Why arent babies gagged/sedated in public?

amdublin

MarkR wrote: »

Yawn and meh. Excellent work. If you want to have a debate about this, then let's have a debate about this.


1. Do you have kids?

2. Were you a child at any stage? (I'm making a bit of an assumption here. The possibility remains that you are currently one.)

3. Did you at any stage in your childhood do or say anything that annoyed anyone? (Note point 2 may come in to play here


If you did, then you are being hypocritical.

So what's it going to be?

1. I prefer not to discuss my family on a public forum.
2. I was. A very good one.
3. No. I was brought up by parents with a strong ethos of discipline.

Bill2673

amdublin wrote: »

1. I prefer not to discuss my family on a public forum.
.

Funny that you don't have a problem discussing other people's families then.

Novella

Bill2673 wrote: »

I'd agree with that, but the original post was on babies.

I know, I know! I just quoted a post where the poster was talking about children and went with that. I'm okay with babies 'cause you can't exactly tell them to be quiet!

almostnever

Novella wrote: »

I was hoovering one evening, at about seven when there was a knock on my apartment door. I was asked would I mind not making such a racket by my neighbour 'cause her children were trying to sleep. Do I give a fuck? I have to listen to those little brats screaming around the apartment block all bloody day when I'm here. I mean they scream. They run riot as if the communal halls are a god damn playground. I'm so unbelievably sick of it. Grrrr.

That kind of thing really, really irritates me too. So you should put up with the nusiance caused by the kids playing excessively loudly all day, and yet once they're tired out and want some peace the world has to suddenly become a sound free vacuum? :rolleyes: The episode of SATC where Samantha goes out to a restaurant and is subjected to a screaming toddler but is chastised when she answers her mobile phone is a great example of it (SATC being realistic, you know there's a problem with society .)
It's just ridiculous. People saying "it's society, it's life in a public environment, deal with it" have to accept that there will be noise other than that caused by children, and they have to deal with that too. It's all about compromise and it feels as though the people who don't have children, and therefore can't understand anything to do with children and have no perspective (:rolleyes:) are the ones who get the short end of the stick.

hondasam

Bill2673 wrote: »

If a restaurant refused me because I had kids i would never ever return. This has never happened to me in ireland. As for 'removing me' because a child is upset.....yeah, lovely thought, thanks.

Next time I am going into a restaurant with my 6 month old, I will remember to survey her in advance on whether she is going to 'behave herself'. Thanks for the tip, and sorry for the sarcasm.

I'd say 8 times out of ten the kids are very well behaved for the first 45 minutes at least. Generally if they are antsy, and this usually only happens when we are waiting an age for the food, then i'll bring them out for a run around.

As for restaurants turning away business because your custom is better than mine.....i don't think they can afford to be fussy, plus because i don't get out often, maybe i will spend more than you do when I am there. Most of the restuarants we go to, we would be regulars at and the staff know us well.

I don't think it matters how well the staff know you, if your children are the cause of other customers complaining and refusing to pay for their meal then management will have to make a decision.

If I was in a restaurant and someone's child screamed for more than 20 minutes I would complain.

I know the are your children but Im not paying for a meal to have it ruined by screaming kids.

Im sure there are child friendly restaurants.

6 month old babies have no need to be in a restaurant.

fonecrusher1

FunnyStuff wrote: »

FFS, how can you even compare the two??? Idiotic

Great post^:rolleyes:

My point is, if we all had a sort of hey i don't give a sh!t, DEAL WITH IT sort of attitude then things will be bad for everyone.

- I bringing my kids to this restaurant & little jimmy & bill can scream their heads off, im hungry i don't care about the other 50 people here. Deal with it.

- Im having a jungle music party tonight midnight to 6 in the morning. Hmm what about the neighbours with young kids? Eh? ah sure thats life. Deal with it.

Consideration. Without it we're all fcuked.

If a child is upset, ok it can be hard to calm it down, but a parent will try, but the parents who just let their little brat go mental and misbehave need a slap just as much as the child does. Certain restaurants you can expect there to be kids so you just have to put up with it, but then other restaurants with decent food, nice ambience and there's your little Johnny roaring and shouting while you and your OH sip away at your chardonnay or whatever....just get a frickin babysitter or go to mcdonalds!

Bratty kids grow into bratty teenagers which grow into d**khead adults. If you want your kid to be liked when they grow up, teach it some manners now

Bill2673

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think it matters how well the staff know you, if your children are the cause of other customers complaining and refusing to pay for their meal then management will have to make a decision.

If I was in a restaurant and someone's child screamed for more than 20 minutes I would complain.

I know the are your children but Im not paying for a meal to have it ruined by screaming kids.

Im sure there are child friendly restaurants.

