Census 2011

Kunle

Is it just me that thinks this is a total waste of money? Why do we have a census so often in this country? we had one in 2002,2006 and now again in 2011, most other countries only have a census every 10 years. Isnt the census a very outdated method ? There is talk of it being abolished in the Uk.

Cookie_Monster

Its an EU requirement these days isn't it?

Killer Pigeon

I believe it provides very useful and interesting statistics which help aid policy makers in some of their decisions. I believe it should be kept.

Einhard

The Constitution requires that there be X number of public representatives per X population. In order to meet that Constitutional requirement therefore, we need to know the number of people in the state. Apart from that, there are any number of reasons why holding a regular census is worthwhile.

Kunle

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I believe it provides very useful and interesting statistics which help aid policy makers in some of their decisions. I believe it should be kept.

Yes those policy makers really made good decisions based on past census, we really needed all those new houses built didnt we?

Laminations

Kunle wrote: »

Yes those policy makers really made good decisions based on past census, we really needed all those new houses built didnt we?

Are you really going to start knocking policy decisions after you started a thread saying you'll vote for FF come next election cos you think they're great?

Yes I've made a list...

Killer Pigeon

Kunle wrote: »

Yes those policy makers really made good decisions based on past census, we really needed all those new houses built didnt we?

Clearly past policy makers don't pay enough attention to the importance of censuses. In fact they should hold a census every 2 years to emphasise the relevance of population statistics.

Cakes.

Laminations wrote: »

Are you really going to start knocking policy decisions after you started a thread saying you'll vote for FF come next election cos you think they're great?

Yes I've made a list...

And how welfare cuts we're fair.

Kunle

Cakesofrice wrote: »

And how welfare cuts we're fair.

If you think FF's 8€ pw welfare cut was unfair just wait until right wing varadkar gets his hands on the department.

johngalway

Kunle wrote: »

If you think FF's 8€ pw welfare cut was unfair just wait until right wing varadkar gets his hands on the department.

Perhaps knock him on his actions instead of your bias.

Regarding the Census, is 2006 really the last time we had one? I thought there was once since then

While we were part of the UK it was every 10 years.

At some point after independence it moved to every 5 years as the population was declining so rapidly and this was kept.

nuac

Because census is taken on a Sunday night it is skewed in favour of the larger centres of population.

At the end of each weekend usually on Sunday evening thousands of young people leave each rural county to return to work or thirdlevel education in larger centres.

This results in lower populations been shown in smaller communities and inflated numbers in larger centres. Some of those in larger centres are aware of this. For at least one census UCG set exams on the following Monday morning.

A census to give true result should be held on a Saturday night.

delta_bravo

Its every 5 years and one of the most important sources of data a state gets.

astrofool

nuac wrote: »

Because census is taken on a Sunday night it is skewed in favour of the larger centres of population.

At the end of each weekend usually on Sunday evening thousands of young people leave each rural county to return to work or thirdlevel education in larger centres.

This results in lower populations been shown in smaller communities and inflated numbers in larger centres. Some of those in larger centres are aware of this. For at least one census UCG set exams on the following Monday morning.

A census to give true result should be held on a Saturday night.

So they spend all week at the larger population centre (5/7 of their time), surely they should count as being resident there for census purposes.

mdebets

nuac wrote: »

Because census is taken on a Sunday night it is skewed in favour of the larger centres of population.

At the end of each weekend usually on Sunday evening thousands of young people leave each rural county to return to work or thirdlevel education in larger centres.

This results in lower populations been shown in smaller communities and inflated numbers in larger centres.

If these students live 5 out of 7 days in the larger centres, they should be counted there, so the count on Sunday is the correct one.

later12

nuac wrote: »

B
At the end of each weekend usually on Sunday evening thousands of young people leave each rural county to return to work or thirdlevel education in larger centres.

