Rothschilds is Irish government advisor

digme

gizmo wrote: »

Well then by all means give some examples of violence being used in modern times to accomplish positive change within a country. As fas as I can see it's only led to innocent lives being lost, widespread damage to public property yet no change to policy within the affect countries.

Not sure what you mean by modern times,do you mean in the age of the television?Los Angeles riots comes to mind.Tony Benn agrees with what the students in London were doing recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MfbzYh43As

gizmo

digme wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by modern times,do you mean in the age of the television?Los Angeles riots comes to mind.Tony Benn agrees with what the students in London were doing recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MfbzYh43As

The LA Riots of 92? You think the deaths of 53 people and damage to public property totalling over $1b was worth having 4 cops re-trialled with only two of them being convicted and sentenced to less than 3 years in prison? That's a prime example of how turning to violence almost immediately is a bad idea.

Interesting interview with Tony Benn all right however I think you can look at what he's saying from two very different perspectives. The initial question he was asked was did he support the people going out to protest, even if it's sometimes in "quite a violent and destructive way" to which he answered he very strongly supported it, do note that he never specifies the violent part though.

However, he then goes on to explain how he's getting involved himself and he says "to bring people together, solidarity...till the thing becomes a very very powerful political movement for justice and once that happens governments have to listen". No mention of organising violent rioting or protests whatsoever though.

Brown Bomber

gizmo wrote: »

Well then by all means give some examples of violence being used in modern times to accomplish positive change within a country. As fas as I can see it's only led to innocent lives being lost, widespread damage to public property yet no change to policy within the affect countries.

Cuba.

Do you deny the use of violence at all costs?

What if it is to eradicate a greater evil?

digme

Gizmo I'm not trying to change your mind if you think that's why I'm chatting with you.Zig zag your way around tony benns interview.
I know violence solves things.

gizmo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Cuba.

Do you deny the use of violence at all costs?

What if it is to eradicate a greater evil?

A popular uprising against an oppressive regime isn't the kind of violence I'm decrying here BB. So in the case of Cuba, I'm not really sure it counts, assuming you're referring to the Cuban Revolution that is?

Which I assume answers your other points, no of course I'm not against it completely. As I've said above however, there is a monumental difference between non-popular violent protests against a diplomatically elected government and a popular movement aimed at enacting real social change within a country.

digme wrote: »

Gizmo I'm not trying to change your mind if you think that's why I'm chatting with you.Zig zag your way around tony benns interview.
I know violence solves things.

Then you should be able to give us an example of where it has rather than dismissing the examples given to you of where it has led to cycles of bloodshed and unnecessary casualties.

digme

gizmo wrote: »

Then you should be able to give us an example of where it has rather than dismissing the examples given to you of where it has led to cycles of bloodshed and unnecessary casualties.

life experience and common sense dictates to me where it has prevailed.If you go swimming expect to get wet.I'm not searching google to prove a point,do it yourself, I'm sure you'll find plenty.

gizmo

digme wrote: »

life experience and common sense dictates to me where it has prevailed.If you go swimming expect to get wet.I'm not searching google to prove a point,do it yourself, I'm sure you'll find plenty.

I'm not referring to small personal disputes, I'm referring to large scale violence directed at ones democratically elected government which is the entire point of all this. Recent history has shown this to be a very bad idea and I was curious to see if those who condone it had any positive examples they could give. As you said there's little point in attempting to change people's minds however if people are going to support it they may as well explain what they hope to achieve by it and whether or not they're ready to accept the consequences of it.

Torakx

Do you include the irish rising against "their" government too?
Most consider that to have been effective especially since the british were fighting a war on many fronts.Are we supposed to be proud of that as a nation or ashamed i wonder.Maybe confused is prefereable.
While i would love if mimicing Ghandi and peacefully protesting worked here, i dont see it making as much difference as the opposite form of protest.
I wish it did but cant see how that would work.
Might aswell give peaceful obedient protesters a spot out of the way in the corner of the country to peacefully protest in a quiet field.

