Immune System Boost

Pembily

I have had about 4 colds / flus since September, thankfully only one antibiotic but they have been rotten and right now I have a horrid flu and bad bad cough!!!

Now my eating has been bad, I have been drinking copious amounts and smoking (:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:) when out!! Also the window in my new room is broken but that is all getting fixed now!! I am eating properly (well only kinda at the minute as I have no appetite) and drinking less and no smoking!!

What vitamins are good for the immune system or what are the best foods to eat?!?!?! I can't get sick again, I am very prone to ear infections and don't wanna get bad ear problems

Thanks

El_Dangeroso

Vitamin D, K2, C, magnesium and iodine. Take all these and cannot remember the last time I got a cold, oh I had the beginnings of sore throat for one day, dose of iodine and D and gone in 24hrs.

It didn't prevent an abscess in my tooth but that tooth was on the way out no matter what.

Pembily

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Vitamin D, K2, C, magnesium and iodine. Take all these and cannot remember the last time I got a cold, oh I had the beginnings of sore throat for one day, dose of iodine and D and gone in 24hrs.

It didn't prevent an abscess in my tooth but that tooth was on the way out no matter what.

Can I take those all the time? I take D3 already and C, but I havn't been taking them regularly between moving and all :rolleyes: I will get K2, Mag and Iodine tomorrow!!

El_Dangeroso

Pembily wrote: »

Can I take those all the time? I take D3 already and C, but I havn't been taking them regularly between moving and all :rolleyes: I will get K2, Mag and Iodine tomorrow!!

How much D you taking? Did you get a blood test? Tbh, that and iodine are the two biggies. Surprised the D didn't help, I'm invincible to colds when I take it regularly.

Torakx

I seem to be invincible to colds and flu's also.Recently got a bit of a sore throat for a day after being around my nephew who had swine flu for a couple of days.
I suffer a low immune system in regards to yeast overload though.
Dont know if its because i have been on a great diet because of the yeast overload or just all the exercse i get recently.But i tend to eat alot of sesame and pumpkin seeds from tescos.
I do smoke the odd time aswell and have been told recently smoking can cause damage to the inner ear through the throat and cause tinnitus and ear infections.

I guess the overall way to boost your immune system is exercise on top of healthy foods that already have the vitimans and nutrients mentioned in above posts.

Zillah

There isn't really such a thing as an immune system boost. Eat a balanced diet, exercise, low stress and lots of sleep will ensure your immune system is as good as it can be, beyond that its down to genetics. There are few things worse for the immune system than doing a full days work without a full nights sleep.

Vitamin C and zinc are important for the immune system, so no harm taking some supplements in case your diet is deficient in these. Any product that claims to be an immune booster or super-charging or anything like that is blatantly lying to you.

Obviously avoiding sick people and using hand sanitizer will reduce your chances of being exposed to viruses. And don't rub your eyes. You can easily catch a cold or flu virus through the eyes.

Out of curiosity, you said "thankfully only one antibiotic"...what's that referring to? Colds and flus are viruses, which means antibiotics are completely useless.

Torakx

Docs frequently prescribe anti biotics for small things like chest infections from colds etc.
Ps anti biotics are partly why i had my yeast overload so anyone taking them remember to use pro biotics or you may be in for a living hell in a few years.
Trust me it ist worth it lol, took me about ten years to find out what it was in the first place that was causing me to be severely depressed and agrophobic.

astra2000

Eccanichia is an immuen booster reccommended by docs and it works. My gp reccommended it for my children a few years back when they were picking up every bug/cold going. There is an adult version in liquid drops or pills most chemists stock it. You only take it for 6weeks then break for at least 6 weeks again. This is a natural remedy immune booster. Those who tell you that they dont work dont know the facts lots of natural remedies were around before modern science and are proven. Of course we should all have healthy diets but even healthy people get sick. Sometimes a bad dose really knocks you for six. I have a long term illness resulting from an over active immune system and was on medication to supress my immune system, in the end I found it was worse having a lower immune system and getting every bug going than suffering the affects of my illness so I came off the meds and take diafene when in pain. I feel much better in my self and never get colds/bugs.

fatmammycat

Pembily, the very best thing you could do for your immune system is eat well- lots of natural non processed food, get plenty of good quality sleep, drink fluids, keep off the cigarettes and get regular exercise. As Zillah said, colds and flus are viral, so anti-biotics do nothing for them except run your system down even further. Whatever about taking vitamins, most herbal remedies claiming to be immune boosters are next to useless and personally I wouldn't waste a cent on them. But good food, rest and excercise will def help.

fatmammycat

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001370/38/

Of course healthy people get sick. That does not negate anything I said to Pembily. Anecdotally enchinacea might work for you but it is FAR from 'proven'.

astra2000

fatmammycat wrote: »

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001370/38/

Of course healthy people get sick. That does not negate anything I said to Pembily. Anecdotally enchinacea might work for you but it is FAR from 'proven'.

