sinclair bipod

zeissman

Hi
I was kooking for some opinions on the sinclair fclass bipod.
I am using a harris swivel with pod-loc at the moment which
I find ok. Has anyone switched from a harris to the sinclair
and if so did you find it better ? is it steadier and did your
shooting improve ?.
I know its a lot bigger than the harris but I would only be
using it for target shooting.

Cass

I bought a Sinclair this time last year and use it on my FTR rifle for long range target work.

The main differences are improved steadiness, better recoil handling, able to stay on target, finer adjustments, and slightly less muzzle flip.

• Improved Steadiness - The weight of the rifle is spread from the forend of the stock out then down to two feet the are "ski" in design. This gives a much steadier firing position than the Harris which comes from the forend stock directly down to two feet that are round and "pointed".
• Better recoil handling - This is down to the two "ski" like feet. They allow the rifle to recoil directly back into the sholulder and slide along the ground a opposed to the Harris that due to its design and feet design recoil downward and "dig into" the ground.
• Ability to stay on target - This is actually an offshoot product from the better recoil handling point. As you are getting good battery from each shot your ability to remain on target improves as the rifle is simply sliding back and forth.
• Muzzle flip - Carrying on from the last point as the rifle does not dig into the ground and comes directly back into you once you work on your grip and hold you will notice an immediate reduction in muzzle flip to a significant reduction with practice. All this means when you fire you can almost immediately regain your original position, and in my case i can see the "splash" of the bullet impact in the backstop.

Drawbacks of the sinclair are twofold.

• They weigh 2.25 pounds making them 1.5 pounds heavier than the Harris so if weight for competition is an issue the Sinclair could put you over.
• The adjustments on the Sinclair are finer than the Harris, but they are more awkward to adjust from your prone firing position. I find myself having to get into a crouched position to adjust the legs, and sometimes rasining the rear of the rifle (stock) to save me the grief of trying to get that "perfect" position.

zeissman

Thanks Ezridax thats the sort of info I was looking for.
Has your shooting improved at all since getting it ?

Cass

Factoring in personal improvement also i'd say yes it has improved my shooting. If from no other point other than to re-assure me when taking a shot. I know the rifle is steady and any misses are up to me.

zeissman

Thanks again
I think I will get one.

zulu_dawn

you should also look at FITO bipods

http://fitoforceproducts.blogspot.com/

zeissman

Those fito bipods look good also
Do you have one Zulo dawn ?
Any idea what the price is ?
The sinclair is 199 dollars plus postage. vat. import duty etc.
Is there anyone in Ireland or the UK selling the sinclair or fito ?

Cass

zeissman wrote: »

Any idea what the price is ?

About £130 or €150. The same as the sinclair $199 (€150). You might save on the shipping from England though as i know Sinclairs have a minimum $40 shipping charge as they go by weight rather than items.

Is there anyone in Ireland or the UK selling the sinclair or fito ?

If anyone else is selling the Sinclair they have bought it from Sinclairs as i think they sell it exclusively. However Osprey Rifles in the UK sell Fito and i think Sinclair aswell but you had better check their website for details.

www.ospreyrifles.com or the fito site - www.fitoforce.com

To be honest the fito is easier to adjust than the Sinclair from a positional point of view. As in you don't have to move to adjust the fito as you do with the Sinclair. They are roughly the same price and the fito is only a quarter of a pound heavier than the Sinclair (if that).

So it would be a personal choice as they are evenly matched.

zeissman

Thanks exridax
I will give ospreyrifles a ring during the week to see what they have .

dCorbus

Ah fame at last!:rolleyes: Check out the Irish lad using the FitoForce BigFoot Bipod on here: http://www.fitoforce.com/

First off: Both the Sinclair FClass and the FitoForce BigFoot bi-pods are excellent. But......if I was to choose one over the other, I'd probably go for the FitoForce.

It is handier to adjust when you're in position, using the turn-screws the foreend can be quite finely adjusted when you're lying down, and the adjustment for cant on an uneven surface is also handy.

The Sinclair is also a great bit of kit - but choosing between the two, I'd personally go for the FitoForce.