Maybe your right and a peaceful protest would throw the Rothchilds out of the country and sort everything out.I just wont be holding my breath.
The last few protests over student fees didnt go so well iirc.Some students even getting injured and beaten for sitting down.
Being peacefull means you cant stop them grabbing you and moving you out of the way, so it stays off the news longer and the issues dies down.
A violent protest will be remembered unfortunatly and alot harder to sweep it under the carpet once it gets going.
I dont like violence but i appreciate the idea that the house needs a good cleaning.
Much like in hot countries when they burn up all the dead waste so a bigger fire doesnt wipe the whole place out and everyone else with it.
Thats how i see a proper protest.Do what you came for imo.Not half a job.
Its also why i dont sit on the street in protest.I realise a half assed job is only going to end with me being moved by a horse or baton.

gizmo

Torakx wrote: »

Do you include the irish rising against "their" government too?
Most consider that to have been effective especially since the british were fighting a war on many fronts.Are we supposed to be proud of that as a nation or ashamed i wonder.Maybe confused is prefereable.
While i would love if mimicing Ghandi and peacefully protesting worked here, i dont see it making as much difference as the opposite form of protest.
I wish it did but cant see how that would work.
Might aswell give peaceful obedient protesters a spot out of the way in the corner of the country to peacefully protest in a quiet field.

Nope, as I said above I'm not including popular uprisings in this, I'm specifically referring to violence perpetrated by a small group of society without the backing of the majority or indeed anything approaching it.

Torakx wrote: »

Maybe your right and a peaceful protest would throw the Rothchilds out of the country and sort everything out.I just wont be holding my breath.
The last few protests over student fees didnt go so well iirc.Some students even getting injured and beaten for sitting down.

And a lot of "students" were attacking the Gardai and damaging property. While it's extremely regrettable that innocent people got caught in the crossfire the ones primarily to blame are the minority who initiated the violence in the first place. The UK protests were a better example as the level of violence there far eclipsed what was seen here.

Torakx wrote: »

Being peacefull means you cant stop them grabbing you and moving you out of the way, so it stays off the news longer and the issues dies down.
A violent protest will be remembered unfortunatly and alot harder to sweep it under the carpet once it gets going.
I dont like violence but i appreciate the idea that the house needs a good cleaning.
Much like in hot countries when they burn up all the dead waste so a bigger fire doesnt wipe the whole place out and everyone else with it.
Thats how i see a proper protest.Do what you came for imo.Not half a job.
Its also why i dont sit on the street in protest.I realise a half assed job is only going to end with me being moved by a horse or baton.

Proper peaceful protesters who are violently dealt with/moved by the cops and caught on camera will create a far more lasting impression than cops having to deal with violent protesters which the media can then use to explain away such action. Look at the reaction to the Tiananmen Square protests as a prime example of this.

profitius

I forgot to post this:

Rothschild replaces Merrill as Irish government adviser
Thu, 03/09/2009 - 11:06 — admin-b
Reuters article by By Victoria Howley

LONDON, Sept 1 (Reuters) - The Irish government has appointed investment bank Rothschild to advise on the restructuring of the country’s banking sector, a source close to the firm said on Tuesday.

“We will advise the Department of Finance on how to shape the banking system going forward, including the establishment of the National Asset Management Agency [NAMA] and any possible consolidation in the sector,” the source said.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch (BAC.N) was hired to advise the government in September, although that contract expired in the summer and was put out to tender in July, a spokesman for the Department of Finance said.

The spokesman confirmed Rothschild’s new role.

Rothschild will also advise on dealings with the European Commission and recommend how relationships with lenders participating in the “bad bank” scheme should be managed, according to a tender document posted on Ireland’s public procurement website.

Dublin plans to take over risky property loans with a book value of up to 90 billion euros ($129.2 billion) from Allied Irish Banks (ALBK.I), Bank of Ireland (BKIR.I) and other lenders and park them in a National Asset Management Agency, or bad bank, to free up the flow of credit.

Government bonds issued in return for the assets will boost Ireland’s national debt by 60 billion euros, according to the median forecast of 6 economists in a Reuters poll on Tuesday, compared with a national debt level of 67 billion euros at the end of July.