NEW LAKE

rugerman

hi all just to let ye know new 4 acre lake opening in south kilkenny stocking rainbow trout from 6-20 lbs opening start of march log cabin for refreshments and outside bbq beautifull surroundings daily prices and opening hours unkown as yet thank you

experimenter

Thanks for info...

Is it fly only or mixed?

rugerman

fly and worms only

experimenter

Worms! Does anyone use worms any more, is it not sweet corn?

rugerman

his theory is with the worms is they grow faster get stronger not as easy to catch and better fight sweetcorn is too easy ye think

Chopperdog 2

Why would someone stock a fishery with fish from 6 to 20lb and then permit worm fishing?

It truly doesnt make sense to me?

There is virtually no chance of successflly returning a worm hooked fish.

Does this man have no value of the big weight fish in his lake that could be caught and released a number of times on fly, yet only once on worms.

Or is the lake primarily stocked with smaller sized fish that the proprietor doesnt mind being caught and killed on worms?

Strange policy by my reckoning, if such big fish are in the lake....

spcw

Where in KK is it ?

experimenter

I suppose there's no commercial value having fly anglers only..

Garryhill is a prime example, polish guys over there beating the water, while others are trying to have a bit of sport. I even had them come over to me, asking me give them the fish rather than releasing them..

What with all the lakes in Garryhill you would think they would have one for fly only....

Rant over.

ironbluedun

Chopperdog 2 wrote: »

There is virtually no chance of successflly returning a worm hooked fish.

dont say that there are loads of 'anglers' on here who believe otherwise.

rugerman

spcw wrote: »

Where in KK is it ?

its in mooncoin south kilkenny

Evac105

ironbluedun wrote: »

dont say that there are loads of 'anglers' on here who believe otherwise.

Oh dear...

I've caught very few fish over the last 10 years on worm, I moved away from it because I didn't find it challenging any more. That said it's the methodology most worm fishers use and not the bait that is responsible for the state of the fish when they are un-hooked. To state definitively, much less derisively, otherwise is a sign to me that a person is unaware of the difference. The vast majority of the probably <20 fish I have caught on worm (mostly in the process of demonstrating the method) in that decade have been hooked in the mouth or scissors using something quite similar to upstream nymphing.

As I said, and as shown by my ratio of fly caught to worm caught fish in that time period being probably in the 80:1 range, I have no particular affection for bait fishing but to discount bait fishers as a lesser breed as you seem to actually demeans you rather then them with your attitude.

<edit> I may of course be a little prickly today of course..... </edit>

ironbluedun

Evac105 wrote: »

Oh dear...

I've caught very few fish over the last 10 years on worm, I moved away from it because I didn't find it challenging any more. That said it's the methodology most worm fishers use and not the bait that is responsible for the state of the fish when they are un-hooked. To state definitively, much less derisively, otherwise is a sign to me that a person is unaware of the difference. The vast majority of the probably <20 fish I have caught on worm (mostly in the process of demonstrating the method) in that decade have been hooked in the mouth or scissors using something quite similar to upstream nymphing.

As I said, and as shown by my ratio of fly caught to worm caught fish in that time period being probably in the 80:1 range, I have no particular affection for bait fishing but to discount bait fishers as a lesser breed as you seem to actually demeans you rather then them with your attitude.

<edit> I may of course be a little prickly today of course..... </edit>

ah good man evac...sure you are just a great lad.....i dont suppose you were in ballina in mid july when 'anglers' above the boxes were reefing the hooks from the throaths of undersized fish 1-1.5lbs or so and throwing them back in to bleed to death...you see despite you trying to insult me in your second paragraph i actually do fish worm for salmon and for your benefit i do know how to fish it properly.
sadly the problem is an awful lot of anglers dont know or just dont care about the damage they can do and this is my point. worm is far more likely to be incorrectly fished than any other salmon bait therefore the damage to undersized salmon, kelts, parr, trout or coloured salmon to name a few is terminal. So me being a salmon worm angler and just a mere lesser breed as you say is just stating a fact as outlined above.

as you are such an expert can i ask you a question why is worm banned once an angler reaches his/her daily quota?

Evac105

ironbluedun wrote: »

ah good man evac...sure you are just a great lad.....i dont suppose you were in ballina in mid july when 'anglers' above the boxes were reefing the hooks from the throaths of undersized fish 1-1.5lbs or so and throwing them back in to bleed to death

No I wasn't in Ballina, I've only ever passed through Ballina to be honest. The fact remains however that what you're angry/complaining about isn't the bait they're using but the method it's being used in and the behaviour they're exhibiting.

ironbluedun wrote: »

...you see despite you trying to insult me in your second paragraph i actually do fish worm for salmon and for your benefit i do know how to fish it properly.