6 month old babies have no need to be in a restaurant.

I made the point re staff knowing me in relation to someone else who made a remark that its the people who don;t have kids who are repeat customers. "management will have to make decision"...will they now.....to suit you of course....yes.

There are child friendly restaurants. I don't generally bring the kids to Guilbauds or L'Ecrivain.

6 month old babies have no need to be in a restaurant.....Nobody on this planet has a "need" to be in a restaurant. Parents bring babies to a restaurant because they want to get out, not because they want to bring the 6 month old out. But of course parents should deny themselves that just to suit you.

Paul Durcan has a great poem call I am the Centre of the Universe, you should read it.

strobe

There should be a similar etiquette for babies as normal considerate people have with their mobile phones. Now you can't put your baby on silent so try to think of it like if when your mobile phone started to ring you would be unsure whether or not it would stop ringing again for 30 mins and had the loudest, most annoying ring tone ever invented. Where would you bring it with you? Into the cinema or library? Not a fukking chance in hell. Into a nice restaurant? Again, if you are a normal intelligent person, no fukking way. On a plane? Well of course not, you're not a fukking retard. Into a cafe for a quick cup of coffee and a sandwich? Yeah, sure why not. Chances are it won't go off. But if it did go off, unless you are a selfish inconsiderate fukk head, you would try your best to stop it for no more than 2 mins flat and then if you couldn't stop it, get up off your ass, leave your half drank coffee and half eaten sandwich there, and bring that piece of sh1t phone outside until it stopped.

This is how normal, considerate, non-selfish, intelligent, human beings behave.

Now before someone comes along and says "a baby isn't a malfunctioning mobile phone with a high pitched annoying ear shattering ring tone." Well yes, that is exactly what it is to every single person on the planet that isn't you, the donor of the other half of it's genes or it's grand parents. They are only special to you and those other people and their stupid never ending teeth scratchingly bad ring tone is only bearable to you and those people for any amount of time longer than the aforementioned 2 mins flat.

hondasam

Bill2673 wrote: »

I made the point re staff knowing me in relation to someone else who made a remark that its the people who don;t have kids who are repeat customers. "management will have to make decision"...will they now.....to suit you of course....yes.

There are child friendly restaurants. I don't generally bring the kids to Guilbauds or L'Ecrivain.

6 month old babies have no need to be in a restaurant.....Nobody on this planet has a "need" to be in a restaurant. Parents bring babies to a restaurant because they want to get out, not because they want to bring the 6 month old out. But of course parents should deny themselves that just to suit you.

Paul Durcan has a great poem call I am the Centre of the Universe, you should read it.

There is no need to throw a tantrum.

I hope the kids are better behaved than you.

everyone is the center of their own universe.

Bill2673

Ok....this thread is now becoming quite offensive. Strobe I don't need you or anyone else to tell me how normal, considerate, non-selfish, intelligent, human beings behave....the catholic church did that for years and look where that got us.

If you want to compare a baby to a mobile phone then good luck to you, but i live on planet earth where babies are considered (by some people) to be humans.

look at it this way, if you saw a grown adult screaming in distress in a restaurant, would your first thought be "that pr*ck is ruining my meal"? Maybe it would.....it wouldn't be my first thought if an adult was crying and its not my first thought if a baby is crying.

Johro

Nevore wrote: »

I know little Jenny is probably a dote but if she starts crying while I'm enjoying my brekkie stand the fúck up and do something rather than carrying on as if you can't hear it.
All seriousness aside, how do you deal with someone who won't make even a token effort? Babies cry, that's fine, but they can also be calmed down with a little bit of effort.

Crybaby.

ynul31f47k6b59

I'm not the type of person who goes to restaurants very much - I was brought up with that whole "sure there are spuds at home, why pay for some other lad to cook them" kind of attitude, but on the rare occasion when we used to bring our boy out for Sunday Lunch when he was a baby, I'd be absolutely mortified if he kicked off, and 9 times out of 10 I'd walk out - hungry or not. Don't lynch me, but I think it says a lot about a parent if they ignore a child who is screaming blue murder in public and annoying everyone else. The child isn't screaming for nothing, and needs to be attended to.

I understand that kids will be kids, and babies are different - (you can't exactly tell an 8 month old to be quiet) but I've warned my son to behave in public ever since he was old enough to understand (and he's by no means an angel - he can be a right little hellraiser when he wants to be, but he wouldn't be brought anywhere if he was in bad form). I think there's a fine line - we went to see Santa a few weeks ago, and there were refreshments for the parents. Some kids were absolute angels, some were excited, some were cranky and tired, and some were just downright bloody bold, with no sign of any parent to tell them to settle down.

