Rothschilds is Irish government advisor

profitius

I read it in the Sunday Times the other day. And they wonder why Irish people are getting robbed by the super rich as well as losing sovereignty. You couldn't make it up! :rolleyes:

humanji

It was the previous group that recommended the bailout and sent us downt the road we're on.

gizmo

On top of which, who do you think the government should seek advice from?

Kippure

Our presidant did meet one of them in the RDS recently....

http://wn.com/Ireland's_Treasonous_President_McAleese_meets_with_War_Criminal_Rockefeller

Phill Ewinn

Confirms my views about El Presidente.

Torakx

Same people that fooked greece over.Its laughable.
Watching the news about that last year i felt i was watching one of those predictable tv shows or something(as i watched a rothchild walk his way into an irish building on the news).Hard to believe its can be so blatant and still the average people cant stop them.Our gov is out of control imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCe80hsx-ig

Also last year around that time i did some searching for the bilderberg meetings and the one they had in greece i think in 2005 or so was hosted by the bank of greece to discuss the countries finance as well as global dealings.

squod

Torakx wrote: »

.Our gov is out of control imo.

Can't just blame our government anymore. Anyone in a whole chain of people could have done something about this. Regulators, opposition TD's, guards, civil servants etc.......

Realistically, the time for talk and protest is over.

gizmo

squod wrote: »

Can't just blame our government anymore. Anyone in a whole chain of people could have done something about this. Regulators, opposition TD's, guards, civil servants etc.......

Realistically, the time for talk and protest is over.

I can only hope you're not back to the uprising ****e talk because whatever about our current situation, having pictures like the one below published internationally would do wonders for the country.

profitius

gizmo wrote: »

I can only hope you're not back to the uprising ****e talk because whatever about our current situation, having pictures like the one below published internationally would do wonders for the country.

An uprising done the French no harm. Interestingly Gerald Celente recently said it might be worth while having shares in guillotines!

gizmo

profitius wrote: »

An uprising done the French no harm. Interestingly Gerald Celente recently said it might be worth while having shares in guillotines!

I'd like to think we've come a long way since the end of the 18th century to be honest, never mind the fact they replaced the absolute monarchy with, you guessed it, a democratic republic!

squod

gizmo wrote: »

having pictures like the one below published internationally would do wonders for the country.

Being the laughing stock of the world is doing us the fuhken world of good :rolleyes:

gizmo

squod wrote: »

Being the laughing stock of the world is doing us the fuhken world of good :rolleyes:

But we're not the laughing stock of the world, in fact we're not even the laughing stock within the PIIGS members.

squod

gizmo wrote: »

But we're not the laughing stock of the world, in fact we're not even the laughing stock within the PIIGS members.

Where's the facepalm emoticon?

gizmo

squod wrote: »

Where's the facepalm emoticon?

Which country borrowed the most money from the EU/IMF for bailout purposes?
Which country hasn't seen positive export growth in the last number of months?
Which country has had its police force firing tear gas into crowds of anti-austerity protesters?
Which country has had the deaths of three innocent bank workers because of violent "protesters" throwing Molotov cocktails into bank buildings?
Which country has had members of its population physically assaulting their politicians?

I'll give you a hint, it's not Ireland.

squod

Which country is it whose population is getting robbed by their own government so they can pay off the private debts of professional gamblers?

gizmo

squod wrote: »

Which country is it whose population is getting robbed by their own government so they can pay off the private debts of professional gamblers?

Hyperbolic wording to say the least but I'm guessing you want me to say Ireland here. While it is true I think it's quote obvious the points above make Greece out to be in far worse shape than Ireland.

squod

Greece were allegedly cooking their books to try benefit from Europe. Irish government have been cooking theirs to defraud the citizen. How many people are laughing at Greece vs laughing at Ireland do you guesstimate?

gizmo

squod wrote: »

Greece were allegedly cooking their books to try benefit from Europe. Irish government have been cooking theirs to defraud the citizen. How many people are laughing at Greece vs laughing at Ireland do you guesstimate?

Actually it was Goldman Sachs who convinced the Greek government to cook their books in order to hide their true deficit from the ECB. In our case we had a bunch of banks doing it to their own books and then blatantly lying about it which has backfired. The difference being the level of complicity in these affairs by the respective governments.

