Criminal Record Question

sideways mary

Hi everyone, new to this forum, just needed to ask a question and was hoping someone might be able to help.

Firstly, about me. Im a 22 year old male in my final year of college, on course to graduate with a 2.1 degree in business. I was working with one of the big 4 accountancy firms for 8 months on work experience last year and I was told that if i wanted to go travelling to maybe australia or america after college that they could sort me out with a job in one of the regional offices of the firm over there.. and thats where my problem/question arises.

I have a criminal conviction after one really drunken night nearly 3 years ago, cant remember much from that night but got arrested and subsequently brought to court and convicted. The offence was minor, from what i have been told I picked up a girls handbag on the ground in a nightclub, walked around with it on my shoulder, then left the club about an hour later, bouncer rings guards, me arrested, convicted on theft. Don't remember it at all and I certainly didn't mean it, but that's life.

I appealed the decision in court to remove my criminal conviction, my solicitors were a joke, firstly didn't inform me court was cancelled one day when my appeal was supposed to be on and then didn't tell me the date the appeal was actually on so I missed it. But have the option of going back to re-appeal it again in March.

As you can imagine, legal fees are starting to pile up.

Anyway, just wondering is it worth appealing it? My solicitor says theres no guarantee that the conviction will be removed when i go back to court, and it could get quite expensive.. but i REALLY don't want this thing hanging over my head, really want to get rid of it and move on with my life

Also, can i get a visa to work in Australia or America with my criminal record? Even if it is a minor offence.

Thanks for your help

MagicMarker

Well, you stole a purse, it's not a ''minor'' offense, it's theft. Why would they overturn your conviction?

Getting a visa will be difficult, probably impossible when it comes to the U.S.

sideways mary

Yeah true, I dont remember it nor did i mean it but in black and white thats what it is, it is theft. I dont know what came over me that night, dont remember a thing. The girl who owned the handbag got everything back, I apologised to everyone concerned the next day, guards included. I just think it might be overturned because unlike 90% of the people with criminal records, I actually have a promising future and havent been on the dole since leaving school. Just thought that they would take the fact that i have a great opportunity to work with a huge firm in a different country and the fact that i havent got in any trouble whatsoever in the past 3 years into consideration. Just thought they might take circumstances into consideration, that single drunken mistake could potentially ruin my career which annoys me a bit when i see fellas pucking the heads off each and vandalising things every weekend and get away with warnings..

Wolfe Tone

unlike 90% of the people with criminal records, I actually have a promising future and havent been on the dole since leaving school.

Thats not a fair thing to say.


You stole the handbag, simple as, why would it be overturned? Cause you go to college?

MagicSean

Have you never been in trouble before? Never received an adult caution?

Mr McBoatface

You got pissed out of your head, you stole something and you admit as much. You displayed a lack of self control then and now you are displaying an extraordinary level of arrogance by appealing the court decision which was correct just because in your opinion you have a "promising future".

You've have to deal with the consequence of your crime - you are a convicted thief (albeit an educated one) there is nothing to appeal against. Grow a set... accept that you where stupid and move on. It's not the end of the world.

As for a VISA application you'll never know until you apply for it but I believe both countries you mentioned have become very strict in recent years.

If the above sounds harsh it's for your benefit, your solicitors probably know you have not got a chance in hell but they are willing to take your money if you are silly enough to give it to them.

sideways mary

alright so, I just can't understand how other people who deliberatly beat the **** out of someone else get let go with cautions and what not.

Im not sure how I displayed any levels of arrogance? Im not a solicitor or anything, i just wanted to appeal the decision because i didnt want that hanging over me, thats all. I thought the fact that I hadnt any previous convictions or crimes and the fact that the guards said in court that i was very cooperative and apologetic and was just really intoxicated might have helped me but obviously not.

MagicSean

sideways mary wrote: »

alright so, I just can't understand how other people who deliberatly beat the **** out of someone else get let go with cautions and what not.

