My plan for Silage Contracting

Muckit

Tipp Man wrote: »

For me the ideal system for round bales is to have a wrapper parked up in the yard with a engine/power pack strapped onto it. Bring all bales in unwrapped and wrapping is done in the yard. It really reduces the risk of damaging bales and I think it could be a really efficient system. It only needs 2 men as well so should be cost efficient as well

I'd have to agree with you Tippman. The less handling of freshly wrapped bales the better. Where would you be going, even with two double bale carriers trying to bring that amount of bales in? You'd want a good suspension seat under your ar*e that's for sure:D The notion of loading wrapped bales onto a trailer wouldn't be a runner for me either.

Those remote engine powered wrappers do seem the biz I have to say. Why waste a tractor and driver when one of these can do the job? Use that tractor(or telehandler) /driver then to load/unload and stack. Some great clips of them in action on youtube.

13spanner

How about this idea lads?
Draw the bales to the yard before they're wrapped and use a bobcat and engine powered wrapper to wrap and stack? Would a teleporter be better? Not so many big yards around here so something tidy would be important.

red menace

My concern would be would the bobcat have the forward reach for stacking bales?
Would you be likely to tear the bottom bales when putting up the second row?
They would be a mighty machine in small yards alright
I reckon you would make one pay stacking bales and cleaning out low sheds etc.
Maybe get runs clearing snow in Carparks in the winter too
See them lots here in Canada on snow removal and every builder seems to have one at least

C0N0R

We got 400 round bales done last year in one day, all wrapped in the field, but it was all fields basically around the house. Four tractors drawing in with single bale lifters got the job done in a few hours. All put in different places so wrapping in the yard would be no interest to us. But I do agree for some people it's certainly an option. And been able to offer a unique service is such a good thing when trying to start a new business.

Will tube wrapping ever hit it off at home? Out here in nz most of the bales of silage, round and square are tube wrapped. It saves on plastic but I guess you can't stack them after though. Seem fairly simple to operate to, one guy was doing it with a bobcat just.

But whatever you do, make sure you look after your good customers, I mean the ones that pay on time and don't demand the world. For those guys you can afford to be a bit better to as there the ones who will see you through thick and thin...

rs8

iano93 wrote: »

..Why do you suggest not undercutting the competition?..(some) Contractors are making a total killing out der and no they have their customers wrapped up and charge in a way what they like..If ur only doin a small bit of work then u can still make a good bit of money by doin it a small bit less especially if its a one man job(not like contractors who have to pay a few drivers)??

For a few reasons but the main one is if you under cut most in a year or two someone will come and under cut you in price and then everybodys steping on each others toes and theres no money because your really doing it for nothing!! A good price and service so that you will be making money and the customer is happy!! best of luck

Agri contractor

Spoke to our accountant today. He said the small contractor makes just as much as the bigger contractors. The bigger the contractor the cheaper they seam to be working for with alot more expense.

Bitten & Hisses

Muckit wrote: »

The 'problem' with the Mchale fusion IMO is that it only suits the contractor. Once out the gate, the farmer then is left to shift a large number of wrapped bales which is a pain in the h*le to say the least. Trying to get arms around them and 'humour' 'em is hard at the best of times...like a woman really:D (sorry Whelan1)

Same again with the plastic issue. With the farmer supplying the wrap, what does he do with 'the bit' (€€€) left over? It might not suit him to do bales the following year if he decides to do all clamp. Why should a half roll of wrap left in the shed determine what type silage you make. Again, suiting the baling contractor nicely. Trying to judge how much you need, you could potentially end up buying an extra roll you don't need, or having to go running to get another:mad:

I suppose it could be argued that because it only takes one man to work the fusion it costs less per bale to the farmer..... or it should:rolleyes: Never was the case around us.

