Why Are Religions Tax-Exempt?

RockinRolla

Who gets the money the church raises? Surely we could put it to better uses?

partyatmygaff

RockinRolla wrote: »

Who gets the money the church raises? Surely we could put it to better uses?

The people who give money to the church give it to the Church. It's not for you to decide what use it is put to. The money goes to the running of the church and affiliated charities.

af_thefragile

RockinRolla wrote: »

Who gets the money the church raises? Surely we could put it to better uses?

The church? and all the people who work in there...


Would you rather have churches being exempt from tax or banks being exempt from tax??

RockinRolla

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The people who give money to the church give it to the Church. It's not for you to decide what use it is put to. The money goes to the running of the church and affiliated charities.

Yes, we should take all the churches money except their charity fundraising. ALL OF IT.

af_thefragile wrote: »

The church? and all the people who work in there...
Would you rather have churches being exempt from tax or banks being exempt from tax??

Who said anything about banks?

af_thefragile

RockinRolla wrote: »

Who said anything about banks?

There are banks and rich folks who get away without paying taxes. Their sum adds up to much more than the church makes. Also the church isn't a business. It works as a charity and charities are exempt from taxes.

red menace

RockinRolla wrote: »

Yes, we should take all the churches money except their charity fundraising. ALL OF IT.



Who said anything about banks?

Even the wages of the people working for the church?

partyatmygaff

RockinRolla wrote: »

Yes, we should take all the churches money except their charity fundraising.

So, how do you propose the Churches run themselves?

Trolls these days...

starbelgrade

af_thefragile wrote: »

There are banks and rich folks who get away without paying taxes. Their sum adds up to much more than the church makes. Also the church isn't a business. It works as a charity and charities are exempt from taxes.

No - it's an evil multinational corporation.

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

So, how do you propose the Churches run themselves?

Off the edge of a cliff, would be a good start.

af_thefragile

starbelgrade wrote: »

No - it's an evil multinational corporation.

Its providing a service to the people. Whatever the people give to the church, they give it out of their own free will.

It doesn't work like a bank or McDonalds where you can't get the service if you don't pay for it.

partyatmygaff

starbelgrade wrote: »

No - it's an evil multinational corporation.

Eh, what Church are you talking about exactly? Or is this just the typical old random "I hate religion!11!!1" rubbish that's always being posted on AH.

Cookie_Monster

af_thefragile wrote: »

Their sum adds up to much more than the church makes. Also the church isn't a business. It works as a charity and charities are exempt from taxes.

oh right, so is that why the Vatican is the richest state in the world then is it? Cos they're so charitable and generous?

FFS sake the church didn't even pay out for all its abuse victims, only ~120m of a 1bn+ bill (so far).

Generous to a tee. :rolleyes:

ScumLord

The church put a fictitious name on the returns to dodge it.

Kasabian

starbelgrade wrote: »

No - it's an evil multinational corporation.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Eh, what Church are you talking about exactly? Or is this just the typical old random "I hate religion!11!!1" rubbish that's always being posted on AH.

Ha ha Starbelgrade. You're in trouble now you old church basher you.

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Eh, what Church are you talking about exactly?

All of them.

af_thefragile

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

oh right, so is that why the Vatican is the richest state in the world then is it? Cos they're so charitable and generous?

FFS sake the church didn't even pay out for all the abuse victims, only ~120m of a 1bn+ bill (so far).

Generous to a tee. :rolleyes:

I'm not defending the church here. Not saying what it does is right.
I'm only saying the church is an important institution for many people in the country and it works as a charity. As long as Ireland remains a catholic state and recognises the church as a charitable organisation rather than a business, the church will remain exempt from taxes.

Sure the vatican got rich by plundering other nations. But that's a different story.

More importantly there are many wealthy people and organisations who are getting away without paying any taxes. You should target them first before targeting the church for being exempt from taxes.

The tax revenue from the church would be negligible compared to what the country would get if everyone paid their taxes properly, especially the wealthy corporations and the rich people who belong to them.

partyatmygaff

starbelgrade wrote: »

All of them.

All churches are evil multinational corporations?

I bet you'd make a fortune if you reported every church around the globe for tax evasion.

ScumLord

af_thefragile wrote: »

As long as Ireland remains a catholic state and recognises the church as a charitable organisation rather than a business, the church will remain exempt from taxes.

It's not really a Catholic country though. Most Irish people are lapse Catholics and if Catholic rules were imposed strictly the vast majority would leave the church at the moment their Catholic in nothing but name.

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

All churches are evil multinational corporations?

No.

Some of them aren't multinational.

Cookie_Monster

ScumLord wrote: »

It's not really a Catholic country though. Most Irish people are lapse Catholics and if Catholic rules were imposed strictly the vast majority would leave the church at the moment their Catholic in nothing but name.