Im not sure how I displayed any levels of arrogance? Im not a solicitor or anything, i just wanted to appeal the decision because i didnt want that hanging over me, thats all. I thought the fact that I hadnt any previous convictions or crimes and the fact that the guards said in court that i was very cooperative and apologetic and was just really intoxicated might have helped me but obviously not.

where you offered an adult caution?

Zambia

Yeah dude theft is a biggy however as there is no Jail time Australia might still be open to you I will ask on the BE forum as its an intresting one.

As this is the legal discussion forum. Here in R V Murray 1980* it is basically stated by the judge that even if drunkness is used as a defence the fact a person was drunk it does not mean they did not mean to do what they did.

The fact you picked up a handbag not and left the club with it does not bode well IMO as even when I am shot to **** I know I have no business with a girls handbag (except thursday nights)

You should ask the question on Britishexpats.com

Basically state your case , chances are some Pom has done this as well

Mr McBoatface

I agree the criminal system is a joke and for what ever reason repeat offenders seem to get off lightly but that doesn't change the fact you committed a crime and where found guilty of it (or did you plead guilty ?)

If you felt your conviction was unjust you should have appealed it at the time and not 3 years later. Appealing it now because just because you have learned/realised the conviction might impede your future and not because the conviction was unjust seem arrogant to me. Comments like "really want to get rid of it and move on with my life" and "I just think it might be overturned because unlike 90% of the people with criminal records, I actually have a promising future and havent been on the dole since leaving school" also seem arrogant IMO.

I'm sorry if I come across very harsh but there is alot wrong with our society, an unwillingness across all levels of society to accept responsibility for ones personal actions is IMO a big problem that affects this country greatly. Your posts screams of a attitude I hate - "I know I was wrong but It wasn't my fault really and other do worse and get away with it .......so why can't I"

McCrack

OP can I ask on what grounds are you appealing this conviction?

sideways mary

jobyrne30 wrote: »

I agree the criminal system is a joke and for what ever reason repeat offenders seem to get off lightly but that doesn't change the fact you committed a crime and where found guilty of it (or did you plead guilty ?)

If you felt your conviction was unjust you should have appealed it at the time and not 3 years later. Appealing it now because just because you have learned/realised the conviction might impede your future and not because the conviction was unjust seem arrogant to me. Comments like "really want to get rid of it and move on with my life" and "I just think it might be overturned because unlike 90% of the people with criminal records, I actually have a promising future and havent been on the dole since leaving school" also seem arrogant IMO.

I'm sorry if I come across very harsh but there is alot wrong with our society, an unwillingness across all levels of society to accept responsibility for ones personal actions is IMO a big problem that affects this country greatly. Your posts screams of a attitude I hate - "I know I was wrong but It wasn't my fault really and other do worse and get away with it .......so why can't I"

I did appeal it straight away, straight away after i leaving court 3 years ago i told my solicitor i wanted to appeal it. I was told i was back in the circuit court just over a year later, went in that day, no one there, court was cancelled due to lack of judges but no one informed me. The next time i was supposed to be in court was last November but again, my solicitor didn't inform me so obviously i missed it and had to contact my solicitor and appeal it again.

I completely admit what i did was wrong, I'll 100% admit to that, it was a completely stupid thing to do and i regret it every day since. Just when I was younger maybe i didn't have the cop on to realise when something was a stupid idea or not, but something like that will never happen again. Even though it makes no difference, in every aspect of my life apart from that night I am the least 'criminal' person ever. I coach kids in soccer, help out my elderly neighbours.. etc.. It just annoys me that i made one stupid decision one night when out of my mind with drink that overrules everything i have ever done and brands me a criminal forever. But i suppose that's life, have no one to blame but myself..

detective

k_mac keeps asking you a very relevant question but you seem to be ignoring/missing it. were you offered a caution. if it happened three years ago then you may have just about missed the boat but only just. if this is the case i feel for you. we all make stupid decisions whilst drunk and everyone deserves a second chance. i want to ask an important question - did you fully contest in the district court and make witnesses/injured party give evidence?

