My plan for Silage Contracting

13spanner

Hi all,
So here's the story. I live an a small village full of farmers in North Clare. I'm 17 now and in five or six years I hope to be qualified as a teacher while keeping the farm going. I was thinking of running baling gear during the summer when I'd be on holidays from school and maybe a bit of hedgecutting or something small during the winter months.

My questions are....
1) Will farming have cut back so much that by the time I'm up and going with machinery there'll be too little work to be done to make it profitable?

2) Am I only dreaming with these plans I have?

Any opinions at all on what I've said would be valued, as I just want to see what ye think.

Thanks in advance.

Agri contractor

Farming will always be here and contractors will always be needed just don't go mad in spending big money on machinery. There are good bargains out there at the moment.

13spanner

hopefully you're right. And I'll never be spending huge money on gear, no 2011 John deere coming into the place anytime soon, anythin that'll stay goin and start when it's asked will do grand...

red menace

13spanner wrote: »

hopefully you're right. And I'll never be spending huge money on gear, no 2011 John deere coming into the place anytime soon, anythin that'll stay goin and start when it's asked will do grand...

My mate started off with a 802 Marshall with a RP200 and a 272 with a wrapper and a 5 foot 6 mower
He built his way up to JDs 7430, 6620 and a 6310 with a new baler and a Joskin tank
It takes time endless long nights
Abuse on the phone buying plastic, net wrap and diesel
Takes months to get paid if ever from some?
Is there already contractors in your area?
Can you do something to complement whats already being done?

Have you any machinery at present?

Muckit

I like your thinking. Your obviously very interested in machinery, and are probably gong to want to keep that interest going regardless of your teaching career. Are you handy around machines? No matter how careful you'I have breakdowns, more so when starting out with 'budget' outfit. Your probably a metalwork teacher, sorted so:D

I'd treat it as a 'hobby'. You'I be in the envyable position of having a steady fulltime wage and have the whole summer for your new venture when contractors are in most demand. I'm presuming that your from a farming background also, so how bad, you'I be able to do your own (or your Dad's stuff aswel).

Keep those dreams alive. I definitely think you should go for it, you'I always be wondering 'what if' if you don't. I wish you the very best of luck with it.

13spanner

thanks for the reply. I wrap bales with my dad during the summers, 4000-5000 every year. I'm mad for it to be honest, any abuse, late nights or bad weather but I still love the job. I'd hope to be doing around 10,000 at most when I'm older. The problem is, as you mentioned, the place is full of balers. Most farmers did well during the boom by block laying or something on the side so they went and bought gear for there own use. There's still plenty work, just more guys going for it. I'd hope to gain work by putting in the long hours, working Sundays, and just do the work on time for the right price. I'm lucky that my dad has a name made for me to start with, so hopefully I'll build on that . Thanks again.

13spanner

thanks a million for the interest and reply Muckit (: I'm fairly handy around machines alright, I'm no mechanic but I'd have a go at fixing anythin if I thought I could! I'm from a farming background alright and myself and dad do 4000-5000 bales a year. He's made a name for us and hopefully I'll build on what he's doing and gradually make my way up to 10,000 bales, all going well! It's a plan I've had since I was a young lad and only recently have I been taking it seriously. Thanks again, 13spanner

Muckit

13spanner wrote: »

thanks for the reply. I wrap bales with my dad during the summers, 4000-5000 every year. I'm mad for it to be honest, any abuse, late nights or bad weather but I still love the job. I'd hope to be doing around 10,000 at most when I'm older. The problem is, as you mentioned, the place is full of balers. Most farmers did well during the boom by block laying or something on the side so they went and bought gear for there own use. There's still plenty work, just more guys going for it. I'd hope to gain work by putting in the long hours, working Sundays, and just do the work on time for the right price. I'm lucky that my dad has a name made for me to start with, so hopefully I'll build on that . Thanks again.

Just interested 13spanner.....what kind of gear are ye running?

13spanner

well we've a 05 zetor 10641 baling and cutting, she's no john deere but with the dealer a mile up the road, anythin else would be pointless. We've a 09 kubota 108 wrapping, dealer up the road again. We've a 2005 claas 254 baler, has had a few knocks but running grand. a 2002 connor wrapper, as new bar the paint. a 1995 john deere 1355 mower, probably changing after next year for somethin with a grouper as she's getting rattled. We're looking at getting a 4wd massey 290 for wrapping next year so we wont have to be changin machines off tractors, just leave the same thing doing the same job for the summer. a 08 connor 1350 tanker and agitator. we've a new hedgecutter got but only the odd job with that yet. I'd hope to get that goin well if i had half a chance!

