How Is Ireland Such A Sh!thole?

RockinRolla

Just got back from traveling and as soon as I arrived, the first thing I seen were primitive skangers - it's good to be home etc.. Now, I've put some thought into this and I've come to the conclusion that it's our social system letting these "couldn't be bothered to do a days work when theres free money" maggots walk the same streets as regular folk.

Think about it.

The reason Ireland is such a sh!thole is because the burden of society in this country are given the means to live at a similar level as the rest of us, meaning, they are in a good position to impose their values or even their presence in our everyday lives.

People complain that these scumbags are hanging around their neighbourhoods. The reason they're hanging around your neighbourhood for christ sake is because they're given the money to live like you! If not, these sh!t-for-brains (honestly, basic intelligence needs to be beat into certain people) would be living in estates far far away from you.

If there was no social welfare, these people would soon find out how jolly it was to live in a wonderland.

kerryman12

a bit victorian, dont you think?

DrumSteve

mrs.bucket?

BickNarry

Where you on your 'gap yah'?

Mr. Loverman

I agree with you about the amount of skangers. I am also recently back from travelling (including being in many poor countries) and was quickly reminded about Ireland's large skanger population when I got back home.

It's weird. The UK has the same problem too. I don't know why.

RGDATA!

travel seems to have really opened your mind

WindSock

Gotta keep 'em separated....


I love when people come back from travelling even more bigoted than before. It seems to broaden the mind alright.

RockinRolla

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I agree with you about the amount of skangers. I am also recently back from travelling (including being in many poor countries) and was quickly reminded about Ireland's large skanger population when I got back home.

It's weird. The UK has the same problem too. I don't know why.

Its the same in France too...bloody social system.

I bet you never seen scumbags walking the streets in the disadvantaged countries you visited...thats because they're off rotting in some ghetto somewhere leaving the people who actually want to make something of their lives in peace.

Proxy

RockinRolla wrote:

basic intelligence needs to be beat into certain people

Please provide address.

Jesus Wept

RockinRolla wrote: »

basic intelligence needs to be beat into certain people

You're right there Ted...

starbelgrade

This thread is already an early contender for "Most Retarded Thread of 2011".

should have given them the money you used to go travelling...

now straight to the dole queue with you!

mikemac

What is it with some people who return from travelling being realy smug and know it alls?

If you don't like it here then head away to that paradise you've returned from.

Wolfe Tone

Maybe we should just shoot them all?

mickydoomsux

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I agree with you about the amount of skangers. I am also recently back from travelling (including being in many poor countries) and was quickly reminded about Ireland's large skanger population when I got back home.

It's weird. The UK has the same problem too. I don't know why.

We pretty much copy everything England does regarding social policy including giving scobes an easy life because of our liberal guilt.

We throw free money, travel and housing at the "disadvantaged" hoping they'll actually become worthwhile people while what we're actually doing is showing them that they can be complete wasters and everyone else in society will just prop them up.

It means that a large portion of our (and Englands) population have become a "welfare class" who are shameless in their utter shiftlessness and laziness and disregard for the rules of normal society basically because we pay them to be scumbags and turn a blind eye to their transgressions.

RockinRolla

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Maybe we should just shoot them all?

Thats a bit extreme.

I'd settle for no social welfare. The only people who should receive state aid should be those with illnesses, children and the elderly.

WindSock

RockinRolla wrote: »

I bet you never seen scumbags walking the streets in the disadvantaged countries you visited...

Yes I did*, they had machetes and raped every woman they saw of different ethnicity.







*In a film

Badgermonkey

When are you off again?

We could have a whip-around.

Wolfe Tone

RockinRolla wrote: »

Thats a bit extreme.

I'd settle for no social welfare. The only people who should receive state aid should be those with illnesses, children and the elderly.

You would have to sterilize some people though surely? Or else all the skangers will have even more kids.







Am I doing this right?

Ghandee

RockinRolla wrote: »

Just got back from traveling and as soon as I arrived, the first thing I seen were primitive skangers - it's good to be home etc.. Now, I've put some thought into this and I've come to the conclusion that it's our social system letting these "couldn't be bothered to do a days work when theres free money".

A traveller calling someone who gets 'free' money a skanger eh? Kettle calling the teapot black hole!

stovelid

Because Ireland is full of people that travel around the world sleeping in train stations for a month and then come back and complain about everything.

Mister men

Problems only getting worse. They are out breeding the normal people down my way by some distance.

Jesus Wept

RockinRolla wrote: »

Thats a bit extreme.

I'd settle for no social welfare. The only people who should receive state aid should be those with illnesses, children and the elderly.