That said, aesthetically the BigFoot isn't the prettiest bit of kit and to be honest, could do with some refinement both on the design and aesthetics. But that's just a minor personal niggle of my own which doesn't effect its performance. It's built like a proverbial baked-clay masonry extramural ablutions facility.

On the weight side of things, the FitoForce BigFoot is 1.05kg (2.315 lb) and the Sinclair FClass is 1.0206kg = 2lb4oz (2.25 lb) - so the difference is minimal, although if you're on the raggeddy edge of the F/TR weight limit this may make all the difference.

One other thing, which I'm not 100% clear on from reading the OP's posts, I take it that you're planning to use this bipod for shooting F/TR and from a prone position only? The reason I ask is that a) If you're planning to shoot F-Open, this is not the bipod/frontrest for that particular job; b) These bipods are designed to be used from the prone position and whilst they work from a bench, a proper benchrest front-rest would be a better option.

In "the field", neither of these rests would be what I'd like to use - they're waaaayyyy too heavy, complicated, and tiresome to deploy in a hurry (that's why we have our 3 minutes prep on the firing line - to get our sh1t in order).

At the moment, I'm using a 6-9in non-swivel Harris BR bipod - and getting reasonably ok results with that - I will be upgrading to a better and more solid bipod - but that's after a full 12 months practicing regularly with the Harris - if you can shoot well with the harris, you will get the most out of any improvements in your bipod. But I'd concentrate on trigger time and all the rest of the basics before hoping that the upgraded bipod will up your scores.

Both these bipods are a lot of kit to fork out for, unless you're planning to shoot competitively and even then a harris will do the job for a good long while. If you are planning to target shoot competitively, don't get too hung up on the gear palaver IMO, just get stuck in and you'll find out what kit you do or don't need as your shooting skills improve and you naturally up your own game. If you are already shooting competitively, I apologize for teaching my granny to suck eggs.

zeissman

I am planning to use this bipod on my trg 22.
I have been shooting a long time but have only
got into competitions lately
I am using a harris at the moment and find it ok but wonder
if I would shoot better with the sinclair or fito.
I wouldnt mind buying one to see.
What is the weight limit in ft/r class ?

Cass

As mentioned the bipod will aid in recoil and staying on target and once you realise this you will become more comfortable with your shooting and be less inside your own head. So alot of the improvemnet comes from mental relief (as such).

The weigt limit for FTR shooting is 18.18lbs. Most shooters prefer to top out at 18lbs to allow a small bit of leeway incase one scales at a different range is slightly "out". So if you had either of these bipods you are looking at a max weight for rifle, scope, mounts, rings of 15.5-15.7lbs.

Now you say you use the TRG22. Which scope do you have? The Nightforce is on the heavy end of the scope scales at 2.2lbs so allowing for 2lbs and the 2.3 for the bipod your rifle cannot weigh more than 13.5lbs. I know the TRG with scope, mounts, rings, Harris bipod, etc comes in at 15.5lbs or so. Add to that the 1.75lb difference between the Harris and the other two bipods gives you a total weight of 17 - 17.25lbs max. Nearly a pound under the weight limit.

So you're set. Remember though as dCorbus said these bipods are purely for target work, and will not work (well or easily at least) for hunting/stalking, etc.

zeissman

My scope is a zeiss 6x24x56 and I think it weighs around 29oz
so I will be ok.
I would only be using the trg for target shooting as I have a
nice light sako 85 for my stalking.
Thanks for all the great info lads

Cass

Where do you do your shooting?

If you're a member of the MNSCI i would gladly give you a go of my Sinclair. It'll give you a feel for it and an idea of what the Fito would do.

zeissman

I have only shot a couple of 300 yard competitions at An riocht rifle club in Kerry.
I am not a member of any rifle club yet so I dont know what other competitions if any that I could enter.
I am a member of the NARGC so I have insurance.
Are there any open competitions that I could enter ?

Cass

An Roicht is a good range by all accounts. i haven't actually had the pleasure of shooting there myself, but i would very much like to at some point. I'm judging by your post that this would be the nearest range to you?