It's not the best gear in the country but it's reliable auld stuff and we keep em full of diesel so they stay goin for us. I'd have no time for lads buying 2011 john deere's or that when any auld yoke would do. Pointless! (:

red menace

13spanner wrote: »

well we've a 05 zetor 10641 baling and cutting, she's no john deere but with the dealer a mile up the road, anythin else would be pointless. We've a 09 kubota 108 wrapping, dealer up the road again. We've a 2005 claas 254 baler, has had a few knocks but running grand. a 2002 connor wrapper, as new bar the paint. a 1995 john deere 1355 mower, probably changing after next year for somethin with a grouper as she's getting rattled. We're looking at getting a 4wd massey 290 for wrapping next year so we wont have to be changin machines off tractors, just leave the same thing doing the same job for the summer. a 08 connor 1350 tanker and agitator. we've a new hedgecutter got but only the odd job with that yet. I'd hope to get that goin well if i had half a chance!

It's not the best gear in the country but it's reliable auld stuff and we keep em full of diesel so they stay goin for us. I'd have no time for lads buying 2011 john deere's or that when any auld yoke would do. Pointless! (:

Yer miles ahead of my mate already so
Do ye draw and stack as well
Lots of lads dont want the pain in the hole of that

13spanner

We'd rather not be wasting time at it, but if there was some poor hoor struggling with it we'd try and give him a hand if we could at all. Really we're only flat out busy for 2 or 3 weeks so tis cut, bale, wrap, dinner and nothing else for those days! How's it going for your mate? I'd like to see it goin well for lads who'll work at it cos they'd deserve it.

maidhc

13spanner wrote: »

well we've a 05 zetor 10641 baling and cutting, she's no john deere but with the dealer a mile up the road, anythin else would be pointless. We've a 09 kubota 108 wrapping, dealer up the road again. We've a 2005 claas 254 baler, has had a few knocks but running grand. a 2002 connor wrapper, as new bar the paint. a 1995 john deere 1355 mower, probably changing after next year for somethin with a grouper as she's getting rattled. We're looking at getting a 4wd massey 290 for wrapping next year so we wont have to be changin machines off tractors, just leave the same thing doing the same job for the summer. a 08 connor 1350 tanker and agitator. we've a new hedgecutter got but only the odd job with that yet. I'd hope to get that goin well if i had half a chance!

It's not the best gear in the country but it's reliable auld stuff and we keep em full of diesel so they stay goin for us. I'd have no time for lads buying 2011 john deere's or that when any auld yoke would do. Pointless! (:

That is very good equipment!

red menace

13spanner wrote: »

We'd rather not be wasting time at it, but if there was some poor hoor struggling with it we'd try and give him a hand if we could at all. Really we're only flat out busy for 2 or 3 weeks so tis cut, bale, wrap, dinner and nothing else for those days! How's it going for your mate? I'd like to see it goin well for lads who'll work at it cos they'd deserve it.

He is going well, has a good customer base built up and made a name for himself
But he works hard at it as you said late night early mornings sundays etc etc

mantua

Fairplay to ya!! atleast theirs someone on this site that has a positive perspective on the future:) but as you said no point going buying machines when you have older ones that will do the same and sure the newer ones are just full of computers so its an expensive fix if electrics do go wrong!! but also make sure that their is a market because no point working all year as a teacher and then putting your money into a job that you might lose money which hopefully you dont!!! also look at new oppourtunities in contracting like drawing bales for farmers which all contracters around us are doing now! and cleaning out dry sheds with bobcats because their small and handy!! look your still young and enthusiastic so you probably will have plenty ideas in how to make money out of it!!
Best of luck with everything but focus on teaching first and when you get that fire ahead with contracting:)

babybrian

Ever think of going into the seeding side of things? I reckon min-till or seed drilling of grass seed is going to hit a boom here soon with more and more lads going away from ploughing, maybe a subsoiler too.. just another idea for you to think about maybe. Good luck with it anyway

rliston

13spanner wrote: »

We'd rather not be wasting time at it, but if there was some poor hoor struggling with it we'd try and give him a hand if we could at all. Really we're only flat out busy for 2 or 3 weeks so tis cut, bale, wrap, dinner and nothing else for those days! How's it going for your mate? I'd like to see it goin well for lads who'll work at it cos they'd deserve it.

Dont dismiss the drawing and stacking bales too quick, there can be good enough money in it.

I started out doing a bit of round baling last year with a McCormick MTX 140 and a Claas 250 and then started drawing and stacking this year with hydraulic handler on loader and double handler on the back. The stacking bales has covered a lot more of the loan for the tractor than the baling did.

One tip for if you do go drawing/stacking, charge by the hour. Makes it a lot easier to price jobs as it'll allow for the tight gaps/yards, long/short haul, etc.