That presumably means they are spending the majority of the week in that location. Therefore that is the location where they use the most resources, are available for work or study, and are otherwise normally resident. They should be counted there.

galwayrush

Kunle wrote: »

If you think FF's 8€ pw welfare cut was unfair just wait until right wing varadkar gets his hands on the department.

Hope he does not have to be too severe to try and fix the awful situation we are in because of FF.

jakdelad

1 The revenue use computer matching of census data and private addresses to track down people who don't file income taxes, in 2010

2 they tell you all information collected is for statisticial purposes only BULL****

3 why cant we send the information by email?? makes sense and would save a lot of money


4 why is the question wheather or not your connected to the internet so important
a simple call to eircom ,vodafone, 3 etc would give quicker and more accurate information

5 they are enumerators your only obliged to tell them how many are in the house
ask them where does it say in the constitution they are allowed to gather private information or take peoples names,eg how many bedrooms you have or how many cars, or computers

6 where does the census derive its authority to demand we provide them with private information?

7 is there any limit to the amount of private information the census may collect?????

8 how may we be penalised for maintaining our privacy???


heres a sample of questions from the 2006 census
have a look and think again

http://www.cso.ie/census/why_all_the_questions.htm

Iwasfrozen

jakdelad wrote: »

1 The revenue use computer matching of census data and private addresses to track down people who don't file income taxes, in 2010

2 they tell you all information collected is for statisticial purposes only BULL****

3 why cant we send the information by email?? makes sense and would save a lot of money


4 why is the question wheather or not your connected to the internet so important
a simple call to eircom ,vodafone, 3 etc would give quicker and more accurate information

5 they are enumerators your only obliged to tell them how many are in the house
ask them where does it say in the constitution they are allowed to gather private information or take peoples names,eg how many bedrooms you have or how many cars, or computers

6 where does the census derive its authority to demand we provide them with private information?

7 is there any limit to the amount of private information the census may collect?????

8 how may we be penalised for maintaining our privacy???


heres a sample of questions from the 2006 census
have a look and think again

http://www.cso.ie/census/why_all_the_questions.htm

Are you a Troll? I'm going to bite anyway.

3. Becuase not everyone has an email and there is no way to check everyone sent theirs in.

4. It's not eircom or vodafones business to do that for the government. Also not wveryone has a phone.

5. You are obliged to tell them anything they ask you. The constitution doesn't allow them but it doesn't forbid them. That's the important part.

6. From the government, duh.

7. Not that I know.

8. Everyone who doesn't fil out the census should be penalised.

Kalimah

jakdelad wrote: »

1 The revenue use computer matching of census data and private addresses to track down people who don't file income taxes, in 2010

2 they tell you all information collected is for statisticial purposes only BULL****

3 why cant we send the information by email?? makes sense and would save a lot of money


4 why is the question wheather or not your connected to the internet so important
a simple call to eircom ,vodafone, 3 etc would give quicker and more accurate information

5 they are enumerators your only obliged to tell them how many are in the house
ask them where does it say in the constitution they are allowed to gather private information or take peoples names,eg how many bedrooms you have or how many cars, or computers

6 where does the census derive its authority to demand we provide them with private information?

7 is there any limit to the amount of private information the census may collect?????

8 how may we be penalised for maintaining our privacy???


heres a sample of questions from the 2006 census
have a look and think again

http://www.cso.ie/census/why_all_the_questions.htm

I. No they don't.

2. Yes it is.

nuac

later10 - thank u for your reply. most of those leaving their home places on Sunday evening are going back to place of third-level education. They will move on from that place on average within 3 to 5 years and will return to home place or go elsewhere.

Still believe they should for census purposes be enumerated at their home address.

spank_inferno

nuac wrote: »

they will move on from that place on average within 3 to 5 years and will return to home place or go elsewhere.

Just in time for the next census so!

The 2011 Census should not be basing residency stats on where some kids may be living in 3-5 years.
Its for collecting data in the here & now.


As a counterpoint I think urban areas go under-counted on census days.

