Would you take a Hit from a Non Airsoft Projectile?

War Machine 539

Right, dont laugh, but lately I have been in a rather odd train of thought with Airsoft! What with movies such as the Expendables, Rambo and basically any action heavy movies, Guns arent ALWAYS the primary weapon of choice . . . . . . I have been thinking do AEGs and Pistols have to be your only weapon? Why not Throwing Knives? Why not an Archery Bow? Obviously these would be toned down from there normal deadliness, would be HIGHLY impractical, but I like theatrics and as the Dark Knight says '' Theatricality and deception are powerful agents "

So my question would you take a hit from a throwing knife? Or a Nerf tipped arrow? Or any other strange weapon?

P.S. there is a line folks, Im not talking about throwing a stick at someone!

evilrobotshane

You bet - anybody manages to nail you with something like that, you've earned a hit. Throwing knives (and axes and bricks and hubcaps), bows, and crossbows are all well-established items for LARPs and are reasonably safe, if a bit crap.

War Machine 539

Sweet, I have been looking at Modifying an Archery bow and Nerfing it down a bit! Main reason if for silence . . . . . Still trying to Iron out how to weight a throwing knife! Cheers for the feedback Shane!

J.D.R

A throwing knife could be very dodgy, as, clearly, there is no consistency in power, so while one person could throw it safely, and over active team mate may not, and could conceivably do some damage.

But, I would love to go up against a team full of scaled down archers, but it would be difficult to get the right balance between range, accuracy, and power to make them safe.

But, if someone shoots me with an arrow, I will happily take the hit. If someone pelts a rubber knife at my face, taking the hit might not be the first thing to come to mind

Inari

Whether or not someone would take the hit is only half the issue. Personally I would, as it is an earned hit. I like the additional element of play.

However the main issue would be whether or not:
A) You would be allowed to use said devices on an airsoft site
The site's insurance would cover the use of said devices
And
C) Whether the people playing would consent to the use of those devices

On your average airsoft site, people have consented to being hit with 6mm plastic BBs fired at no more than 1j. So it is worth considering, yes. But your best bet is to talk with the site owners and get their perspectives

War Machine 539

I would love to get site owners input on this, any reading please let me know! For the knives I have been looking at Foam, yet weighted LARP knives, so I doubt, seriously that injurie would occur, the bow Im looking at is a full scale Archers bow - Similar vein to Jessica Beal's in Blade -And I have sourced specific safe arrows for it!

Agree that safety and consistency of force could be an issue with the bow, the knives Im not sure! Foam to hit a Mesh visor, I would say you came away smiling!

TNTQ

Already have my foam Tactical Tomahawk made - love it

Chuck the Buck

Been talked about before here.

To allow a rule like this not only opens the flood gates to a whole world of mupperty (sadly airsofters seem to be the lowest common denominator when it comes to thinking of the consequences of their actions) it also would end up being down right dangerous when Jonny decides his M16 stock is the perfect response to something pointy being flung at his face.


Anyway last time I checked we play airsoft a non-contact sport and not 'I am ye Knight of old whom battle with dragons for yonder fair maiden's honour'.

J.D.R

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

Anyway last time I checked we play airsoft a non-contact sport and not 'I am ye Knight of old whom battle with dragons for yonder fair maiden's honour'.

It has also been discussed that airsoft as an entitiy is different to each player, some use it as a bit of craic, some use it as a real life simulation, some use it as a form of emulation to real world.

So, if someone would like to extend the parameters of getting a kill, which you could technically use the bang and knife kill as an example, this will just be another way of playing the game

War Machine 539

[QUOTE=

Anyway last time I checked we play airsoft a non-contact sport and not 'I am ye Knight of old whom battle with dragons for yonder fair maiden's honour'.[/QUOTE]

Im not talking about longswords, and flanged maces, more practical tactical stuff . . . . . . an archery bow, can and has been used before to kill . . . . . . Im talking about a modern one, No ''Ye Olde'' stuff, theres LARPs for that!
Its an added dimension to a sport that can be quite limited in variety . . . . . . lot of real world weapons still arent available, whereas the market we have is flooded with countless M4 variants!

Also I did state there is a line of acceptability, Im not talking about using the butt of an M4 to smash someones head in. Well its not really non contact also . . . . . . Tell me that when someone with a Stubby Killer with a bowmag gets trigger happy 2 feet away from you!
:P

Chuck the Buck

You want to use an actual bow and arrow or a one of those Nerf gun ones (not an actual arrow with a Nerf ball/dart stuck on the end?)?

