. The OP's crime and the crime above have a number of things in common drunk young men with good educations acting stupid possible trying to impress other equally stupid drunks and losing the run of themselves. There are consequences for actions the OP was lucky nobody got hurt - but what if the victim of his crime was hurt attempting to stop him would you all be so forgiving then ? The OP may feel hard done by but maybe should consider himself fortunate no real damage was done.

OP I'm sure you are a decent bloke and you might think I being harsh maybe even a prick. I don't get any sense of glee hearing your story, I wish you all the best for your future. A criminal record is not the end of the world, one stupid act is not the sum of a person.

Funfair

Madden Slow Hitchhiker wrote: »

For the love of god man.
He's not asking "Can I please get away with this because I'm a student?"

He's wondering whether he should appeal against a conviction which is a bit much under the given circumstances. So the guy made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. While he should be punished just as everyone else would, those circumstances need to be taken into account.
There are plenty of people out there with convictions to their name who are of good character and made a bad decision at some stage in their life. This fella appears to be one of them.

Remember that deterrence is also part of the criminal system. Is having a full on conviction on this guy's record going to deter him from offending again, any more than an adult caution would? Probably not, as he sounds like he wants to make something of his life and won't offend again anyway.
I reckon a judge will see that letting this guy get on with his work etc. by giving a caution would benefit society more than leaving the conviction and giving him employment trouble in the future, possibly for the rest of his life. All because of one mistake.

Nothing to do with his class in socety, or where he comes from, or the fact that he's in 3rd level education, or the way he speaks/dresses etc.


And finally, for that bit in bold specifically. Come down from that high horse, before you hurt yourself. Can you honestly say you have never broken the law? Doubtful. When you did, did you immediately surrender yourself to the Gardai?

No?

That's what I thought.

Good post there MunkeymanMatt ^

pirelli

UDAWINNER wrote: »

firstly, i was a student a few years ago, commerce degree from UCC..i just don't believe as a student, you have the right to break the law and not pay consequences.

I agree with you UDAWINNER. We can not excuse criminal behaviour because the student was on Frat week or Rag week or Sports social week etc. The criminal act is no less harmful and the victim remains a victim after the festivities are over.

I would have to support your view as i had to deal with Heads of college over student behaviour. There atttitude was so obnoxious and disturbing. I strongly suspect They believed in forming some kind of irish Eugenic society. I do not exaggerate. Remember the Niall McElwee lecturer from Athlone institute of technology. He was part of a academic group that were recommending that persons with any conviction even a traffic conviction should not be admitted to the institutes.

However these same people that would not prosecute students that stole/embezzled money from sports societies or other infractions instead they wanted to enforce laws against existing persons that had any past convictions. Niall McElwee and his decadent gestapo have really sunk with the ship now.

Slimey assholes like McElwee who have to micro manage people into long suffering catagories and restrict their lives are not being very conceptual.

I had a Miscarriage/Travesty of justice when i was young and have dealt with so many irish people with these eugenic views and or ex communicative ideaologies or that simply wanted to exploit irelands poor ( non existent) rehabilitation system. They have no clue about making business or International marketing or running countries finance. Irelands slimey lofty middle class got what was coming to them.

I happened to be innocent but still had to work hard like i was a guilty convict, technically I had no right to make a contract and really there was no chance of any real career. Ireland was a disorganised mess from my point of view. It was a hard life but i learned to make it into a profitable one. It's people with my talents that irelands has to turn to now. If they want to reverse the debt spiral. What people don't understand is that poverty is a crime too. I view competence over any irish middle class sense of nobility or morality as they have little if any of it.

They are so quick to sacrafice their mortal souls out of spite but they should never control anybody elses life indefinetly.

vibe666

all i see here since i last posted is chips and prejudice, we might as well be in AH. :rolleyes:

sideways mary

just to let everyone know, i was in court last week for the appeal for this case, had a very good barrister and solicitor.. got the conviction overturned and instead got the probation act and a 250euro donation to st vincent de paul. couldn't be happier!

it cost me almost 1500euro overall between legal fees and the donation, but it was worth every penny. i have a clean record now and i learned a huge lesson.. booked my j1 the day after it too, so going off to america for the summer

i will just say one thing though, its a good job i didnt read too much into the completely negative comments and people telling me it was a waste of time appealing it and that "you are a convicted thief... get used to it and move on" type comments people were making on this. it was the best decision i ever made to appeal the conviction and its such a huge weight off my shoulders now

Our man in Havana

Just goes to show how the Ned Flanders brigade can be totally wrong.