Whatever you do, work out all the costs of running the machinery/hour before you leave the yard; diesel, grease, oil, filters, wearing parts, tyres, a wage for yourself and some money to cover repairs/replacement.
Lots of lads are willing to work long hours for little money, and often forget that after a few years their machinery will be getting worn and need replacing.

iano93

Hi spanner13 i'm 17 too and was thinkin of doin a small bit off contracting myself if i am unsuccesful in my job seeking for the summer 2011:rolleyes:..But i duno now was thinkin of doin a few jobs like slurry, cleanin out sheds (we'v a front loader and grab and it makes very very light work of sheds:D), spreading manure and stacking bales ..thats basically it now i dont no will it work or will it be worth the slobbering about and hassle...

reilig

Lads, the most important thing that you need to have in place, ahead of machinery and customers is a plan or strategy to collect the money. There are hundreds of young lads across ireland that got burned big time in recent years by non payers. Contracting is a risky business - unless you are firmly established with reliable customers. I see it all the time in our area. A young lad buys a baler and wrapper and canvasses for business, the farmers that have a reliable contractor that they pay on time and regularly will not change, but the guys who owe money to several contractors for the last 10 years are glad to see a new contractor coming into the area that they can use and abuse and not pay. I have a friend who is a contractor, baling, slurry tankers and umbilical, hedge cutting and silage wagon. he has been doing it for the last 14 years. He tells me that he is owed over €100k from last year. He expects to collect much of it in the coming weeks since grants were paid, but he says that every year there is at least €15k to €20k that can be outstanding for over 12 months and at that rate, some of it is unrecoverable.

People are congratulating you for doing something positive and I don't mean to be negative, but its an expensive game and its easy to take a chance on a dodgy person if you're stuck for work. You have to be very careful. There are prowlers in every parish in the country that don't pay for anything and if you're left with a €30k overdraught for 6 months, the bank won't be long putting you on a high interest loan that could see you out a pocket. You will need to have an overdraught in place before you start to cover diesel, twine, wrap, parts and repairs etc. Remember to factor this into your budget as many farmers don't pay their contractor until their single payment comes - which can often be 6 months after the silage season.

Best of luck with it.

Atilathehun

reilig wrote: »

Lads, the most important thing that you need to have in place, ahead of machinery and customers is a plan or strategy to collect the money. There are hundreds of young lads across ireland that got burned big time in recent years by non payers. Contracting is a risky business - unless you are firmly established with reliable customers. I see it all the time in our area. A young lad buys a baler and wrapper and canvasses for business, the farmers that have a reliable contractor that they pay on time and regularly will not change, but the guys who owe money to several contractors for the last 10 years are glad to see a new contractor coming into the area that they can use and abuse and not pay. I have a friend who is a contractor, baling, slurry tankers and umbilical, hedge cutting and silage wagon. he has been doing it for the last 14 years. He tells me that he is owed over €100k from last year. He expects to collect much of it in the coming weeks since grants were paid, but he says that every year there is at least €15k to €20k that can be outstanding for over 12 months and at that rate, some of it is unrecoverable.

People are congratulating you for doing something positive and I don't mean to be negative, but its an expensive game and its easy to take a chance on a dodgy person if you're stuck for work. You have to be very careful. There are prowlers in every parish in the country that don't pay for anything and if you're left with a €30k overdraught for 6 months, the bank won't be long putting you on a high interest loan that could see you out a pocket. You will need to have an overdraught in place before you start to cover diesel, twine, wrap, parts and repairs etc. Remember to factor this into your budget as many farmers don't pay their contractor until their single payment comes - which can often be 6 months after the silage season.

Best of luck with it.

Amen to all of that.

Just look at the thread regarding accountants fees!! Several comments from regular posters on here, that they got the accountants bill and promptly filed it with other unpaid bills ... usually followed by a cute hoor smiley ........ meaning that there bill ainy gonna get paid anytime soon.

Rule number one in business ........ get paid. Get paid on time or near enough on time.
Most businesses which fail, fail because of poor cash flow, not because the underlying business is not profitable.

There is a few more threads on this board, which you should read and think about. You will see reams of posts from farmers (some of them large scale), constantly moaning that they have cash flow problems, problems with bank extending overdraft etc.

That dont mean the dont or wont pay their bills, but in a global sense it does point to an industry which has difficulties in meeting bills on time.