You have totally missed the point, it is meant to be taken for 6 weeks to prevent you getting colds, not taken when you have a cold to cure it. That study was seeing if it could work that way too. For every medication/herbal remedy that there is, there are studies undertaken by different organisations to prove/disprove them. Imho you can find a study to suit whatever your views are. I just did a quick google search and it brought up many hits saying how great echineca is I am sure I could find just as many saying it is crap too.
It is very ignorant when people choose to discount all herbal medicines, or indeed all modern science medicines. We need to keep an open mind regarding both.

fatmammycat

I've missed nothing. It may work anecdotally for you but if you can find me a double blind test that proves it is effective in cold and flu prevention I will doff my cap to you. As I said in my original post here, I personally would not waste a cent on it and it has nothing to do with being closed minded.

fatmammycat

Pembily- there's some very good info here on boosting your immune system, should you have time to take a look. Feel better.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/flu-resource-center/how-to-boost-your-immune-system.htm

El_Dangeroso

fatmammycat wrote: »

Pembily- there's some very good info here on boosting your immune system, should you have time to take a look. Feel better.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/flu-resource-center/how-to-boost-your-immune-system.htm

The info there is generally good (though I'd caution against taking either vitamin E or zinc supplements)

But I take issue with this:

Eat a diet high in fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, and low in saturated fat.

What peer reviewed science is that based on? Nothing that's what!

fatmammycat

Yeah, I did say 'some' good info. As someone who leans closer to a paleo/primal diet, I think it's such a shame that good fats are so maligned.

mloc

It should be noted in general, that high levels of vitamin C (e.g. much more than enough to prevent deficiency) has been shown NOT to prevent colds, but maybe reduce duration of colds once they begin. I'll try and dig out the paper...

Zillah

astra2000 wrote: »

This is a natural remedy immune booster. Those who tell you that they dont work dont know the facts lots of natural remedies were around before modern science and are proven.

There were indeed all sorts of natural remedies before science. Then science investigated them and the ones that worked became medicine.

The thing about science is that it examines the natural world and when something can be shown to be useful in a particular medical context it becomes a type of medicine. So called "natural remedies" can be declared to be so by any fool or charlatan.

Science doesn't reject the notion that there are natural solutions to illness, they just want to investigate things and show that they are effective (so you don't waste money) and safe (so you don't endanger yourself or your loved ones). No one has been able to show that echinacea has any beneficial effects on the immune system. It is also specifically reccommended that it not be used by people who have auto-immune disorders, or by children.

Imho you can find a study to suit whatever your views are. I just did a quick google search and it brought up many hits saying how great echineca is I am sure I could find just as many saying it is crap too.

This is why it is important to see who is doing the study and why. Usually the people reccomending herbal medicine have little or no medical training and are doing little more than spreading rumours that they have heard (or even worse, lying for profit). Genuine double blind trials are the only truly reliable tests. I bet your doctor is either not a real doctor, or he/she was giving you a placebo because there is no real medicine for cold and flu.

rantyface

Personal hygiene is more important than diet for preventing colds, like keeping nails short, hands clean, not touching your eyes or nose, wiping down surfaces with disinfectant. This is proven, whereas a lot of the dietary stuff isn't and might be a waste of time, money and effort, although if you want to try it it's no harm.

People get more colds in winter because we're in closer contact with other people, not because our immune systems are lowered.

El_Dangeroso

fatmammycat wrote: »

Yeah, I did say 'some' good info. As someone who leans closer to a paleo/primal diet, I think it's such a shame that good fats are so maligned.

And it's really surprising since many prominent researchers in the field that are changing their opinion are from Harvard!