MagicSean

detective wrote: »

k_mac keeps asking you a very relevant question but you seem to be ignoring/missing it. were you offered a caution. if it happened three years ago then you may have just about missed the boat but only just. if this is the case i feel for you. we all make stupid decisions whilst drunk and everyone deserves a second chance. i want to ask an important question - did you fully contest in the district court and make witnesses/injured party give evidence?

Thank you. I wasn't planning on asking again. You raise an interesting point though. If the op was too early for an adult caution would this be grounds for appeal to overturn the conviction in favour of an adult caution?

Bosco boy

I've a feeling the case was contested initially and the op lost, hence no adult caution if it was available.

MagicSean

Bosco boy wrote: »

I've a feeling the case was contested initially and the op lost, hence no adult caution if it was available.

I'd say you're right. But I wonder if it would be possible for a person who had pleaded guilty to return to court and have a conviction quashed in favour of an adult caution.

detective

Bosco boy wrote: »

I've a feeling the case was contested initially and the op lost, hence no adult caution if it was available.

if thats the case my sympathy will have diminished somewhat, completely actually.

detective

k_mac wrote: »

I'd say you're right. But I wonder if it would be possible for a person who had pleaded guilty to return to court and have a conviction quashed in favour of an adult caution.

not a hope, court can't act retrospectively.in the same way gardai cant charge someone for something that wasnt an offence when it occurred, civilians cant avail of it either. however, in the sense that judges can do almost anything they wish then maybe it would be possible if the judge took it into account (which he shouldn't).

pirelli

OP... I think you should appeal. Ireland has no rehabilitation act. A person of good standing such as yourself should be entitled to a spent conviction. It would also mean that you can not be blackmailed or have your conviction wrongly revealed. Your being judged on this forum and being called arrogant for example.

You might argue that your punishment is overly harsh due to the fact ireland has no rehabilitation act in place. If it had then you would be able to work more productively and it's now that ireland desperately needs talented persons in finance.

I am sure given a chance you would repay your victim and apologise to her and have learned in hindsight that how you treated her was wrong and hurtful and i suppose there is only so much the courts can do for you but after 7 years that conviction should be at the very least spent.

Tom Young

pirelli wrote: »

OP... I think you should appeal. Ireland has no rehabilitation act. A person of good standing such as yourself should be entitled to a spent conviction. It would also mean that you can not be blackmailed or have your conviction wrongly revealed. Your being judged on this forum and being called arrogant for example.

You might argue that your punishment is overly harsh due to the fact ireland has no rehabilitation act in place. If it had then you would be able to work more productively and it's now that ireland desperately needs talented persons in finance.

I am sure given a chance you would repay your victim and apologise to her and have learned in hindsight that how you treated her was wrong and hurtful and i suppose there is only so much the courts can do for you but after 7 years that conviction should be at the very least spent.

I think this is a little bit too ideal world scenario. These matters are processed like a conveyor belt on a supermarket queue. I'm not judging the OP or you Pirelli but the reality needs to be faced up to.

Tom

Bosco boy

pirelli wrote: »

OP... I think you should appeal. Ireland has no rehabilitation act. A person of good standing such as yourself should be entitled to a spent conviction. It would also mean that you can not be blackmailed or have your conviction wrongly revealed. Your being judged on this forum and being called arrogant for example.

You might argue that your punishment is overly harsh due to the fact ireland has no rehabilitation act in place. If it had then you would be able to work more productively and it's now that ireland desperately needs talented persons in finance.

I am sure given a chance you would repay your victim and apologise to her and have learned in hindsight that how you treated her was wrong and hurtful and i suppose there is only so much the courts can do for you but after 7 years that conviction should be at the very least spent.

Are you suggesting a two tier system where the wealthy and fortunate are treated differently to the poor and unfortunate, a convicted thief is a convicted thief regardless of who their daddy is or where they come from. I'm all for minor convictions to be erased after a certain period but not because of who you are.

McCrack

OP you havent answered my question to you..on what grounds are you appealling?

Also I'm going to add an opinion here, I think there is more to this than what you describe or indeed you own repute.