CpcRc

I think that the idea of an arrow with a "safe" tip is a good enough idea and sounds interesting. It's just another form of projectile and will give a stelthy aspect to someone's game.

Of course you have to be certain that it is absolutely safe and that no one can get injured by it. I'd accept a hit from a properly designed projectile but obviously if people are going to think that this means that they can start flinging around crappy homemade blocks of styrofoam or foam then this won't be a great addition to airsoft.

It raises an idea of more variety definitely but will have to have standards put in place. People need to know that it is a proper part of your airsoft arsenal and not you simply throwing stuff at them. There should be no problem with people taking hits then.

And if people still won't take hits and fire at you full auto afterwards they probably are the people who don't take hits anyway.

Good idea, but needs a lot of planning if to be pulled off properly.

War Machine 539

Yes a proper archery Bow! I agree that regulations of somekind need to be put in place! I want to do this right, If it works should be cool!

evilrobotshane

As regards stealth, the shot might be quiet but yelling "HIT!" won't be. You'd want to institute a rule that an arrow hit uses the same rules as a knife kill.

LARPers who use arrows are pretty paranoid of them being stepped on and broken, by the way, I gather they're fairly pricey. That's something to watch out for so - I guess you'd want to be advancing in the direction of your shot, so you can pick it up again as soon as possible.

Chuck the Buck

CpcRc wrote: »

I think that the idea of an arrow with a "safe" tip is a good enough idea and sounds interesting. It's just another form of projectile and will give a stelthy aspect to someone's game.

Whats a safe tip, one of those rubber blunts that people use for reenactment? You know, the ones that aren't really safe to use to hit people? Will you're cheap mesh face mask/glasses/goggles hold up to a direct hit? Will my ESS goggles hold up? Hell would your skull hold up intact to a direct hit?

So we pop a nerf ball on the end, what happens when the arrow's shaft goes through it and into the poor sap on the receiving end?

What will the sites insurer think about it?

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Yes a proper archery Bow! I agree that regulations of somekind need to be put in place! I want to do this right, If it works should be cool!

Some questions for you:

What draw weight?
Have you ever tried archery?
Are you insured as an archer?
Are you a member of a club or one of the governing bodies?
Will little Jonny's Mummy and Daddy (or the Cops, DPP, the Judge, or Joe Duffy) be happy that you've killed or maimed their pride and joy?
Who's going to regulate it?
Will a site's waver/insurance cover the use of a deadly weapon by some random sleeve chewing muppet?

Airsoft Reloded

When we first opened we were planning on getting in 40 fake throwing knives but the IAA of the day pointed out that some parents mite not like the image of their child getting grabbed by the head and a fake knife ran across the throat (Thats what knife kills would become if you had a knife to use) so we didn't bother and perhaps they're right about it?

Chuck the Buck

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

parents mite not like the image of their child getting grabbed by the head and a fake knife ran across the throat (Thats what knife kills would become if you had a knife to use)

QFT

Airsoft Reloded

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

QFT

???

Chuck the Buck

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

???

QFT = Quoted for truth

Personally I believe it was a very good decision on your part, and has probably saved yourself a lot of grief.

TheDoc

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

???

Quoted for truth

Airsoft Reloded

I think so too, twud have been cool though.

War Machine 539

My archery skill is limited, I have done it and I dabble in it somewhat, I have started a thread asking the Archery guys wether they think it possible, so far its not looking good, the arrows I have sourced are shatter proof, and are clearly given with safe paramaters of use, to which of course I plan to adhere to.

If I was to use this equipment, It would be modified in such a way that harm will be avoided and possible injury brought done as low as possible, I cant say to nil because Even AEGs are not 100% safe.

With due respect to you Buck,Im not '' Sleeve chewing muppet'' I have some idea of what I am doing, I intend copious experiment to take place on this and I plan to make this work, BUT NOT AT THE PRICE OF SAFETY.

Also with regard to children running around with Foam knives, I think the Guns which are essentially 1:1 firearm replicas, would be a TINY bit more worrying, dont you?

Stone.cold

War Machine 539 wrote: »

My archery skill is limited, I have done it and I dabble in it somewhat, I have started a thread asking the Archery guys wether they think it possible, so far its not looking good, the arrows I have sourced are shatter proof, and are clearly given with safe paramaters of use, to which of course I plan to adhere to.

If I was to use this equipment, It would be modified in such a way that harm will be avoided and possible injury brought done as low as possible, I cant say to nil because Even AEGs are not 100% safe.