WildBoots

Pembily wrote: »

I have had about 4 colds / flus since September, thankfully only one antibiotic but they have been rotten and right now I have a horrid flu and bad bad cough!!!

Now my eating has been bad, I have been drinking copious amounts and smoking (:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:) when out!! Also the window in my new room is broken but that is all getting fixed now!! I am eating properly (well only kinda at the minute as I have no appetite) and drinking less and no smoking!!

What vitamins are good for the immune system or what are the best foods to eat?!?!?! I can't get sick again, I am very prone to ear infections and don't wanna get bad ear problems

Thanks

Vitamins C and D3 are good for the immune system, I'd take 2g VitC and 5,000 IU Vit D3 daily.

Foodwise, cut down on the crap, especially sugar and eat as best as you can...you probably know this already. Try and include garlic in your meals when possible and make plenty of nourishing homemade soups with lots of fresh veg and herbs. Chicken soup made with the bones is especially good if you're ill already.

A good medicinal mushroom extract, especially one containing reishi or shiitake, would also be beneficial.

fatmammycat

Heh, El Dangeroso, those wheels turn so slow...ly. The whole food pyramid is so ingrained in popular diet culture.

El_Dangeroso

rantyface wrote: »

Personal hygiene is more important than diet for preventing colds, like keeping nails short, hands clean, not touching your eyes or nose, wiping down surfaces with disinfectant. This is proven, whereas a lot of the dietary stuff isn't and might be a waste of time, money and effort, although if you want to try it it's no harm.

People get more colds in winter because we're in closer contact with other people, not because our immune systems are lowered.

In a hospital setting, you're right, hygiene is paramount. But that's cos you're usually dealing with immuno-compromised people. Good hygiene is a general good idea (obv!:)) but it hasn't really been shown to improve the odds of avoiding a cold or flu unless you just completely avoid people, they've done studies on face-masks, hygiene classes etc all with less than spectacular results.

But there is a lot of research on dietary elements that have shown reduce the incidence of cold and flu. I can link you up some papers if you're interested.

astra2000

Zillah wrote: »

It is also specifically reccommended that it not be used by people who have auto-immune disorders, or by children.



I bet your doctor is either not a real doctor, or he/she was giving you a placebo because there is no real medicine for cold and flu.

Actually sorry but you are wrong on both accounts. There is a dose for children and when I used the adult dose for myself I didnt have an autoimmune illness. Obviously you couldnt use it if you have an autoimmune illness, but then again if it doesnt actually work why couldnt you? lol
Why would my gp not be a real doc me thinks you are out to stir! Gp didnt prescribe it as a medicine to treat colds/bugs but advised to take it after cold went for 6 weeks to help prevent them. It worked for us and I do know others who think it did for them. At the end of the day we are all free to make our own choices. It is good to have choices there is no point shooting things down just because it doesnt fit in to your life, free will and all that:)

fatmammycat

I'm sorry, but how on Earth do you know it prevented you or your family from catching a cold virus? I'm not being smart, I am genuinely curious, what are you basing that on?

Zillah

astra2000 wrote: »

At the end of the day we are all free to make our own choices. It is good to have choices there is no point shooting things down just because it doesnt fit in to your life, free will and all that:)

But you're not just taking it yourself. You are on the internet advising other people to take something to prevent colds that has not been shown to prevent colds. I'm pointing that out, not confiscating your supply. If someone in this thread was telling people to go do handstands in the forest to prevent colds I would point out that that doesn't work either.

I understand that you feel it has worked for your kids, but it is very possible they would not have gotten colds during that period anyway. If you don't get why that is important then I have a very useful tiger repelling rock that I would like to sell to you...

I've only been on this forum for a day and the level of pseudo-science and myth spreading is just terrible.

astra2000

fatmammycat wrote: »

I'm sorry, but how on Earth do you know it prevented you or your family from catching a cold virus? I'm not being smart, I am genuinely curious, what are you basing that on?