Well I'm assuming you don't want actual numbers in my guess but as I said above, Greece are in far worse off shape than us, will have a far tougher time getting out of the situation their in and have made a far worse impression internationally following the events I outlined above and as such, are the real laughing stock, if that's the term you want to use.

Torakx

At least the greeks are kicking up a fuss.
The flouridated irish are still scratching their heads.
To me we are looking pretty stupid.
Not only did we get ourselves into this mess but we also accepted advice from the same kind of people that were involved with the greek crisis, which i suspect was planned back in 2005 or so at a bilderberg meeting or some contacts at that meeting hosted by the bank of greece.
Only fools would let those wolves into our country,yet here we are still doing it and who is going to stop them? Certainly not you or me.
It will get worse in a few years and maybe then people will have no choice but to protest violently.

todolist

Kippure wrote: »

Our presidant did meet one of them in the RDS recently....

http://wn.com/Ireland's_Treasonous_President_McAleese_meets_with_War_Criminal_Rockefeller

She's not "Our President", she wasn't elected for a second term.She's the ultimate token nordy nationalist the Fianna Failers love.As usual it's the tax payers who pay the bill for this nonsense.

gizmo

Torakx wrote: »

At least the greeks are kicking up a fuss.
The flouridated irish are still scratching their heads.
To me we are looking pretty stupid.

As you may have guessed, I disagree profusely with this. The violence that has occurred in Greece should not be condoned under any circumstances. People died and many more were injured and all for what? Nothing changed. The austerity measures were still passed and the country is now on the rather long road to recovery.

Torakx wrote: »

Not only did we get ourselves into this mess but we also accepted advice from the same kind of people that were involved with the greek crisis, which i suspect was planned back in 2005 or so at a bilderberg meeting or some contacts at that meeting hosted by the bank of greece.

The first part is of course a complete head scratcher but then again, advice needs to be sought from somewhere I guess. :S

As for the Bilderberg reference, there was no real planning required. Goldman Sachs provided the catastrophic advice to them which resulted in them hiding their true deficit problem and when the debt crisis occurred they got hammered for it.

Torakx wrote: »

Only fools would let those wolves into our country,yet here we are still doing it and who is going to stop them? Certainly not you or me.
It will get worse in a few years and maybe then people will have no choice but to protest violently.

Stop who? The IMF? I'd advise looking back into the IMF interventions in the UK in the 70s and then look at them now. Such intervention does not always spell doom for a country contrary to some belief.

todolist wrote: »

She's not "Our President", she wasn't elected for a second term.She's the ultimate token nordy nationalist the Fianna Failers love.As usual it's the tax payers who pay the bill for this nonsense.

Actually yes she is, winning an election uncontested is still winning it plus she ran with no party affiliation the second time around.

Torakx

I do agree violence is not the best way for a solution to come about.But it seems democracy doesnt work.Im open to other ideas too though.A new political party that somehow is impenetrable from being mislead again like all the rest through history.

digme

Violence solves a lot of things when the people you elect don't speak for you any longer.

Brown Bomber

gizmo wrote: »

I can only hope you're not back to the uprising ****e talk because whatever about our current situation, having pictures like the one below published internationally would do wonders for the country.

He has more than his own blood on his hands. The suicide rate in Greece has trebled since the criminals made their move. He has a dry cleaning bill while there is fatherless children in Greece this Christmas and the elderly living on the streets.

gizmo

Torakx wrote: »

I do agree violence is not the best way for a solution to come about.But it seems democracy doesnt work.Im open to other ideas too though.A new political party that somehow is impenetrable from being mislead again like all the rest through history.

Of course democracy works, do you think FF will still be in government after the next election? Hell the fact that they're not even going to finish their term shows that it works.

As for a new political party being impenetrable to such flaws, well therein lies the problem. The one common trait they've always had is that they're composed of ordinary people and that is their greatest weakness in terms of their susceptibility to corruption, no matter how slight it may seem.

digme wrote: »

Violence solves a lot of things when the people you elect don't speak for you any longer.

Most of the African continent would probably disagree with you on that one.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

He has more than his own blood on his hands. The suicide rate in Greece has trebled since the criminals made their move. He has a dry cleaning bill while there is fatherless children in Greece this Christmas and the elderly living on the streets.