Anecdotally (a family member who was a Dublin census enumerator) there are huge areas of Dublin city that have a very high imigrant population, these residents have a much lower completion & return rate than Irish citizens because many don’t want or are afraid to participate.

nuac

nuac wrote: »

later10 - thank u for your reply. most of those leaving their home places on Sunday evening are going back to place of third-level education. They will move on from that place on average within 3 to 5 years and will return to home place or go elsewhere.

Still believe they should for census purposes be enumerated at their home address.

And they will be replaced by incoming students, who will be replaced by other students.

Your way would permanently undercount the population of cities and over count the population of rural towns and villages that these students unfortunately may never return to.

For example Galway has a population of 73,000 which includes
16,000(total - don't have a handy split) students in NUIG and 5,000 (full time undergrad) in GMIT 3/4 of which come from the west of Ireland.

Edit: I am sure many of the students are from Galway itself, commute into town, are studying part time or in different campuses etc. - the numbers are for example to show how much it could impact the total.

Mike 1972

Einhard wrote: »

The Constitution requires that there be X number of public representatives per X population. In order to meet that Constitutional requirement therefore, we need to know the number of people in the state. Apart from that, there are any number of reasons why holding a regular census is worthwhile.

Surely it would be better to use the electoral register for the purpose you refer to ?

Between them the revenue comissioners and the Dept of social welfare (or whatever silly happy-clappy feelgood name thay have for it these days) should be able to figure out how many people live in the country.

Among the dafter questions on the census are Religion (what business of the government is it ?) Race/Ethnicity (if only for the ludicrous categorisations) and What year the place you live in was built (How the hell should I know -Im only renting the damn place ?)

Despite the legal penelties for lying on the census quite a lot of the answers given in relation to the "Religion" and "Irish language" questions are quite obviously patently untrue which does make one wonder how honest people are when it comes to filling in the rest of it.

Sulmac

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Among the dafter questions on the census are Religion (what business of the government is it ?)

Hey, some of us want the government to acknowledge and respect our Jedi faith.

For anyone who's interested, here's a list of questions that will be on the census this year.

Mike 1972

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Among the dafter questions on the census are Religion (what business of the government is it ?)

Something like 98% of the primary schools in this country have a religious ethos.

Wouldn't you and the government like to know if there was a big mismatch between peoples stated beliefs and what schools get state funding?

Mike 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't you and the government like to know if there was a big mismatch between peoples stated beliefs and what schools get state funding?

I wouldnt approve of Schools with a religious ethos recieving a cent from the taxpayer even if 99.9% of the population subscribed to the religion in question but thats really one for another thread.

Oasis_Dublin

nuac wrote: »

A census to give true result should be held on a Saturday night.

Staying in on a Saturday night? Pffft. Also as someone else mentioned, why concentrate resources on an area where the majority will only spend one night of the week. Dublin abú!!

Cookie_Monster

http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/Date_%20for_%20census_%202011.pdf
H2 Year house was built

why & how would they expect you to know the answer to that?

Mike 1972

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why & how would they expect you to know the answer to that?

If you own the house. its probably mentioned in the title deeds (???)

If youre renting you most likely dont know and have no reason to even care.

Ive no idea how old the place im living in is. I could hazard a guess at what decade it was but I could still be miles out and Im not remotely interested to be quite frank about it.
The local authority planning office would know exactly which goes to prove my earlier point that theres damn all information to be gleaned from holding a census than could be determined with a lot greater accuracy by Government departments sharing information already available to them.

jakdelad

Kalimah wrote: »

I. No they don't.

2. Yes it is.

who counts the homeless???
who counts the travelers .???

new questin in the 2011 census
how is your health,, come on???

jakdelad

[

5. You are obliged to tell them anything they ask you.


really anything they ask you
like tell us anything we ask??/ or else wow what a concept

how about the question asking women how many children they had born alive?????
and suppose some poor woman whos just had a stillbirth or miscarraige

does she have to answer ANYTHING they ask you moron

jakdelad

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Clearly past policy makers don't pay enough attention to the importance of censuses. In fact they should hold a census every 2 years to emphasise the relevance of population statistics.

tell these basstards nothing
they want information from you but threating you with fines if you dont co,operate

your information is very vaulable and is not secure.....
when the japanese bombed pearl harbour
the americian govt used census information to round up americian japenese CITIZENS and put them in a pow camp

the census act allows for the toaiseach to use information from the census if he see s fit

PeterIanStaker

Looking forward to putting down "no religion" on it.