So why are you insisting on equating worm with 'bad'? The majority of people using worm are either starting off at angling and will move onto other methods in the future or people who know how to trott it properly and don't, by and large, harm the fish. You're classifying a whole bunch of people by some bad eggs, it's like referring to all Irish as drunken priest paedophiles based on the small but highly publicised minority who are. I realise we're talking about fishing here and not ruining a childs life which is an entirely different gravity of an issue before anyone accuses me of comparing the two - I'm comparing the method of classification not the nature of the offence.

ironbluedun wrote: »

sadly the problem is an awful lot of anglers dont know or just dont care about the damage they can do and this is my point. worm is far more likely to be incorrectly fished than any other salmon bait therefore the damage to undersized salmon, kelts, parr, trout or coloured salmon to name a few is terminal. So me being a salmon worm angler and just a mere lesser breed as you say is just stating a fact as outlined above.

Then this is a matter of education for those anglers not something to use as evidence that they should be referred to condescendingly as "anglers" as you did. I'll remind you that was your reference and not mine and what predicated this entire exchange. So to clarify - it's not worm you object to but some people who happen to use worm fishing predomanately, not even a majority of people who use that particular bait, which leaves me left with the inevitable conclusion, from your statements:

that worm fishing is fine but some people who fish are not what you would consider to be anglers (with the inherent gentlemanly associations with the term). That these people would still not be anglers regardless of the bait used because of the damage which they do to stocks and the disregard they display for the resource and others?

See that I can agree with - whereas the original context of:

ironbluedun wrote: »

Chopperdog 2 wrote: »

There is virtually no chance of successflly returning a worm hooked fish.

dont say that there are loads of 'anglers' on here who believe otherwise.

is something completely different I think you would have to agree.

ironbluedun wrote: »

as you are such an expert can i ask you a question why is worm banned once an angler reaches his/her daily quota?

For me personally in my completely amateur opinion, never having claimed to be a member of a fish management organisation of any kind? It's perceived as a very efficient bait for catching fish and with the reputation it has with some anglers is also perceived as being a destructive bait to fish with though, as we seem to have both asserted it's not the bait but the method that's the problem in that regard.

rugerman

u can use fly aswell lads for the fishermen that dont like using the WORM:eek:

mikeyqu

Being a lifelong fisher who started on the worm fishing then progressed to fly fishing wet and dry, but mostly wets, I feel rather than the method of fishing to be concerned about it`s our stock of fish we should be concerned about, increasing and protecting them should be our first concern, but i`m afraid I agree with the notion that worm fishing can ultimately hurt a fish too much to return it successfully, depending how well hooked the fish is, fish caught on a fly have been successfully returned and caught again, this does not mean it should be banned or rather policed in a way where less fish should be caught by the worm fisher.
Since the ban on drift netting and the relatively good summers for salmon focus should really return to poaching by native and foreign poachers and by predatory control.

That said can`t wait for 1st Feb.:)

dermo f

Did anyone hear anything about this opening up yet?

jett

Its opening some time this month, possibly on the 17th!
At E30 per day and take one fish only under 2lb it will be another lake littered with wasted fish corpses like a few more I won't mention!
BTW my info is from the owners mouth, ask the fisheries office in Clonmel for more details.

zziplex

€30 :eek: thats a bit steep..... My local lakes are way cheaper and offer a catch and release price also which is cool.

davidk11811

ironbluedun wrote: »

you see despite you trying to insult me in your second paragraph i actually do fish worm for salmon and for your benefit i do know how to fish it properly.

So if you know how to fish the worm properly why don't you share that knowledge with less experienced anglers instead of frowning upon their methods...

experimenter

€20 max for any stocked fishery, otherwise good luck. There's enough fisheries to choose from..

bayliner

30euro??? wont be travellin there:rolleyes:

dermo f

jett wrote: »

Its opening some time this month, possibly on the 17th!
At E30 per day and take one fish only under 2lb it will be another lake littered with wasted fish corpses like a few more I won't mention!
BTW my info is from the owners mouth, ask the fisheries office in Clonmel for more details.