In fairness Muckit (not having a go at you) but any farmer who has an issue with half a roll of bale wrap being left over (a full roll costs approx €60?) has bigger problems than making silage.
For the OP looking at contracting, I would recommend going with a combi of some sort, ideally a Fusion IMO, but there are also Krone combipacks, Claas Uniwraps and Lely Welger combis. He couls then provide drawing and stacking at extra cost, using a tractor with a double rear handler and a front loader. I drew a lot of bales using this method in 2010. You would need a bale trailer for longer draws, but it would be a useful way of providing a full service without needing an extra driver and tractor.

Muckit

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

In fairness Muckit (not having a go at you) but any farmer who has an issue with half a roll of bale wrap being left over (a full roll costs approx €60?) has bigger problems than making silage. QUOTE]

No bother Bitten and Hisses:D Your entitled to their opinion. I do have a reputation for being 'tight'

red menace

Muckit wrote: »

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

In fairness Muckit (not having a go at you) but any farmer who has an issue with half a roll of bale wrap being left over (a full roll costs approx €60?) has bigger problems than making silage. QUOTE]

No bother Bitten and Hisses:D Your entitled to their opinion. I do have a reputation for being 'tight'

That half roll if you have it is great for patching bales, Way better than tape.
Seals much better and quicker with a couple of trips around the bale

ihatetractors

13spanner wrote: »

How about this idea lads?
Draw the bales to the yard before they're wrapped and use a bobcat and engine powered wrapper to wrap and stack? Would a teleporter be better? Not so many big yards around here so something tidy would be important.

A clean teleporter wouldnt be hugely expensive but she'd be a bit aulder in age. You could hitch the rapper to the teleporter tho, seen it done an its some job, small out board engine uses little or nothing. It could open up work like Dung spreading aswel??

As lads said, if you do good work you'll get regular customers, don't try grow too fast at a high cost and take other lads customers. Have your costings up todate and by sure you work in houses you get paid

Juniorhurler

reilig wrote: »

Lads, the most important thing that you need to have in place, ahead of machinery and customers is a plan or strategy to collect the money. There are hundreds of young lads across ireland that got burned big time in recent years by non payers. Contracting is a risky business - unless you are firmly established with reliable customers. I see it all the time in our area. A young lad buys a baler and wrapper and canvasses for business, the farmers that have a reliable contractor that they pay on time and regularly will not change, but the guys who owe money to several contractors for the last 10 years are glad to see a new contractor coming into the area that they can use and abuse and not pay. I have a friend who is a contractor, baling, slurry tankers and umbilical, hedge cutting and silage wagon. he has been doing it for the last 14 years. He tells me that he is owed over €100k from last year. He expects to collect much of it in the coming weeks since grants were paid, but he says that every year there is at least €15k to €20k that can be outstanding for over 12 months and at that rate, some of it is unrecoverable.

People are congratulating you for doing something positive and I don't mean to be negative, but its an expensive game and its easy to take a chance on a dodgy person if you're stuck for work. You have to be very careful. There are prowlers in every parish in the country that don't pay for anything and if you're left with a €30k overdraught for 6 months, the bank won't be long putting you on a high interest loan that could see you out a pocket. You will need to have an overdraught in place before you start to cover diesel, twine, wrap, parts and repairs etc. Remember to factor this into your budget as many farmers don't pay their contractor until their single payment comes - which can often be 6 months after the silage season.

Best of luck with it.

Ya I do a very small bit of contracting and see that the best paying customers are part time farmers and farmers with wives working in good jobs as they don't tend to be so cash strapped. Have to say though what I do pays for my gear and covers all my machinery costs for the year including payments, diesel, parts and my own silage. I do a bit of spraying, hedgecutting, slurry tanker and small machinery. Nothing too hard for my little TS100A. I do pick and choose my customers though as I am teaching full time and farming 45 acres so if I don't work the machinery I can still eat.

ihatetractors

Agri contractor wrote: »

Spoke to our accountant today. He said the small contractor makes just as much as the bigger contractors. The bigger the contractor the cheaper they seam to be working for with alot more expense.