Remember the co-op and the feed suppliers and the diesel suppliers gat paid first because they have to .......... contractor is last, and as Reilig says, too often not at all

reilig

Atilathehun wrote: »

Remember the co-op and the feed suppliers and the diesel suppliers gat paid first because they have to .......... contractor is last, and as Reilig says, too often not at all

Because these farmers know that next year another young lad will come along that they can rip off too

rcdk1

Hi OP, I was going to post about contracting being tough etc but I guess you already know that. Since you're in Clare and want to combine teaching and contracting, I would suggest doing the Metalwork degree in UL. Will give you a better understanding of machinery etc but also access to the school workshop ;-)

Muckit

babybrian wrote: »

Ever think of going into the seeding side of things? I reckon min-till or seed drilling of grass seed is going to hit a boom here soon with more and more lads going away from ploughing, maybe a subsoiler too.. just another idea for you to think about maybe. Good luck with it anyway

I definitely think min till and subsoiling will be big business, but maybe just a fad for the next 5 years. Land is in very bad condition generally around the country after the last few bad years. Then again, I don't think Clare has too good of a reputation for reseeding going on the sales of grass seed:rolleyes: Could be the type of land there :D (only Jokin' BTW) This is something to look at in the future though, you'I have enough to concentrate on, what with paying back for what you have.

Something I would recommend you look at is your HOUSING and sheds for machines, maybe it's not an issue? I don't have to tell you that machines will spend at least half the year standing up. Better under cover then than outside.

Good Machines Spanner13. Maybe you should just focus on minding these and work on drumming up a bit of business for that new hedgecutter.

Like Reilig and others suggested, do remember to take off the rose tinted glasses from time to time and put on the specs to check out your perspective clients, finance figures and bookwork......... it's not just the kid's in school that need to do their HOMEWORK you know:D

13spanner

Thanks for the opinions so far lads!

Definately some good ideas coming in.
Keep 'em coming!

As for the teaching side of things I was going to do Liberal Arts in Mary I doing English and History, maybe German aswell. That or UCC. I'll get that much sorted first then look at farming!

As contractors and customers, any ideas as to the best way of going about getting more work? At the moment we do over 4000 a year and I'd like to be doing 7000 or 8000, and If possible do even more again!

Thanks again for the post so far,
I never thought I'd get this kind of interest to be honest!
13spanner

red menace

13spanner wrote: »

Thanks for the opinions so far lads!

Definately some good ideas coming in.
Keep 'em coming!

As for the teaching side of things I was going to do Liberal Arts in Mary I doing English and History, maybe German aswell. That or UCC. I'll get that much sorted first then look at farming!

As contractors and customers, any ideas as to the best way of going about getting more work? At the moment we do over 4000 a year and I'd like to be doing 7000 or 8000, and If possible do even more again!

Thanks again for the post so far,
I never thought I'd get this kind of interest to be honest!
13spanner

Try not to undercut the competition that's a recipe for disaster
Try to offer the extras other contractors don't, like stacking and drawing..

Sorry to keep harping on about that but it's sometimes the extras can help swing the customers

blue5000

Hi 13spanner,

It seems everyone these days has a baler and wrapper, by the time you're finished college there will be a few changes in farming, I guess splash plates might be banned so it might be worth looking at an injection system for slurry?

Also wrapping silage might be too expensive, might be worthwhile looking at a wagon? These came and went before.

Also as already mentioned some direct seeding and spraying might be on the cards. Don't go crazy on machinery though, it don't be long depreciating.

hiscan

Most of the Contractors down our way ask the farmer to supply the plastic for wrapping bales,makes it one less bill to collect off them I suppose.
It's one to think about if you aren't doing it already.

Agri contractor

Keep the baling outfit tidy. We run a mchale fusion,we give the farmers the handlers so they can haul and stack there own. They brake they fix.
We run a full contracting outfit and always try and keep it simple. Investing in machinery is expensive little room for error.

Muckit

Agri contractor wrote: »

Keep the baling outfit tidy. We run a mchale fusion,we give the farmers the handlers so they can haul and stack there own. They brake they fix.
We run a full contracting outfit and always try and keep it simple. Investing in machinery is expensive little room for error.

The 'problem' with the Mchale fusion IMO is that it only suits the contractor. Once out the gate, the farmer then is left to shift a large number of wrapped bales which is a pain in the h*le to say the least. Trying to get arms around them and 'humour' 'em is hard at the best of times...like a woman really:D (sorry Whelan1)

Same again with the plastic issue. With the farmer supplying the wrap, what does he do with 'the bit' (€€€) left over? It might not suit him to do bales the following year if he decides to do all clamp. Why should a half roll of wrap left in the shed determine what type silage you make. Again, suiting the baling contractor nicely. Trying to judge how much you need, you could potentially end up buying an extra roll you don't need, or having to go running to get another:mad:

I suppose it could be argued that because it only takes one man to work the fusion it costs less per bale to the farmer..... or it should:rolleyes: Never was the case around us.

iano93

red menace wrote: »

Try not to undercut the competition that's a recipe for disaster
Try to offer the extras other contractors don't, like stacking and drawing..

