MVP

themont85

Brady
or
Vick

Well Brady as MVP looked a done deal until last night. Vick anchored a comeback in a style no other QB could match. Brady has been sensational and somehow not been picked in a while but will Vick pip him to the post?

kryogen

Brady still in front id bet, i think Matt Cassel should get a mention this season.

Syferus

Brady probably, but Vick has established himself enough this year that few eyebrows or objections will be raised next year if he preforms similarily and wins the MVP.

Pyjamarama

Right now Brady but if Vick can out perform him over the next two weeks he'll have to get a mention...

The next two in line for me would be MJD and Rivers who have both been amazing imo.

Peyton Manning

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Right now Brady but if Vick can out perform him over the next two weeks he'll have to get a mention...

The next two in line for me would be MJD and Rivers who have both been amazing imo.

Arian Foster has been far more impressive than Jones-Drew from an MVP perspective.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Arian Foster has been far more impressive than Jones-Drew from an MVP perspective.

What about Jamaal Charles? He has been head and shoulders above anybody else this year. Darren McFadden too.

Pyjamarama

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Arian Foster has been far more impressive than Jones-Drew from an MVP perspective.

I disagree. From an offensive player of the year stand point he certainly has been but he has Andre Johnson keeping defenses honest. MVP isn't best player, it's most important and i don't really see how anyone could argue that MJD hasn't been more important to the Jags than Foster has for the Texans.

Pyjamarama

eagle eye wrote: »

What about Jamaal Charles? He has been head and shoulders above anybody else this year. Darren McFadden too.

McFadden has missed too much time for me and ther Raiders haven't really been in contention imo which is relevant.

Charles is a better shout and i'm a huge fan (have him in my 3 fantasy leagues) but I think the Chiefs could win without him but they wouldn't have a shot without Cassel (who i don't rate that highly as a qb but he does a good job in that scheme).

Both are good shouts for OPotY tho. Especially Charles.

kryogen

Chiefs dont work without Cassel, he has be the MVP on that team without doubt

Rivers has been outstanding again

Brady is the man

Justin10

I thouhgt MVP means play who played above all othes for the regular season?? If that is the case why is Rivers name not being mentioned?
New England and Chargers have same amount of Rushing yards per game. Yet Philip is second highest Quarterback in yards and tds, with 16 different receivers with his two main receivers missing alot of the season and Vjax missing nearly whole season. Brady only has 3500 yards 600 behind Rivers.

Is MVP who preforms best for couple games in the middle the season???
Dont get me wrong I think Vick and Brady have had good seasons but so has Rivers.

Prefab Sprouter

I'd also say (though I hate admitting it) that Rivers deserves to be considered. He's been amazing.

As regards McFadden, well he has missed a bit of time but never underestimate his contribution to making the Raiders a semi-respectable team again - thats some achievement in itself!

Peyton Manning

Rivers deserves to be considered, but the fact of the matter is that when it comes to Brady vs Rivers, all the relevant stats are taken into consideration in the calculation of their passer ratings, and over the course of the season Brady's is higher than River's (109.9 vs 105.7).

Strength of schedule should also be considered, and the Charger's schedule was a hell of a lot more passer friendly than the Patriots, so for Brady to get a higher passer rating against the calibre of opponents he's faced is what has him as clear favourite in many people's books.

Justin10

The passer rating is nearly the exact same. The difference is the int. With Rivers chasing games with the huge mistakes from Chargers ST. They have same complition percentage with river couple of completions more.

Crazy stuff.

Pyjamarama

MVP shouldn't be about stats. It's the most important player in the NFL. And that is Tom Brady right now. And tbh it will be when the voting ends. The only guy with a real shot apart from him would be Vick and for him to do it he'd have to win the superbowl. Both players have taken teams expected to be in transition to the playoffs and both are potential superbowl teams.

Rivers has been excellent but the Chargers haven't won enough games for me. Thats not his fault as a player but it has to be a consideration when discussing MVP. And it's what keeps him below Brady and Vick.

Dodge

Brady's had a few stinkers this year (eg Cleveland) so its not a done deal at all IMO.

It'll boil down a contest between Brady's nice guy popularity and Vick's redemption story

What I think will happen is that Brady will get MVP and Vick will get Offensive POTY

Stev_o

Vick for me some of his performances this year have been truly amazing while Brady is having a near perfect season i think he's gotten a easy ride for the most part. The only time he was under genuine pressure was the GB game and had GB had Rogers they probably would of lost that game.

frostie500

Dodge wrote: »

Brady's had a few stinkers this year (eg Cleveland) so its not a done deal at all IMO.