Quite true, fathers best friend is a small contractor, bales, slurry,ploughing etc.. Does his few thousand bales, and has new jd and newish newholland and new kit in the yard. As he says, he's at the age where his two chaps won't let him do anything:rolleyes:(bar drive on the road) and he's set up well enough, he makes a few bob covering cost at the contracting and has the farm more so as a hobby at this stage.

13spanner

Right so, after having a good whip through all the posts, I've half settled on this as being more or less the most suitable for the area I'd be working:

Have a trailed conditioner with a grouper (around the 9 ft, wide enough to bring a good swath but narrow enough for the tight gates and gaps) on tractor #1. Grouping the swaths will make it twice as quick for the baler. Leave it on it the whole summer unless the tractors badly needed elsewhere.

Keep the one baler going flat out. Something with a good wide reel to take 2 nine foot swaths and flotation tyres for the clare ground :rolleyes: Leave that on tractor #2 for the whole summer, as with the mower.

Have your average wrapper goin on tractor #3, maybe one of the twin dispenser yokes mchale and connor are selling, maybe not.

On the side then do a bit of slurry and hedgecutting, maybe bobcat work as they seem to be going cheap. What do ye think of the trailing shoe for tankers? Worth getting if splashplates are on the way out?

What do ye make of that now? I know now there's serious money needed for that kind of gear but I'd be building up gradually The auld man is getting sick of the baling so I'll start where he left off. Sorry now I might be boring ye with this long hoor of a post but I thought I'd say all I have in my head as ye seem to know what ye're talking about!
13spanner

THE LINK WALSH

13spanner wrote: »

Right so, after having a good whip through all the posts, I've half settled on this as being more or less the most suitable for the area I'd be working:

Have a trailed conditioner with a grouper (around the 9 ft, wide enough to bring a good swath but narrow enough for the tight gates and gaps) on tractor #1. Grouping the swaths will make it twice as quick for the baler. Leave it on it the whole summer unless the tractors badly needed elsewhere.

Keep the one baler going flat out. Something with a good wide reel to take 2 nine foot swaths and flotation tyres for the clare ground :rolleyes: Leave that on tractor #2 for the whole summer, as with the mower.

Have your average wrapper goin on tractor #3, maybe one of the twin dispenser yokes mchale and connor are selling, maybe not.

On the side then do a bit of slurry and hedgecutting, maybe bobcat work as they seem to be going cheap. What do ye think of the trailing shoe for tankers? Worth getting if splashplates are on the way out?

What do ye make of that now? I know now there's serious money needed for that kind of gear but I'd be building up gradually The auld man is getting sick of the baling so I'll start where he left off. Sorry now I might be boring ye with this long hoor of a post but I thought I'd say all I have in my head as ye seem to know what ye're talking about!
13spanner

Appetite for the expulsion of the splash plate system of slurry spreading seems to have waned at EU level,there was a lot of hype about this 2 or 3 Years ago and a lot of trailing shoe systems were sold on the back of it,if the rules being talked about then were enforced the splash plate would be gone as of last Week but that hasnt happened and isnt going toin the next 3 or 4 Years by the looks of things.If it does a huge grant will need to be brought in to assist farmers to scrap thier machines,very very few of the standard tankers on farms today are suitable to fit a Trailing shoe system to.

The trailing shoe set up is a slow job,contractors are charging €40 per hr for the work as its a lot slower than conventional spreading,justifying this rate to a farmer is a tough ask id imagine,i notice a lot of these trailing shoes in contractors yards sitting on stands when im out and about,they're off splash plate spreading because it suits the farmers pocket and suits the contractor aswell as he will be fully paid for splash plate spreading,he'll have to argue his case for the trailing shoe and probably wont get anything like the €40 an hour he should be getting for the Work.