Sorry to keep harping on about that but it's sometimes the extras can help swing the customers

..Why do you suggest not undercutting the competition?..(some) Contractors are making a total killing out der and no they have their customers wrapped up and charge in a way what they like..If ur only doin a small bit of work then u can still make a good bit of money by doin it a small bit less especially if its a one man job(not like contractors who have to pay a few drivers)??

grass

This is the farmers choice is he can't handle wrapped bales get in the wrapper. We provide this service and it works for us. you cannot provide a service that works for everyone. we actually increased our bale numbers this year by 2000. We also supply the plastic no questions asked after about rolls.

Muckit wrote: »

The 'problem' with the Mchale fusion IMO is that it only suits the contractor. Once out the gate, the farmer then is left to shift a large number of wrapped bales which is a pain in the h*le to say the least. Trying to get arms around them and 'humour' 'em is hard at the best of times...like a woman really:D (sorry Whelan1)

Same again with the plastic issue. With the farmer supplying the wrap, what does he do with 'the bit' (€€€) left over? It might not suit him to do bales the following year if he decides to do all clamp. Why should a half roll of wrap left in the shed determine what type silage you make. Again, suiting the baling contractor nicely. Trying to judge how much you need, you could potentially end up buying an extra roll you don't need, or having to go running to get another:mad:

I suppose it could be argued that because it only takes one man to work the fusion it costs less per bale to the farmer..... or it should:rolleyes: Never was the case around us.

Tipp Man

We make about 800-1000 bales a year, we supply the plastic, contractor brings in and stacks. When contractor was supplying plastic we were paying him as he went out the gate. Now we're buying the plastic we get about a months credit

For me the ideal system for round bales is to have a wrapper parked up in the yard with a engine/power pack strapped onto it. Bring all bales in unwrapped and wrapping is done in the yard. It really reduces the risk of damaging bales and I think it could be a really efficient system. It only needs 2 men as well so should be cost efficient as well

Only down side is you need a good sized yard - we do but not sure everybody does

Muckit

Tipp Man wrote: »

For me the ideal system for round bales is to have a wrapper parked up in the yard with a engine/power pack strapped onto it. Bring all bales in unwrapped and wrapping is done in the yard. It really reduces the risk of damaging bales and I think it could be a really efficient system. It only needs 2 men as well so should be cost efficient as well

I'd have to agree with you Tippman. The less handling of freshly wrapped bales the better. Where would you be going, even with two double bale carriers trying to bring that amount of bales in? You'd want a good suspension seat under your ar*e that's for sure:D The notion of loading wrapped bales onto a trailer wouldn't be a runner for me either.

Those remote engine powered wrappers do seem the biz I have to say. Why waste a tractor and driver when one of these can do the job? Use that tractor(or telehandler) /driver then to load/unload and stack. Some great clips of them in action on youtube.

13spanner

How about this idea lads?
Draw the bales to the yard before they're wrapped and use a bobcat and engine powered wrapper to wrap and stack? Would a teleporter be better? Not so many big yards around here so something tidy would be important.

red menace

My concern would be would the bobcat have the forward reach for stacking bales?
Would you be likely to tear the bottom bales when putting up the second row?
They would be a mighty machine in small yards alright
I reckon you would make one pay stacking bales and cleaning out low sheds etc.
Maybe get runs clearing snow in Carparks in the winter too
See them lots here in Canada on snow removal and every builder seems to have one at least

C0N0R

We got 400 round bales done last year in one day, all wrapped in the field, but it was all fields basically around the house. Four tractors drawing in with single bale lifters got the job done in a few hours. All put in different places so wrapping in the yard would be no interest to us. But I do agree for some people it's certainly an option. And been able to offer a unique service is such a good thing when trying to start a new business.

Will tube wrapping ever hit it off at home? Out here in nz most of the bales of silage, round and square are tube wrapped. It saves on plastic but I guess you can't stack them after though. Seem fairly simple to operate to, one guy was doing it with a bobcat just.

But whatever you do, make sure you look after your good customers, I mean the ones that pay on time and don't demand the world. For those guys you can afford to be a bit better to as there the ones who will see you through thick and thin...

rs8

iano93 wrote: »

..Why do you suggest not undercutting the competition?..(some) Contractors are making a total killing out der and no they have their customers wrapped up and charge in a way what they like..If ur only doin a small bit of work then u can still make a good bit of money by doin it a small bit less especially if its a one man job(not like contractors who have to pay a few drivers)??

For a few reasons but the main one is if you under cut most in a year or two someone will come and under cut you in price and then everybodys steping on each others toes and theres no money because your really doing it for nothing!! A good price and service so that you will be making money and the customer is happy!! best of luck

Agri contractor

Spoke to our accountant today. He said the small contractor makes just as much as the bigger contractors. The bigger the contractor the cheaper they seam to be working for with alot more expense.