I understand your not been smart so I will answer as best I can. At the time the two children had mild asthma, in general their health was good, but the moment they got a cold it would develop into chest infections and on one occasion phenumonia when my eldest needed to be hospitalised. They both ate a healthy diet got loads of fresh air and exercise but if they came into contact with anyone who had a cold they got it and then the chest infections and asthma kicked in. Our gp is reluctant to give antibiotics but over one summer they had 4 different doses, he then reccommended the echinachea. We started this when the last chest infection cleared and the colds became much less frequent. Thankfully asthma has long gone as have chest infections, I dont put that down to echinachea just part of growing up.
Now my sis who lives in a different part of country and is a public health nurse also had it reccommended by her gp. And I know others who believe it has worked for them.
I am no expert and rarely use herbal remedies but there are a lot of well known ones widely used out there and a lot of people have great belief in them eg st johns wort, evening primrose oil, aloevera. Of course any treatment must be used within the reccommended guidelines, something as simple as paracetomol can have bad side effects on certain people or even the mildest overdose of it can cause irreversible damage.
Anyway my apologies to the op that your tread went so off topic:o, I hope you find something that works

El_Dangeroso

Zillah wrote: »

I've only been on this forum for a day and the level of pseudo-science and myth spreading is just terrible.

Hate to drag things even more off topic (ah who am kidding, no I don't )

But what psuedo-science and myth are you referring to? I'm not disagreeing with you but was wondering what in particular struck you?

We loves us a good debate round here

Pembily

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

How much D you taking? Did you get a blood test? Tbh, that and iodine are the two biggies. Surprised the D didn't help, I'm invincible to colds when I take it regularly.

See I "take" it but not regularly!!! Was home for Christmas so havn't taken it for 2 weeks and even at that it was irregular!! I take 30ug!!

Zillah wrote: »

Out of curiosity, you said "thankfully only one antibiotic"...what's that referring to? Colds and flus are viruses, which means antibiotics are completely useless.

Oh its for ear infections, when I get a cold / flu / run down I generally get ear infections, and already have very scarred ears so I am doing my best to prevent any further ear infections!!! I will only take antibiotics if I have ear infections as I know they are pointless against viral stuff!!!


Thanks for all the info, I am back taking my vitamins (getting K, Mag and Iodiene tomorrow) so hopefully this is my last cold!!

I generally eat quite well but have eaten so badly for the last 6 months is scary!!!!

Kimia

Zillah wrote: »

But you're not just taking it yourself. You are on the internet advising other people to take something to prevent colds that has not been shown to prevent colds. I'm pointing that out, not confiscating your supply. If someone in this thread was telling people to go do handstands in the forest to prevent colds I would point out that that doesn't work either.

I understand that you feel it has worked for your kids, but it is very possible they would not have gotten colds during that period anyway. If you don't get why that is important then I have a very useful tiger repelling rock that I would like to sell to you...

I've only been on this forum for a day and the level of pseudo-science and myth spreading is just terrible.

Tell me more about this rock! :pac:
Great post.

I vouch for Vit C - I've taken them any time I feel more tired than usual and I haven't had a cold/runny nose for over 1 year!

metamorphosis

Have not had a cold or flu in forever and havnt really been ill since i caught a chest infection this exact time last year - which also had nothing much to do with my immune system -

Anyway, daily i take fish oil, 4400 IU d3, K2 and magnesium before sleep. If i feel something coming on i dose up about 3-4gms Vit C and im all good. Seems to work for me, could be placebo, might not be. Don't care as long as im well!

ciagr297

as someone with a fairly compromised immune system, this is what i do

• get the flu vaccine as early as i can (and work lovingly provide me with it for free)
• take a multivitamin every day (think I have a boots own brand one at the mo)
• 200mg magnesium (side benefit of improving the condition of hair and nails)
• regular exercise
• low fat, high protein diet (medically recommended)

i've not had a cold virus yet this year...which is quite surprising actually.

but when i normally do catch a cold, i know its 7-14 days so i take some extra vitC (there was some study which showed it may shorten the duration of the cold virus) during that time, try to avoid eating completely rubbishy food and get extra sleep.

sometimes my colds take a turn for the worse and i get bacterial infections so then its antibiotic time (when it all turns yellow or green....so gross).

the antibiotics really take it out of me, so again i make sure i have plenty of yoghurts (great to line stomach before taking antibiotic in the morning), good food, alot of sleep

sorry there is no miracle remedy in there and i have to say that i am highly dubious of anything which is marketed as "immune booster" - cause really there are so many things outside of a supplement which influence your immune resistence

gaoife

Hi
I've heard garlic is a great booster, and also if your feeling a fever coming on boil some root ginger in water for a while and drink up before bed this always works for me

fatmammycat

I have only had flu once in my life, and it is a most debiltating virus I've ever had in my life and nothing like a cold, nothing like a bad cold even. Nothing like the worst cold I've ever had. Whatever about ginger being nice to drink (I don't mind it) it will do nothing to stop or alter real flu if you are unlucky enough to catch it.