With due respect to you Buck,Im not '' Sleeve chewing muppet'' I have some idea of what I am doing, I intend copious experiment to take place on this and I plan to make this work, BUT NOT AT THE PRICE OF SAFETY.

Also with regard to children running around with Foam knives, I think the Guns which are essentially 1:1 firearm replicas, would be a TINY bit more worrying, dont you?

I can honestly say not a chance in hell I would let anyone walk out on to the field carrying anything even remotely like what your suggesting. be it a bow, axe, long sword or ball and chain made out of sponge. and I certainly would not agree to one been used in a game I was taking part in.

Stercus Accidit

Also with regard to children running around with Foam knives, I think the Guns which are essentially 1:1 firearm replicas, would be a TINY bit more worrying, dont you?

They dont be jabbing at each other with the replica guns though, this was discussed before with say rubber knives, if you go to jab someone with it its going to hurt, and the idea was that a hand on the shoulder was sufficient to avoid the muppet with restraint issues and a toy knife.

I don't think a proper arrow is appropriate for airsoft, with a soft tip or not, the tip could break off in game or be damaged and then you have a 4mm diameter tip of cracked carbon fibre flying at someone.

IMO its not worth it, I certainly don't think its suitable for regular skirmishes anyway.

Chuck the Buck

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Also with regard to children running around with Foam knives, I think the Guns which are essentially 1:1 firearm replicas, would be a TINY bit more worrying, dont you?

I'm not talking about knives (foam or other wise) I was asking you about your bow and arrow idea. You mangle someone with your bow and arrow and what happens you, the poor sap on the receiving end and both sports?

From the Archery Forum:

War Machine 539 wrote: »

I have found some very specific arrows, But I would be firing them at armored targets . . . . . . . One the velocity was under 328 FPS with a rounded arrow - Like a fishing float - on top I think it would be relativeley safe . . . . . . would it not? The arrows are shatter proof and I would really be going for shots from a good distance . . . . . 60-80 metres plus!

I can't remember what an average arrow weighs but say its 15 grams, at 328fps thats almost 75J by my calculations. You think thats 'safe'?

Joule calculator here.

Airsoft Reloded

No need for the aggression lads, I think the idea is cool if you could be sure that noone would hurl something at someone causing injury but you can't.

Unfortunately you couldn't do it, though again it would be fun and add a bit more to the knife kill.

flashinbluelite

love the idea of tomahawks and crossbows and arrows and all the other pieces of equipment available in Call of Duty :cool:

BUT......

when is the last time you went to a game where everyone, all day didnt complain about some sort of gun hotness or cheating??
I dont remember.....

just asking for more on field complaining IMO...
But i do love the idea, will be following this thread closely..... NERF FTW

StevieGriff

War Machine, sorry to say it and I don't mean to be abusive but you are an absolute moron if you think its safe to use an Archery Bow on a human being.

Blunted tip or not, even the most common low poundage bow you
could pick up in an outdoors shop far exceeds the Joule limit and any site owner with a even shred of common sense should and will tell you to put it back in the car or leave.

I seriously suggest you just drop the idea as its dangerous, unbeleivably moronic and completely inconsiderate towards the sport and your fellow Airsofters.

If you want to shoot a bow, go to a Archery club..

evilrobotshane

There's nothing unusual about playing with this type of replica weapon, and it's been going on in Ireland much longer than airsoft has. From my very limited experience seeing LARP bows being used, they're pretty weak and you'd be looking at, I'd guess, a 20m range, tops. I don't know what the rules they use in LARP are for safety, but naturally they have much the same concerns and standards we do, so the work has been done. I can dig up a LARPer or two and get answers if anybody has any specific questions.

J.D.R

StevieGriff wrote: »

Blunted tip or not, even the most common low poundage bow you
could pick up in an outdoors shop far exceeds the Joule limit and any site owner with a even shred of common sense should and will tell you to put it back in the car or leave.

The one joule law does not have to do with speed, it has to do with energy.

A bow can theoretically fire at 500fps and still be under the 1 joule limit.

If I can remember correctly Force=Mass x acceleration

For airsoft 1 joule = 328fps x .2g (Not as good a memory as I thought, see post on next page)

For a foam bow and arrow, it would be something different.