Bitten & Hisses

Muckit wrote: »

The 'problem' with the Mchale fusion IMO is that it only suits the contractor. Once out the gate, the farmer then is left to shift a large number of wrapped bales which is a pain in the h*le to say the least. Trying to get arms around them and 'humour' 'em is hard at the best of times...like a woman really:D (sorry Whelan1)

Same again with the plastic issue. With the farmer supplying the wrap, what does he do with 'the bit' (€€€) left over? It might not suit him to do bales the following year if he decides to do all clamp. Why should a half roll of wrap left in the shed determine what type silage you make. Again, suiting the baling contractor nicely. Trying to judge how much you need, you could potentially end up buying an extra roll you don't need, or having to go running to get another:mad:

I suppose it could be argued that because it only takes one man to work the fusion it costs less per bale to the farmer..... or it should:rolleyes: Never was the case around us.

In fairness Muckit (not having a go at you) but any farmer who has an issue with half a roll of bale wrap being left over (a full roll costs approx €60?) has bigger problems than making silage.
For the OP looking at contracting, I would recommend going with a combi of some sort, ideally a Fusion IMO, but there are also Krone combipacks, Claas Uniwraps and Lely Welger combis. He couls then provide drawing and stacking at extra cost, using a tractor with a double rear handler and a front loader. I drew a lot of bales using this method in 2010. You would need a bale trailer for longer draws, but it would be a useful way of providing a full service without needing an extra driver and tractor.

Muckit

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

In fairness Muckit (not having a go at you) but any farmer who has an issue with half a roll of bale wrap being left over (a full roll costs approx €60?) has bigger problems than making silage. QUOTE]

No bother Bitten and Hisses:D Your entitled to their opinion. I do have a reputation for being 'tight'

red menace

Muckit wrote: »

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

In fairness Muckit (not having a go at you) but any farmer who has an issue with half a roll of bale wrap being left over (a full roll costs approx €60?) has bigger problems than making silage. QUOTE]

No bother Bitten and Hisses:D Your entitled to their opinion. I do have a reputation for being 'tight'

That half roll if you have it is great for patching bales, Way better than tape.
Seals much better and quicker with a couple of trips around the bale

ihatetractors

13spanner wrote: »

How about this idea lads?
Draw the bales to the yard before they're wrapped and use a bobcat and engine powered wrapper to wrap and stack? Would a teleporter be better? Not so many big yards around here so something tidy would be important.

A clean teleporter wouldnt be hugely expensive but she'd be a bit aulder in age. You could hitch the rapper to the teleporter tho, seen it done an its some job, small out board engine uses little or nothing. It could open up work like Dung spreading aswel??

As lads said, if you do good work you'll get regular customers, don't try grow too fast at a high cost and take other lads customers. Have your costings up todate and by sure you work in houses you get paid

Juniorhurler

reilig wrote: »

Lads, the most important thing that you need to have in place, ahead of machinery and customers is a plan or strategy to collect the money. There are hundreds of young lads across ireland that got burned big time in recent years by non payers. Contracting is a risky business - unless you are firmly established with reliable customers. I see it all the time in our area. A young lad buys a baler and wrapper and canvasses for business, the farmers that have a reliable contractor that they pay on time and regularly will not change, but the guys who owe money to several contractors for the last 10 years are glad to see a new contractor coming into the area that they can use and abuse and not pay. I have a friend who is a contractor, baling, slurry tankers and umbilical, hedge cutting and silage wagon. he has been doing it for the last 14 years. He tells me that he is owed over €100k from last year. He expects to collect much of it in the coming weeks since grants were paid, but he says that every year there is at least €15k to €20k that can be outstanding for over 12 months and at that rate, some of it is unrecoverable.

People are congratulating you for doing something positive and I don't mean to be negative, but its an expensive game and its easy to take a chance on a dodgy person if you're stuck for work. You have to be very careful. There are prowlers in every parish in the country that don't pay for anything and if you're left with a €30k overdraught for 6 months, the bank won't be long putting you on a high interest loan that could see you out a pocket. You will need to have an overdraught in place before you start to cover diesel, twine, wrap, parts and repairs etc. Remember to factor this into your budget as many farmers don't pay their contractor until their single payment comes - which can often be 6 months after the silage season.

Best of luck with it.

Ya I do a very small bit of contracting and see that the best paying customers are part time farmers and farmers with wives working in good jobs as they don't tend to be so cash strapped. Have to say though what I do pays for my gear and covers all my machinery costs for the year including payments, diesel, parts and my own silage. I do a bit of spraying, hedgecutting, slurry tanker and small machinery. Nothing too hard for my little TS100A. I do pick and choose my customers though as I am teaching full time and farming 45 acres so if I don't work the machinery I can still eat.

ihatetractors

Agri contractor wrote: »

Spoke to our accountant today. He said the small contractor makes just as much as the bigger contractors. The bigger the contractor the cheaper they seam to be working for with alot more expense.

