Training - how much / what type

CramCycle

My aim for the year is to clear a minimum of one 200km event per month. No real training as such, just going to go out and get it done by whatever means possible. Hitting on average of 125km a week in work commuting.

We received a "WATTCYCLE" in work the other day and I plan to do an hour or two to measure my fitness every Wednesday (I have about 5 hours sort of free in the middle of the day). Might post up the results it looks interesting. I can't find it online so i will post pictures next week. Might also get the gas analyser and the heart rate monitor going simultaneously to have a crack at looking at the effect on my metabolism.

Other than that here are the events I intend to do but have to qualify for the big one in the middle:

January: 28th Dying Light Permanent DONE alot slower than I would have liked but I blame that on a run of punctures and the atrocious roadworks between St.Margarets and Garristown (also the fact that I am well out of shape after Christmas).

February: 26th Slievemann 200

March: 13th Ardattin 200
26th Pink Elephant 200

April: 9th Hollywood 300
22nd Easter Fleche A team is under construction if anyone else is interested, looking at between 400 and 450km

May: 7th REK 400.
22nd Mick Byrne 200

June: 4th Red Line/Red Lane 600
11th Four Counties 600 Only one of these two will be happening so it is a matter of what is happening work wise etc

July: 2nd Around Down 200 An area I have done no cycling in and would love too, first time it is being run AFAIK
9th Surf And Turf 300
30th The Brown Stuff 400

August: 21st Paris-Brest-Paris The only event I need to do qualifying for and after much disappointment last year I am eager to qualify, this is my big event for the year

September: 24th The Dying Sow 300 Slept in last year and ended up only getting the 200 Dying Cow done on the day, will correct that this year

October: 29th The Dying Light 200 Beautiful flat route and there are Hot Ports afterwards (at least there better be, the thought of them shaved 3hours of my other 200km time last year

November: 13th Lumpy 200.

December: I will probably head out on the Dying Light again to finish off the year on the first day above zero in the month of December.

Depending on the misses attitude there maybe more done but it's unlikely but suppose I should spend a bit of time with her

niceonetom

cantalach wrote: »

I read Fignon's book over Christmas and he says he used something akin to supercompensation in the lead in to his first Milan-San Remo win. Just a few days before the race, he rode over 200km on just a light breakfast.

I've heard about that too, but it's not a crash block or supercompensation thing, it's something else entirely.

I think the theory is that for absolute maximum glycogen storage you need to totally empty the tank before filling it again. That would be a priority for a 300km race like Milan-San Remo where resilience is the name of the game. I don't know if there's any science to back that up - the whole carboloading area is a bit contentious I think and lots of what was taken for granted in the 80s is questionable now. It's an even higher risk strategy than a crash block as it would rely on the rider having the powers of recovery of, well, Laurent Fignon. We'd likely end up bonked and take a week to recover.

billy.fish

niceonetom wrote: »

I think the theory is that for absolute maximum glycogen storage you need to totally empty the tank before filling it again. That would be a priority for a 300km race like Milan-San Remo where resilience is the name of the game. I don't know if there's any science to back that up - the whole carboloading area is a bit contentious I think and lots of what was taken for granted in the 80s is questionable now. It's an even higher risk strategy than a crash block as it would rely on the rider having the powers of recovery of, well, Laurent Fignon. We'd likely end up bonked and take a week to recover.

*sharp intake of breath through teeth*

Yeah.....no.....

The idea is kinda there, but the issue is repletion of the intramuscular glycogen stores. TBH fasted/starvation training is something that has been around for years in martahon and any ultraendurance event. The science behind it isn't sketchy its just very hard to study without muscle biopsies and getting people to do that post glycogen depletion .is...dodge...they tend to be borderline hypoglycemic coma when it happens.

In short...dont do it. it has no place in training.

As for carbo loading....its a very outdated and dis proven idea from the 70;s

*awaits abuse*

chakattack

billy.fish wrote: »

*sharp intake of breath through teeth*

Yeah.....no.....

The idea is kinda there, but the issue is repletion of the intramuscular glycogen stores. TBH fasted/starvation training is something that has been around for years in martahon and any ultraendurance event. The science behind it isn't sketchy its just very hard to study without muscle biopsies and getting people to do that post glycogen depletion .is...dodge...they tend to be borderline hypoglycemic coma when it happens.

In short...dont do it. it has no place in training.

As for carbo loading....its a very outdated and dis proven idea from the 70;s

*awaits abuse*

Hi Billy,

Always enjoy your posts...great to see some evidence and experience thrown in to counter all the speculation and myth.