If so continue to shoot there, but i would advise you to join as soon as you can. If you prefer the longer range target work then the MNSCI in Tullamore is the one stop shop. Ranges go from 100 - 1,200 yards. A few lads there, myself included, either started with or are currently shooting with TRG and doing extremely well for themselves too.

Once you join a range your membership automatically entitles you to cover from the range by their insurance company. This does not conflict with the NARGC insurance, it actually adds to it.

I haven't had a chance to check up on the competition dates yet so i don't even know myself.

When i do i'll post a copy of them. The trick is trying to organise comps that do not clash with comps from other ranges or organisations.

zeissman

Im a good bit from the range in kerry, its a 550 mile round trip for me.
I heard tullamore was a great range and hopefully I will get down soon
to see it.
I would love to try some target shooting at longer ranges.
What is the effective range of the trg 22 for target shooting ?

Cass

Where in the country are ya? County will do, no need for specifics.

You should definitely take a trip to the Midlands. dCorbus here is using, and very successfully i might add, a TRG. He is constantly holding his own amongst the top shooters and on 1 or 2 occassions shot the highest score.

It is well capable of doing 1,000 yard target work. People will tell you that you are at a disadvantage with a 26" barreled rifle. Not true. Yes a 30" or 32" will make it easier, but by no means are you out of the races before you start. I shot a TRG for year, and learned well on it.

zeissman

Im in donegal.
Its good to know the trg is effective out to 1000 yards
I will make it to the midlands in a few months time.
sure you can let me know when you have the shoot dates
sorted. thanks again.

Cass

Its well able to reach the 1,000 yard mark. The TRG is a 1:12 twist making 155 bullets the best option to run through her. Although she will eat anything you give her these will give you the best results.

You say your scope is a Zeiss. Is it 0.25" click value? You will need about 35MOA or 140 clicks from your 100 yard zero to reach the 1,000 mark. So best to set your scope to your 100 yard zero, and dial the scope up to its last to see if you have the necessary adjustments. If not invest in a 20MOA picatinny rail. This will give you a minimum of 15 MOA (sometimes they are not the full 20MOA), but either way it will give you the extra adjustments needed.

Most of the lads, myself included, were using the HPS 155gr target ammo. It was giving the most consistant and best results. Also at €50 per 50 bullets its the cheapest too. Beats the pants off Lapua Scenar for price and results. Stay away from Hornady, and other hunting based rounds. While they have the same BC as the HPS/Lapua they do not have the same powder and while MV may be the same or close it will not retain that speed after the 600 yard mark.

My last bit of advice is to PM dCorbus and have a good chat with him. He has shot his TRG in the Midlands, An Rocht, Diggle (England), and only recently at the Europeans in Bisley, England. He can tell you the exact ins and outs and even provide you with a drop chart for the 155 bullets which will take some of the work out of shooting and leave you free to concentrate on trigger time.

zeissman

My scopes clicks are 5mm at 100 metres which works out at about 0.18 in at 100 yards. I have my rifle zerod at 100 yards and I have 128 clicks of elevation left which is only about 23 inches so I will need a rail to get me to 1000 yards.
What rails are the guys using on their trgs ? I was looking at the warne and the ones from near engineering which look good but are expensive
I must try the hps ammo. I am using the 155 lapua at the moment and I find it good.
I did print some drop charts for the lapua.
Are all the competitions shot at 1000 or do you have any around 600 ?
My scope as it is would probably take me to 700 or 800 yards .

Cass

zeissman wrote: »

My scopes clicks are 5mm at 100 metres which works out at about 0.18 in at 100 yards.

Not being a smart ass, but are you sure. Most scopes have one of the following, a 1/4 inch click value, 1/8 inch click value or 10mm click value at 100 yards. Is it the Victory FL model. If so it has a 1/4 click value and thats 6mm at 100 yards. Worth checking out.

I have my rifle zerod at 100 yards and I have 128 clicks of elevation left which is only about 23 inches so I will need a rail to get me to 1000 yards

If the scope is 1/4" click value then 128 clicks would be 32 MOA or 32 inches at 100 yards. Unfortunately that will not get you the 1,000 yard mark. So yes a rail will be needed.