jazu

i take propolis liquid, i use about 10 times the daily dose, you cant overdose with it, its a natural antiseptic found in bee hives. i

Bottle_of_Smoke

astra2000 wrote: »

I am no expert and rarely use herbal remedies but there are a lot of well known ones widely used out there and a lot of people have great belief in them eg st johns wort, evening primrose oil, aloevera. Of course any treatment must be used within the reccommended guidelines, something as simple as paracetomol can have bad side effects on certain people or even the mildest overdose of it can cause irreversible damage.
Anyway my apologies to the op that your tread went so off topic:o, I hope you find something that works

St Johns Wort is scientifically proven to treat mild depression. I think Aloe Vera is proven to help with skin isssues and I don't know anything about primrose oil.

Anyway for the latter two they are not good examples to use because unlike echinachea there is strong evidence they work.

Bottle_of_Smoke

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Hate to drag things even more off topic (ah who am kidding, no I don't )

But what psuedo-science and myth are you referring to? I'm not disagreeing with you but was wondering what in particular struck you?

We loves us a good debate round here

I've come here recently too and been very taken aback by the general attitude toward sugar tbh. Almost scaremongeringlike

Though at the same time I would say there's a lot of very knowledgeble posters here too.

Kimia

How do you mean BOS? Would you be of the opinion that sugar is ok in small doses? It's interesting to hear all viewpoints on this one as I would be fairly wary of sugar (perhaps unnecessarily so?)

Bottle_of_Smoke

Kimia wrote: »

How do you mean BOS? Would you be of the opinion that sugar is ok in small doses? It's interesting to hear all viewpoints on this one as I would be fairly wary of sugar (perhaps unnecessarily so?)

All scientific studies have shown sugar isn't a significant risk factor for weight gain/obesity.

Its just very easy to market as a bogeyman of nutrition because you can refer to its glycemic value and lack of nutrients. Hence you get people shelling out ridiculous money for organic honey and the likes. That's the problem with any discussion about nutrition, always intuition friendly rhetoric with little regard or reference to scientific studies.

The glycaemic value of sugar is of course extremely high but it is taken in such small quantities as a sweetener its actual impact isn't worth considering

Kimia

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

All scientific studies have shown sugar isn't a significant risk factor for weight gain/obesity.

Its just very easy to market as a bogeyman of nutrition because you can refer to its glycemic value and lack of nutrients. Hence you get people shelling out ridiculous money for organic honey and the likes. That's the problem with any discussion about nutrition, always intuition friendly rhetoric with little regard or reference to scientific studies.

The glycaemic value of sugar is of course extremely high but it is taken in such small quantities as a sweetener its actual impact isn't worth considering

What about foods high in sugar, but that are marketed as being low fat (indicating that it will help in weight loss) - like Special K and even Bran Flakes? I see what you mean about actual sugar but when it's in nearly everything you eat there must be a serious risk factor involved - and that I think is what is highlighted on this forum mostly.. I'm open to correction though.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Kimia wrote: »

What about foods high in sugar, but that are marketed as being low fat (indicating that it will help in weight loss) - like Special K and even Bran Flakes? I see what you mean about actual sugar but when it's in nearly everything you eat there must be a serious risk factor involved - and that I think is what is highlighted on this forum mostly.. I'm open to correction though.

Well I'd say there's less sugar in a bowl of Special K than a glass of apple juice so to be honest I wouldn't consider it a high sugar food. True a lot of ''low fat'' products do the ''replace fat with sugar and spin'' trick but that's capitalism for ya.

I think for people looking to lose weight cutting out bread/pasta/potatoes would be a lot more helpful than taking the sugar out of their tea.

Take a recent thread on tea. Whilst the comments about sugar weren't untrue per se, I think the language used made sugar out to be a much bigger deal than it actually is.

Kimia

Special K is very high in sugar - look at the ingredients:

Ingredients

Rice, Wheat (Wholewheat, Wheat Flour), Sugar, Wheat Gluten, Skimmed Milk Powder, Defatted Wheatgerm, Salt, Barley Malt Flavouring, Vitamin C, Niacin, Iron, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (B2), Thiamin (B1), Folic Acid, Vitamin B12.