Indeed, hopefully the census this year might finally and fully show this and we can separate the church from the state once and for all.

af_thefragile

ScumLord wrote: »

It's not really a Catholic country though. Most Irish people are lapse Catholics and if Catholic rules were imposed strictly the vast majority would leave the church at the moment their Catholic in nothing but name.

Most people consider themselves to be catholic. They go to church occasionally and all. Bigger point is most people will not agree to the church being taxed.

It is sorta funny though why most people consider themselves to be christian when they do little that a christian is supposed to.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Indeed, hopefully the census this year might finally and fully show this and we can separate the church from the state once and for all.

Doubt that. As I mentioned, most people still consider themselves to be christian catholic even though they barely follow catholicism.
The atheists/agnostics still have a long way to go before they get anywhere near the majority population.

ScumLord

af_thefragile wrote: »

Bigger point is most people will not agree to the church being taxed.

Has the public been asked? I think many would like to see it taxed.

RockinRolla

af_thefragile wrote: »

Most people consider themselves to be catholic. They go to church occasionally and all. Bigger point is most people will not agree to the church being taxed.

It is sorta funny though why most people consider themselves to be christian when they do little that a christian is supposed to.


Doubt that. As I mentioned, most people still consider themselves to be christian catholic even though they barely follow catholicism.
The atheists still have a way to go before they get anywhere near the majority population.

I'd recon most people would be in favour of taxing the church. Reap some of that 80odd billion back in no time at all.

Kasabian

Thank fcuk my church is starting on BBC1 soon.

I will pray for 3 points.

starbelgrade

Kasabian wrote: »

Thank fcuk my church is starting on BBC1 soon.

I will pray for 3 points.

If you support Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Man City, you need to pray harder.

af_thefragile

ScumLord wrote: »

Has the public been asked? I think many would like to see it taxed.

Only way to find that out is to try bringing in a bill to tax the church and see the public reaction to it. I'll assure you there will be plenty of opposition to that and even you know that.

Boards.ie doesn't really accurately represent the demographics of Ireland.

Kasabian

starbelgrade wrote: »

If you support Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Man City, you need to pray harder.

fcuk you :P I am a real supporter.

minidazzler

af_thefragile wrote: »

Most people consider themselves to be catholic. They go to church occasionally and all. Bigger point is most people will not agree to the church being taxed.

It is sorta funny though why most people consider themselves to be christian when they do little that a christian is supposed to.


Doubt that. As I mentioned, most people still consider themselves to be christian catholic even though they barely follow catholicism.
The atheists/agnostics still have a long way to go before they get anywhere near the majority population.

Given the state of the economy most people will agree to taxes that aren't taxing themselves.

partyatmygaff

ScumLord wrote: »

Has the public been asked? I think many would like to see it taxed.

You cannot tax a non-profit entity that relies almost entirely on donations. Just because you personally think the church should be taxed doesn't mean that it should.

af_thefragile

minidazzler wrote: »

Given the state of the economy most people will agree to taxes that aren't taxing themselves.

As I mentioned, its much more important to make sure all the wealthy/elite and their corporations pay their taxes properly first before you get to the church. Their sum in taxes is much larger than what the church would have.

ScumLord

af_thefragile wrote: »

Only way to find that out is to try bringing in a bill to tax the church and see the public reaction to it. I'll assure you there will be plenty of opposition to that and even you know that.

Boards.ie doesn't really accurately represent the demographics of Ireland.

Perhaps not but the tide has turned I think and while I'm sure there would be a very vocal subsection of Ireland that would complain and many more who would agree with them publicly under pressure from mammy things might be different in a private poll.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You cannot tax a non-profit entity that relies almost entirely on donations. Just because you personally think the church should be taxed doesn't mean that it should.

I wouldn't consider the church non-profit, they display their profit all over the world.

minidazzler

af_thefragile wrote: »

As I mentioned, its much more important to make sure all the wealthy/elite and their corporations pay their taxes properly first before you get to the church. Their sum in taxes is much larger than what the church would have.

I prefer to lump the church in their with the wealthy. I know of no priest that lives the life of poverty they swore an oath to. All have a warm house, plenty of clothing, plenty of food, cars, TV's and most other comforts.

They are employee's and should be taxed as such.

Kasabian

Every church should have any money they receive taxed at 99%, then eventually they will go away and free people to live.

I was raised a Catholic, raised in fear of a load of bolloxology.

Catholic religion is destructive in the moulding of young imrpressionable minds and i am not talking about it's problems with molestation, I am talking about the engrained guilt it imposes on people and in doing so doesn't allow people to live properly.
I am around a few years and i still have to check myself when that guilt tweaks my brain.

Cookie_Monster

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You cannot tax a non-profit entity that relies almost entirely on donations. .

why not?