It'll boil down a contest between Brady's nice guy popularity and Vick's redemption story

What I think will happen is that Brady will get MVP and Vick will get Offensive POTY

It's far from a done deal but the one thing that could hold Vick back is that he has missed four games this year. I was looking at what I would consider the main stats for determining the MVP and Vick actually has an edge in most categories. Below is a table showing the comparisons of each player. It's worth bearing in mind the difference offensive systems that both play in-Brady is playing with a tightend heavy scheme this season whereas Vick has the most explosive playmakers in the game around him.



As I said the main thing that will hold Vick back is the fact he missed four games, even with that though he has almost as many total TDs and yards as Brady. Both players are having tremendous seasons and are proving to be very productive and not turning the ball over very often. Both of these players are very deserving of the MVP, as things stand today, but Vick will need to finish strong if he is to take the award.

Personally, even as an Eagles fan, I would hate if Vick's "redemption" is taken into account. Players like Brady deserve better than to have the fact that they didnt break the law and go to jail to be held against them

In relation to offensive player of the year I am not sure that Vick deserves to win it. Even just looking at the Eagles team I would say that DeSeasn Jackson would be more deserving. If you look at his season it is one for the ages, 45 receptions for 1000 yards giving him an average of almost 23 yards per catch and eight receptions of over 40 yards, add in a rushing and return TD and its pretty clear that his season is quite remarkable.

frostie500

Stev_o wrote: »

Vick for me some of his performances this year have been truly amazing while Brady is having a near perfect season i think he's gotten a easy ride for the most part. The only time he was under genuine pressure was the GB game and had GB had Rogers they probably would of lost that game.

I was reading this earlier and while it's an article about Brady v Manning the section below is relevant to Brady's current season and his performances.

The most impressive aspect of Brady's MVP-caliber effort this year is that he's producing monster stats and huge point totals against an absolute murderer's row of defenses.
Seven of Brady's 14 games this year were played against the six stingiest scoring defenses in football (Co-No. 1s Green Bay and Pittsburgh, No. 3 Chicago, No. 4 Baltimore, No. 5 N.Y. Jets (twice) and No. 6 San Diego).
Brady and the Patriots shredded almost all of them. They scored:
• 31 points against Green Bay Sunday night, the most any team has scored this year against the league's stingiest defense (15.7 PPG)
• 39 against Pittsburgh, the most any team has ever scored in a regular-season game at Heinz Field
• 33 points in the first half alone against Chicago; the Bears have not surrendered more than 26 total points in any other game this year.
• 45 points in their second meeting against the Jets; the team has otherwise not given up more than 31 points in a game in two years under Rex Ryan.
From the perspective of individual production, those same six teams all rank in the top 10 in Defensive Passer Rating, a Cold, Hard Football Facts "Quality Stat" and the most effective measure of each team's pass defense. It merely takes the formula used to rate quarterbacks and applies it to pass defenses.
• The Packers are No. 1 in DPR (70.32). Brady posted a 110.2 rating against them with 2 TD and 0 INT.
• The Chargers are No. 2 in DPR (72.46). Brady posted an 82.7 rating against them, with 1 TD and 0 INT.
• The Bears are No. 3 in DPR (73.00). Brady posted a 113.4 rating against them, with 2 TD and 0 INT.
• The Steelers No. 6 in DPR (78.16). Brady posted a 117.4 rating against them, with 3 TD and 0 INT.
• The Ravens are No. 7 in DPR (78.20). Brady posted a 69.5 rating against them (lowest of the year), with 1 TD and 2 INT (his last INTs of the season).
• The Jets are No. 10 in DPR (79.94). Brady posted a 148.9 rating in his most recent game against them, with 4 TD and 0 INT.
In other words, Brady has played half his schedule against defenses that have shut down every other quarterback and every other offense they've faced this year.

Hazys

Stev_o wrote: »

Vick for me some of his performances this year have been truly amazing while Brady is having a near perfect season i think he's gotten a easy ride for the most part. The only time he was under genuine pressure was the GB game and had GB had Rogers they probably would of lost that game.

lol

Stev_o

Hazys wrote: »

lol

Some great contribution there :rolleyes:

How many sacks has Brady received in the lead up to the Packers game? Suddenly Pats were going 3 and out after 3 and long.

Dodge

frostie500 wrote: »

Personally, even as an Eagles fan, I would hate if Vick's "redemption" is taken into account. Players like Brady deserve better than to have the fact that they didnt break the law and go to jail to be held against them

Its the way it is though. Brady and Manning are helped because of their celebrity. Vick's story keeps him in the spotlight and in voters minds.