A conviction in the circumstances as you describe seems unduly harsh so I am thinking there is more to this.

Zambia

It appears this may not stop you entering Australia

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/79character.htm

However I can imagine you would love to not have to plead your case

spurs2010

This may need a thread on its own. I see a lot of references to adult cautions.

I would never ever accept an adult caution ...... If you sign for one it is sent to Garda Vetting and resulted as such that the person the subject of the caution was in trouble and admitted it.

It is not a criminal court conviction but the Commissioner views it as a solved crime so guess what when any prospective employer does a background check what crops up....... you guessed it the adult caution.

Talk to a court solicitor who knows what he's at.;)

MagicSean

spurs2010 wrote: »

This may need a thread on its own. I see a lot of references to adult cautions.

I would never ever accept an adult caution ...... If you sign for one it is sent to Garda Vetting and resulted as such that the person the subject of the caution was in trouble and admitted it.

It is not a criminal court conviction but the Commissioner views it as a solved crime so guess what when any prospective employer does a background check what crops up....... you guessed it the adult caution.

Talk to a court solicitor who knows what he's at.;)

A background check?

Reloc8

The grounds to appeal a conviction do not necessarily have to be that a person contests their guilt of the offence - it is very common that a convicted person with an otherwise clean record and good history appeals with a view to asking the judge on appeal to apply the Probation Act.

OP - if you have never been in any trouble before, as far as the courts are concerned, there is every substantive merit in appealing the conviction.
It may seem expensive but the consequences of the conviction for work and other purposes are capable of being severe.

I leave the moral "judgments" to others, safe in the knowledge that this thread will not lack them. People who never made mistakes, or never had someone close to them take a wrong turn in life, are fortunate to live outside of the greenhouse and can chuck rocks to their heart's content.

Any person convicted has a right of appeal, both against severity and finding of guilt. Asking the OP to take a moral decision that he won't avail of his legal remedies in a situation like this is so ridiculously sanctimonious as to hardly bear belief.

By the way it is blatantly obvious that the OP in this case pleaded guilty in the District Court to the offence.

Kate P

Bosco boy wrote: »

I've a feeling the case was contested initially and the op lost, hence no adult caution if it was available.

I think you've the chronology all wrong there - the caution comes before or instead of a court appearance and plea. It may be that the Probation Act wouldn't be applied if the case was contested but that's an entirely different matter.

Kate P

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/law_enforcement/adult_cautioning_scheme.html

All the details are here.

MagicSean

Kate P wrote: »

I think you've the chronology all wrong there - the caution comes before or instead of a court appearance and plea. It may be that the Probation Act wouldn't be applied if the case was contested but that's an entirely different matter.

But if he pleaded not guilty he probably refused the adult caution.

billyhead

spurs2010 wrote: »

This may need a thread on its own. I see a lot of references to adult cautions.

I would never ever accept an adult caution ...... If you sign for one it is sent to Garda Vetting and resulted as such that the person the subject of the caution was in trouble and admitted it.

It is not a criminal court conviction but the Commissioner views it as a solved crime so guess what when any prospective employer does a background check what crops up....... you guessed it the adult caution.

Talk to a court solicitor who knows what he's at.;)

I was informed an Adult caution does not show up on a background check

Reloc8

sideways mary wrote: »

I thought the fact that I hadnt any previous convictions or crimes and the fact that the guards said in court that i was very cooperative and apologetic and was just really intoxicated might have helped me but obviously not.

sideways mary wrote: »

I completely admit what i did was wrong, I'll 100% admit to that, it was a completely stupid thing to do and i regret it every day since. J

k_mac wrote: »

But if he pleaded not guilty he probably refused the adult caution.

Fairly obvious having regard to the bit in bold above (and the other stuff but mostly that bit) that he pleaded guilty, I would think.

MagicSean

Reloc8 wrote: »

Fairly obvious having regard to the bit in bold above (and the other stuff but mostly that bit) that he pleaded guilty, I would think.