Not saying this makes it completely and entirely safe, but as this is currently theoretical, talk of it already exceeding the joule rating might be a bit hasty

Airsoft Reloded

Calling him "an absolute moron" is a bit much no, he just voiced an idea. Rebuke it if you disagree but theres no call for insults dude

Chuck the Buck

flashinbluelite wrote: »

love the idea of tomahawks and crossbows and arrows and all the other pieces of equipment available in Call of Duty

If I remember correctly you need a license for a crossbow over here (not sure if its based on power or just the fact that its a crossbow) so that would be a non runner anyway.


@Evilrobotshane:

Shane you know if the use of LARP bows is regulated over here (by a governing body or something) like in other countries or can any Joe Soap turn up at an event and use whatever bow he's brought with him? Do they need training/have to pass a test to say that they're safe and not a 'muppet' for want of a better word (and no I'm not aiming that comment at anyone)?

evilrobotshane

They do a pre-game inspection very similar to the way we structure chrono tests, on all LARP weapons (looking for different problems, obviously, depending on the type of weapon) (sorry for use of the word "weapon" by the way but it's how LARPers refer to them so it's pretty much what they're called). I'll see what I can find out about the safety rules for bows.

By the way, I should point out that a month ago I was at a game where I had an airsoft slingbacker and was beside someone with a LARP bow when we both shot at the same target (for repeatedly failing to answer a challenge - he turned out to be a friendly, but that learned him). What's being discussed here isn't a complete hypothesis, it's perfectly doable, and has already happened to some extent.

StevieGriff

J.D.R wrote: »

The one joule law does not have to do with speed, it has to do with energy.

A bow can theoretically fire at 500fps and still be under the 1 joule limit.

If I can remember correctly Force=Mass x acceleration

For airsoft 1 joule = 328fps x .2g

For a foam bow and arrow, it would be something different.

Not saying this makes it completely and entirely safe, but as this is currently theoretical, talk of it already exceeding the joule rating might be a bit hasty

A 30lb bow can output about 25 joules.. He's talking about Archery equipment not foam, if he wants to use a foam bow and arrow thats fine, can't do any damaged with a sticky cup arrow from a pound shop.

You'd be terrified of the injuries that can occur from im proper use of a bow, more than 75% of the injuries I've see weren't even accidents where someone was physically hit, they were from improper use and a lack of concern for safety.

And yes I was a little mean to the dude and I'm sorry for that but his little plan of using an Archery bow on human beings absolutely bewilders me. Even a kiddies 10lb bow with blunted arrows will at the very least damage peoples equipment (Googles..ect)

War Machine 539

Although I do take umbridge at being refered to as an absolute moron, I do take on board what your saying, however if you took time to actually read what I am saying and not try to ram your opinion down our throats, it might be more enlightening.

I am talking about MODIFYING an existing archery bow, tuning down the draw, changing the tautness of the string and using SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED ARROWS suitable for LARP etc to shoot, whatever it takes to make it safe and feasible. If I was a ''an absolute moron'' I would have just done this without gathering the opinions and information to make it feasible and safe. I want to do this but will drop it if safety cant be assured.

Thanks a lot on this lads seriously! - Despite the abuse -

On the crossbow issue, as far as I know the controls are the same on a crossbow as on a handgun, due to the fact that it can be concealed while loaded. Not 100% on that mind you!

Stonecold can I ask if your a site runner? Can you explain reasoning etc if so! Not questioning you or being smart Im purely interested in the practicalities, insurance gaps etc. Also what site if you run one?

Again all feedback is highly appreciated!

War Machine 539

I purely want the look of a tactical bow, I dont want to kill anyone! I will be nerfing the absolute hell out of it . . . . . . similar to tuning AEGs down with spring changes to meet our limits! Lads, despite the bewilderment, it makes sense! It can be done Im sure! Lads I FULLY UNDERSTAND A NON MODIFIED BOW CAN CAUSE HORRIFIC INJURY. Chuck, I am completely validating that point. Safety is my primary concern.

Puding

I'm sorry but personaly would not play at an event/site with these rules, not for safety but for realism I try and stay away from the COD effect

evilrobotshane

I asked a LARPer of my acquaintance and he says that bow safety regulations are up to the individual game organisers (equivalent to site-by-site in airsoft). The system he plays mostly limits the draw to 30 lbs (it's English) and there's rules on amount and type of padding on the arrows.

Before being allowed to use a bow, you have to take and pass an approximately half-hour training course with an instructor certified by the organisers. This details the types of shots you're allowed take and that sort of thing - seems analogous to how some British airsoft sites do higher-powered sniper rifles with minimum engagement distances. You get a little card to clear you to use it, and it gets a black mark if you break the bow rules - 3 marks and it's revoked.