Both are desrving IMO

One point that was mentioned above is wrong though. A superbowl win won't help anyone as the award is handed out before then

Peyton Manning

Stev_o wrote: »

Some great contribution there :rolleyes:

How many sacks has Brady received in the lead up to the Packers game? Suddenly Pats were going 3 and out after 3 and long.

He took the same number of sacks against the Packers as he did against both the Bears and the Jets, the two immediate games in the lead up to the Packers game.

themont85

In fairness the Pats line is far better than the Philly one, far better.

Peyton Manning

themont85 wrote: »

In fairness the Pats line is far better than the Philly one, far better.

I know that, but Stev_o seems to think that Brady peformed below par against the Packers because it's the first time he's seen that much pressure and taken that many sacks, when in reality it was the exact same as the Bears and Jets games, and their star pass rusher Clay Matthews was nullified for almost the entire game.

davyjose

It's definitely between Vick and Brady. Rivers is nowhere near the conversation -- MVP's don't scrape their team through a ragged season -- they grab it by the balls. Vick has been insane in leading the Eagles this year. And Brady has been astonishing. i don't know. Flip a coin tbh.

Hazys

Stev_o wrote: »

Some great contribution there :rolleyes:

How many sacks has Brady received in the lead up to the Packers game? Suddenly Pats were going 3 and out after 3 and long.

Easy ride...ffs Have you seen the quality of teams and defenses Brady has put up 30pts plus on?

Yes the Pats have a good oline but their stats are certainly helped by Brady having unbelievable pocket presence. BTW the Pats OLine has 3 starters on IR, which is unbelieveable.

Vick has much better receivers and running game...easy ride for him i'd say :rolleyes:


Brady is hands down MVP, considering the job he has down with the supporting cast playing with him (only two 1st round picks in Offense with a lot of later round picks and FAs), great TD to INT ratio, high QB rating, unbelievable play in the elements, wins against top defenses, multiple perfect games, and so on against one of the strongest schedules in the NFL.

Vick has been very good but this season Brady is on another level.

Lirange

This was a good article re: Vick vs. Brady for MVP

davyjose

Hazys wrote: »

Brady is hands down MVP, considering the job he has down with the supporting cast playing with him (only two 1st round picks in Offense with a lot of later round picks and FAs), great TD to INT ratio, high QB rating, unbelievable play in the elements, wins against top defenses, multiple perfect games, and so on against one of the strongest schedules in the NFL.

Vick has been very good but this season Brady is on another level.

No offense, but your argument is somewhat skewed, IMO, by the fact that you are a Pats fan. Vick has been incredible this year Hazys, don't downplay it.
Nobody on here would argue if Brady won the award -- he's been incredible too. But I daresay only the Pats fans would complain if Vick won it.

frostie500

Hazys wrote: »

Brady is hands down MVP, considering the job he has down with the supporting cast playing with him (only two 1st round picks in Offense with a lot of later round picks and FAs), great TD to INT ratio, high QB rating, unbelievable play in the elements, wins against top defenses, multiple perfect games, and so on against one of the strongest schedules in the NFL.

Vick has been very good but this season Brady is on another level.

I don't think its fair to say that Brady is working with less talent. I say this mainly because the vast majority of football fans all know that Patriots have consistently been the best talent evaluators in the NFL(look at all the low round picks and FA who succeed with the team) so while the players may have been drafted lower they were deemed good fits for the NE scheme.

It's crazy to say that Brady is operating on "a different level to Vick," both players are playing at a crazy level right now, head and shoulders above anyone else in the league right now. Statistically both players are very similar this season, Vick is better in a few categories, Brady in others. This is a very close run thing and, to my mind, the only thing that is holding Vick back from winning it is that he didnt start four games.

You say that Brady has had "multiple perfect games" but in the last five games Vick has played arguably the greatest game ever by a QB against the Redskins and orchastrated one of the greatest comeback wins of all time against the Giants so I'd say that Vick has also had his fair share of perfection this year

Peyton Manning

frostie500 wrote: »

Vick has played arguably the greatest game ever by a QB against the Redskins

Serious?

frostie500

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Serious?

I meant to have "arguably one of the best games" but the point remains that statistically that game was an absolute monster. Against the Skins it looked like men against boys with Vick able to make any and every play he wanted to. The point was being made to illustrate that Vick has played outstanding in certain games this year, just like Brady has, and not to get into a debate on the greatest performances by a player of all time