Can you expand more about carbo loading?

I'm guessing, your muscles (and liver?) have a limited capacity for glycogen storage and once you meet that there is no point going crazy on the pasta?

billy.fish

I like to talk.

Suppose the basis for some modern belife that CHO loading is useless comes from two areas:

1) INtramuscular capacity to store glycogen is limited by training state
2) Uptake of CHO to replete these stores is not limited persay, but the rate that they get depleted is

So in case 1: Unless you are very very very well trained depleating a minimal store that you tend not to draw off anyway has no purpose. More or less untrained (Vo2max<50-60ml.kg.min-1) individuals will be pulling so much energy from exogenous CHO sources above intramuscular that it makes no difference.

Case 2: You are better working on this than working on depleating stores, the more efficient you can become at utilising a lower fraction of the rate limited* 1.2g of CHO.min-1 you can pull down at a higher intensity the more likely you are to be able to turn onto exogenous stores at a later stage.

So uncle Greg says: CHO depletion ; great if you're very well trained, if not, get more efficient at using CHO at lower intensities (ie being frugal)



*this....is a very different topic to talk about

petethedrummer

Who shot who in the what now?

I think I preferred training when it was endless laps and not being allowed to drink water cos it sloshed around in your stomach.

Lumen

I think billy.fish is saying in English: untrained riders get most of their energy from food, because the energy stores in their muscles (and presumably liver glycogen and fat burning ability) are limited. But you can only digest so much food, so if you want to ride fast over distance you should work on basic training rather than getting all fancy with starving yourself.

You need to conserve your muscle energy stores for the high intensity efforts, because at those efforts the food & fat contribution is relatively low.

thebouldwhacker

@ ROK & Cantalach, are either of ye doing the 100k Clonmel to Killkenny on Sat?
It would be good to meet and get some pointers as I am planning (depending on the employment situation) to do the TdM too.

cantalach

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

@ ROK & Cantalach, are either of ye doing the 100k Clonmel to Killkenny on Sat?
It would be good to meet and get some pointers as I am planning (depending on the employment situation) to do the TdM too.

I'll be there. I'm a tall guy on a very muddy but theoretically black Cervélo RS. As far as I know, places for the '11 TdM are now full so if you haven't committed (and paid a deposit to PS by 25th Feb) you'll be on the waiting list. That said, places usually come available between now and August so provided you're not too far down the waiting list you should be alright.

thebouldwhacker

I should know by the end of next week what the future holds, I'm keeping him up to date going forward with my personal economic climate.
I missed out last year so fingers crossed it goes well this time.

I have a blue trek 1.2 and will probably be wearing a smart and quite complementary pair of LOOK bib tights, which are also blue, so just look for the tall smurf... at the back most likely:o. Weather looks promising so looking forward to the spin....
Any idea of the route? I'm guessing we'll go through fedard?

karlmyson

Hiya bould, I'll be there too, on a matt black Canyon. Dayglo blue Assos jacket also which I just about fit into (working on that ) Good to put faces on boardsies. It'll be a shade more than 100k too I expect, more like 120k.

seve65

hi guys, whats the clonmel-tipp event tomorrow, what time and where do you see that listed ? Cheers.:)

karlmyson

seve, it's the first outing in 2011 (a calibration spin) for people riding the Tour de Munster in August. As such, it's a closed event.

ROK ON

seve65 wrote: »

hi guys, whats the clonmel-tipp event tomorrow, what time and where do you see that listed ? Cheers.:)

We could tell you, but we'd have to kill you.
Its like the masons.

seve65

ah sure, I will have to devise my own treat then :P

hope you all have a good day out and enjoy practising your funny hand signals then !

seve65

ps enjoy the 83.7 miles and 3300 ft of climbs .;)

billy.fish

Lumen wrote: »

I think billy.fish is saying in English: untrained riders get most of their energy from food, because the energy stores in their muscles (and presumably liver glycogen and fat burning ability) are limited. But you can only digest so much food, so if you want to ride fast over distance you should work on basic training rather than getting all fancy with starving yourself.

You need to conserve your muscle energy stores for the high intensity efforts, because at those efforts the food & fat contribution is relatively low.

yeah...kinda....

But yeah...that'll do pig, that'll do

ROK ON

I had come into 2011 with a reasonably good 10wks of base training and about 2 interval sessions per week.