Do you understand that the 'scumbags hanging around the neighbourhoods' will be stabbing you for your shopping or a fiver if there is no welfare?

rossie1977

RockinRolla wrote: »

If there was no social welfare, these people would soon find out how jolly it was to live in a wonderland.

you blame social welfare for scumbags there is extensive social welfare systems in norway, sweden and finland but those places have a distinct lack of scumbags, there is no social welfare system in somalia and yeah that place is doing fine :rolleyes:

Star Bingo

people let themselves go. i do look down on the folk who adopted the chav culture from UK, hell sometimes i just want to slam a brick into the back of their skulls n sweep em off these irish streets but the sad fact is these kids are disillusioned emselves with being born into it as the norm as 3rd/4th gen by now, and going mental for it. you have to consider thats why they're so upset/disenfranchised/demasculinized, left on a permanent comedown from MDMA, mechanic metronomes and diva acapellas n left wondering just where do they go from here

mickydoomsux

The-Rigger wrote: »

Do you understand that the 'scumbags hanging around the neighbourhoods' will be stabbing you for your shopping or a fiver if there is no welfare?

What's their reason for doing it now, when there is welfare?

Will they still be given comedy-sentences like they get now for being "disadvantaged"?

Dangerous Man

I live in Toronto and one thing I really don't miss about Dublin is the skangers. In fact, the longer I live here, the more I'm frustrated at how we tolerate this kind of **** in our own cities. I lived in Crumlin / Dolphin's Barn in Dublin. Anywhere there's a shop or garage, there are skangers. They're badly dressed, and exhibit generally intimidatory behaviour. They simply have no conception of how to behave. They are allowed to get away with their disgusting rattish behaviour because there is no will to prosecute anti-social behaviour in Ireland. It's just not there. A problem we have in Dublin is that the majority of our police come from outside of Dublin; they often work in disadvantaged areas and are not motivated to develop intelligent policing solutions to anti-social behaviour.
In the 90s, when drug abuse and related crime was out of control, it was left to local groups to stand up to drug addicts and dealers in their areas. The Gardai did not fulfill their responsibilities in this way; they failed to protect citizens. They only began to take the problem seriously when local activists started to take control of the situation for themselves. The Gardai weren't worried about drug use or crime; they were worried about saving face. They continue to fail today. I believe a large component of that failure stems from the fact that police officers in areas such as Ballyfermot, Ballymun, Dolphin's Barn, Crumlin, Tallaght etc aren't from those areas - and simply don't care enough.

amacca

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It means that a large portion of our (and Englands) population have become a "welfare class" who are shameless in their utter shiftlessness and laziness and disregard for the rules of normal society basically because we pay them to be scumbags and turn a blind eye to their transgressions.

I mostly agree strangely enough.....we may not pay for them but we definitely seem to subsidise their lifestyles to a certain extent.

I'd have no problem with the payments at all though if their "transgressions" were dealt with more effectively so they could'nt "disregard for the rules of normal society"

I think the transgressions should go hand in hand with a reduction in payment

amacca

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I believe a large component of that failure stems from the fact that police officers in areas such as Ballyfermot, Ballymun, Dolphin's Barn, Crumlin, Tallaght etc aren't from those areas - and simply don't care enough.

Perhaps...but there are some very good reasons for not having exclusively or indeed a large proportion of "local police" for "local people"

Pete M.

How is Ireland such a sh1thole?

Because you came back?

RockinRolla

amacca wrote: »

Perhaps...but there are some very good reasons for not having exclusively or indeed a large proportion of "local police" for "local people"

To be fair, I think more direct action would be performed by Gardai from that particular area. They would know the location and be aware of its problems. There is also a deep need for community policing in Ireland such as a Neighbourhood Watch program, something future Governments need to consider.

A complete reform in how our police service operates is a long overdue necessity in this country. These animals feel they own the place and rightly so when we have a service this bad. In my estimation, Gards should be armed to deter criminals from committing offenses.

Dangerous Man

amacca wrote: »

I mostly agree strangely enough.....we may not pay for them but we definitely seem to subsidise their lifestyles to a certain extent.

I'd have no problem with the payments at all though if their "transgressions" were dealt with more effectively so they could'nt "disregard for the rules of normal society"

I think the transgressions should go hand in hand with a reduction in payment

No. This is wrong. A person receives social welfare because they have no other sufficient form of income. If a person on social welfare committs a crime, their circumstances that brought them to the social welfare system haven't changed. Their need hasn't diminished. By all means prosecute them, but do so in an egalitarian fashion; if a person with a high income were to commit a similar transgression he wouldn't have to endure the humiliation of having his only means of income reduced / removed. I'm all for punishing crime, but only in a fair manner. Punishment should deter further transgressions. Remoing social welfare payments won't do anything except increase the possibility of additional crime.

Quiet you

The issue isn't how much social welfare we give out or where the free houses are located. It's the commit a crime and not get punished lark that we've embraced so wholeheartedly.