Quite true, fathers best friend is a small contractor, bales, slurry,ploughing etc.. Does his few thousand bales, and has new jd and newish newholland and new kit in the yard. As he says, he's at the age where his two chaps won't let him do anything:rolleyes:(bar drive on the road) and he's set up well enough, he makes a few bob covering cost at the contracting and has the farm more so as a hobby at this stage.

13spanner

Right so, after having a good whip through all the posts, I've half settled on this as being more or less the most suitable for the area I'd be working:

Have a trailed conditioner with a grouper (around the 9 ft, wide enough to bring a good swath but narrow enough for the tight gates and gaps) on tractor #1. Grouping the swaths will make it twice as quick for the baler. Leave it on it the whole summer unless the tractors badly needed elsewhere.

Keep the one baler going flat out. Something with a good wide reel to take 2 nine foot swaths and flotation tyres for the clare ground :rolleyes: Leave that on tractor #2 for the whole summer, as with the mower.

Have your average wrapper goin on tractor #3, maybe one of the twin dispenser yokes mchale and connor are selling, maybe not.

On the side then do a bit of slurry and hedgecutting, maybe bobcat work as they seem to be going cheap. What do ye think of the trailing shoe for tankers? Worth getting if splashplates are on the way out?

What do ye make of that now? I know now there's serious money needed for that kind of gear but I'd be building up gradually The auld man is getting sick of the baling so I'll start where he left off. Sorry now I might be boring ye with this long hoor of a post but I thought I'd say all I have in my head as ye seem to know what ye're talking about!
13spanner

THE LINK WALSH

13spanner wrote: »

Right so, after having a good whip through all the posts, I've half settled on this as being more or less the most suitable for the area I'd be working:

Have a trailed conditioner with a grouper (around the 9 ft, wide enough to bring a good swath but narrow enough for the tight gates and gaps) on tractor #1. Grouping the swaths will make it twice as quick for the baler. Leave it on it the whole summer unless the tractors badly needed elsewhere.

Keep the one baler going flat out. Something with a good wide reel to take 2 nine foot swaths and flotation tyres for the clare ground :rolleyes: Leave that on tractor #2 for the whole summer, as with the mower.

Have your average wrapper goin on tractor #3, maybe one of the twin dispenser yokes mchale and connor are selling, maybe not.

On the side then do a bit of slurry and hedgecutting, maybe bobcat work as they seem to be going cheap. What do ye think of the trailing shoe for tankers? Worth getting if splashplates are on the way out?

What do ye make of that now? I know now there's serious money needed for that kind of gear but I'd be building up gradually The auld man is getting sick of the baling so I'll start where he left off. Sorry now I might be boring ye with this long hoor of a post but I thought I'd say all I have in my head as ye seem to know what ye're talking about!
13spanner

Appetite for the expulsion of the splash plate system of slurry spreading seems to have waned at EU level,there was a lot of hype about this 2 or 3 Years ago and a lot of trailing shoe systems were sold on the back of it,if the rules being talked about then were enforced the splash plate would be gone as of last Week but that hasnt happened and isnt going toin the next 3 or 4 Years by the looks of things.If it does a huge grant will need to be brought in to assist farmers to scrap thier machines,very very few of the standard tankers on farms today are suitable to fit a Trailing shoe system to.

The trailing shoe set up is a slow job,contractors are charging €40 per hr for the work as its a lot slower than conventional spreading,justifying this rate to a farmer is a tough ask id imagine,i notice a lot of these trailing shoes in contractors yards sitting on stands when im out and about,they're off splash plate spreading because it suits the farmers pocket and suits the contractor aswell as he will be fully paid for splash plate spreading,he'll have to argue his case for the trailing shoe and probably wont get anything like the €40 an hour he should be getting for the Work.

A 2250GL Tanker with 6metre trailing shoe System is costing €30000 at the moment,dont go next or near one id say.

vanderbadger

13spanner wrote: »

Right so, after having a good whip through all the posts, I've half settled on this as being more or less the most suitable for the area I'd be working:

Have a trailed conditioner with a grouper (around the 9 ft, wide enough to bring a good swath but narrow enough for the tight gates and gaps) on tractor #1. Grouping the swaths will make it twice as quick for the baler. Leave it on it the whole summer unless the tractors badly needed elsewhere.

Keep the one baler going flat out. Something with a good wide reel to take 2 nine foot swaths and flotation tyres for the clare ground :rolleyes: Leave that on tractor #2 for the whole summer, as with the mower.