You realise that guy in particular isn't actually to blame for the mess the Greeks are in and that he was just the one which the protesters managed to get their hands on?

Brown Bomber

gizmo wrote: »

As you may have guessed, I disagree profusely with this. The violence that has occurred in Greece should not be condoned under any circumstances. People died and many more were injured and all for what? Nothing changed. The austerity measures were still passed and the country is now on the rather long road to recovery.

Not strictly true. The (rioting) Greek interest rate on their IMF loan is less than the (non-rioting) Irish rate.

Both are unsustainable.

gizmo wrote: »

As for the Bilderberg reference, there was no real planning required. Goldman Sachs provided the catastrophic advice to them which resulted in them hiding their true deficit problem and when the debt crisis occurred they got hammered for it.

Well it was Goldman Sachs who hid Greece's financial woes through instruments designed to implode. Goldman Sachs then bet against Greece as they were injecting their poison into the Greek economy making a huge profit.

This takes planning.

And we then hire Goldman Sachs as advisers?

And then Rothschild?




Both of whom were Ango shareholders!

gizmo wrote: »

Stop who? The IMF? I'd advise looking back into the IMF interventions in the UK in the 70s and then look at them now. Such intervention does not always spell doom for a country contrary to some belief.

I did look into it very briefly as I never heard of it before.

It seems it was a single intervention and the IMF loan was never fully drawn and was based on strengthening value of the pound.


Not a good comparison imo. A far better one would be Malaysia who refused IMF "assistance" in the 90's in the Asian crisis and fared better than all their neighbours who took IMF loans.

gizmo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Not strictly true. The (rioting) Greek interest rate on their IMF loan is less than the (non-rioting) Irish rate.

Both are unsustainable.

Not quite correct, the Greek deal is over 3 years whereas ours is over 7 years. This is what led the Greeks to regard our deal as better and seek to amend theirs.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Well it was Goldman Sachs who hid Greece's financial woes through instruments designed to implode. Goldman Sachs then bet against Greece as they were injecting their poison into the Greek economy making a huge profit.

This takes planning.

Indeed, planning by Goldman Sachs though.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And we then hire Goldman Sachs as advisers?

And then Rothschild?

As I've asked before, who else would we hire for advice? That's not me defending them in the slightest, I'm simply pointing out the reality of the situation. Countries need advice from external advisers in these matters, said must be gotten from somewhere so if you rule out GS and Rothschild, who do you turn to?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

...Bondholders list...

Both of whom were Ango shareholders!

Also true however they were bondholders because there was money to be made.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I did look into it very briefly as I never heard of it before.

It seems it was a single intervention and the IMF loan was never fully drawn and was based on strengthening value of the pound.

Not a good comparison imo. A far better one would be Malaysia who refused IMF "assistance" in the 90's in the Asian crisis and fared better than all their neighbours who took IMF loans.

Well I'd disagree on the basis that, in terms of our economies (make-up that is, not size) ours would be more similar to Britains than Malaysias.

As for the necessity in drawing down all the funds, you'd be correct in this case, Britain did not need to draw down the full £2.4b the IMF had agreed to loan them however this was only because the economy began to recover with the sterling appreciating in value quicker than anticipated. What is to stop our own economy from doing the same? Especially in the light of the recent industrial and export-led growth?

digme

gizmo wrote: »

Most of the African continent would probably disagree with you on that one.

I don't understand this statement.

gizmo

digme wrote: »

I don't understand this statement.

You said...

digme wrote: »

Violence solves a lot of things when the people you elect don't speak for you any longer.

And I'm using the large number of African nations who have been involved in bitter civil wars and violence for the past number of decades because one group doesn't think their elected representatives are speaking for them as an example why this is incorrect.

You also have the Greek situation where, as I pointed out above, despite the violent protests and deaths of the innocent civilians, they accomplished nothing.

digme

gizmo wrote: »

You said...


And I'm using the large number of African nations who have been involved in bitter civil wars and violence for the past number of decades because one group doesn't think their elected representatives are speaking for them as an example why this is incorrect.

You also have the Greek situation where, as I pointed out above, despite the violent protests and deaths of the innocent civilians, they accomplished nothing.