It has earnings in the form of collections
it has expenses like wages and sweeties for luring children
it has capital costs, like the roof expense (that every church always seems to have)
and it has the dividend to Rome

sounds like a taxable service business to me

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You cannot tax a non-profit entity that relies almost entirely on donations. Just because you personally think the church should be taxed doesn't mean that it should.

You can tax anything if the government of the day pass a bill to do so.

jhegarty

minidazzler wrote: »

I prefer to lump the church in their with the wealthy. I know of no priest that lives the life of poverty they swore an oath to. All have a warm house, plenty of clothing, plenty of food, cars, TV's and most other comforts.

They are employee's and should be taxed as such.

But, they are taxed.

partyatmygaff

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't consider the church non-profit, they display their profit all over the world.

"The Church". What is "The Church"? I don't see how they display their profit all over the world, they aren't selling anything to anyone. Their only income is through voluntary donations.

partyatmygaff

minidazzler wrote: »

They are employee's and should be taxed as such.

They are taxed...

But wait, keep going on with your uninformed rants like everyone else, it's entertaining at least.

Cookie_Monster

partyatmygaff wrote: »

"The Church". What is "The Church"? I don't see how they display their profit all over the world, they aren't selling anything to anyone. Their only income is through voluntary donations.

or not in fact
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

"The Church". What is "The Church"? I don't see how they display their profit all over the world, they aren't selling anything to anyone.

Yes they are & always have done.. redemption & the promise of an afterlife.

They could sell sand to the Arabs.

If the Arabs weren't Muslim, that is.

WIZE

when i lived in Germany i had to pay church as in because i was catholic the Gov taxed me and gave it to the church :eek:

Ghandee

It has been a well known fact that religions,(Christianity in particular) have been opposed to tax for THOUSANDS of years now!

(especially since Jesus was hammered with them in Jerusalem!)

WIZE

WIZE wrote: »

when i lived in Germany i had to pay church as in because i was catholic the Gov taxed me and gave it to the church :eek:

Yep, tithing is srs bzns
No "ah yeah I don't believe any of it but I'm still catholic"

starbelgrade

Gucky wrote: »

It has been a well known fact that religions,(Christianity in particular) have been opposed to tax for THOUSANDS of years now!

(especially since Jesus was hammered with them in Jerusalem!)

I thought Jesus was hammered with nails.

Cookie_Monster

Gucky wrote: »

It has been a well known fact that religions,(Christianity in particular) have been opposed to tax for THOUSANDS of years now!

then why do they catholic church derive most of their income from it if they are so agin it?

ScumLord

partyatmygaff wrote: »

"The Church". What is "The Church"? I don't see how they display their profit all over the world, they aren't selling anything to anyone. Their only income is through voluntary donations.

They are selling things like mass cards (€10 a pop last I heard), mass itself, I'm sure there are other things too like weddings and funerals..

They display there wealth in their churches which aren't cheap not even the new ones. Our local priest drove a brand new Audi, fair enough he seems to be an exception but he flaunted his wealth like I've never seen a priest do before him.

partyatmygaff

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

or not in fact
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

Irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about the situation in Ireland.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yes they are & always have done.. redemption & the promise of an afterlife.

I don't see how they're "selling" anything. They are offering a place for a community of people to pray and practice their religion. Even so, they don't profit from any of this so long as the churchgoer doesn't make a donation.

af_thefragile

Tbh, I don't believe in organised religion so I couldn't care less if the Church was taxed.

I just say any charitable organisation shouldn't be taxed as they work on donations, not on sales.

Its like if you give your kid 100eur to spend as a gift, do you expect your kid to pay a tax on those 100eur?
Same principle.

Kasabian

WIZE wrote: »

when i lived in Germany i had to pay church as in because i was catholic the Gov taxed me and gave it to the church :eek:

I think this goes back to WW2 when the Catholic church recieved money to turn a blind eye to genocide.

thetonynator

Kasabian wrote: »

Every church should have any money they receive taxed at 99%, then eventually they will go away and free people to live.

I was raised a Catholic, raised in fear of a load of bolloxology.

Catholic religion is destructive in the moulding of young imrpressionable minds and i am not talking about it's problems with molestation, I am talking about the engrained guilt it imposes on people and in doing so doesn't allow people to live properly.
I am around a few years and i still have to check myself when that guilt tweaks my brain.

People dont need to be ''freed'' they are part of the church entirely of their own free will. (In ireland that is)

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yes they are & always have done.. redemption & the promise of an afterlife.

They could sell sand to the Arabs.

If the Arabs weren't Muslim, that is.

They do not sell the promise of an afterlife, the members of the church believe in the afterlife and the church ideas do not change depending on how much someone pays to them. Not since the reformation anyway.

starbelgrade

WIZE wrote: »

when i lived in Germany i had to pay church as in because i was catholic the Gov taxed me and gave it to the church :eek:

You could have declared that you were no longer a member of the Catholic church & you wouldn't have had to pay it.