Have your average wrapper goin on tractor #3, maybe one of the twin dispenser yokes mchale and connor are selling, maybe not.

On the side then do a bit of slurry and hedgecutting, maybe bobcat work as they seem to be going cheap. What do ye think of the trailing shoe for tankers? Worth getting if splashplates are on the way out?

What do ye make of that now? I know now there's serious money needed for that kind of gear but I'd be building up gradually The auld man is getting sick of the baling so I'll start where he left off. Sorry now I might be boring ye with this long hoor of a post but I thought I'd say all I have in my head as ye seem to know what ye're talking about!
13spanner

good thread 13spanner
one thing i would question is the swarther though, if the crop is any way heavy I think an 18ft swarth would only slow you down maybe baling..there is another big baling contractor not too far from you or me, id say you know the man, he has a 10ft taarup and a swarther and ive only ever seen him use the swarther if the crop was practically non existant, id say 9 or 10 ft mower by itself would be plenty but i could be wrong

maidhc

I have an 8ft mower and I find you need to leave the crop down 10-24 hours to get an adequte wilt. I think the crop would need to be exceptionally light 2nd and 3rd cut to have an 18ft sward and make decent bales with a high DM content.

I think you are going about this all wrong. There are two more important activities than baling silage 1) Teaching and 2) Farming. I think any contracting you do should be dependant on the machines you have already. I wouldn't invest a penny, and if you end up doing a bit for a few neighbours with the gear you have then it is all profit.

I make about 1500 bales a year largely for our own use and resale. With a full time job and a farm there isn't really time for contracting, and it doesn't pay... and that is with no machinery expenses!

The prime mover on the farm is a 2000 NH, all the other tractors are 30+ years old. We have 2 RP12s balers, one 1992 (currenly being rebuilt using parts from one I got for €350 on donedeal!) and a 1989 one which has done about 15,000 bales in 10 years with no break. They are all excellent machines in perfect condition, but it would be madness for us to run anything newer.

I think you are dreaming a small bit!

Tora Bora

maidhc wrote: »

I have an 8ft mower and I find you need to leave the crop down 10-24 hours to get an adequte wilt. I think the crop would need to be exceptionally light 2nd and 3rd cut to have an 18ft sward and make decent bales with a high DM content.

I think you are going about this all wrong. There are two more important activities than baling silage 1) Teaching and 2) Farming. I think any contracting you do should be dependant on the machines you have already. I wouldn't invest a penny, and if you end up doing a bit for a few neighbours with the gear you have then it is all profit.

I make about 1500 bales a year largely for our own use and resale. With a full time job and a farm there isn't really time for contracting, and it doesn't pay... and that is with no machinery expenses!

The prime mover on the farm is a 2000 NH, all the other tractors are 30+ years old. We have 2 RP12s balers, one 1992 (currenly being rebuilt using parts from one I got for €350 on donedeal!) and a 1989 one which has done about 15,000 bales in 10 years with no break. They are all excellent machines in perfect condition, but it would be madness for us to run anything newer.

I think you are dreaming a small bit!

Post of the year, even though it's still only early January. Do what you can with what you have, and its money in the bank. Buying new gear, more gear for such a tough business, which lasts a few weeks of the year, puts your money in someone else's bank.

dar31

Tora Bora wrote: »

Post of the year, even though it's still only early January. Do what you can with what you have, and its money in the bank. Buying new gear, more gear for such a tough business, which lasts a few weeks of the year, puts your money in someone else's bank.

the op sounded at first like a very senseable lad, get a good job and then do a bit of farming on what i assumed was the existing machinery,
then he got carried away with buying/changing machinery etc.
wont be long till the tread will be discussing whether to have twin beacons on one or all the tractors.
going to give up farming and start teaching if there is that much money to be had at it.

better milk the cows first though

Muckit

I definitely think, like what the last few posters have said, flashy high priced machinery may have seen it's day. All that contractors did was swop one head ache for another, ie. more reliable high capacity machines, but a bigger repayment bill :rolleyes:

We personally never hired a contractor on how 'flash' his outfit was. Once it could do the job and do a reasonable job, for reasonable money.

As also said before, a few good customers are better than alot of bad ones. We've a small farm, but 95% of the time the contractor gets his cheque going out the gate. He always comes when i want him, which with silage especially, is worth any money

13spanner

maidhc wrote: »

I wouldn't invest a penny

Sure in all fairness you have to put some money into it unless it's a 35 with a PZ haybob you're aiming at. I know what you mean by the more €€€ you put in the more you've to work for profit, but I'd be more than willing to do that.

maidhc wrote: »

I think you are dreaming a small bit!

Dreaming is all I can do yet sure, might aswell aim for the top and I might hit the middle, aim for the bottom and you're only going to hit the bottom.