I won't even bother with your use of the continent that is Africa, as it's bloody ridiculous.The Greeks protesting with force is not toppling their government as there isn't enough of them protesting.It's manageable for the riot police that is all,nothing more.

gizmo

digme wrote: »

I won't even bother with your use of the continent that is Africa, as it's bloody ridiculous.The Greeks protesting with force is not toppling their government as there isn't enough of them protesting.It's manageable for the riot police that is all,nothing more.

Well then by all means give some examples of violence being used in modern times to accomplish positive change within a country. As fas as I can see it's only led to innocent lives being lost, widespread damage to public property yet no change to policy within the affect countries.

digme

gizmo wrote: »

Well then by all means give some examples of violence being used in modern times to accomplish positive change within a country. As fas as I can see it's only led to innocent lives being lost, widespread damage to public property yet no change to policy within the affect countries.

Not sure what you mean by modern times,do you mean in the age of the television?Los Angeles riots comes to mind.Tony Benn agrees with what the students in London were doing recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MfbzYh43As

gizmo

digme wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by modern times,do you mean in the age of the television?Los Angeles riots comes to mind.Tony Benn agrees with what the students in London were doing recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MfbzYh43As

The LA Riots of 92? You think the deaths of 53 people and damage to public property totalling over $1b was worth having 4 cops re-trialled with only two of them being convicted and sentenced to less than 3 years in prison? That's a prime example of how turning to violence almost immediately is a bad idea.

Interesting interview with Tony Benn all right however I think you can look at what he's saying from two very different perspectives. The initial question he was asked was did he support the people going out to protest, even if it's sometimes in "quite a violent and destructive way" to which he answered he very strongly supported it, do note that he never specifies the violent part though.

However, he then goes on to explain how he's getting involved himself and he says "to bring people together, solidarity...till the thing becomes a very very powerful political movement for justice and once that happens governments have to listen". No mention of organising violent rioting or protests whatsoever though.

Brown Bomber

gizmo wrote: »

Well then by all means give some examples of violence being used in modern times to accomplish positive change within a country. As fas as I can see it's only led to innocent lives being lost, widespread damage to public property yet no change to policy within the affect countries.

Cuba.

Do you deny the use of violence at all costs?

What if it is to eradicate a greater evil?

digme

Gizmo I'm not trying to change your mind if you think that's why I'm chatting with you.Zig zag your way around tony benns interview.
I know violence solves things.

gizmo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Cuba.

Do you deny the use of violence at all costs?

What if it is to eradicate a greater evil?

A popular uprising against an oppressive regime isn't the kind of violence I'm decrying here BB. So in the case of Cuba, I'm not really sure it counts, assuming you're referring to the Cuban Revolution that is?

Which I assume answers your other points, no of course I'm not against it completely. As I've said above however, there is a monumental difference between non-popular violent protests against a diplomatically elected government and a popular movement aimed at enacting real social change within a country.

digme wrote: »

Gizmo I'm not trying to change your mind if you think that's why I'm chatting with you.Zig zag your way around tony benns interview.
I know violence solves things.

Then you should be able to give us an example of where it has rather than dismissing the examples given to you of where it has led to cycles of bloodshed and unnecessary casualties.

digme

gizmo wrote: »

Then you should be able to give us an example of where it has rather than dismissing the examples given to you of where it has led to cycles of bloodshed and unnecessary casualties.

life experience and common sense dictates to me where it has prevailed.If you go swimming expect to get wet.I'm not searching google to prove a point,do it yourself, I'm sure you'll find plenty.

gizmo

digme wrote: »

life experience and common sense dictates to me where it has prevailed.If you go swimming expect to get wet.I'm not searching google to prove a point,do it yourself, I'm sure you'll find plenty.

I'm not referring to small personal disputes, I'm referring to large scale violence directed at ones democratically elected government which is the entire point of all this. Recent history has shown this to be a very bad idea and I was curious to see if those who condone it had any positive examples they could give. As you said there's little point in attempting to change people's minds however if people are going to support it they may as well explain what they hope to achieve by it and whether or not they're ready to accept the consequences of it.

Torakx

Do you include the irish rising against "their" government too?
Most consider that to have been effective especially since the british were fighting a war on many fronts.Are we supposed to be proud of that as a nation or ashamed i wonder.Maybe confused is prefereable.
While i would love if mimicing Ghandi and peacefully protesting worked here, i dont see it making as much difference as the opposite form of protest.
I wish it did but cant see how that would work.
Might aswell give peaceful obedient protesters a spot out of the way in the corner of the country to peacefully protest in a quiet field.