There don't seem to be any legal issues with owning or importing this stuff - a LARPing bow-using Garda didn't ever mention anything to them, anyway.

I remember overhearing this the other day by the way, LARP crossbows technically are catapults or something rather than crossbows, because crossbows have a taut string and use the arms or whatever they're called for power, but LARP ones have inflexible arms and a bungee string which does the launching. So there.

Stercus Accidit

J.D.R wrote: »

The one joule law does not have to do with speed, it has to do with energy.

A bow can theoretically fire at 500fps and still be under the 1 joule limit.

If I can remember correctly Force=Mass x acceleration

For airsoft 1 joule = 328fps x .2g

For a foam bow and arrow, it would be something different.

Not saying this makes it completely and entirely safe, but as this is currently theoretical, talk of it already exceeding the joule rating might be a bit hasty

Just want to point out you have your formulae mixed up, a joule is a measure of energy, and energy is equal to half the mass times the velocity squared, and uses compatible metric units, fps is an obsolete unit but is the commonly know one, metres per second are used to calculate a joule, 328 fps being 100m/s.

The energy of a projectile fired at a consistent speed is directly proportional to its weight, so an arrow is not going to be sub 1 joule at any useable speed.

Chuck the Buck

Cheers for the reply Shane, I'd be interested to hear do the players have to wear any specific protective gear or is their fake armour
(if their wearing any) deemed to be ok and is there any minimum engagement distance?

@ War Machine:

What you talking about doing is fiddling with what ultimately is a lethal weapon in the wrong hands and converting it into a toy for want of a better word. I would imagine that it wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, or very safe for that matter.

If you're dropping the power of you're bow I assume you are going to change the limbs vs chopping bits off it or making the string loose? And if its tactical you're after would you be using a compound bow (the ones with the cams on the end of the limbs) you're going to use, would I be correct?

sliabh

J.D.R wrote: »

The one joule law does not have to do with speed, it has to do with energy.

A bow can theoretically fire at 500fps and still be under the 1 joule limit.

If I can remember correctly Force=Mass x acceleration

For airsoft 1 joule = 328fps x .2g

For a foam bow and arrow, it would be something different.

*sigh* mixing SI and Imperial units makes baby Jesus cry. So first stick to a consistent set of units, 328fps = 100m/s

Kinetic energy is = 0.5 x mass x velocity x velocity

1 joule = (0.5 x 0.2 x 100 x 100)/1000
Divide by 1000 as the Joule is based on Kilograms of mass not grams.

To fire at 500fps (153m/s) and still be under 1J, the projectile mass would have to be 0.085g, and I doubt you will find an arrow anywhere that light.

This is a little academic though as the 1J limit is specified in law for projectiles coming from a barrel. Above 1J it's a firearm and as well as needing a licence to have it, shooting someone with it would be assault (disclaimer IANAL).

This wouldn't be the case for an arrow, but you would probably want to talk to a real legal person for advice on when shooting someone with a bow goes from being fun to a chargable offence.

---

My view on the whole subject is that while in principle I am okay at being shot at by other "safe" objects, in practice the risk from muppets and numpties means I would object to it. I barely trust people with AEGs as it is. With airsoft guns there is standard (1J) and a mechanism in place to ensure they are safe (chronoing), anything else you introduce to a site would need to have a similar mechanism.

evilrobotshane

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

Cheers for the reply Shane, I'd be interested to hear do the players have to wear any specific protective gear or is their fake armour
(if their wearing any) deemed to be ok and is there any minimum engagement distance?

They don't have to wear any protection, the arrows are safe enough by themselves. There's no strict minimum engagement distance but there seems to be something similar to paintball's bang rule. Also, because the power is variable due to the nature of a bow, they can give it minimal welly for close-in shots. However, if being charged they're expected to get the bow out of the way because that could be risky.

Raphael

evilrobotshane wrote: »

there's rules on amount and type of padding on the arrows.

Having just wandered into an interesting looking thread, and knowing this stuff, the head is 2 inches in diameter, and has 2 and a half inches of foam on the end.

Edit: Found a Helpful Diagram(TM)

CpcRc

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

Whats a safe tip, one of those rubber blunts that people use for reenactment? You know, the ones that aren't really safe to use to hit people? Will you're cheap mesh face mask/glasses/goggles hold up to a direct hit? Will my ESS goggles hold up? Hell would your skull hold up intact to a direct hit?