Grudaire

jakdelad wrote: »

tell these basstards nothing
they want information from you but threating you with fines if you dont co,operate

your information is very vaulable and is not secure.....
when the japanese bombed pearl harbour
the americian govt used census information to round up americian japenese CITIZENS and put them in a pow camp

the census act allows for the toaiseach to use information from the census if he see s fit

jakdelad

your point????

snickerpuss

jakdelad wrote: »

[

5. You are obliged to tell them anything they ask you.


really anything they ask you
like tell us anything we ask??/ or else wow what a concept

how about the question asking women how many children they had born alive?????
and suppose some poor woman whos just had a stillbirth or miscarraige

does she have to answer ANYTHING they ask you moron

That is a pretty pertinant question. I hardly think that filling in a census form would be the most upsetting part of a stillbirth or miscarriage. It even appears on the 1911 cenus forms. That's valuable data for social and historical research.

Should we not ask people to tick widower too? Is that not upsetting?

Grudaire

jakdelad wrote: »

your point????

My point is that you're making no sense :pac:

The point of the census is to provide statistics that are quite necessary for the running of the country. I think you'll find the concept isn't that strange, or that cynical

jakdelad

we the census helps the govt plan our needs for the future

like ghost estates and thousands of empty houses???
people lying on hospital trollys because of the lack of space and much needed hospitals??
like building a national childrens hospital in the middle of a city??
oh right that sort of planning
silly me

MadsL

jakdelad wrote: »

we the census helps the govt plan our needs for the future

like ghost estates and thousands of empty houses???
people lying on hospital trollys because of the lack of space and much needed hospitals??
like building a national childrens hospital in the middle of a city??
oh right that sort of planning
silly me

that sort of planning

It's also made public so that citizens can examine the trend and question bad planning decisions. Or should groups who lobby and encourage better strategic planning and use of natural resources, transport, health infrastructure etc. just stick a wet finger in the air or trust what politicians and civil servants tell them?

That's the point of the census.

Why not take a look at the statistics the CSO provides?

http://www.cso.ie/census/Census2006Results.htm

(on a personal bug-bear I see the number of non-nationals counted in the 2006 census was.........0!! Quite a few other nationalities though)

Son Of A Vidic

MadsL wrote: »

Or should groups who lobby and encourage better strategic planning and use of natural resources, transport, health infrastructure etc. just stick a wet finger in the air or trust what politicians and civil servants tell them?

Well they've obviously been sticking their fingers in the air then. Because this country has not exploited its natural resources. Our transportation system is a disgrace. As a person who worked for many years within our health infrastructure, I can assure you it is undoubtedly substandard. So what has all this idle information been used for then?

jakdelad

MadsL wrote: »

It's also made public so that citizens can examine the trend and question bad planning decisions. Or should groups who lobby and encourage better strategic planning and use of natural resources, transport, health infrastructure etc. just stick a wet finger in the air or trust what politicians and civil servants tell them?

That's the point of the census.