Well done Mary and enjoy your time in the USA.

sideways mary

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Just goes to show how the Ned Flanders brigade can be totally wrong.

Well done Mary and enjoy your time in the USA.

cheers thanks.. my name isnt mary im actually a guy! i just used that as my username instead of my real name haha..

MagicSean

Doesn't the U.S. Visa application ask if you've ever been arrested as opposed to convicted?

Reloc8

Jaysus.


"Criminal Convictions
Under United States visa law, people who have been arrested at anytime are required to declare the arrest when applying for a visa or when applying to enter the United States. If the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may be permanently ineligible to receive a visa. In order to travel, the applicant should apply for a visa and a waiver of the permanent ineligibility is required.

http://dublin.usembassy.gov/non-immigrant_visas/criminal-convictions.html

vibe666

well, they do already have the highest prison population per capita in the world, so they don't want to be inviting an more criminals into the country.

although from lal the cop shows you see, they do seem to have a huge number of 'just off the boat' gangsters roaming the streets, so you'd have to wonder how effective it is, assuming it's even remotely accurate, which i guess given the fact that its fictional TV shows might be in question.

Bosco boy

sideways mary wrote: »

just to let everyone know, i was in court last week for the appeal for this case, had a very good barrister and solicitor.. got the conviction overturned and instead got the probation act and a 250euro donation to st vincent de paul. couldn't be happier!

it cost me almost 1500euro overall between legal fees and the donation, but it was worth every penny. i have a clean record now and i learned a huge lesson.. booked my j1 the day after it too, so going off to america for the summer

i will just say one thing though, its a good job i didnt read too much into the completely negative comments and people telling me it was a waste of time appealing it and that "you are a convicted thief... get used to it and move on" type comments people were making on this. it was the best decision i ever made to appeal the conviction and its such a huge weight off my shoulders now

Can you tell us a little of what arguement your counsel put forward and what the judge said and by the way did you appeal the whole matter or just the severity of the sentence?

beartooth

Congrats Mary (i know not your name).

Good to hear everything worked out have a good 1 in the u.s.

blueythebear

Bosco boy wrote: »

Can you tell us a little of what arguement your counsel put forward and what the judge said and by the way did you appeal the whole matter or just the severity of the sentence?

He appealed severity only as he'd have had to have pleaded guilty for the Probation Act. I imagine an ability to get a J1 or other visa was raised in mitigation and the fact that it was a drunken prank gone wrong. I'm sure there were other circumstances cited that the OP wouldn't want to give out here for privacy reasons but the fact that he is a student (thereby has a promising future), from a good family, without previous convictions, unlikely to come before the court again would have all been mentioned.

sideways mary

blueythebear wrote: »

He appealed severity only as he'd have had to have pleaded guilty for the Probation Act. I imagine an ability to get a J1 or other visa was raised in mitigation and the fact that it was a drunken prank gone wrong. I'm sure there were other circumstances cited that the OP wouldn't want to give out here for privacy reasons but the fact that he is a student (thereby has a promising future), from a good family, without previous convictions, unlikely to come before the court again would have all been mentioned.

that sums it up exactly..

Bosco boy

blueythebear wrote: »

He appealed severity only as he'd have had to have pleaded guilty for the Probation Act. I imagine an ability to get a J1 or other visa was raised in mitigation and the fact that it was a drunken prank gone wrong. I'm sure there were other circumstances cited that the OP wouldn't want to give out here for privacy reasons but the fact that he is a student (thereby has a promising future), from a good family, without previous convictions, unlikely to come before the court again would have all been mentioned.

Shame he had to pay €1500 because a solicitor couldnt do it right the first time, just wondering what do you do if you dont have €1500 for an appeal.

Reloc8

Eh ?

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/WP07000067

Bosco boy

Eh!

It's not as freely available as it used to be!