What rails are the guys using on their trgs ? I was looking at the warne and the ones from near engineering which look good but are expensive

Warne are a good make, but not as good as the Near. I have near on mine and they are brilliant. Gives you the full MOA listed on the rail. Worth the extra money. Ask dCorbus about his warne rail.

I must try the hps ammo. I am using the 155 lapua at the moment and I find it good.

The Lapua are a good bullet, but make sure you are using the scenar. These are Lapuas target brand. HPS will still out perform them, and are more consistant which is vital.

Are all the competitions shot at 1000 or do you have any around 600 ?

No. Most comps are shot at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards. From 600 - 800 would be classed as medium range, and from 800 - 1,000 long range. Anything under 600 is classed as short range and is not shot as a competition distance. There are club shoots at 500 and 600 from time to time as well as novice and introduction days for new shooters.

My scope as it is would probably take me to 700 or 800 yards .

It would take you to 850 -900 yards with the HPS ammo. So first thing to do is get your rail, rezero and then get shooting.

zeissman

My scope is a victory diavari 6x24x56 and it has 5mm clicks.
You can check it out on the zeiss website if you like.
I seen a set of near rings and bases on another trg up here and they do look fantastic so I think I will hold out for a set of them.
Thanks again for all the advice.
I better get off this laptop cos the missus wants a few things done.

Cass

zeissman wrote: »

My scope is a victory diavari 6x24x56 and it has 5mm clicks.

I checked a couple of sites and they all said 1/4", but i see from the Zeiss webiste it is 5mm per click. So thats good enough for 700 - 800 yards as you said.

Mr.Flibble

zeissman wrote: »

Are all the competitions shot at 1000 or do you have any around 600 ?

Ballykinler only goes out to 600. Given where you are, that might suit.

zeissman

yeah I will take a trip to ballykinler and the midlands when the weather gets a bit warmer. thanks.

dCorbus

Let either myself or ezridax know once you've arranged a visit to Midlands NSCI - I'm sure one or both of us would be around to have a chat and show you around. Feel free to PM if you'd like to get into some details.

AFAIK Ballykinler is only open to civilian shooters when an official competition is on - It's a British Army range and as such access can be arranged but it involves some hoops to jump through.

If you do wish to travel to Ballykinler, make sure you have your NI Visitor Permit and your BA Security Clearance all sorted well in advance of your intended trip.

Bearing that in mind, whilst Ballykinler may be closer to you "as the crow flies", Midland's may be handier to get to and certainly would provide you with more training options with the fullbore and smallbore ranges allowing for shooting from 50 - 1200yds.

In relation to the MOA Rail for the TRG22 - There is only one choice: the Richard Near rail! Do not consider anything else. Richard Near makes really good kit, he's a gent, and the price difference between the Warne and the Near rails is negligable.

DO NOT GET THE WARNE 20MOA RAIL FOR THE TRG

(Sorry for shouting but the Warne rail is the greatest piece of unsuitable, badly designed, shoddily manufactured, and useless not-fit-for-purpose crap I have had the misfortune to waste my money on! Do not touch it with a barge-pole. Save yourself time, money, and hassle and get the Near rail first off - It's the only man for the job!)

Oh and if I haven't made myself clear enough;): The Warne 20MOA rail for the TRG is a hunk of sh1te!

zeissman

It looks like the midlands will be my next port of call so.
I will be sure to let you guys know when I arrange a visit.
I was leaning towards the near rail anyway but you have just convinced me
that its the only one to buy dCorbus.
Did you get the near rings as well or if not what rings do you use or recommend ?
I emailed osprey rifles about the fito and sinclair bipods.
He has both in stock but he recommends the fito big foot for the trg so I think I will get them but still hold onto my harris just in case.

Mr.Flibble

Don't let the security issue put you off Ballykinler; unless you've something genuinely dodgy in your past, the security clearance is a formality.

The main problem with Ballykinler is the limited number of shooting days available, although it is available for more than just competitions. In any case the two competition weekends in themselves are good value. It depends entirely on what your requirements are as to whether it would suit you or not.

Cass

Lads leave the political stuff at the door. There will be no further warnings on the matter.