Why not take a look at the statistics the CSO provides?

http://www.cso.ie/census/Census2006Results.htm

(on a personal bug-bear I see the number of non-nationals counted in the 2006 census was.........0!! Quite a few other nationalities though)

madsl is right
we have been filling census forms for a long time now
and basically nothings changed
non nationals, the homeless, and travellers.
are not counted therefore the census is flawed and invalidated
your religion should not be answered. the govt dont do churches
how many children born alive should not be answered
how many rooms in your house?? none of their business
how many computers you own??? handy info for dell
and can anyone really believe all that juciy valuable information is kept secret, yawn.......#
all it takes is one CD.
dont be fooled
the americans used the census info to roundup american japanese citizens and throw them in a pow in the 40s ,,not that they had commited any crime solely the fact they were or their fathers or mothers were born in japan
a head count for the country no problem
the rest is private
when you go for a job anywhere in the world they cannot ask you what your religion is??
we elect TDS to inform govt of where we need new roads hospitals etc
anyone see where they are going to build the national childrens hospital
in the middle of a city?/ theres well used census information
wake up ireland wake up

dixiefly

Just because the Government have failed miserably to use the data available to it in the past is no reason to dump a fundamental tool in understanding our demographics like the Census. This government in general has failed to take note of any information that did not go along with the various petty endeavours.

The Census is a valuable function and is used widely by a variety of research organisations, university etc on top of Government departments. I dont know how much of the data is used by various departments but I suspect that Government Departments in general dont use data in a proactive way like our top private sector organisations would. Perhaps, the whole Transforming Public Service initiatives that is being promised by the new government will include a lot more data and fact based decision making across various departments, local authorities etc.

Regarding the cost of the Census, besides printing etc I would suspect that a large part of the cost is the people taken on on a contract basis to work on it. This is probably a very welcome bit of nwork for many of these people considering the economy at the moment.

MadsL

madsl is right
we have been filling census forms for a long time now
and basically nothings changed
non nationals, the homeless, and travellers.
are not counted therefore the census is flawed and invalidated

I am right, but not in the way you mean. The point I was making is that the census doesn't count non-nationals it counts foreign-nationals. As a ‘non-national’ myself I hate this tem; I have a nationality, just not your nationality.

your religion should not be answered. the govt dont do churches

Except that this information is helpful for example to understand what provisions need to made in say hospitals or schools for those of other faiths. It also is a snapshot of how a country’s faith changes over time.

how many children born alive should not be answered

Why?

how many rooms in your house?? none of their business

Gives information on population density/sq footage usage. An important planning tool.

how many computers you own??? handy info for dell

Gives information on technology demands so they can be planned for national infrastructure.

and can anyone really believe all that juciy valuable information is kept secret, yawn.......#

It isn’t kept secret, it is aggregated and published. What do you want do with it??

all it takes is one CD.
dont be fooled

Are you wearing a tin-foil hat??

the americans used the census info to roundup american japanese citizens and throw them in a pow in the 40s ,,not that they had commited any crime solely the fact they were or their fathers or mothers were born in japan

So what. That was 70 years ago, are you saying that the Irish State will round up, what...travellers??

when you go for a job anywhere in the world they cannot ask you what your religion is??

Have you ever applied for a job in NI?

we elect TDS to inform govt of where we need new roads hospitals etc

No, especially we seem to elect TDs to make sure the hospital is build in the parish, nevermind where it is actually needed.

anyone see where they are going to build the national childrens hospital
in the middle of a city?

Should it be built in a townland??

theres well used census information
wake up ireland wake up

I think you need to wake up.

MadsL

Well they've obviously been sticking their fingers in the air then. Because this country has not exploited its natural resources. Our transportation system is a disgrace. As a person who worked for many years within our health infrastructure, I can assure you it is undoubtedly substandard. So what has all this idle information been used for then?

Thanks. I'll tell all the groups* (who have been pointing out issues such as bad planning, potential property market collapse, over-building on flood plains, one-off housing, lack of joined-up thinking in transport policy, unsustainable forestry, unsustainable use of peat, ecological destrution etc) that in fact it is their fault!

Are you for real?

*if you want a list the Irish Environmental Network is good place to start. www.ien.ie

jakdelad

MadsL wrote: »

I am right, but not in the way you mean. The point I was making is that the census doesn't count non-nationals it counts foreign-nationals. As a ‘non-national’ myself I hate this tem; I have a nationality, just not your nationality.