Not really. Lots of people discover remorse when they see the effects of a conviction. And being cooperative with Gardaí does not mean pleading guilty.

Reloc8

I'm sure in your experience in the gardai you would have noted that it is rare and unusual for the prosecuting member to deal with the case in the terms described otherwise than on a plea of guilty.

With that said, it has not been confirmed so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway the direct question asked was is it worth appealing, to which the answer is simply yes.

Whether the OP should get any benefit from an appeal is a matter for a judge.

vibe666

Tom Young wrote: »

I think this is a little bit too ideal world scenario. These matters are processed like a conveyor belt on a supermarket queue. I'm not judging the OP or you Pirelli but the reality needs to be faced up to.

Tom

anyone can inadvertantly get into trouble with the law at some stage in their life, be it a minor or some types of major offence. allowing those people who are in otherwise good standing who make one foolish mistake and get themselves into a bit of trouble once to have the opportunity to keep their nose clean for several years and eventually 'shed' a conviction that has been hanging over them seems like a great idea to me.

or does nobody deserve any second chances in life ever?

MagicSean

Reloc8 wrote: »

I'm sure in your experience in the gardai you would have noted that it is rare and unusual for the prosecuting member to deal with the case in the terms described otherwise than on a plea of guilty.

I've been in court many times when a person has been found guilty of an offence. The solicitor will usually bring up their cooperation with the Gardaí during arrest and detention as part of their mitigation.

vibe666 wrote: »

anyone can inadvertantly get into trouble with the law at some stage in their life, be it a minor or some types of major offence. allowing those people who are in otherwise good standing who make one foolish mistake and get themselves into a bit of trouble once to have the opportunity to keep their nose clean for several years and eventually 'shed' a conviction that has been hanging over them seems like a great idea to me.

or does nobody deserve any second chances in life ever?

Thats the reasoning behind the introduction of the adult caution, as well as court orders for charitable donations and probation act. It's very rare that a person with no criminal history will leave court with a conviction for a drunken mistake.

vibe666

k_mac wrote: »

Thats the reasoning behind the introduction of the adult caution, as well as court orders for charitable donations and probation act. It's very rare that a person with no criminal history will leave court with a conviction for a drunken mistake.

its not just drunken mistakes tho, there's plenty of different crimes that an otherwise upstanding citizen could have committed that would demand a criminal conviction, but that doesn't mean that the person should be tarred for life for a single mistake no matter what they do from that point on to turn their life around and try and make up for that one mistake.

i'm not saying that all convictions should mandatorily be 'spent' after x no. of years, but there should at least be an option for a judge to apply an optional spent addendum to the conviction so that after say 7 years of the convicted person staying out of trouble it's closed for good and locked away and cannot be used in anything except in future (potential) criminal proceedings.

Bosco boy

vibe666 wrote: »

its not just drunken mistakes tho, there's plenty of different crimes that an otherwise upstanding citizen could have committed that would demand a criminal conviction, but that doesn't mean that the person should be tarred for life for a single mistake no matter what they do from that point on to turn their life around and try and make up for that one mistake.

i'm not saying that all convictions should mandatorily be 'spent' after x no. of years, but there should at least be an option for a judge to apply an optional spent addendum to the conviction so that after say 7 years of the convicted person staying out of trouble it's closed for good and locked away and cannot be used in anything except in future (potential) criminal proceedings.

I wonder how the judge got it so wrong in the OP's case, Maybe cause the judge heard the true facts/evidence and being the judge decided it merited a conviction, the op has been asked to clarify a few simple questions and has as of yet no done so. If he was so innocent i think he'd be here fighting his corner.

Reloc8

This is verging on the ridiculous. At no stage has the OP asserted his innocence on this board, or sought to 'fight his corner' on the basis of being innocent.

There is an inappropriate sense of judgmental glee beginning to manifest itself in some of the responses to the quite specific query raised, and it is difficult not to conclude that it is connected with the professional roles filled by posters in 'real life'.