No not a blunt tip, they are way too dangerous. I have my own archery set and I'd never even think of using one of those because they are much too dangerous. What I was saying was if there was an arrow made with a tip that would not be strong enough to hurt someone, not even accidentally in any conditions. One that wouldn't damage the safety equipment also. I'm talking about what would have to be made not what exists, to my knowledge anyway.

Sorry if it sounded like a blunt arrow, because they are not safe at all.

NakedDex

If anyone hit me with an arrow in a game I'd quite simply disregard it and return fire. Apart from the blatantly obvious safety issues, I'm there to play a military simulation skirmish, not sodding cowboys and Indians (sorry Doc, no cowboy loadout).
If I saw someone with a bow in a skirmish, I don't think I'd be able to control my laughter at the guy. If they threw a knife at me, I don't think I'd be able to control my temper.

On a further note, airsoft is difficult enough to sell to the PC brigade without having to attempt to justify "simulated throat slitting" too. I can just imagine that in the papers...

War Machine 539

I have to laugh with the throat slitting thing . . . . . . there are guys who dress as terrorist\taliban\opfor fighters, whatever term floats your boat . . . . . . doesnt get into the papers. I doubt rubber knives do . . . . . and for the record I have seen many kits with fake knives attached to them.

How would throat slitting look in the papers . . . . . . . . as opposed to grown men parading around in Balaclavas, full face Shemaghs armed to the teeth. Simulating a kill with a knife is no different than simulating it with an AEG . . . . . . . is the Knife not classy enough?

For such a . . . . . . rough and ready hobby some of you seem terrified of being hit with a piece of foam . . . . . as opposed to a BB flying at 328 FPS.

ARROWS HAVE FOAM HEADS. Clarification. Keep up the feedback, Its interesting!

Puding

War Machine 539 wrote: »

I have to laugh with the throat slitting thing . . . . . . there are guys who dress as terrorist\taliban\opfor fighters, whatever term floats your boat . . . . . . doesnt get into the papers. I doubt rubber knives do . . . . . and for the record I have seen many kits with fake knives attached to them.

How would throat slitting look in the papers . . . . . . . . as opposed to grown men parading around in Balaclavas, full face Shemaghs armed to the teeth. Simulating a kill with a knife is no different than simulating it with an AEG . . . . . . . is the Knife not classy enough?

For such a . . . . . . rough and ready hobby some of you seem terrified of being hit with a piece of foam . . . . . as opposed to a BB flying at 328 FPS.

ARROWS HAVE FOAM HEADS. Clarification. Keep up the feedback, Its interesting!

yes we dress as terrorist or us army at times for example, but in the end it comes down to context and know where that line is , you may create a terrorist impression for an event but you do not them go and make a fake jihad video or take pictures and post it on line

there is a world of difference between simulation of slitting someones throat and shooting someone with an aeg, airsoft is actually a non contact sport you introduce a act like that and you fundamentally change that, if you wanted to simulate cutting someones throat you would need restrain them as they would clearly try and move, and tbh you do not want to go down that road ( and it would just create even more aggression and the chance of a physical altercation )

as i said there is a line, we play a simulation of combat but it is important to remember its a simulation both both the purpose of respecting those that do put there lives on the line and for common sense, there are some things that should not be in the rule set and should be left out, just because you can simulate everything does not mean you do

War Machine 539

Okay, I think my bad on this one . . . . . . Im not advocating performing the Physical act of simulating a knife kill . . . . . Im talking about throwing knives at people, or nerfed arrows, Lads I dont think Im getting my point across here, a hand on the back or a tap with the knife is fine, but throwing it, or a foam Tomahawk or any other ranged replica weapon could also constitute a kill, without contact. I apologise If I seem incoherent, Im trying to respond to all points made!

In the current world political climate, dressing as a terrorist may offend some . . . . . the line is different for all.

I agree . . . . slitting someones throat looks bad for the sport, however the fact can not be changed that there are violent elements to this sport. We use replica weapons for dogs sake.

As for the people putting their lives on the line, I have friends in the defense forces, No one asked them to do it. I respect them for doing it, but no more than I respect the bin man, teacher. They chose that profession knowing full well there lives are on the line. Tell that to the video game producers, gun manufacturers, indeed Airsoft manufacturers!

Leftyflip

They're not weapons, the sport isn't violent, etc, etc...

War Machine 539

Leftyflip wrote: »

They're not weapons, the sport isn't violent, etc, etc...

Point in case. Again context and common sense, Thank you lefty!

Leftyflip

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Point in case. Again context and common sense, Thank you lefty!

Talking bout AEGs and airsoft devices, not bows and arrows.