Like it or not, some people just do not give a damn how their kids behave, and their excuse seems to be "ah, sure they're just kids". Well sorry, no. If my child was running round being a nuisance, I'd either tell him off or I'd leave immediately. Go into any pub on a Sunday afternoon - it's like a bloody creche round my neck of the woods anyway. Sorry for the long-winded rant, I just don't think it's fair that some of us try really hard to be considerate while others think it's fine to dump their kids at the door and have a meal/drink while their kids run amok.

Bill2673

hondasam wrote: »

There is no need to throw a tantrum.

I hope the kids are better behaved than you.

everyone is the center of their own universe.

Attack the post, not the poster, its one of the rules on this website.

You made a point; I contradicted it. If you have a come back, then lets hear it. If you don't have a comeback then take care and enjoy your meal.

Bill2673

Eason Raspy Coffee wrote: »

I'm not the type of person who goes to restaurants very much - I was brought up with that whole "sure there are spuds at home, why pay for some other lad to cook them" kind of attitude, but on the rare occasion when we used to bring our boy out for Sunday Lunch when he was a baby, I'd be absolutely mortified if he kicked off, and 9 times out of 10 I'd walk out - hungry or not. Don't lynch me, but I think it says a lot about a parent if they ignore a child who is screaming blue murder in public and annoying everyone else. The child isn't screaming for nothing, and needs to be attended to.

I understand that kids will be kids, and babies are different - (you can't exactly tell an 8 month old to be quiet) but I've warned my son to behave in public ever since he was old enough to understand (and he's by no means an angel - he can be a right little hellraiser when he wants to be, but he wouldn't be brought anywhere if he was in bad form). I think there's a fine line - we went to see Santa a few weeks ago, and there were refreshments for the parents. Some kids were absolute angels, some were excited, some were cranky and tired, and some were just downright bloody bold, with no sign of any parent to tell them to settle down.

Like it or not, some people just do not give a damn how their kids behave, and their excuse seems to be "ah, sure they're just kids". Well sorry, no. If my child was running round being a nuisance, I'd either tell him off or I'd leave immediately. Go into any pub on a Sunday afternoon - it's like a bloody creche round my neck of the woods anyway. Sorry for the long-winded rant, I just don't think it's fair that some of us try really hard to be considerate while others think it's fine to dump their kids at the door and have a meal/drink while their kids run amok.

The thread is about babies. Kids running around is a different argument.

phill106

omen80 wrote: »

That is true, but photos of babies remind me of how annoying they are!

Tell me about it!

Signed:
dad

fonecrusher1

Eason Raspy Coffee wrote: »

I'm not the type of person who goes to restaurants very much - I was brought up with that whole "sure there are spuds at home, why pay for some other lad to cook them" kind of attitude, but on the rare occasion when we used to bring our boy out for Sunday Lunch when he was a baby, I'd be absolutely mortified if he kicked off, and 9 times out of 10 I'd walk out - hungry or not. Don't lynch me, but I think it says a lot about a parent if they ignore a child who is screaming blue murder in public and annoying everyone else. The child isn't screaming for nothing, and needs to be attended to.

I understand that kids will be kids, and babies are different - (you can't exactly tell an 8 month old to be quiet) but I've warned my son to behave in public ever since he was old enough to understand (and he's by no means an angel - he can be a right little hellraiser when he wants to be, but he wouldn't be brought anywhere if he was in bad form). I think there's a fine line - we went to see Santa a few weeks ago, and there were refreshments for the parents. Some kids were absolute angels, some were excited, some were cranky and tired, and some were just downright bloody bold, with no sign of any parent to tell them to settle down.

Like it or not, some people just do not give a damn how their kids behave, and their excuse seems to be "ah, sure they're just kids". Well sorry, no. If my child was running round being a nuisance, I'd either tell him off or I'd leave immediately. Go into any pub on a Sunday afternoon - it's like a bloody creche round my neck of the woods anyway. Sorry for the long-winded rant, I just don't think it's fair that some of us try really hard to be considerate while others think it's fine to dump their kids at the door and have a meal/drink while their kids run amok.

Well you sound like an intelligent, responsible parent who does consider those around you. Im sure your kid will turn out all the better for it. Fairplay.

If only there were more like you.:)

Some other people want their kids to be everybody elses problem when it suits them.

hondasam

Bill2673 wrote: »

Attack the post, not the poster, its one of the rules on this website.

You made a point; I contradicted it. If you have a come back, then lets hear it. If you don't have a comeback then take care and enjoy your meal.

maby you should practise what you preach.

ynul31f47k6b59

Bill2673 wrote: »

The thread is about babies. Kids running around is a different argument.