Except that this information is helpful for example to understand what provisions need to made in say hospitals or schools for those of other faiths. It also is a snapshot of how a country’s faith changes over time.

Why?


Gives information on population density/sq footage usage. An important planning tool.
see below



Gives information on technology demands so they can be planned for national infrastructure.
oh that national infrastructre
like thousands of ghost estates thousands of houses
****ty roads trolly hospitals etc etc


It isn’t kept secret, it is aggregated and published. What do you want do with it??
really?
Are you wearing a tin-foil hat?
your point?


So what. That was 70 years ago, are you saying that the Irish State will round up, what...travellers??

ya they told the jews bring your luggage its a holiday


Have you ever applied for a job in NI?



No, especially we seem to elect TDs to make sure the hospital is build in the parish, nevermind where it is actually needed.



Should it be built in a townland??
no west of the city would seem a lot more sensible
than the middle of a city. maybe i am wrong



I think you need to wake up.

i will,, and you stop voting fianna fail

kerash

jakdelad wrote: »

madsl is right
we have been filling census forms for a long time now
and basically nothings changed

Thanks to the census we can see exactly what HAS changed!

how many children born alive should not be answered

Why?

how many rooms in your house?? none of their business

surely it's important to see how our society are living?

how many computers you own??? handy info for dell

ah come on! Dell or any company can easily find this info out by doing their own market research!

and can anyone really believe all that juciy valuable information is kept secret, yawn.......#
all it takes is one CD.
dont be fooled

It's LAW! it has to be kept confidential

the americans used the census info to roundup american japanese citizens and throw them in a pow in the 40s ,,not that they had commited any crime solely the fact they were or their fathers or mothers were born in japan

This is not America in the 40's, you're going to extremes to prove a point and it's verging on ridiculous! [/QUOTE]

thebostoncrab

As someone who works on the Census, I can tell you that we are under very tight rules when it comes to information that is gathered. The price we could pay if we gave anyone your information is massve and not worth it.

Your privacy is also protected by law and you can use the freedom of information act to your advantage if you still have any worries.

MadsL

you stop voting fianna fail

@jakdelad

I have never voted Fianna FAIL in my life - withdraw that.

jakdelad

thebostoncrab wrote: »

As someone who works on the Census, I can tell you that we are under very tight rules when it comes to information that is gathered. The price we could pay if we gave anyone your information is massve and not worth it.

Your privacy is also protected by law and you can use the freedom of information act to your advantage if you still have any worries.

thats what the revenue boys thought as well
so they chained their laptops to the desks
guess what ten were stolen
but all the information is encrypted [yawn]
you can get a free online decrypter for any ten day trial...
why is just a headcount just not enough
what is it that they want to know personal and private information
about irish citizens
latest new question hows your health??/ jesus
how far will they go???
your health, religion, how many cars you have etc, is none of their dam business
tell them nothing

they are worst then hoovers FBI
let them take you to court
ask them to show you exactly where in the consitition it says
you must dilvulge personal and private information about yourself

bernard bluff

jakdelad wrote: »

madsl is right
we have been filling census forms for a long time now
and basically nothings changed
non nationals, the homeless, and travellers.
are not counted therefore the census is flawed and invalidated
your religion should not be answered. the govt dont do churches
how many children born alive should not be answered
how many rooms in your house?? none of their business
how many computers you own??? handy info for dell
and can anyone really believe all that juciy valuable information is kept secret, yawn.......#
all it takes is one CD.
dont be fooled
the americans used the census info to roundup american japanese citizens and throw them in a pow in the 40s ,,not that they had commited any crime solely the fact they were or their fathers or mothers were born in japan
a head count for the country no problem
the rest is private
when you go for a job anywhere in the world they cannot ask you what your religion is??
we elect TDS to inform govt of where we need new roads hospitals etc
anyone see where they are going to build the national childrens hospital
in the middle of a city?/ theres well used census information
wake up ireland wake up

that's a whole lot of negative nonsense