Maybe your right and a peaceful protest would throw the Rothchilds out of the country and sort everything out.I just wont be holding my breath.
The last few protests over student fees didnt go so well iirc.Some students even getting injured and beaten for sitting down.
Being peacefull means you cant stop them grabbing you and moving you out of the way, so it stays off the news longer and the issues dies down.
A violent protest will be remembered unfortunatly and alot harder to sweep it under the carpet once it gets going.
I dont like violence but i appreciate the idea that the house needs a good cleaning.
Much like in hot countries when they burn up all the dead waste so a bigger fire doesnt wipe the whole place out and everyone else with it.
Thats how i see a proper protest.Do what you came for imo.Not half a job.
Its also why i dont sit on the street in protest.I realise a half assed job is only going to end with me being moved by a horse or baton.

gizmo

Torakx wrote: »

Do you include the irish rising against "their" government too?
Most consider that to have been effective especially since the british were fighting a war on many fronts.Are we supposed to be proud of that as a nation or ashamed i wonder.Maybe confused is prefereable.
While i would love if mimicing Ghandi and peacefully protesting worked here, i dont see it making as much difference as the opposite form of protest.
I wish it did but cant see how that would work.
Might aswell give peaceful obedient protesters a spot out of the way in the corner of the country to peacefully protest in a quiet field.

Nope, as I said above I'm not including popular uprisings in this, I'm specifically referring to violence perpetrated by a small group of society without the backing of the majority or indeed anything approaching it.

Torakx wrote: »

Maybe your right and a peaceful protest would throw the Rothchilds out of the country and sort everything out.I just wont be holding my breath.
The last few protests over student fees didnt go so well iirc.Some students even getting injured and beaten for sitting down.

And a lot of "students" were attacking the Gardai and damaging property. While it's extremely regrettable that innocent people got caught in the crossfire the ones primarily to blame are the minority who initiated the violence in the first place. The UK protests were a better example as the level of violence there far eclipsed what was seen here.

Torakx wrote: »

Being peacefull means you cant stop them grabbing you and moving you out of the way, so it stays off the news longer and the issues dies down.
A violent protest will be remembered unfortunatly and alot harder to sweep it under the carpet once it gets going.
I dont like violence but i appreciate the idea that the house needs a good cleaning.
Much like in hot countries when they burn up all the dead waste so a bigger fire doesnt wipe the whole place out and everyone else with it.
Thats how i see a proper protest.Do what you came for imo.Not half a job.
Its also why i dont sit on the street in protest.I realise a half assed job is only going to end with me being moved by a horse or baton.

Proper peaceful protesters who are violently dealt with/moved by the cops and caught on camera will create a far more lasting impression than cops having to deal with violent protesters which the media can then use to explain away such action. Look at the reaction to the Tiananmen Square protests as a prime example of this.

profitius

I forgot to post this:

Rothschild replaces Merrill as Irish government adviser
Thu, 03/09/2009 - 11:06 — admin-b
Reuters article by By Victoria Howley

LONDON, Sept 1 (Reuters) - The Irish government has appointed investment bank Rothschild to advise on the restructuring of the country’s banking sector, a source close to the firm said on Tuesday.

“We will advise the Department of Finance on how to shape the banking system going forward, including the establishment of the National Asset Management Agency [NAMA] and any possible consolidation in the sector,” the source said.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch (BAC.N) was hired to advise the government in September, although that contract expired in the summer and was put out to tender in July, a spokesman for the Department of Finance said.

The spokesman confirmed Rothschild’s new role.

Rothschild will also advise on dealings with the European Commission and recommend how relationships with lenders participating in the “bad bank” scheme should be managed, according to a tender document posted on Ireland’s public procurement website.

Dublin plans to take over risky property loans with a book value of up to 90 billion euros ($129.2 billion) from Allied Irish Banks (ALBK.I), Bank of Ireland (BKIR.I) and other lenders and park them in a National Asset Management Agency, or bad bank, to free up the flow of credit.

Government bonds issued in return for the assets will boost Ireland’s national debt by 60 billion euros, according to the median forecast of 6 economists in a Reuters poll on Tuesday, compared with a national debt level of 67 billion euros at the end of July.