Here's what I wanna see by the end of the year. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and people that have been caught attempting these things (getting caught with an offensive weapon too) to be punished via an organ 'donation' scheme. These crimes are that of taking or ruining lives so its only fitting that they should have to give unfortunate worthwhile people a second chance. This could also help the economy seeing as we could sell the surplus organs to other countries.

As for lesser crimes like burglary, shop lifting and such i think a simple explosive necklace tracker thingy would work wonders. You get caught, you get a necklace. You commit a crime and if the system says you were there at the time, bang!

Now I know loads of you will get up on your high horse about this with comments like "you cant do that you fascist" or "two wrongs don't make a right, lets do it to you and see how you like it" but to all of you I simply say nuts.

The intelligent among you will be thinking " thats not such a bad idea but what about the aids riddled junkies? Who's gonna want their organs?" Its a good question and yes, I have the answer. Medical research. Why spend years and millions torturing poor bunnies for the replacement to anadin extra when we can just hand them over to some pharmaceutical company? They'd bite our hands off for the opportunity and we'd get a lot of job creation in the R&D sector.

Dangerous Man

amacca wrote: »

Perhaps...but there are some very good reasons for not having exclusively or indeed a large proportion of "local police" for "local people"

Absolutely. I agree. If a police force is 'too local' you then run the risk of police becoming corrupted by over-familiarity. But the position that exists now is completely unbalanced.

mickydoomsux

amacca wrote: »

I think the transgressions should go hand in hand with a reduction in payment

Indeed. If you had a job and picked up a conviction for something there's a pretty good chance you'd be fired, completely losing your income.

If you're on the welfare gravy train you can break as many laws as you like and still get all your payments and the guilty socially liberal judge will probably take it handy on you if you ever end up in court because you're a "disadvantaged" type.

BickNarry

mickydoomsux wrote: »

We pretty much copy everything England does regarding social policy

Ireland’s roots in social care/welfare lay in British rule. During the late 1700s and early 1800’s growing industrialisation in agriculture and manufacturing placed strains on traditional forms of welfare and social supports. Along with this, the growth of Industrialisation led to unemployment in rural areas, causing people to wander the country looking for work, and began to accumulate in cities. In 1938, the Poor Law act introduced a nationwide system of poor relief based on the workhouse, financed by a local property tax. It was closely modelled on the same law which was introduced in Britain in 1834.

So yeah,like Britain not by choice.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

including giving scobes an easy life because of our liberal guilt.

In the late 19th century, social work emerged out of numerous voluntary groups, such as St. Vincent de Paul and the Sisters of Charity. In this first phase of the development of the profession at the end of 19th century, over 10 percent of the population were living in extreme poverty and there were over 400 charitable groups in Dublin providing social services to the ‘deserving’ and ‘respectable’ poor (Darling, 1972). With the tension between Catholic and Protestant Churches at the time, religious charities were being more motivated to provide for their communities. Catholic organisations tended to provide a wide range of services whereas the Protestant organisations specialised in certain areas and were more concerned with social reform. These Christian valued remained central to social work right up until the 1960’s and the raising of funds and administrating funds to those who deserved it remained a primary task for religious orders throughout the 19th Century and into the 20th century.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

We throw free money, travel and housing at the "disadvantaged" hoping they'll actually become worthwhile people while what we're actually doing is showing them that they can be complete wasters and everyone else in society will just prop them up.

I'm not even gonna bother,we all know thats not what goes on.

RockinRolla

Quiet you wrote: »

The issue isn't how much social welfare we give out or where the free houses are located. It's the commit a crime and not get punished lark that we've embraced so wholeheartedly.

Here's what I wanna see by the end of the year. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and people that have been caught attempting these things (getting caught with an offensive weapon too) to be punished via an organ 'donation' scheme. These crimes are that of taking or ruining lives so its only fitting that they should have to give unfortunate worthwhile people a second chance. This could also help the economy seeing as we could sell the surplus organs to other countries.

As for lesser crimes like burglary, shop lifting and such i think a simple explosive necklace tracker thingy would work wonders. You get caught, you get a necklace. You commit a crime and if the system says you were there at the time, bang!

Now I know loads of you will get up on your high horse about this with comments like "you cant do that you fascist" or "two wrongs don't make a right, lets do it to you and see how you like it" but to all of you I simply say nuts.

The intelligent among you will be thinking " thats not such a bad idea but what about the aids riddled junkies? Who's gonna want their organs?" Its a good question and yes, I have the answer. Medical research. Why spend years and millions torturing poor bunnies for the replacement to anadin extra when we can just hand them over to some pharmaceutical company? They'd bite our hands off for the opportunity and we'd get a lot of job creation in the R&D sector.

It's settled then - sell the fcukers off as guinea pigs.