A 2250GL Tanker with 6metre trailing shoe System is costing €30000 at the moment,dont go next or near one id say.

vanderbadger

13spanner wrote: »

Right so, after having a good whip through all the posts, I've half settled on this as being more or less the most suitable for the area I'd be working:

Have a trailed conditioner with a grouper (around the 9 ft, wide enough to bring a good swath but narrow enough for the tight gates and gaps) on tractor #1. Grouping the swaths will make it twice as quick for the baler. Leave it on it the whole summer unless the tractors badly needed elsewhere.

Keep the one baler going flat out. Something with a good wide reel to take 2 nine foot swaths and flotation tyres for the clare ground :rolleyes: Leave that on tractor #2 for the whole summer, as with the mower.

Have your average wrapper goin on tractor #3, maybe one of the twin dispenser yokes mchale and connor are selling, maybe not.

On the side then do a bit of slurry and hedgecutting, maybe bobcat work as they seem to be going cheap. What do ye think of the trailing shoe for tankers? Worth getting if splashplates are on the way out?

What do ye make of that now? I know now there's serious money needed for that kind of gear but I'd be building up gradually The auld man is getting sick of the baling so I'll start where he left off. Sorry now I might be boring ye with this long hoor of a post but I thought I'd say all I have in my head as ye seem to know what ye're talking about!
13spanner

good thread 13spanner
one thing i would question is the swarther though, if the crop is any way heavy I think an 18ft swarth would only slow you down maybe baling..there is another big baling contractor not too far from you or me, id say you know the man, he has a 10ft taarup and a swarther and ive only ever seen him use the swarther if the crop was practically non existant, id say 9 or 10 ft mower by itself would be plenty but i could be wrong

maidhc

I have an 8ft mower and I find you need to leave the crop down 10-24 hours to get an adequte wilt. I think the crop would need to be exceptionally light 2nd and 3rd cut to have an 18ft sward and make decent bales with a high DM content.

I think you are going about this all wrong. There are two more important activities than baling silage 1) Teaching and 2) Farming. I think any contracting you do should be dependant on the machines you have already. I wouldn't invest a penny, and if you end up doing a bit for a few neighbours with the gear you have then it is all profit.

I make about 1500 bales a year largely for our own use and resale. With a full time job and a farm there isn't really time for contracting, and it doesn't pay... and that is with no machinery expenses!

The prime mover on the farm is a 2000 NH, all the other tractors are 30+ years old. We have 2 RP12s balers, one 1992 (currenly being rebuilt using parts from one I got for €350 on donedeal!) and a 1989 one which has done about 15,000 bales in 10 years with no break. They are all excellent machines in perfect condition, but it would be madness for us to run anything newer.

I think you are dreaming a small bit!

Tora Bora

maidhc wrote: »

I have an 8ft mower and I find you need to leave the crop down 10-24 hours to get an adequte wilt. I think the crop would need to be exceptionally light 2nd and 3rd cut to have an 18ft sward and make decent bales with a high DM content.

I think you are going about this all wrong. There are two more important activities than baling silage 1) Teaching and 2) Farming. I think any contracting you do should be dependant on the machines you have already. I wouldn't invest a penny, and if you end up doing a bit for a few neighbours with the gear you have then it is all profit.

I make about 1500 bales a year largely for our own use and resale. With a full time job and a farm there isn't really time for contracting, and it doesn't pay... and that is with no machinery expenses!

The prime mover on the farm is a 2000 NH, all the other tractors are 30+ years old. We have 2 RP12s balers, one 1992 (currenly being rebuilt using parts from one I got for €350 on donedeal!) and a 1989 one which has done about 15,000 bales in 10 years with no break. They are all excellent machines in perfect condition, but it would be madness for us to run anything newer.

I think you are dreaming a small bit!