Cheers jett
30 quid is a bit steep, if the fish are going to be the normal stockie 2lb size. I'd pay this if they were between the 6-20lb mark as originally stated.

jett

i was told they are stocking big fish ( how many is anyones guess) and that its pay extra to take bigger fish than 2lb.
As I said get full info via waterboard and they will pass on his number.
I am amazed at the stupidity of returning bigger fish that are totally stressed.
I also see no reason to have fish bigger than 5lb.
I fish an 8ft 4 wt rod and have landed 10 lbdrs with ease. They cannot break off because the rod gives.
Would not reccommend that light a rod for even 3 lb Reservoir fish that have naturalised. For stockies and small fisheries light gear is much less tiring to use.

experimenter

I don't understand your comments about not having fish over 5lb and stressing fishing..
Can I remind everyone that, it's good practice to use barbless hooks, personally I use them all the time and I rarely take a fish out of water unless I am taking a quick photo..

experimenter

jett wrote: »

I fish an 8ft 4 wt rod and have landed 10 lbdrs with ease. They cannot break off because the rod gives.

:eek: 10lb leader jeez that must land in a ball when casting!!

jett

Its a fact that the bigger a fish gets its body weight to heart size changes for the worse.
The fact that people play a big fish for ages means they get worn out.
People want a photo with a big fish so it comes out of the water.
A Rainbow is purely a food item as they don't grow very old. The big fish can be brood fish that have been used for their eggs and have mended.
Its cruel to repeatedly catch and return fish.
If anyone wants to see the results of overstocking and overfishing then a lake in the midlands will demonstrate that.
Dead fish all over the place, what a waste of food.
BTW places overstock because fish are cheeper by the thousand.
Its a sad thing to use a living creature in such a way but thats the way it is.
Also most rainbows in this country are not triploid therefore they are spawny at certain times of the year. Thats what happens when we ignore seasons for profit.

My reference to 10 lbders is fish weight. Leader strength does not matter too much, 8 lb line will land anything IMHO.

I used to enjoy my rainbow fishing more in England because the stocking rates are not high and the fish are worth catching because you don't get them so easy. Also they are generally caught and killed to avoid damage/disease.
Here it tends to be very easy to catch lots of them if you are half decent with a rod. Therefore i don't go to often.

BTW before anyone has a go I have been at it for nearly half a century so have a reasonable bit of experience.

thehamo

jett wrote: »

BTW before anyone has a go I have been at it for nearly half a century so have a reasonable bit of experience.

former Fianna Fail minsters were at it for more than half a century and they royaly f*$@ed it up!:P (Just a joke, I can see where you are coming from(

coolwings

jett wrote: »

...The fact that people play a big fish for ages means they get worn out..

But that is not the way it's supposed to be done. We should play a fish hard and the exertion induces muscular cramp. The fish should be played out in such a way that no more than 3-5 minutes passes, 10 minutes being considered very long. Lactic acid builds up in the muscles faster than it is removed by respiration and blood circulation. The fish then is is temporarily fought to a standstill in the same way that a human runner with leg cramp cannot move the leg. And that's why it will recover quickly once it catches it's breath.
However not everybody plays fish out with enough confidence, keeping it moving and exerting itself. The use of overlight tackle, or lack of faith in the tackle, or sheer novice skills at playing big fish lead to not pressurizing the fish enough. That leads to overlong fights, and in those situations a fish is stressed. This is more like a marathon runner's exhaustion, and such exhaustion can be dangerous for both mankind and fish if they are not in top condition.

jett wrote: »

...People want a photo with a big fish so it comes out of the water...

The experienced angler will release without removing the fish from the water so no problems there. But of course commercial fisheries have more learners than the average fishery. And as you say, out it comes for a photo session.

jett wrote: »

...Its cruel to repeatedly catch and return fish....

Are you sure? I cannot prove that re-caught stockies learn they will be returned and the fight is "adjusted downwards" by a familiarity in some fish but I have suspicions this occurs.

jett wrote: »

...If anyone wants to see the results of overstocking and overfishing then a lake in the midlands will demonstrate that.
Dead fish all over the place, what a waste of food. BTW places overstock because fish are cheeper by the thousand.....

I'm sorry to hear that. Bad practise indeed. Would you drop me a pm of the one you refer to? However over stocking and resulting loss of stock is bad husbandry. From the business point of view very bad for profits? In the case where too many fish have been introduced the fishery owner would be wise to insist on a take rate of 1 or 2 per angler until the stock level is back to sustainable. I have been asked by a few fishery managers to take some fish at times, so some are wise to this. I often ask at the days start what he prefers, and if he wants plenty taken I offer to take them and pay an agreed amount, we both get what we want. He gets room to rollover with fresh stock, I have adequate fish frozen which removes possible desire to take wild fish on other waters.

jett wrote: »

...Also most rainbows in this country are not triploid therefore they are spawny at certain times of the year. Thats what happens when we ignore seasons for profit......