Its all well and good until its yourself or someone close to you who makes a stupid mistake. Going on what has been posted here, you'd be telling that person not to exercise their legal remedies as well.

Bosco boy

if you want to get personal, In my professional capacity I have encountered many in the upper classes who adopt an attitude that the laws of the land only apply to the lower classes and express shock horror that they are before the courts when there are real criminals out there, the laws apply to everyone equally. If you do the crime you do the time. The op was asked to clarify a few simple questions and has not bothered to reply, that's what I meant by fighting his corner. I'm all for certain convictions to be erased over time, but not because of what social class you belong to. I take no glee as you say in his prediciment, but It was not a victimless crime and I don't believe we are getting the full story.

MagicSean

Reloc8 wrote: »

This is verging on the ridiculous. At no stage has the OP asserted his innocence on this board, or sought to 'fight his corner' on the basis of being innocent.

There is an inappropriate sense of judgmental glee beginning to manifest itself in some of the responses to the quite specific query raised, and it is difficult not to conclude that it is connected with the professional roles filled by posters in 'real life'.

Its all well and good until its yourself or someone close to you who makes a stupid mistake. Going on what has been posted here, you'd be telling that person not to exercise their legal remedies as well.

I don't see this judgemental glee you refer to. I think that he should be able to appeal if he had not been offered the chance of an adult caution and even if it happened before the adult caution scheme.

Johnny Utah

Reloc8 wrote: »

The grounds to appeal a conviction do not necessarily have to be that a person contests their guilt of the offence - it is very common that a convicted person with an otherwise clean record and good history appeals with a view to asking the judge on appeal to apply the Probation Act.

OP - if you have never been in any trouble before, as far as the courts are concerned, there is every substantive merit in appealing the conviction.
It may seem expensive but the consequences of the conviction for work and other purposes are capable of being severe.

I leave the moral "judgments" to others, safe in the knowledge that this thread will not lack them. People who never made mistakes, or never had someone close to them take a wrong turn in life, are fortunate to live outside of the greenhouse and can chuck rocks to their heart's content.

Any person convicted has a right of appeal, both against severity and finding of guilt. Asking the OP to take a moral decision that he won't avail of his legal remedies in a situation like this is so ridiculously sanctimonious as to hardly bear belief.

By the way it is blatantly obvious that the OP in this case pleaded guilty in the District Court to the offence.

Spot on (as usual) Reloc8.

Reloc8 wrote: »

This is verging on the ridiculous. At no stage has the OP asserted his innocence on this board, or sought to 'fight his corner' on the basis of being innocent.

There is an inappropriate sense of judgmental glee beginning to manifest itself in some of the responses to the quite specific query raised, and it is difficult not to conclude that it is connected with the professional roles filled by posters in 'real life'.

Its all well and good until its yourself or someone close to you who makes a stupid mistake. Going on what has been posted here, you'd be telling that person not to exercise their legal remedies as well.

Noticed that too on a lot of threads in the legal discussion forum.

Bosco boy

Maybe certain professions should be banned so johnny

sideways mary

Hi sorry havent been online in a few days, was surprised to see it got so many replies! thanks for the interest.

I appealed it, under guidance from my solicitor, that a criminal conviction was an unfair punishment for the offence i commited. He said that a warning and a donation to the courts poor box would have been fairer. To be honest, i'd donate any amount of money that i could possibly afford to the poor box just to get rid of the conviction, just dont want it hanging over my head.

I never pleaded my innocence with regard to what happened, at the time it happend i was too pissed drunk to even talk let alone know what i was doing. I admitted I left the nightclub with the bag, even though i don't remember it whatsoever. My solicitor just said it was completely out of character for me and that it was a complete one off case, i was highly intoxicated at the time and regretted it deeply.. which is true.

The guards in court that day said that I was very cooperative and polite with the guards that night and was apologetic. Also that i was very intoxicated and had no previous convictions.