Post of the year, even though it's still only early January. Do what you can with what you have, and its money in the bank. Buying new gear, more gear for such a tough business, which lasts a few weeks of the year, puts your money in someone else's bank.

dar31

Tora Bora wrote: »

Post of the year, even though it's still only early January. Do what you can with what you have, and its money in the bank. Buying new gear, more gear for such a tough business, which lasts a few weeks of the year, puts your money in someone else's bank.

the op sounded at first like a very senseable lad, get a good job and then do a bit of farming on what i assumed was the existing machinery,
then he got carried away with buying/changing machinery etc.
wont be long till the tread will be discussing whether to have twin beacons on one or all the tractors.
going to give up farming and start teaching if there is that much money to be had at it.

better milk the cows first though

Muckit

I definitely think, like what the last few posters have said, flashy high priced machinery may have seen it's day. All that contractors did was swop one head ache for another, ie. more reliable high capacity machines, but a bigger repayment bill :rolleyes:

We personally never hired a contractor on how 'flash' his outfit was. Once it could do the job and do a reasonable job, for reasonable money.

As also said before, a few good customers are better than alot of bad ones. We've a small farm, but 95% of the time the contractor gets his cheque going out the gate. He always comes when i want him, which with silage especially, is worth any money

13spanner

maidhc wrote: »

I wouldn't invest a penny

Sure in all fairness you have to put some money into it unless it's a 35 with a PZ haybob you're aiming at. I know what you mean by the more €€€ you put in the more you've to work for profit, but I'd be more than willing to do that.

maidhc wrote: »

I think you are dreaming a small bit!

Dreaming is all I can do yet sure, might aswell aim for the top and I might hit the middle, aim for the bottom and you're only going to hit the bottom.

13spanner

dar31 wrote: »

the op sounded at first like a very senseable lad, get a good job and then do a bit of farming on what i assumed was the existing machinery,
then he got carried away with buying/changing machinery etc.
wont be long till the tread will be discussing whether to have twin beacons on one or all the tractors.

Well to be honest I was hoping to improve on what we had, not rolling 3 new john deeres into the place. I was hoping to go teaching, keep the farming goin on a few dry cattle and make a few quid at the silage during the summer. As for the beacons, nothing worse than having them on in the field if you ask me! :rolleyes:

epff

take advice from a 30 yr old teacher that had all the ambitions that you have when he was in his teens and still.not for machinery but all other farming enterprises(sheep calf rearing feeding bulls etc i done nearly everything that would turn a quid from 16-29)

i was never without money as i was always working and had work ahead of me or had a plan for a new enterprise.

sure i am financially secure now always had a good jeep and money to go out or do anything that i wanted to do but i rarely had time to do it or was in a rush home hen i got there.

some of my major regrets now is that i didnt keep playing football went on a j1 to usa as a student and lived the student life.even now i see my work mates that use their freetime to travel, golf, quality time with family while i rush home to do a bit of work.the wife sees me about 30 mins a few evenings a week.(great woman that tollerates it)

take my advice live the student life to the full the other half seem to manage fine without stressing themselves.

but after saying that their is no fear of me getting out farming now 30cows and 100sheep about to start popping here finishing shed just emptied at a best price in years and now geting shed ready to start another bunch of dairy calves

Bitten & Hisses

epff wrote: »

some of my major regrets now is that i didnt keep playing football went on a j1 to usa as a student and lived the student life

Amen to that. Not going on a J1 trip has been one of my biggest regrets. Sure, not going has certainly been to my advantage careerwise, but I didn't travel enough while I was a student.

alleyb

lads ur bringing a tear to my eye talking about miss spent youth working hard on the farm or career instead of travelling. we all did what we did for what we thought were the right reasons i.e. building up a future etc. ,and to be honest i now a few lads now who travelled and lived it up aren't over happy at the moment and would gladly swap places. 13 spanner you have the hunger and fire in the bellie as they say and the best of luck to you, keep your feet on the ground and don't cripple your self with new equipment ,slowly build a tidy profitable business over 20 years of work rather than go broke in 5 with a big expensive outfit.

ihatetractors

alleyb wrote: »

lads ur bringing a tear to my eye talking about miss spent youth working hard on the farm or career instead of travelling. we all did what we did for what we thought were the right reasons i.e. building up a future etc. ,and to be honest i now a few lads now who travelled and lived it up aren't over happy at the moment and would gladly swap places. 13 spanner you have the hunger and fire in the bellie as they say and the best of luck to you, keep your feet on the ground and don't cripple your self with new equipment ,slowly build a tidy profitable business over 20 years of work rather than go broke in 5 with a big expensive outfit.