My point was that it's not the sugar in the tea that gets you - it's the sugar in the food! (See example above).

I agree with you on the bread/pasta/potatoes etc, I suppose my point was that when you said

All scientific studies have shown sugar isn't a significant risk factor for weight gain/obesity.

I would disagree and said it is, and it's the sugar that is hidden in processed food which is the real danger.

rocky

would you not go one step further and say it's the fructose in sugar that causes fatty liver and insulin resistance, then weight gain?

Sugar by itself is still 4 kcals/gram . Or are we going back to the 'it raises insulin !!' scare mongering?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Kimia wrote: »

Special K is very high in sugar - look at the ingredients:

Ingredients

Rice, Wheat (Wholewheat, Wheat Flour), Sugar, Wheat Gluten, Skimmed Milk Powder, Defatted Wheatgerm, Salt, Barley Malt Flavouring, Vitamin C, Niacin, Iron, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (B2), Thiamin (B1), Folic Acid, Vitamin B12.

My point was that it's not the sugar in the tea that gets you - it's the sugar in the food! (See example above).

Look at it this way, a bowl of special K will have about 6g of sugar added. That's only 24 calories extra. If you're overweight 24 calories at breakfast time ain't gonna change a whole lot. Apple juice has about 20g of sugar in a standard small glass.

I agree with you on the bread/pasta/potatoes etc, I suppose my point was that when you said

I would disagree and said it is, and it's the sugar that is hidden in processed food which is the real danger.

I don't think it is and I think you're going on intuition and instinct rather than science. Have you ever seen a scientific paper showing sugar in processes food is a stand alone significant risk factor for obesity?

The causes of obesity are so diverse there is no silver bullet, and I think it is naive and perhaps distracting to suggest otherwise.

rocky

Vitamins A and D are proven to aid in cold/flu prevention:

http://archotol.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/summary/34/4/787

Some interesting graphs in the link discussing this study (http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/is-vitamin-d-safe-still-depends-on-vitamins-a-and-k-testimonials-and-a-human-study/blogger/Christopher%20Masterjohn/_:



Vitamin A and D can be toxic if not taken together:




I take one cod liver oil capsule a day, sometimes more. Didn't have a cold or flu in the last year.

Kimia

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Look at it this way, a bowl of special K will have about 6g of sugar added. That's only 24 calories extra. If you're overweight 24 calories at breakfast time ain't gonna change a whole lot. Apple juice has about 20g of sugar in a standard small glass.



I don't think it is and I think you're going on intuition and instinct rather than science. Have you ever seen a scientific paper showing sugar in processes food is a stand alone significant risk factor for obesity?

The causes of obesity are so diverse there is no silver bullet, and I think it is naive and perhaps distracting to suggest otherwise.

Maybe it is naive, I'm not a scientist by any means, so it's great to get the different opinions/viewpoints! It's very interesting really.

El_Dangeroso

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

All scientific studies have shown sugar isn't a significant risk factor for weight gain/obesity.

Its just very easy to market as a bogeyman of nutrition because you can refer to its glycemic value and lack of nutrients. Hence you get people shelling out ridiculous money for organic honey and the likes. That's the problem with any discussion about nutrition, always intuition friendly rhetoric with little regard or reference to scientific studies.

The glycaemic value of sugar is of course extremely high but it is taken in such small quantities as a sweetener its actual impact isn't worth considering

You been reading the back of siucra packets again?

If a person is: lean, with perfect blood sugar and an overall nutritious diet, then they can probably tolerate a moderate amount of table sugar. How many people visiting this board fall into that category you think?

As for ALL studies showing no link b/w sugar and obesity, eehh no.

And honey has a different metabolic effect than table sugar. Refined sugar increases triglycerides and inflammation more than honey.

Even if refined sugar never made you gain a pound there's more than enough reasons to avoid it for health reasons alone.

Bottle_of_Smoke

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

You been reading the back of siucra packets again?

If a person is: lean, with perfect blood sugar and an overall nutritious diet, then they can probably tolerate a moderate amount of table sugar. How many people visiting this board fall into that category you think?