It isnt a case of it being too long since the offence happened. I appealed the case STRAIGHT AWAY, the day after the court day i think. I was called back to court in May 2009, only to find out when i walk in that court was cancelled and my solicitor had never informed me. I then got a letter in the post ago saying my case was in court In November 2010, of course again, my solicitor didn't inform me. So I went into the court office and solicitor and said that I wasnt informed about the court case and that I wish to appeal it. At the moment my solicitor tells me that I should be up in the circuit court in march for the appeal.

At the moment its looking at around 2000euro in legal costs, 2 days in court, 3 years of worry and regret and then whatever fine or hopefully poorbox donation I get when i go back to court. All for one drunken night.. the level of regret and shame i feel is unbelievable. I feel that the costs and experiences i have gone through is enough punishment, to say i learned my lesson is an understatement. So, although i know what i did was wrong and foolish, i'll be absolutely shattered and devasted if my conviction still stands after all of this. And if it does then i'll have to accept it and move on. thats life.

vibe666

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Spot on (as usual) Reloc8.

ditt, +1.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Noticed that too on a lot of threads in the legal discussion forum.

not just the legal forum, it's rife all over boards.ie, high horses abound and lots of people living in glass houses too i'd imagine.

Bosco boy wrote: »

Maybe certain professions should be banned so johnny

no, not banned, just undertaken with a certain level of professionalism. the clue is in the name.

i don't recall the OP making any claims to be of a particular class at all, only that he is a law student of otherwise good standing who has the potential to make something of his life if he can get out from under his one stupid mistake that got him in trouble with the law.

he has admitted his mistake and paid the price for it. all he is looking for is a way to remove the black cloud from over his head so he can move on with his life and not let a drunken teenage mistake haunt him for the rest of his life.

this may come as a shock to you bosco, but the law isn't always fair and it isn't always right.

Bosco boy

Were you offered an adult caution? did the judge give a reason why they were recording a conviction even though it was your first offence?

sideways mary

vibe666 wrote: »

i don't recall the OP making any claims to be of a particular class at all, only that he is a law student of otherwise good standing who has the potential to make something of his life if he can get out from under his one stupid mistake that got him in trouble with the law.

he has admitted his mistake and paid the price for it. all he is looking for is a way to remove the black cloud from over his head so he can move on with his life and not let a drunken teenage mistake haunt him for the rest of his life.

this may come as a shock to you bosco, but the law isn't always fair and it isn't always right.

That sums it up 100%.. spot on. I never said i am in any way better than anyone else. I come from a working class backround, not that it matters anyway, if people think i made any reference to my social standing or anything like that it was probably relating to me saying that I am in my final year in college, on course for a really good level degree, with good work experience and CV. All of which i worked hard to get myself. I just want this conviction for something I did in first year in college when i was 19 not to cast a dark cloud over everything positive i have done in life so far..

Bosco boy

Vibe 666 if you would care to expand on the glasshouses part I'd be interested?

sideways mary

Bosco boy wrote: »

Were you offered an adult caution? did the judge give a reason why they were recording a conviction even though it was your first offence?

the judge gave no reason whatsoever into the decision he made, in fact i think the only thing he said regarding my case was along the lines of €200 fine, 90 days to pay it... etc.. i wasnt offered an adults caution

Bosco boy

sideways mary wrote: »

the judge gave no reason whatsoever into the decision he made, in fact i think the only thing he said regarding my case was along the lines of €200 fine, 90 days to pay it... etc.. i wasnt offered an adults caution

You probally should have been considered for an adult caution, it should have been available at the time, I think it was 3 years ago. In fairness I think it was someone else who mentioned a certain social standing. I believe everyone should be treated equally, that's my point. It's worth a try and best of luck!

MagicSean

I think the social standing stuff came from post number 3 were the op said that unlike 90% of people with a criminal record he had a promising future.

Op you should find out the date adult cautions were introduced and see if your incident was before or after.

Laisurg

Wow a lot of people being dickheads in this thread...
But at the end of the day the justice system in this country is bollocks, did u actually take the bag out of the club? or were u just walking around with it on ur shoulder pissed? If you didn't take it out you might have a shot but if you actually took it outside it could be tough.