The triploids cost more, and as you say many fisheries don't use them with March-April spawny trout as a consequence. But more anglers return to fisheries with triploids, silvery finned missiles that they are!
I would recommend fisheries to a beginner and mention the reason for the choice of water as being triploid (fighting fit) or diploid (gravid with spawn) trout in the water. It matters at the early season, and once explained it is an obvious factor in choosing where to fish at that time.
Rainbow fishing is newer here than the UK, but the penny is dropping with anglers and I begin to see the triploid quality being noticed and mentioned in fishing reports about different waters. So I think we are slowly getting there as time passes.

jett wrote: »

...BTW before anyone has a go I have been at it for nearly half a century so have a reasonable bit of experience.

Agree with you more or less .

jett

... because we fish at different times, places and conditions change, even the "abilities" of anglers change from day to day.
In other words, I am generalising.
My observations are that on put and take fisheries that are heavilly stocked, a kind of over the top attitude can take place amongst begginers that can infect those who should no better.
What happens is that the fish are being caught easilly, they are then treated with less respect, hot spots are hogged. Fish are hauled out and chucked back as quick as possible to get another one.
If you catch a fish an hour over four hours then you have had satisfying sport IMHO.
If a water is managed properly then large deliveries can be accomadated in fish cages to aclimatise and can be trickle stocked to match catches.
Stick em in all at once and they will be caught all at once.
As for stock fish aclimatising and taking natural food, I have never taken a stocked rainbow that had food in it?
Stocked fisheries are relativly new here so there is much to learn

coolwings

There are a couple of things that can happen when a stockie dies or is returned and dies.
If crayfish are present they will strip the carcass, and become good trout food themselves. Perch and pike love them too by the way, but there won't be any of them in a commercial trout lake.
And option number two is one of the very big stockies often present in these waters comes along later, and it finds and eats it's favourite food, a sizeable dead trout! The big ones can eat a trout a fifth of their weight! Try to picture a 15 pounder downing a three pounder that was mishandled and returned to die! It partly explains why such big fish don't go back in condition in those relatively small lakes, and why with their big food requirements we're not catching them all the time.
A lot depends on circumstances.

rugerman

hi lads if u google adairesprings.com u will get all your info for the new lake in kilkenny thanks rugerman

experimenter

Googled and Only two results and none of them are informative!

jett

... your link on this site ?
As I said earlier the river board at clonmel can put you on to the owner

rugerman

rugerman wrote: »

hi lads if u google adairesprings.com u will get all your info for the new lake in kilkenny thanks rugerman

very sorry lads its ardairesprings.com left out the R AGAIN SORRY BOUT THAT:o:o

experimenter

Yep that link works..

The very best to all those involved, I will add it to my google fisheries map..

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=213307294289166451151.00049932b520bba9bf623&ll=53.755207,-7.130127&spn=3.586028,7.064209&z=7

jett

A very good website that shows the amount of work put into construction of the fishery.
But at one fish for E30 ( considering how cheap they are from the hatchery) no thanks.

rugerman

open last weekend and got a lot of good fish alot of money yes but he taught me to use fly rod never used it before and i taught i would hate it but fell in love with it had a great day and got a lot of good hard fighting fish (save up for next day):D

rugerman

just to let you all know theres an opening day this saturday bbq lots for the kids free u14 kids fishing comp and adult fly fishing comp 10euro between 12 and 4 if weather is good please god

flounder

I was over there last week, we paid 20euro for 4 hours which is a bit steep when other local lakes are charging 10-15euro for the day and you can keep more than 1 fish. he didnt look to happy when i showed him the fish i was bringin home but after paying 20 euro i was'nt goin home empty handed.
Its a nice spot BUT they should lower the price or leave you take home more then one 1kg fish

rugerman

flounder wrote: »

I was over there last week, we paid 20euro for 4 hours which is a bit steep when other local lakes are charging 10-15euro for the day and you can keep more than 1 fish. he didnt look to happy when i showed him the fish i was bringin home but after paying 20 euro i was'nt goin home empty handed.
Its a nice spot BUT they should lower the price or leave you take home more then one 1kg fish

definatly lower the price and he get a lot more visitors ye its sad u can only (supposed )to kill fish under 2lb