Best post on this thread by far. Whats wrong with a young lad showing abit of ambition, everyone one has done abit and if he's prepared to do something you wouldn't don't begrudge him for that

5live

Best of luck 13spanner. Just one question. As one poster has mentioned, getting the contracting done when the farmer wants it is hugely important for a farmer. How do you plan to be at school when a farmer is looking for work to be done before the weather breaks? Especially with slurry and baling! Its not going to help you build up a reputation for efficient work if the farmer left in the lurch while you are still earning. Just an opinion but speaking from (hard) past experience

Tipp Man

5live wrote: »

Best of luck 13spanner. Just one question. As one poster has mentioned, getting the contracting done when the farmer wants it is hugely important for a farmer. How do you plan to be at school when a farmer is looking for work to be done before the weather breaks? Especially with slurry and baling! Its not going to help you build up a reputation for efficient work if the farmer left in the lurch while you are still earning. Just an opinion but speaking from (hard) past experience

Great point 5live

Weather is a hugely important factor in farming and farmers want the work done when the weather is good - especially slurry and silage - and expect the contractor to be there when the sun is shining

Its a major problem for full time contractors so not sure how it would work out for a part time contractor

However it is great to see a young lad in this country be optimistic and want to do something positive in this country - rather than complaining and then going on the pi## in Oz for a few years. We need more of it in the country so best of luck spanner13

vincenzolorenzo

Tipp Man wrote: »

For me the ideal system for round bales is to have a wrapper parked up in the yard with a engine/power pack strapped onto it. Bring all bales in unwrapped and wrapping is done in the yard. It really reduces the risk of damaging bales and I think it could be a really efficient system. It only needs 2 men as well so should be cost efficient as well

Only down side is you need a good sized yard - we do but not sure everybody does

Yep agree with you 100% on that one. I've driven one for a good number of years now and its the most flexible option. The fusion system does cut out the need for wrapper/teleporter/driver but moving wrapped bales is just a pain in the arse. And as for yard size, its true that there's much more comfort in bigger yards but most yards i wrapped in were fairly tight but you manage just fine. If the yard really is too small then what we usually did was set the wrapper up in a little paddock off the yard and wrap out there. In that was probably better as bales rolled onto grass rather than concrete/gravel.

Tipp Man

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Yep agree with you 100% on that one. I've driven one for a good number of years now and its the most flexible option. The fusion system does cut out the need for wrapper/teleporter/driver but moving wrapped bales is just a pain in the arse. And as for yard size, its true that there's much more comfort in bigger yards but most yards i wrapped in were fairly tight but you manage just fine. If the yard really is too small then what we usually did was set the wrapper up in a little paddock off the yard and wrap out there. In that was probably better as bales rolled onto grass rather than concrete/gravel.

Thanks vince

I think i have seen a few of your videos on Youtube?? dodgy seat, or is it exhaust, on a loadall??!!

If its the one i'm thinking of ye run a good operation

vincenzolorenzo

Tipp Man wrote: »

Thanks vince

I think i have seen a few of your videos on Youtube?? dodgy seat, or is it exhaust, on a loadall??!!

If its the one i'm thinking of ye run a good operation

Yep thats me alright That squeaky seat seems to grab everyone's attention! The other lad that i worked with (MrFoxman360) has deadly videos of the whole operation, in various different setups