Badgermonkey

Quiet you wrote: »

Here's what I wanna see by the end of the year. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and people that have been caught attempting these things (getting caught with an offensive weapon too) to be punished via an organ 'donation' scheme. These crimes are that of taking or ruining lives so its only fitting that they should have to give unfortunate worthwhile people a second chance. This could also help the economy seeing as we could sell the surplus organs to other countries.

I knew you hadn't gone away Minister McDowell, I just knew it.:)

Mr. Loverman

I know plenty of scumbags, but they all have decent jobs so they are too busy to be vandals, commit petty crimes, etc.

I think you either are or are not a scumbag. It just so happens that being unemployed gives you a lot of free time so you are more likely to act on your scumbag urges.

That's my theory anyway.

af_thefragile

Because we like it in the bum...

Which eventually has resulted in incontinence.
And this is why there's sh*t everywhere you see!!

Quiet you

It just makes sense. It costs a fortune to keep them in prison and thats if they get there at all. Why not make a return on the social welfare investment?

We got them fattened up and now its time to cash in.

Absurdum

IT'S THE PARENTSES FAULT JOE

Ali Babba

The main reason it's a sh!thole is it's being run by crooks who change the laws to suit them selves, there are too many bleeding hearts who feel sorry for every lame duck that comes forward and people are afraid to make a stand and say nothing for a quiet life. Anyone who tries to do anything good here are ridiculed or are made out to be making something out of it when they rock the boat.

This place is in such a state now I doubt it will ever be sorted.

Absurdum

imo one of the main reasons for this is that the politicians and people in general are afraid of their lives that they'll offend someone, it's the same craic in this forum as well

amacca

Dangerous Man wrote: »

No. This is wrong. A person receives social welfare because they have no other sufficient form of income. If a person on social welfare committs a crime, their circumstances that brought them to the social welfare system haven't changed. Their need hasn't diminished. By all means prosecute them, but do so in an egalitarian fashion; if a person with a high income were to commit a similar transgression he wouldn't have to endure the humiliation of having his only means of income reduced / removed. I'm all for punishing crime, but only in a fair manner. Punishment should deter further transgressions. Remoing social welfare payments won't do anything except increase the possibility of additional crime.

I see your point...but


1) subsistence or not (not imo in ireland) these people are receiving a benefit/handout with no work required - in a sense its unearned (the one thats not based on stamps anyway) - why should they receive the same rate after they have committed a crime against a citizen that presumably is helping support them

why shouldn't this be one of the strings attached to this benefit

cant we be egalitarian with those recipients that arent commiting crime/engaging in anti social behaviour - the criminals obviously don't believe in equality for law abiding citizens anyway

2) As another poster has stated - if someone working and with more of an income was prosecuted they wouldn't continue to earn at the same rate as beforehand what with not being able to work and having difficulty finding a job afterwards

3) our prisons are overcrowded but imo we still have a problem with anti-social behaviour/mindless thuggery brought on to a large extent by idle hands - so why not hit them where it hurts to a certain extent (in the wallet) - I believe it would lead to a reduction in "scumbaggishness" if it was going to cost you

saving on prison space/spend - saving on welfare payout

4) In the interests of being egalitarian - hit the rich too - whatever benefit they have obtained from their illegal activities - take it all back off them, no excuses/no shelters etc

amacca

Absurdum wrote: »

IT'S THE PARENTSES FAULT JOE

Excuse me but you dont sound like your from Clontarf.

Next caller ..pleeaaaase!

sollar

Why not cut the dole of people who break the law or are convicted of anti social behavior. Give them 10 or 20 less every week for a year etc. If it hits them in the pocket they might think twice.

If they are under 18 apply the same to their parents dole.

Quiet you

sollar wrote: »

If they are under 18 apply the same to their parents dole.

Now there's thunking. Force parents into taking a little responsibilty for their brats.

Nolanger

sollar wrote: »

Why not cut the dole of people who break the law or are convicted of anti social behavior.

Because they'll go to the Health Board and get money.

saywhatyousee

sollar wrote: »

Why not cut the dole of people who break the law or are convicted of anti social behavior. Give them 10 or 20 less every week for a year etc. If it hits them in the pocket they might think twice.

If they are under 18 apply the same to their parents dole.

good idea in "theory" however if thats was to happen vast area's would be turned into proper ghettos new orleans style.
what would you rather?
option 1.get jeered by 15yo's at spar(current system)
option 2.introduce your system and risked being car jacked every time you stop at a red light

Nodin

RockinRolla wrote: »

..............The reason Ireland is such a sh!thole is because the burden of society in this country are given the means to live at a similar level as the rest of us, meaning, they are in a good position to impose their values or even their presence in our everyday lives.

.........

So when the life of Brian and condoms were banned, there was all this **** about drink being sold in supermarkets and garages, joe duffy talking through his holy joe hole about headshops and similar such instances, it was the skangers that were responsible?