I'm not talking about older kids running around. I'm talking about young children, toddlers, and babies of walking age who cause annoyance to others - be it by running around, screaming, throwing a bottle round, throwing food around - parents plonking a 2-year old in a buggy where it is constantly kicking, roaring to get out, banging things off the tray - and being ignored by parents.

kowloon

I'm fairly sure there's a good reason we find the sound of a baby crying so unpleasant. We don't like babies to be upset. Any parent that ignores their child when they're upset and makes no effort shouldn't have a child.

Now everyone calm down and remember that babies are people too.

kowloon

kowloon wrote: »

I'm fairly sure there's a good reason we find the sound of a baby crying so unpleasant. We don't like babies to be upset. Any parent that ignores their child when they're upset and makes no effort shouldn't have a child.

Now everyone calm down and remember that babies are people too.

they are???? feck....

fonecrusher1

Bill2673 wrote: »

prim-nosed twenty somethings

Bill2673 wrote: »

Paul Durcan has a great poem call I am the Centre of the Universe, you should read it.

Bill2673 wrote: »

Attack the post, not the poster, its one of the rules on this website.

Christ you really should listen to your own advice.

Copper23

Every parent thinks their baby is an angel, never causes trouble, never cries, is well behaved and if they ever do feel their parenting methods are just perfect. So really I'm not accepting that argument.

Bottom line is that there are times and places where you'll accept parents can bring their children. But there are times where they just shouldn't.

The only argument for having child/non-child zones come from the fact that people are unable to self-regulate themselves in terms of where it appropriate to bring children/babies.

If people can't self-regulate without a bit of cop on (which a lot don't) then I'm all for the division. Kids can be great but there are times and palces that crying children and buggies pissing everything off being clipped in the heels in busy places just isn't on. It's not fun for the adults who need to put up with it. It's ignorant of the parent and for the childs sake they have no need or place being there most of the time.

MarkR

amdublin wrote: »

1. I prefer not to discuss my family on a public forum.
2. I was. A very good one.
3. No. I was brought up by parents with a strong ethos of discipline.

Wait, are you telling me you never cried?

chicken fingers

Well, many people raise loud kids who will not ever be controlled.
Other families raise kids who know WHEN and WHERE they should and can and can not be loud and run around.
On the beach, sure go for it.
In the garden or countryside, go nuts!
Playground? Go hell for leather.
In a nice restaurant? Sit down, be a good boy and drink your juice and eat your big boy food with a knife and fork.

When I was growing up, my parents taught me MANNERS.
Its a cop out to say "ahh sure you dont have kids so you dont know anything"
Most people will have kids at some stage, no big deal. But raise them with good manners and some discipline. When dad says sit down now and be quiet good boy, that should have an effect. Kids lives do not and should not have to be constant play.

TeddyTedson

There's only one sound baby and it's this one who bombs around the place. Although it never uses indicators and swerves in and out of lanes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5s1QNfXGn4

Tordelback

Great thread! I loved the irony of the student (almostnever) complaining about kids making noise on public transport! Is there anything on earth louder than a gaggle of studes OMGing their way through a bus journey?

Intrigued by this notion of there being no point in bringing babies out/on holiday etc. because they won't remember it and don't know what's going on. By this logic do we expect that a baby kept in a featureless room will emerge fully ready to learn about the world at age 3? The first memories we retain long term are formed in the context of all the things we knew at the time but no longer recall - so if a baby has had fun swimming (for example) the first retained memories of swimming the older child has will be of a familiar, fun activity, not something strange and scary.

The stuff we don't remember is the raw material for the stuff we do. For example, I went to a funeral once and met a friend of mine who'd brought his very young daughter (2, I think), who sat quietly throughout. I was amazed, because my lad of the same age, despite being generally well-behaved, had just the previous week fidgeted and whined his way through a long wedding ceremony. The difference was that I'm an atheist and that was the first time that he'd ever sat in a church pew, whereas my friend was a regular church-goer and his daughter had been every week since she was tiny. Patterns and habits of behaviour precede conscious memory.

Anyway, going back to the OP, most parents do try to quiet their child in a cafe/restaurant, and if they can't step outside until they can. The ones that don't bother are probably gits in all other walks of life too.

amdublin

MarkR wrote: »

Wait, are you telling me you never cried?

Well from what I can recall, no.

From before I can recall my parents tell me that they would remove me if I was bothering anyone.

I was a good child. But more importantly my parents were good parents.

Nevyn

Jenroche wrote: »

OP, if you really want an answer to your question you should have posted this on the Parents forum. I'll bring the popcorn.

Don't bother I hear there is a zero troll tolerance policy over there and that one of the mods is a right wagon who'll permabam anyone who posts for the lulz. :pac:

omen80

pickarooney wrote: »

You don't care about their babies, but you do care about their desks?

Yes I care about their desks, well done....now try say something worthwhile