Last few weeks have seen my move from base training to a build phase completely interrupted as life has Intervened.
Still doing 2 interval sessions per week, but have done no other bike work.

Q. Do I need to go straight into interval/build type sessions again. Or should I try 2 or 3 weeks of base rebuilding.

I had targeted an open race in Banteer in mid March as my first ever race. However as I have not bEen able to train with my club at all I have no skills work or group riding training done whatsoever.
No club league where I live so if I want to race it must be open racing.. Has anyone here simply turned up at a race without much fast group riding done?

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

Has anyone here simply turned up at a race without much fast group riding done?

Yes, my first open race of last year. I'd done one or two club group spins and one handicapped club race.

About 10km from the end of the race I exited the race stage left over my handlebars, fortunately avoiding anyone else.

Racing is tiring. When you get tired you can't think. Therefore, if your group riding skills depend on thinking rather than learned instinct, you may crash.

Ryder

Raced club league last year with little or no fast group riding. Found it okay especially if your goal is to just stay in the group. Be paranoid and make no move without a 360 check and youll be fine

ROK ON

Thanks for that. I will take it under advisement as to whether I should race in 5 wks or whether I should target later in season.

As to training, is it worthy after a three week hiatus ( 2 hour long interval sessions aside) to go straight into 6-7 hours of interval type work or should I try to rebuild lost endurance.
Now I hit january this year in better shape than ever from both endurance and strength point of view, so whilst I have a ways to go I don't feel I am starting from zero.

mo_bhicycle

ROK ON wrote: »

Thanks for that. I will take it under advisement as to whether I should race in 5 wks or whether I should target later in season.

I'd say just go for it!
You seem to appreciate the potential danger and have an idea of the dos and donts already.
For me it seems to be the gung-ho newbies, who think they're fit and assume it's enough, that are especially dangerous.

There's no better training for racing than racing itself. The sooner you get racing the sooner you'll be comfortable in the bunch both in terms of fitness and experience.

I had an ok level of training till before christmas and since then it's been abysmal. I'm hoping to race myself into some fitness ... probably gonna be a miserable first part of the season for me.

100Suns

+1 with mo_b. Go for it. Early season races can be a busy place so maybe stay on the left side of the bunch, no further than 3/4 way back. Moves generally go up the right, which is constantly moving like a vortex to the front. If your on the left you'll usually have a bail out area if it's hairy. Don't loiter too far back or you could get dropped without knowing it has happened and its too late. Getting back on is harder than going off the front! Best of luck with it and let us know how it goes.

niceonetom

ROK, at what race are thinking of making your début? Mick Lally?

kennyb3

ROK ON, I havent done any open races as yet (hopefully this season), but did a few club league races last year so have been in your position so all i can say is dont put it off - if you do you'll keep doing it. As was said above you'll come on more for 1 or 2 races even if you get dropped than weeks of training.

I played catch up last year due to running. Got on my bike mid may and trained hard to July before doing a race. Should have just done a race or two early June, as when i did the races i came on hugely. Even from one race to the next there is an immense difference. First one i got dropped, second one i hung on and third i went off the front only to puncture 750m from the line:mad:. Seriously just do it.

Re the safety thing as is said above just keep left, stay aware and know the course and where the turns are.

CramCycle

2 down, 10 left. Knee is pretty messed up at the minute so there has been none of the WattCycle but I will start next Thursday.

Everyone else happy so far this year?

manwithaplan

CramCycle wrote: »

Everyone else happy so far this year?

I have no idea if I am.

Over the winter, I have had a reasonable diet of fairly fast weekend club spins and week night solo rides with a bit of hill work. With a big family and a busy enough job, I tend not to get out more than one night a week. Except for the odd little shoulder and back niggle, I feel strong enough.

I haven't raced yet though. I look at the more experienced riders on my club spin and I know they have a lot more in the tank than I have. When I look at the training logs and the contributions to threads like this, I know I am very unfocused and am probably not doing enough.

Nonetheless I am itching to race. I really want to be good enough to hold my own at club league level but it might take first hand experience of the standard required before I can force myself to get scientific and get the most out of my limited training time.

(Of course summer then comes around and spins chatting with friends in the countryside become more attractive that proper training but that's another story.)

levitronix

manwithaplan wrote: »

I have no idea if I am.


(Of course summer then comes around and spins chatting with friends in the countryside become more attractive that proper training but that's another story.)

Thats the one thing i ve stayed away from the past few weeks, been training totally solo and think its benifted me a lot, will know next week where i am because im almost at the end of a hard 3 week block