''can probably tolerate'' - are you for real? this is the kind of nonsensical scaremongering language I'm talking about. When you say a lean person with perfect blood sugar can probably tolerate it (lmao tbh) it comes across like anyone else will turn into Mary Harney overnight if they put a spoon of sugar in their tea.

As for ALL studies showing no link b/w sugar and obesity, eehh no.

You're re-wording what I said there mate. Find me a study that shows sugar is a direct significant risk factor for obesity if you're going to be condescending.

And honey has a different metabolic effect than table sugar. Refined sugar increases triglycerides and inflammation more than honey.

The small quantities you take it in hot drinks make the magnitude of those effects insignificant

Even if refined sugar never made you gain a pound there's more than enough reasons to avoid it for health reasons alone.

That doesn't justify the scaremongering. If someone enjoys the taste that seems worthwhile for me. Think of people getting disheartened with diets because they don't enjoy their food anymore. Risk/benefit analysis says stop dissing sugar imho.

Red Cortina

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That doesn't justify the scaremongering. If someone enjoys the taste that seems worthwhile for me. Think of people getting disheartened with diets because they don't enjoy their food anymore. Risk/benefit analysis says stop dissing sugar imho.

Tell me exactly the benefits from a nutrition pov of table sugar vs, say, meat, fish, eggs, fruit or veg.

Weston A Price (a dentist from the 1930's) went and studied many remote traditional cultures who suffered none of the diseases of civilisation that plague our society today and found that their traditional diets contained (on average) 10 times the amount of fat-soluble vitamins that our western diets had. Then from my pov if I want to optimise the nutritional content of my diet then it seems prudent to consume foods that have the highest nutritional value.

rocky

We are not machines attempting to 'maximize the nutritional value of foods' . Different people have different priorities. Some sugar won't do you harm. It won't maximize the nv, but there are other advantages

Bottle_of_Smoke

Red Cortina wrote: »

Tell me exactly the benefits from a nutrition pov of table sugar vs, say, meat, fish, eggs, fruit or veg.

Weston A Price (a dentist from the 1930's) went and studied many remote traditional cultures who suffered none of the diseases of civilisation that plague our society today and found that their traditional diets contained (on average) 10 times the amount of fat-soluble vitamins that our western diets had. Then from my pov if I want to optimise the nutritional content of my diet then it seems prudent to consume foods that have the highest nutritional value.

You're mixing up theory with reality there.

I said in the post - it tastes nice. Realistically we are never going to have a situation where everyone has perfect nutrition, therefore we should be calling a spade a spade and not over-hyping the downsides of a food to the point of scaremongering because its the latest trendy thing to say. That's just pseudoscience.

El_Dangeroso

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

''can probably tolerate'' - are you for real? this is the kind of nonsensical scaremongering language I'm talking about. When you say a lean person with perfect blood sugar can probably tolerate it (lmao tbh) it comes across like anyone else will turn into Mary Harney overnight if they put a spoon of sugar in their tea.

Ah straw man argument, always the sign of a strong debate. I'm not scaremongering, I'm simply stating that over the long term consumption of sugar damages health, this is of course a positive linear relationship. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

You're re-wording what I said there mate. Find me a study that shows sugar is a direct significant risk factor for obesity if you're going to be condescending.

You said: "All scientific studies have shown sugar isn't a significant risk factor for weight gain/obesity."

And you're wrong, and now your back-peddling.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The small quantities you take it in hot drinks make the magnitude of those effects insignificant

Does it? I don't suppose you have evidence for that?

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That doesn't justify the scaremongering. If someone enjoys the taste that seems worthwhile for me. Think of people getting disheartened with diets because they don't enjoy their food anymore. Risk/benefit analysis says stop dissing sugar imho.

So you're saying that people who can eat sugar stick with their diet for longer? Because I haven't seen a single piece of evidence to support that position.

You're very quick to invoke science but I notice most of your argument is based in emotion and anecdote.

The fact remains that refined sugar depletes your body vitamins (C and E), contributes to dental caries and increases endogenous glycation of proteins (a potent factor in the aging process) and pretty much everyone would do well to minimise it in their diet.

I don't expect people to be perfect, hell I'm not. But if you start out with the right information you can go about doing your best. Aim for the moon, land among the stars and all that.:D

Sometimes I wonder if people forget this is a nutrition forum, not just a weight loss forum.